Author Topic: It's just a battle for the order of the first 4 spots now between 5 teams...  (Read 560248 times)

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #120 on: January 20, 2014, 04:22:45 am »
I'm sure Rodgers said early in the season he wanted more defenders on the score sheet :D

So, those were names in the envelopes from this year  ;D
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Offline Kadian

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #121 on: January 20, 2014, 04:23:20 am »

Why do some posters (not just you Kadian) get the idea that we can run Arsenal close?

They have strength in depth, have better players, are more technical, have a better manager, have money, have the experience of good run-ins, are more consistent - seriously, what even give you guys the idea?

The mind boggles at the football knowledge on this site sometimes.

I'm not all too convinced, i did say 'faint'. Macred is the one who seems strangely convinced.

Who knows, their attack does seem like it could switch off for a period of the season. Giroud could go through a lean spell, and with Walcott out, the goals could dry up. Their defence is impressive though.

Offline Something Awful

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #122 on: January 20, 2014, 04:25:36 am »
We go on a run, we're in the chase for the title. We stutter again, we're out. Nothing more than that, really.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #123 on: January 20, 2014, 04:36:33 am »

Why do some posters (not just you Kadian) get the idea that we can run Arsenal close?

They have strength in depth, have better players, are more technical, have a better manager, have money, have the experience of good run-ins, are more consistent - seriously, what even give you guys the idea?

The mind boggles at the football knowledge on this site sometimes.

Because we don't play Arsenal every week. It's not best out of 16 games. As long as we win our games and take advantage of games when they drop points, we can run them close. Possibly overtake them if we beat them at Anfield. You're essentially saying that they will either win every game for the rest of the season, or match every single result we have. Neither scenario is likely. They will drop points, we will gain points. We will drop points, they will gain points. Our destiny isn't tied to theirs. We play our own games, and do the best we can in them, and then it will come down to points dropped and gained and advantage taken or given away week-to-week. So it's very possible we could overtake Arsenal.
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Offline Kansti

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #124 on: January 20, 2014, 04:38:52 am »
We go on a run, we're in the chase for the title. We stutter again, we're out. Nothing more than that, really.

Except the fact that we're reliant on Spurs and Everton to drop points. We shouldn't, but our shite performance against Villa allowed so. Call me negative and a knee jerker, but looking at Cissokho, Glen Johnson, Kolo Toure, and "Andrea Pirlo", I don't feel confident, no let me rephrase that, I don't feel comfortable with us going into the derby, which is basically a must win now.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #125 on: January 20, 2014, 04:44:52 am »
Except the fact that we're reliant on Spurs and Everton to drop points. We shouldn't, but our shite performance against Villa allowed so. Call me negative and a knee jerker, but looking at Cissokho, Glen Johnson, Kolo Toure, and "Andrea Pirlo", I don't feel confident, no let me rephrase that, I don't feel comfortable with us going into the derby, which is basically a must win now.

We're actually the team in fourth place. So we don't need them to drop points. We need to match their scores, and not lose against them when we play them. That way, we remain fourth until the end of the season.
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Offline Kennynyaboo

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #126 on: January 20, 2014, 05:11:02 am »
Because we don't play Arsenal every week. It's not best out of 16 games. As long as we win our games and take advantage of games when they drop points, we can run them close. Possibly overtake them if we beat them at Anfield. You're essentially saying that they will either win every game for the rest of the season, or match every single result we have. Neither scenario is likely. They will drop points, we will gain points. We will drop points, they will gain points. Our destiny isn't tied to theirs. We play our own games, and do the best we can in them, and then it will come down to points dropped and gained and advantage taken or given away week-to-week. So it's very possible we could overtake Arsenal.

So far, in terms of runs, they are definitely better than us.
We drop points we should win, they don't.

Simples.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #127 on: January 20, 2014, 05:18:06 am »
So far, in terms of runs, they are definitely better than us.
We drop points we should win, they don't.

Simples.

But they still drop points. So, not simples.
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Offline Miro

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #128 on: January 20, 2014, 05:30:55 am »
Everton, Spurs by far the biggest threats. Man united definitely still in it. My main worry is the Lucas injury. This will massively hamper our season unless we are able to bring in a capable replacement this January (which is very difficult as Lucas is used to the system and any new player will take time no matter how good he is).

