Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1824661 times)

Offline classycarra

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12120 on: September 28, 2017, 05:23:17 pm »
He's developing it and working on it in training to produce consistently rather than just being something he can do in the right moment instinctively.

Where'd you hear that?

Offline M7 Heckler

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12121 on: September 28, 2017, 09:21:56 pm »
Is this is a Gerrard skill? I vaguely remember him doing this a lot.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUMe-2m_VB8

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Offline Lastrador

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12122 on: September 28, 2017, 09:41:58 pm »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUMe-2m_VB8

Everything good is a gerrard skill!
The number 10 on that list is probably one of the best passes ever played and it's so incredible underrated. 

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12123 on: September 28, 2017, 10:26:30 pm »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUMe-2m_VB8

Everything good is a gerrard skill!
Memories. I remember that Bolton one. I think it's Benayoun that makes an in-to-out run to make the space Torres runs into. Remember someone doing a good analysis of that one on here.
Kuyt celebrating as he slides in to score?
How young is he for that Murphy goal? :D
That Torres dummy is Pele-esque. Miss him!
That Sturridge one is ridiculous though.

Yeah that looks very familiar now from Gerrard for both Murphy & Owen goals. I vaguely remember him doing it a lot for England too from that deeper midfield role similar to Hendo is playing now. Good to see skills like that are getting passed on from old to young in the same way there are shades of Coutinho in things Woodburn does. He needs to start doing that little studs rollout next :D
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Offline redmark

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12124 on: September 29, 2017, 10:25:10 am »
Lovely assists video. And the next one to come up was his top 20 goals. Ahhh.
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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12125 on: October 1, 2017, 06:30:49 pm »
Not often I lose my shit on here, but my god, Gini Wijnaldum is a waste of a shirt and it's like playing with 10 men. No idea how he lasted 90 minutes of doing his same old trotting around in positions where he can't receive the ball, avoiding space, avoiding tackles, taking ages on the ball. I'd hate to play alongside him because he never makes himself available. He's the biggest problem with our midfield for me, because he can't attack, defend, pass or anything. I've thought this for a while, but today was just the final straw for me because every time the attack needed support he was never there. The only reason he's still getting a look in is because he had 6 good games last season, at home against good teams. Oxlade-Chamberlain, Can, Milner, even Grujic ahead of him please.

Offline pyroparty

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12126 on: October 1, 2017, 06:32:11 pm »
Not often I lose my shit on here, but my god, Gini Wijnaldum is a waste of a shirt and it's like playing with 10 men. No idea how he lasted 90 minutes of doing his same old trotting around in positions where he can't receive the ball, avoiding space, avoiding tackles, taking ages on the ball. I'd hate to play alongside him because he never makes himself available. The biggest problem with our midfield for me, because he can't attack, defend, pass or anything. I've thought this for a while, but today was just the final straw for me because every time the attack needed support he was never there. The only reason he's still getting a look in is because he had 6 good games last season, at home against good teams. Oxlade-Chamberlain, Can, Milner, even Grujic ahead of him please.

He's totally pointless away from home, completely and utter waste of a shirt. It's a huge problem. How Oxlade is getting 5mins here and there while he's allowed to stink the joint out every week I'll never know. Alex showed more desire in 5 mins than Gini has all season.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12127 on: October 1, 2017, 06:34:19 pm »
Not often I lose my shit on here, but my god, Gini Wijnaldum is a waste of a shirt and it's like playing with 10 men. No idea how he lasted 90 minutes of doing his same old trotting around in positions where he can't receive the ball, avoiding space, avoiding tackles, taking ages on the ball. I'd hate to play alongside him because he never makes himself available. He's the biggest problem with our midfield for me, because he can't attack, defend, pass or anything. I've thought this for a while, but today was just the final straw for me because every time the attack needed support he was never there. The only reason he's still getting a look in is because he had 6 good games last season, at home against good teams. Oxlade-Chamberlain, Can, Milner, even Grujic ahead of him please.

I'd agree with this, but I'd also add Henderson was guilty of this as well. Too much pointing but he hardly made himself available for a pass. And when he did he almost always played it safe. Our midfielders aren't taking enough responsibility, on and off the ball. It's a large part as to why we look so poor.

Offline JD.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12128 on: October 1, 2017, 06:41:05 pm »
Coutinho is great.

