Topic: Spurs: fucking useless

[Inpeace]

Spurs have sold Paulinho to Chinese club Guangzhou for £9.9m.   A loss of over £7m on what they paid for him just 2 years ago, I though that Daniel Levy was shrewd businessman??

He got 10m for something that is worth about 2m shrewd in my mind.

Thought he would be good based on reports but he was a bit of a coward and glad to see him leave

[ashleyrose-66]

If he is worth about £2m it's even more staggering he paid £17m for him in the first place!

He is player who had struggled to make an impact in Lithuania on loan a few years before Spurs came in for him.  But because he scored against England in a meaningless friendly, people thought he was the next Frank Lampard.

It's like us saying we did brilliantly selling Carroll to West Ham for £18m, and totally ignoring we paid £35m for him in the first place.

[Inpeace]

If he is worth about £2m it's even more staggering he paid £17m for him in the first place!

He is player who had struggled to make an impact in Lithuania on loan a few years before Spurs came in for him.  But because he scored against England in a meaningless friendly, people thought he was the next Frank Lampard.

It's like us saying we did brilliantly selling Carroll to West Ham for £18m, and totally ignoring we paid £35m for him in the first place.

Money was spent, he doesn't decide on players just negotiates prices. 10m is a cracking price

Bentley for 16m seems worse in hindsight.

[HighSix]

Going by what all the experts said Paulinho was bought at a fair price & after a really poor couple of years sold at a great price. He probably joined the club at the wrong time with all the changes in players & managers.

[ashleyrose-66]

Amazing!  A £7m loss on a player is deemed a decent outcome!

Regardless of what people thought of him, regardless of whether £17m seemed a fair price - it is staggering to see people lauding Daniel Levy for getting as much as £10m for a player he paid £17m for less than 2 years ago!

Fact remains, Levy signed off a (then) club record £17m deal for a player who had limited experience in European football, and then sold him just under 2 years later at a loss of just over £7m.

And people are saying he did well?     

[Inpeace]

He has loads of failures when buying players, don't think any one thinks he is shrewd due to buying, we normally have to pay top dollar and take a risk.

People do take notice of how much he seems to get for players and this is where he got his reputation.

In this case on what I have seen 10m is a mugging.

[MagicHat]

Bad buy with hindsight but Levy did great in getting that price to sell on.

[Drinks Sangria]

Bad buy with hindsight but Levy did great in getting that price to sell on.

Agreed. I thought he'd be a great signing and he was utterly shit.

If Lamela were to be sold, they'd lose a lot more on him. A shell of the player we saw in Roma in 2013. It's a shame because honestly there's a world class footballer waiting to get out. He's shown flashes but it seems even Pochettino doesn't fully trust him.

[NorthamptonKopite]

Swear Paulinho looked decent for spurs at one point or another, no?

[Notfromaroundhere]

Swear Paulinho looked decent for spurs at one point or another, no?

Yep. Thought he started well for them. I hadn't heard of him before he signed for them, and thought he looked like a very good player. Also played well for Brazil. Not sure what happened to him.

[Xxavi]

Agreed. I thought he'd be a great signing and he was utterly shit.

If Lamela were to be sold, they'd lose a lot more on him. A shell of the player we saw in Roma in 2013. It's a shame because honestly there's a world class footballer waiting to get out. He's shown flashes but it seems even Pochettino doesn't fully trust him.

World class? Talk about exaggeration.

He had a decent season for Roma, who were not even top 2 team in Italy at the time. How easy is it to be labeled world class for some? A player like Bacca, who is not world class at all, had 2 great seasons back to back, winning Europa League titles. Nobody would bother even thinking if he is world class (and rightly so). Lamela, in comparison, has done nothing comparable to Bacca.

Far from world class.

[zanwalk]

World class? Talk about exaggeration.

He had a decent season for Roma, who were not even top 2 team in Italy at the time. How easy is it to be labeled world class for some? A player like Bacca, who is not world class at all, had 2 great seasons back to back, winning Europa League titles. Nobody would bother even thinking if he is world class (and rightly so). Lamela, in comparison, has done nothing comparable to Bacca.

Far from world class.

Agreed re Lamela. The Paulhino deal is generally considered to be good business by Spurs fans, he never really got to grips with the hurly burly of the PL, not a bad player though.

[kaz1983]

If he is worth about £2m it's even more staggering he paid £17m for him in the first place!

He is player who had struggled to make an impact in Lithuania on loan a few years before Spurs came in for him.  But because he scored against England in a meaningless friendly, people thought he was the next Frank Lampard.

It's like us saying we did brilliantly selling Carroll to West Ham for £18m, and totally ignoring we paid £35m for him in the first place.

We did.

[BigMarcs]

World class? Talk about exaggeration.

Read the post. Potential. He said POTENTIAL to be world class, and he's not wrong.

[Ken-Obi]

All players have the potential to be world class. Whether they do it or not it's an entirely different thing altogether. Imagine someone with Messi's potential but never had the attitude to turn it into actual production - Mignolet would surpass him in ball distribution.