Allen in my opinion does not play the role to the same level as Lucas and with a leaky defence like ours we all saw the value of Lucas from the first 10 minutes against Aston Villa. As for Gerrard, well that was a nightmare show at DM and i would take Allen playing that position any day.

This is why i am mainly worried about securing the 4th spot. In order to achieve it we have to go on a great run and I'm skeptical of our chances of being consistent with out current midfield situation

Offline Something Awful

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #129 on: January 20, 2014, 05:43:47 am »
But they still drop points. So, not simples.

Exactly.

We were top of the league when we lost at City and at Chelsea. Arsenal aren't going to win out, and they have a tough run that can see wins turn into draws or defeats. Their last few results were wins over Fulham, Villa, Cardiff, Newcastle and West Ham. Of those, only Newcastle would be considered a tough one.

In a few weeks they'll play Tottenham, Chelsea, City and Everton all in a row. Only City at home. If they lose the first three (or middle two), the fourth one is even harder. Momentum is a legitimate factor in the season. That run of fixtures could potentially change everything.
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #130 on: January 20, 2014, 05:53:31 am »
I see Spurs as favourites to be honest now to be honest, .they have the strongest squad. They were lucky enough to keep on picking up lucky results when they were playing like shite.

We need to strengthen our midfield and fullbacks.


Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #131 on: January 20, 2014, 05:59:42 am »
Lucas injury is huge for us. I think it will end up knocking us a couple of positions lower in the league. 5th or 6th. Our squad is too thin. We would need all our injured players to come back and not pick up any more key injuries to get 4th or even 3rd if we go on a run and Arsenal drop points, which I don't see them doing. They have a confidence about them, a tight solid defence and usually finish strong. I think they might even have the most points for the last calendar year to date. The home games help us, it is vital we beat Everton and go on a run. Slip up against them, and it will knock us back pretty hard. We have lost a bit of momentum while others are picking it up around us. I would be a lot more confident if we still had Lucas.
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Offline keyo

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #132 on: January 20, 2014, 06:31:05 am »
need to continue to set our sights on those above us....our fixture list for the second half of the season is more favourable than the first half, but we still have to make it count.....our form has been pretty good of late, barring that first half against villa....and we are scoring, which is giving us an opportunity in every game...improving our defence is the key, we cannot continue to concede the number of goals at the rate we have of late, this will threaten our form and be a massive issue if the goals start to dry up

if we continue to chase the top 3 with some success, we will hold off spurs and everton...we have both of them at home and we need to target wins in those games, united are outsiders for the top 4, and if we push the top 3 they will not impact our position at all
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Offline random22

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #133 on: January 20, 2014, 06:40:56 am »
Really disappointed we dropped silly points previously because of poor team selection and injuries our players incurred.  We would’ve been vying for the title with Chelsea, Arsenal and City had everything been perfect for us. But instead, now we are talking about the fourth place.  That said, I think we are favorites ahead of Everton, Spurs and Manc, who I think will finish below us, no matter what.

Offline hitnrock

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #134 on: January 20, 2014, 07:34:30 am »
The big ones. (The ones in bold are against title contenders based on current table.)

Arsenal

Liverpool v Arsenal
Arsenal v Man Utd
Spurs v Arsenal
Chelsea v Arsenal
Arsenal v Man City

Everton v Arsenal


Chelsea

Man City v Chelsea
Chelsea v Everton
Chelsea v Spurs
Chelsea v Arsenal
Liverpool v Chelsea


Liverpool

Liverpool v Everton
Liverpool v Arsenal
Man Utd v Liverpool
Liverpool v Spurs
Liverpool v Man City
Liverpool v Chelsea



Man City

Spurs v Man City
Man City v Chelsea
Man Utd v Man City
Arsenal v Man City
Liverpool v Man City
Everton v Man City

Man Utd

Arsenal v Man Utd
Man Utd v Man City
Man Utd v Liverpool
Everton v Man Utd


Everton

Liverpool v Everton
Spurs v Everton
Chelsea v Everton
Everton v Arsenal
Everton v Man Utd


Spurs

Spurs v Man City
Spurs v Everton
Chelsea v Spurs
Spurs v Arsenal
Liverpool v Spurs

People writing off United should be wary.
Arsenal are in for a reality check.
Our home form is crucial, without which it could get difficult for us.
City have to find form away if they want the title.
Chelsea, if they keep doing what they are doing could easily win the title.
Spurs are average. I think they'll finish below Everton and United.
Everton are a mixed bag. Derby is crucial. Point-wise and mentally too.