The rest are mid table players really. Sooner Keita arrives the better.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12129 on: October 1, 2017, 06:46:24 pm »
We have a midfield on paper but not on the field. Total shambles.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12130 on: October 1, 2017, 06:47:45 pm »
wini again, didn't hear his name mentioned very much in that second half.  He's everywhere the ball isn't. 

Offline Geppvindh's

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12131 on: October 1, 2017, 06:48:59 pm »
One word - laborious.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12132 on: October 1, 2017, 06:49:51 pm »
wini again, didn't hear his name mentioned very much in that second half.  He's everywhere the ball isn't.
Rodgers was crucified for playing constantly playing Allen, that's nothing compared to Klopp's blind spot with Wijnaldum.
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Offline lessthanmatt

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12133 on: October 1, 2017, 06:49:54 pm »
Wijnaldum is a ghost.

I'd have Can, Oxlade-Chamberlain and maybe even look into non-first-team players before playing him so regularly
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Offline Haggis36

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12134 on: October 1, 2017, 06:57:17 pm »
It's a tough one. On paper, Gini doing absolutely nothing but doing nothing overtly wrong is probably preferable to Can running around like an absolute shambles and actively stinking the place out, but in reality who fucking knows. Neither of them are good enough for where we want to be, and it's alarming that it wasn't addressed at all in the summer. And that our only other option at this point is Milner.

Just play Oxlade-Chamberlain - he's not had the best start but he'll actually turn up and get involved, and he'll sure as shit put in considerably more effort than Can. At this point I doubt we could be much worse in there.

Said it before, but we'd do well to rip the midfield up and start again at the first available opportunity. Too many "decent" fairweather players who turn in 5-10 good performances a season but otherwise oscillate back and forth between average and mediocrity.

Offline BER

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12135 on: October 1, 2017, 06:58:41 pm »
Henderson again, constantly getting caught out of position.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12136 on: October 1, 2017, 07:03:09 pm »
I want to see a clip of the goal again just to see how little pressure shelvey was under to play that pass. Not 1 of out midfield closed him at all

Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12137 on: October 1, 2017, 07:04:18 pm »
Shelvey was better than two thirds of them.
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Offline Zlen

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12138 on: October 1, 2017, 07:05:55 pm »
Needs more Milner and less of these wannabes.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12139 on: October 1, 2017, 07:06:52 pm »
Henderson again, constantly getting caught out of position.
Henderson deserves questioning, but look who he's sharing the midfield with. He's overworked in there.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12140 on: October 1, 2017, 07:10:19 pm »
Henderson deserves questioning, but look who he's sharing the midfield with. He's overworked in there.

I agree anyone who has to share the MF with the invisible dutchman needs to be given some leeway
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Offline KiNki

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12141 on: October 1, 2017, 07:18:15 pm »
It's a tough one. On paper, Gini doing absolutely nothing but doing nothing overtly wrong is probably preferable to Can running around like an absolute shambles and actively stinking the place out, but in reality who fucking knows. Neither of them are good enough for where we want to be, and it's alarming that it wasn't addressed at all in the summer. And that our only other option at this point is Milner.

Just play Oxlade-Chamberlain - he's not had the best start but he'll actually turn up and get involved, and he'll sure as shit put in considerably more effort than Can. At this point I doubt we could be much worse in there.

Said it before, but we'd do well to rip the midfield up and start again at the first available opportunity. Too many "decent" fairweather players who turn in 5-10 good performances a season but otherwise oscillate back and forth between average and mediocrity.

I heard a start last week that mig touched the ball more times than wini.  I don't think those stats improved much today especially 2nd half.  Can was awful against spartak.  Don't understand the reluctance to play boring james milner.  I can understand Klopp's reluctance to start Ox as he was awful at leicester in the league cup,
perhaps not fully fit, just really disappointed with wini who can be great at anfield. 

Lallana at this rate will breeze back into the team half fit in november.   It really is a chance for all these other midfielders to claim the spot for themselves but non are. 


Offline Triad

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12142 on: October 1, 2017, 07:19:51 pm »
How bad has Ox been in training to not get ahead of Gini.