[ashleyrose-66]

We did.

Doesn't excuse the fact we took a £17m hit on the deal.   

My point is, West Ham paid what Carroll was probably worth.   We paid double that.
Same with Paulinho at Spurs.  They sold him for what his true value was, around £10m, but paid far more than that.

Every club has good and bad deals, and Spurs are no exception - it just amazes me that Daniel Levy is seen to be some brilliant negotiator in the eyes of the press when you consider for every penny he may squeeze out of a club when selling a player, he has massively over-spent on others!

[Drinks Sangria]

Read the post. Potential. He said POTENTIAL to be world class, and he's not wrong.

World class? Talk about exaggeration.

He had a decent season for Roma, who were not even top 2 team in Italy at the time. How easy is it to be labeled world class for some? A player like Bacca, who is not world class at all, had 2 great seasons back to back, winning Europa League titles. Nobody would bother even thinking if he is world class (and rightly so). Lamela, in comparison, has done nothing comparable to Bacca.

Far from world class.

As has been said, I never said Lamela was World Class. Nothing he's done can suggest that. But his time at River and then Roma was promising enough, and there's clearly a lot of talent there. He has the potential to be considered in that bracket of footballers. He may have missed his window now, with two very important seasons of potential improvement effectively wasted. Bacca isn't world class, and neither is Lamela. I didn't say he was though. The potential was merely there. Whether it still is after treading water ages 21-23.

Aged 20, Lamela scored 15 goals in 30 appearances for Roma. At 20. That's far better than a 'decent' season, he was excellent and plenty on here, myself included, wanted us to be in for him. That's World Class potential in my eyes.

[rafathegaffa83]

He is player who had struggled to make an impact in Lithuania on loan a few years before Spurs came in for him.  But because he scored against England in a meaningless friendly, people thought he was the next Frank Lampard.

Vickery thought he was very good at the time and thought he'd transition well. He described him as an English-style midfielder. I seem to recall reading somewhere recently that Vickery now feels that what made him stand out in Brazil was unique, but was common place in Britain: the ability to have an all-around, box-to-box midfielder, whereas in Brazil the midfield roles are increasingly more compartmentalized and specialized.

"One possible explanation, then, is that Elias and Paulinho have stood out at home because in Brazil they are members of a rare species of all-rounders. Take them to Europe, where players of this type are more common, and their shine disappears"
http://www.espnfc.com/copa-libertadores/58/blog/post/2306252/brazilian-stars-eliaspaulinho-have-failed-in-transition-to-european-football

[MagicHat]

Doesn't excuse the fact we took a £17m hit on the deal.   

My point is, West Ham paid what Carroll was probably worth.   We paid double that.
Same with Paulinho at Spurs.  They sold him for what his true value was, around £10m, but paid far more than that.

Every club has good and bad deals, and Spurs are no exception - it just amazes me that Daniel Levy is seen to be some brilliant negotiator in the eyes of the press when you consider for every penny he may squeeze out of a club when selling a player, he has massively over-spent on others!

He is good at selling players on for high prices (though sometimes he goes overboard and means players get sold late on in window) but bad at buying.

[ashleyrose-66]

He is good at selling players on for high prices (though sometimes he goes overboard and means players get sold late on in window) but bad at buying.

Totally agree, which is why I find the whole press/media façade that he is such a shrewd businessman boring.

I read something the other day (associated with the Paulinho deal) that he should become Chancellor of the Exchequer as he could sort out the UK economy.  I know it was a tongue in cheek article, but for some reason, it annoys me that the press/media make him out to be some sort of brilliant businessman. 

He is not special, he is not a shrewd businessman, he is a chairman who does some good deals, and some shite deals - just like the rest of them!!

[kaz1983]

Doesn't excuse the fact we took a £17m hit on the deal.   

If you take the risk of signing a player for largish fee and it doesn't work out, he turns out kinda shite. At least get a good fee when it comes to selling him that's all I'm saying. If you can get a great fee that's even better, regardless of if your taking a hit on the overall deal.

[ashleyrose-66]

If you take the risk of signing a player for largish fee and it doesn't work out, he turns out kinda shite. At least get a good fee when it comes to selling him that's all I'm saying. If you can get a great fee that's even better, regardless of if your taking a hit on the overall deal.

I don't disagree at all, but that probably accounts for about 50% of transfer deals at every single club doesn't it.  You buy some players who you later sell for less than you paid for, and some players you sell on at a profit. 
For some reason, Daniel Levy is hailed as a supreme businessman, and is called "shrewd", when he simply does what every other chairman does - He wins some, he loses some. 

I have no idea why it annoys me so much either! 

[Mamadou]

i think Pochettino is a very good manager...next season they are going to be even better

[Redman0151]

All players have the potential to be world class. Whether they do it or not it's an entirely different thing altogether. Imagine someone with Messi's potential but never had the attitude to turn it into actual production - Mignolet would surpass him in ball distribution.