Overall just based on the "big ones" we could finish from 3rd to 5th. Can't see us below that.
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Offline Mamadou

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #135 on: January 20, 2014, 07:56:38 am »
Well we've hardly played well bar v's them realistically and are still 4th ;)

true... we're 4th atm thanks to our world-class superb attack ( SaS), because our defence and midfield has been dire so far. I'm afraid how the season goes on, our weaknesses will get more and more exsposed, and we may fail to get 4th spot... Spurs just got what they were missing, a striker who can score, and their overall form has improved, in other hand our form doesn't look stable enough, and we lack squad depth
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Offline spider-neil

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #136 on: January 20, 2014, 08:14:08 am »
Yep, that's how I see it. Us, Spurs, Everton and Manu in a race for 4th. Didn't ever see us as title contenders.
It's 4th or bust because Suarez is definitely off if we finish outside top 4.

Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #137 on: January 20, 2014, 08:48:15 am »
Yep, that's how I see it. Us, Spurs, Everton and Manu in a race for 4th. Didn't ever see us as title contenders.
It's 4th or bust because Suarez is definitely off if we finish outside top 4.
I think he's off even if we scrape 4th. A title challenge and he might be persuaded to stay.
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Offline Macedonian Red Reborn

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #138 on: January 20, 2014, 08:52:10 am »
We just played a shit Villa team making them look world beaters.

Just out of curiosity, how many teams have beaten both Arsenal and Man City this season?
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #139 on: January 20, 2014, 09:12:51 am »
Bit of a topsy turvy season really. Would probably have a better idea if we had played more of the competition at our place, instead of all away (barring united).

Even if we didn't win them all it could still see possibly an extra six points on what we have now. Still a long way to go. This year it's as unpredictable as hell so just enjoy the ride until there's 8 games left.

Offline Lippy The Lion

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #140 on: January 20, 2014, 09:18:56 am »
Already shitting it thinking of Traore and Lukaku in amongst our defence at the Derby, 8 days left to sort it out Brendan!

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Offline DutchRed

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #141 on: January 20, 2014, 09:27:50 am »
Yep, that's how I see it. Us, Spurs, Everton and Manu in a race for 4th. Didn't ever see us as title contenders.
It's 4th or bust because Suarez is definitely off if we finish outside top 4.

We would pocket a huge amount of money if he went. I think we could benefit from a Suarez transfer if the money is spent wisely.
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #142 on: January 20, 2014, 09:32:08 am »
Us, Spurs, Bitters and Mancs...perm any one from four....it'll be a question of who's got the bottle going down the home straight...and a fresh supply of undies at Easter
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Offline spider-neil

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #143 on: January 20, 2014, 09:32:17 am »
We go on a run, we're in the chase for the title. We stutter again, we're out. Nothing more than that, really.

I just don't see us as having the consistency to match and better the teams above us (excluding Everton if they win their game in hand).

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #144 on: January 20, 2014, 09:33:24 am »
We would pocket a huge amount of money if he went. I think we could benefit from a Suarez transfer if the money is spent wisely.

But we wouldn't be in the CL to attract the best talent. Finishing outside of the top 4 would be a disaster.

Offline DutchRed

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #145 on: January 20, 2014, 09:48:29 am »
But we wouldn't be in the CL to attract the best talent. Finishing outside of the top 4 would be a disaster.

Sturridge, Coutinho and Suarez will do for me. We would like to be in the top four, but looking at our squad size and, for example, the size of Spurs' and Man Utd's squad we can't expect it to happen.
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Offline spider-neil

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #146 on: January 20, 2014, 09:57:16 am »
Sturridge, Coutinho and Suarez will do for me. We would like to be in the top four, but looking at our squad size and, for example, the size of Spurs' and Man Utd's squad we can't expect it to happen.