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12143 on: October 1, 2017, 07:21:53 pm »
Signing Oxlade-Chamberlain for £40 million and promising him the chance to play CM, then leaving him on the bench behind Emre Can and Wijnaldum, and limiting him to 10 minute cameos on the wing and a league cup start on the wing doesn't make any sense. No wonder he's looked awful. Said himself he's "not one to run on to balls in behind," yet we put him on the wing... in our system?

I'm not expecting him to be world class but at least he will work and get himself involved.

Offline Ashburton

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12144 on: October 1, 2017, 07:24:22 pm »
I heard a start last week that mig touched the ball more times than wini.  I don't think those stats improved much today especially 2nd half.  Can was awful against spartak.  Don't understand the reluctance to play boring james milner.  I can understand Klopp's reluctance to start Ox as he was awful at leicester in the league cup,
perhaps not fully fit, just really disappointed with wini who can be great at anfield. 

Lallana at this rate will breeze back into the team half fit in november.   It really is a chance for all these other midfielders to claim the spot for themselves but non are.

Problem with Ox is he's defensively pretty suspect, especially positioning wise - for a team which is leaking defensively I can see why Klopp wouldn't pull the trigger on that.

Seems Klopp will trust him on the wing or busting through the middle but not sitting in a number 6 or 8 role.  That said, obvious he needs minutes, and in such a shaky run the pressure will be off him individually to put in a stella performance.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12145 on: October 1, 2017, 07:36:31 pm »
How bad has Ox been in training to not get ahead of Gini.

If Chamberlain started on the right, I doubt that Henderson would pass to him either.
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Offline Haggis36

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12146 on: October 1, 2017, 07:40:16 pm »
I heard a start last week that mig touched the ball more times than wini.  I don't think those stats improved much today especially 2nd half.  Can was awful against spartak.  Don't understand the reluctance to play boring james milner.  I can understand Klopp's reluctance to start Ox as he was awful at leicester in the league cup,
perhaps not fully fit, just really disappointed with wini who can be great at anfield. 

Lallana at this rate will breeze back into the team half fit in november.   It really is a chance for all these other midfielders to claim the spot for themselves but non are.

I've defended Gini a lot in the past but it's become farcical at this point, it's simply inexcusable to be turning in such anonymous performances at this level. In the summer I was very much an advocate of him being a squad option but to be honest, if he can only find it in himself to turn up once in every four or five games then frankly he has no business being at this club.

He, like Can, gets heralded on a handful of strong performances, but if you look at the entire body of his short LFC career, it's not good enough. Bit like how Can has 1 or 2 good games and everyone forgets that he's played over 130 games for us and been rank average in over half of them, and actively awful in probably as many as he's excelled in. I can see why people make arguments to persist - surely if they are capable of top class performances (and they are) then it's just a case of consistency, or waiting for them to click as they mature as players. But the more time that passes it becomes evident that they just aren't that good, and the odd class performance doesn't mitigate the majority of their time here, where as a whole you'd have to say neither have been good enough.

Thing is, Milner was never that good in midfield for us either. We don't yet know if AOC will be any good for us there (though I'd like to see us try). Grujic might be worth a shot were it not for the fact that he's weak off the ball and we're doing badly enough at that at the moment. And that's it - all we've got. I mean it's pretty grim to be honest.

I'm not sure Lallana and Coutinho can play together in midfield as it's a bit too lightweight but at this rate it's probably worth a go as what we have isn't working, at all. I don't see how we turn it around either, which is worrying, cos I'm starting to sense this season could be a write off before we even reach January and have a chance to change anything (not that we will). It's hard to see where the change in fortunes will come from, because Lallana is good but he isn't the saviour, and the rest are the same players they've always been. Consistently inconsistent and truth be told not as good as we like to think they are.

Problem with Ox is he's defensively pretty suspect, especially positioning wise - for a team which is leaking defensively I can see why Klopp wouldn't pull the trigger on that.

Seems Klopp will trust him on the wing or busting through the middle but not sitting in a number 6 or 8 role.  That said, obvious he needs minutes, and in such a shaky run the pressure will be off him individually to put in a stella performance.