That's wrong though, most players no matter how hard they try just don't have either the physical or mental ability to be world class. If Charlie Adam tried a bit harder he wouldn't be replacing Xavi at barca

[AFX]

It's clearly a good deal for Spurs. With hindsight they obviously should never have signed him but that's completely irrelevant now.

Every transfer is a gamble so therefore making mistakes is inevitable. Minimising the amount lost is pretty important unless you're City and big losses don't touch you. That's why FSG want young players. It's about managing the risk/reward.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

How can the media spin a £7m loss on a player into a "good deal", I don't remember our £5m or £6m loss on Robbie Keane being a "good deal", but Spurs being from London the media will sugar coat it any way they can.

[Ken-Obi]

That's wrong though, most players no matter how hard they try just don't have either the physical or mental ability to be world class. If Charlie Adam tried a bit harder he wouldn't be replacing Xavi at barca

Don't let Fordy see you post that.

[zanwalk]

How can the media spin a £7m loss on a player into a "good deal", I don't remember our £5m or £6m loss on Robbie Keane being a "good deal", but Spurs being from London the media will sugar coat it any way they can.

I don't think anyone believes the Paulinho deal was good business, but I think a lot of us were surprised that after two seasons the loss was 'only' £7m. Personally, I think we did well to get as much as we did for him, considering he never hit it off for Spurs, and many were fearing a sale price of much less.

If I remember correctly, Robbie Keane was only with you for one(?) season, and then was sold back to Spurs for a loss. It was also seen as a deal that was forced on Rafa, as it didn't appear as though he wanted him in the first place. Whether that is correct I don't know.

[rafathegaffa83]

They've sold Paulinho and now Holtby has gone back to Germany with HSV for £4.9m. Sounds like they are having a massive clearout from the past two years if the likes of Chiriches and Soldado join them.

[RedSince86]

How is Franco Baldini still their DoF.

[Drinks Sangria]

How is Franco Baldini still their DoF.

Even by our standards, their recruitment post-Bale has been utterly horrific. They've got a lop-sided squad and paid big-fees for players who've been awful and they're now looking to flog (Chiriches, Soldado, Paulinho). It's as bad as our worst under Comolli.

[Inpeace]

Looks like Capoue is gone now as well.

If I was going to give a defense, the players on the whole look like AVB players - solid units.

New manager / New ideas.

[b_joseph]

How can the media spin a £7m loss on a player into a "good deal", I don't remember our £5m or £6m loss on Robbie Keane being a "good deal", but Spurs being from London the media will sugar coat it any way they can.

We lost a shit ton on BIg Caz but it was a good deal because I dont think many expected us to get that much. Paulinho is average..to get that much for someone that middling is impressive.

They had a good run with transfers..ins and outs. But Modric and Bale has halted their progress.

[rafathegaffa83]

Looks like Capoue is gone now as well.

To Watford no less by the sound of it. Remember loads of the FM types in the transfer forum and the like moaning about him joining Spurs at the time. Really poor signing. I wonder how badly Spurs need to sell to buy this window

[Chris~]

To Watford no less by the sound of it. Remember loads of the FM types in the transfer forum and the like moaning about him joining Spurs at the time. Really poor signing. I wonder how badly Spurs need to sell to buy this window

I don't think they need to they just want to get rid of the players who Pocchetino clearly doesn't rate.

[Crosby Nick]

To Watford no less by the sound of it. Remember loads of the FM types in the transfer forum and the like moaning about him joining Spurs at the time. Really poor signing. I wonder how badly Spurs need to sell to buy this window

Was he always bad for them or did having to play CB against a rampant Suarez destroy his confidence?

[Drinks Sangria]

Was he always bad for them or did having to play CB against a rampant Suarez destroy his confidence?

He started okay, went through an inconsistent patch then just dropped off a cliff. I don't think he's a bad player, but he's quite similar to all their midfielders. Paulinho, Dembele, Bentaleb and Capoue were all quite similar. All strong all-rounders who don't really specialise in any area.

They're being linked to McCarthy at the Blueshite, and Austin. Austin is an interesting one because I'm not sure he's quite good enough for what they're aiming to do. Not a bad player, a sharp finisher, but what's the thought with him? He's quite similar to Kane, so is it a case of having a potential back-up who fits the game plan in the same way Kane does? They're being linked to Kramer too, who's a good player but I was under the impression he literally only just signed for Leverkusen after his loan spell?

None of the name's they're being linked to makes me think they're about to take a step-up as a team, or, in pettier terms, make me jealous, like I would've been had they signed the likes of Firmino.

[downtown]

^ We need to buy Kramer for the name alone.

I haven't bought a kit in 3 years, but if Kramer becomes available, then that's a no brainer.

[Drinks Sangria]

^ We need to buy Kramer for the name alone.

I haven't bought a kit in 3 years, but if Kramer becomes available, then that's a no brainer.

He would take us up several levels.

[clinical]

Swear Paulinho looked decent for spurs at one point or another, no?

First 4 games. Then it ended in tears