My point is if we fail to make top 4 then Suarez wont be here to play with Sturridge and Coutinho and as I said it will be hard to replace that quality if we aren't in the top 4 as we were in the summer missing out of Micky, Costa and Willan.
So if FSG are gambling men then now is the time to roll the dice.

As for the original question, yes I think it is a fight for 4th with Spurs, Everton and Manu.
The upside is we play 2 of those those 3 teams at home.
We majority the majority of the top 8 at home.
We have no European commitments.
We have the most inform strike partnership in the country.
We have defenders returning from injury.

Offline Melbred

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #147 on: January 20, 2014, 09:57:41 am »
Sturridge, Coutinho and Suarez will do for me. We would like to be in the top four, but looking at our squad size and, for example, the size of Spurs' and Man Utd's squad we can't expect it to happen.

We have the perfect opportunity to reinforce our squad right now, to help us push on to get a top 4 spot.

Those three players you've referenced were all bought in the January window. If we're serious, we know what we need to do.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #148 on: January 20, 2014, 10:01:44 am »
We have the perfect opportunity to reinforce our squad right now, to help us push on to get a top 4 spot.

Those three players you've referenced were all bought in the January window. If we're serious, we know what we need to do.

We would have to pay over the odds for M'Vila and Salah but their contribution may be the difference of finishing top or not.
With the injury to Lucas, a injury to Allen (who is pretty injury prone) Henderson and Gerrard (no spring chicken) would see us going 2 in the middle (unless we play Agger or Touré there) for a series of games and that is a really scary thought.

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #149 on: January 20, 2014, 10:05:14 am »
We would have to pay over the odds for M'Vila and Salah but their contribution may be the difference of finishing top or not.
With the injury to Lucas, a injury to Allen (who is pretty injury prone) Henderson and Gerrard (no spring chicken) would see us going 2 in the middle (unless we play Agger or Touré there) for a series of games and that is a really scary thought.

Yep, and an injury to any one of those seems more likely to happen than not. We are down to our bare bones in midfield - and you would seriously hope that the injury to Lucas (no matter how long he is out for) will be the catalyst to our movement in the window. If we don't reinforce, and we play that two man midfield again - our top four chances could seriously be jeaopardised.

This is before even mentioning our troubles at full back.

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #150 on: January 20, 2014, 10:08:51 am »
We have the perfect opportunity to reinforce our squad right now, to help us push on to get a top 4 spot.

Those three players you've referenced were all bought in the January window. If we're serious, we know what we need to do.

Juste. Two or three good players might just see us over the line. Having to revert to Cissokho, with all due respect to the lad, is not a characteristic of a side planning their top four return.
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Offline redk84

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #151 on: January 20, 2014, 10:26:09 am »
we stuttered in this last month no doubt....

but we had a very good start to the season. We drew to Villa and Spurs are on a great run right now and are level....so what does that mean they will keep that up for the rest of the season?

Everton are still there.....can their squad handle the whole season at this pace let alone ours?

Arsenal have depth and i can see them holding out for 2nd or 3rd....but you never know. They have a horrid Feb/March.
Chelsea and City do look in ominous form right now, but if they get a couple results not going their way....wont look so invincible.

With European football still to come back and the squads for the teams ahead of us being stretched there's alot of opportunity to get a good run in and take points off the others.
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Offline XabiAlonsosBeard

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #152 on: January 20, 2014, 10:26:33 am »

Why do some posters (not just you Kadian) get the idea that we can run Arsenal close?

They have strength in depth, have better players, are more technical, have a better manager, have money, have the experience of good run-ins, are more consistent - seriously, what even give you guys the idea?

The mind boggles at the football knowledge on this site sometimes.

Because they lack a goalscorer. They are perennial bottlers and are yet to have their customary blip. We play them soon and can close the gap on them with a win. Then they have a horrendous fun of fixtures in March, which could see them struggle to pick up points.

I think Arsenal will finish above us, but taking the above into account, I wouldn't say it's entirely unrealistic that we could finish above them.

As for the doom and gloom merchants, stop it. We finished 7th last season. We're not going to win every game. People need to accept that. Neither are our top 4 rivals. Villa was a poor result, but we need to react to it, as we did after the Hull defeat. People are going on like we lost.