Fair, but Can is an utter liability defensively and I'm not sure what Wijnaldum actually does, but it isn't winning duels/tackles or tracking runs and it doesn't look like defending, so I'm not sure AOC could actually be any worse.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12147 on: October 1, 2017, 07:44:13 pm »
The switch to 4-2-3-1 didnt work. Lost all of Coutinho’s passing in the middle.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12148 on: October 1, 2017, 08:07:40 pm »
Kept saying this last year and have been saying it since Lallana's injury, Lallana is our most important midfielder. He will be revelation for us. Other than him, at this point I would play Chamberlain in midfield, as Gini and Can are doing the square root of fuck all. Hell even Milner would be more useful.

Henderson,Lallana,Chamberlain/Coutinho

Can and Gini can sit on the bench until they step it up massively.

Offline MihawkLFC

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12149 on: October 1, 2017, 08:10:24 pm »
Man I wish we'd try Henderson in the right back spot.
Think he'd do well there. Would also give him more opportunities to put in the floating balls towards the backpost he is becoming so good at.
Shame that we arent in FM here and it prolly wouldnt work.

I just desperately want him in my Liverpool starting eleven but I cant see him getting a game next season if we do finally get a defensive mid. Coutinho, Keita and a proper DM in midfield would be mouthwatering and would probably provide a great balance in the middle of the pitch.

I just don't get why this is the second manager in charge of us now that doesn't see the need of buying a proper defensive mid, but I'm just a casually frustrated Liverpool fan.

Offline wemmick

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12150 on: October 1, 2017, 08:25:47 pm »
The switch to 4-2-3-1 didnt work. Lost all of Coutinho’s passing in the middle.

We did, but Firmino, Henderson and Gini also did a better job of covering central and half spaces without Coutinho in the middle. In all honestly, I think he was poor in defense today. His positioning was all over the shop. It will be interesting to see if Klopp can find a way to keep Coutinho central in a 4-2-3-1, or if we go back to the same old with the 4-3-3. I suspect having Salah, Coutinho, and Mane on the pitch at the same time may not become what we all dreamed. None of them defend consistently.     

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12151 on: October 1, 2017, 08:27:15 pm »
I mean it's pretty grim to be honest.

I can't disagree with any of what you've posted.  I posted at the end of last season that i thought lallana will struggle to make first 11 because if klopp sees phil playing central and if we get the additional winger, i couldn't see where lallana would fit. 

That would still be my position, regardless of getting not getting keita, i'd opt for one of the other slightly defensive midfielders but the other midfielders have been so ineffective, kinell, i think if lucas or allen was here they'd probably get a run of games and i was never a fan of theirs either.

We dominate possession in most games, which never ceases to amaze me, cos our passing is woeful at times, but we do, sometimes cos the opposition let us have it, and sometimes cos salah and mane are effective outlets, but the midfield are ineffective at influencing play at either end of the pitch i can only see it changing, consistently for the better, with a change of personnel which isn't happening any time soon.

I fear we'll be consistently inconsistent until such time.

grim indeed.





Offline Triad

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12152 on: October 1, 2017, 08:41:23 pm »
We did, but Firmino, Henderson and Gini also did a better job of covering central and half spaces without Coutinho in the middle. In all honestly, I think he was poor in defense today. His positioning was all over the shop. It will be interesting to see if Klopp can find a way to keep Coutinho central in a 4-2-3-1, or if we go back to the same old with the 4-3-3. I suspect having Salah, Coutinho, and Mane on the pitch at the same time may not become what we all dreamed. None of them defend consistently.     
Gini has to be a bit braver in the 2nd half today.The amount of times our defenders were passing to each other and he didn't drop to give them an outlet was insane.

Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12153 on: October 1, 2017, 08:55:36 pm »
Rodgers was crucified for playing constantly playing Allen, that's nothing compared to Klopp's blind spot with Wijnaldum.

Allen would actually be better than Gigi right now. At least he shows for the ball and can turn without needing multiple touches.

Criminal how Gigi and Henderson think doing the bare minimum is enough.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12154 on: October 1, 2017, 08:59:16 pm »
Our midfield is actually quite poor. Surprisingly, shockingly so.

Converting Henderson to his position does not look like a masterstroke from where we are now - although he is a good player and his effort is not in question.

We are a midfield in desperate need of specialists not generalists. Back to the drawing board, although Keita will help.
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12155 on: October 1, 2017, 09:03:55 pm »
Gini has to be a bit braver in the 2nd half today.


Here's the Ghost's run down for the second half from @LFCdata

15 passes
1 shot
0 chance created
0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 take-ons


Hopefully the wizards from this thread will be along shortly to explain how they don't tell the full story and he did some outstanding 'link play' or 'passing lane filling' or some such........

Offline Haggis36

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12156 on: October 1, 2017, 09:12:23 pm »
Our midfield is actually quite poor. Surprisingly, shockingly so.

Converting Henderson to his position does not look like a masterstroke from where we are now - although he is a good player and his effort is not in question.

We are a midfield in desperate need of specialists not generalists. Back to the drawing board, although Keita will help.

Keita and Coutinho is 2/3rds of a world class midfield - put a quality deep player behind them (not necessarily on their level as I don't think we'll be dropping another £50m on a midfielder next year) and that completely transfers our entire game. Having said that, I've not got much optimism we'll ever see the two of them play together unfortunately.

But yeah, we could pretty much rip it up and start again really. I think it needs major surgery, and whereas before it felt like if we brought in new starters and pushed the current ones to the bench then that'd be ideal, now we're in a place where Can will probably leave, Wijnaldum is on borrowed time unless he pulls his socks up, Grujic seems as far away as ever, Milner will surely move on (and should be seeing limited time in midfield anyway) and only really Henderson seems likely to be around long-term. Add in uncertainty over Coutinho...

I think the only players guaranteed to be here next year are Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum and Lallana (who will be 30) and looking at that lot you could feasibly argue we need another 3 players.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12157 on: October 1, 2017, 09:15:23 pm »
Keita and Coutinho is 2/3rds of a world class midfield - put a quality deep player behind them (not necessarily on their level as I don't think we'll be dropping another £50m on a midfielder next year) and that completely transfers our entire game. Having said that, I've not got much optimism we'll ever see the two of them play together unfortunately.

But yeah, we could pretty much rip it up and start again really. I think it needs major surgery, and whereas before it felt like if we brought in new starters and pushed the current ones to the bench then that'd be ideal, now we're in a place where Can will probably leave, Wijnaldum is on borrowed time unless he pulls his socks up, Grujic seems as far away as ever, Milner will surely move on (and should be seeing limited time in midfield anyway) and only really Henderson seems likely to be around long-term. Add in uncertainty over Coutinho...

I think the only players guaranteed to be here next year are Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum and Lallana (who will be 30) and looking at that lot you could feasibly argue we need another 3 players.

I actually prefer Phil in the front-line personally. I'd rather a "hockey-assist" David Silva type player or to be fair: Naby Keita.
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Offline JD.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12158 on: October 1, 2017, 09:15:50 pm »
Keita and Coutinho is 2/3rds of a world class midfield - put a quality deep player behind them (not necessarily on their level as I don't think we'll be dropping another £50m on a midfielder next year) and that completely transfers our entire game. Having said that, I've not got much optimism we'll ever see the two of them play together unfortunately.

But yeah, we could pretty much rip it up and start again really. I think it needs major surgery, and whereas before it felt like if we brought in new starters and pushed the current ones to the bench then that'd be ideal, now we're in a place where Can will probably leave, Wijnaldum is on borrowed time unless he pulls his socks up, Grujic seems as far away as ever, Milner will surely move on (and should be seeing limited time in midfield anyway) and only really Henderson seems likely to be around long-term. Add in uncertainty over Coutinho...

I think the only players guaranteed to be here next year are Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum and Lallana (who will be 30) and looking at that lot you could feasibly argue we need another 3 players.

Coutinho and Keita would be brilliant. An elite DM really would finally give us a brilliant midfield again.

Worry is will Coutinho be here beyond next summer. We held off for one summer after they came in late for him. Would we hold them off for a second summer, especially if they came in for him early June rather than late July.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #12159 on: October 1, 2017, 09:16:21 pm »
Here's the Ghost's run down for the second half from @LFCdata

15 passes
1 shot
0 chance created
0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 take-ons


Hopefully the wizards from this thread will be along shortly to explain how they don't tell the full story and he did some outstanding 'link play' or 'passing lane filling' or some such........

I've defended the lad a lot but that makes me really fucking angry to be honest. This isn't some kid who has come in and is just trying not to make mistakes, this is a (nearly) 27 year old man who has over 400 career appearances, hiding from the fucking ball. It's legitimately inexcusable.