This defeatist attitude is also pervasive in the Everton thread on the general forum, this player will score against us, we'll struggle against Everton etc. Basically, all but conceding the derby before a ball is kicked.

We are in good form. The City and Chelsea games are expected losses for most teams. The Villa draw is the only other real blip in, say, the last 10 games.

We'll push on again. Chucking money at it after a poor 45 minutes is purely reactionary and guarantees nothing. Bring 1 or 2 in, but people are talking about wholesale transfers, using our summer budget now etc. Fair enough, we'll struggle to keep Suarez with no top 4. But has anybody considered that introducing 3 or 4 new players, from foreign leagues, could unsettle the team as they may need a bedding in period (just look at Spurs early form), and actually cost us in terms of performance and points.

For me, just keep on doing what we're doing. It'll be tough, but we'll be there or thereabouts. Between us and Everton, for me. United are effectively 7 points behind. They've been poor even with Rooney and RVP in the team. They'll drop more points. I have no doubts in that regard.

Spurs are on a bounce. But, I feel Sherwood will get found out soon. They're too open and will drop points against the bigger teams. Still have to come to our place too.

Everton. They concern me the most. Playing well, doing it all, dominating teams, scoring goals, fairly tight defensively, getting points against the bigger teams. But, got a sneaky feeling they'll drop points tonight. Win the derby, and we could have a 5 point cushion over them.

So, keep the faith.
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Offline MiserableP15

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #153 on: January 20, 2014, 10:37:41 am »
Realistically, in answer to the OP, yes.

The next 2-3 sets of fixtures could change that view and part of me still thinks if we're within 6 points of top spot when the Champions League starts again, we could still be within a shout.
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #154 on: January 20, 2014, 10:44:38 am »
We might look back at the Villa game and see at as a point gained than 2 points lost.

I think it's between us and Everton. Spuds are still in Europe - is the Europa winner guaranteed a spot in the CL or is that next season?

Keep up the home form and certainly no losses on the road.

At some point Everton will suffer a couple of losses but the Derby game has put us under immense pressure - win that and that puts the confidence to get 4th spot.

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #155 on: January 20, 2014, 10:54:19 am »
You're wrong there mate. The bookmakers disagree and have us down as faves.

The bookies also have 250/1 on Rodgers being the next manager to be sacked, Chelsea on 1500/1 to be relegated this season.

Fact is, they have quality players. Their manager is all thats dragging them down. One spark is all that stands between them and a bulldozing 2nd half season.

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #156 on: January 20, 2014, 10:54:26 am »
Realistically, in answer to the OP, yes.

The next 2-3 sets of fixtures could change that view and part of me still thinks if we're within 6 points of top spot when the Champions League starts again, we could still be within a shout.

Agreed, there are far too many things that could change over the next set of fixtures and once the European competitions (Champions League/Europa League) kick off again.   City and Chelsea have the depth in squad so injuries and fatigue may not that impact their form but the key could be the match-fitness of those coming in. 

I think we can't look back on points dropped but need to look forward and take learnings from these fixtures to ensure that we push on and keep pushing as there's no telling when the others may slip up.
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #157 on: January 20, 2014, 10:54:57 am »
I don't think United can be ruled out. Let's not forget they've got two of the best strikers in the league. If they can get them fit and keep them fit they have every chance of going on a run, Moyes or no Moyes. Obviously they're in a poor position but if one weekend's results goes their way they'll be three points off, just like that.
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #158 on: January 20, 2014, 10:57:59 am »
We might look back at the Villa game and see at as a point gained than 2 points lost.

I think it's between us and Everton. Spuds are still in Europe - is the Europa winner guaranteed a spot in the CL or is that next season?

Keep up the home form and certainly no losses on the road.

At some point Everton will suffer a couple of losses but the Derby game has put us under immense pressure - win that and that puts the confidence to get 4th spot.


The derby next week is of massive importance. We'll be under greater pressure if Everton win tonight and sit above us in the table.

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #159 on: January 20, 2014, 11:10:30 am »
More worried about Everton than I am United or Spurs. This has everything to do with them having a very good manager, and Spurs and United not having one.


But as others have said, it's in our own hands and I can see us picking up more points than them all once Sakho and Agger are back.