Author Topic: Injury news only thread. *  (Read 1932395 times)

Offline Giono

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9960 on: June 5, 2018, 01:03:08 pm »
It doesn't take long when venturing into the cesspool of social media that conspiracy minded folk are making fanciful claims about Karius' test results being tainted based on the fact Henry once sat on the board of the hospital where the tests took place

And this is why it is incredibly important as to why this information has been put out there even if the Chris Suttons of the world disagree. Football as an industry has a hell of a lot if growing up to do when it comes to head injuries. People claiming that the concussion is being used as an excuse are missing the point. In the past four years, players have suffered concussions in the WC Final and CL Final, the two most high-profile games in the sport, as well as countless other games. And yet there has not been a peep about how to reform the system. It's like the NFL's culture of denial about CTE. 20 years from now we're going to be wondering how the football authorities were so fucking naive

The NFL and NHL are facing lawsuits from ex-players. Hell, some ex-players are donating their brains to science...and they wear helmets. I figure the FA won’t do anything.
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Offline sms1986

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9961 on: June 5, 2018, 01:03:17 pm »
I'm on about the minority of clowns signing that cringeworthy petition, for the record I would have been cock-a-fooking-hoop to see one of our players snap that bastard Ramos and have him stretchered off the pitch.

Wasn't the petition made by Egyptians rather than Liverpool fans specifically? I wouldn't blame them for it if the guy who got them to their first World Cup in almost 30 years had his chance to go put at risk.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9962 on: June 5, 2018, 01:04:30 pm »
I figure the FA won’t do anything.

"A long-awaited study into the links between heading a football and brain damage will start in January, the Football Association has announced.

The doctor who claimed former striker Jeff Astle died because of repeated head trauma is to lead the study.

Dr Willie Stewart said his report would aim to "provide some understanding of the long-term health impact of football within the next two to three years".

"This is a huge day for football," said former England captain Alan Shearer.

In the recent BBC documentary Alan Shearer: Dementia, Football and Me, the ex-Newcastle United striker highlighted the case of Astle."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42094034


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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9963 on: June 5, 2018, 01:26:32 pm »
Does it give Karius some justification in his performance, or is it just another excuse for us to complain about. For me the game has gone, I want to forget it even happened and try to erase it from my memory.

We are coming across as very poor losers, Ramos is shithouse and fingers crossed someone will stick one on him during the World Cup, but some people are trying to claim Karius made those mistakes because he was suffering with concussion. Maybe it was a factor, maybe it wasn't, but now people are turning on a Sky Sports presenter for laughing when mentioning the concussion.

It just seems we are looking for an excuse for getting beat, it doesn't sit well. Just look forward not backwards.

I feel desperately sorry for Karius, he's obviously a talented keeper but I fear he will never get over this no matter how much he tries. You think back to Seaman getting caught out by the Ronaldhino free-kick, an amazing keeper with a stellar career but people will always remember that goal.

Next season the defence wont trust him, opposition players will deliberately target him, the fans will turn on him big time at the slightest mistake.
The best thing he can do is rebuild his career back in Germany and we get a proven keeper.

If by "some people" you mean "a leading expert on traumatic brain injuries, concussion, and other neurological disorders having authored more than 300 peer-reviewed journal articles, abstracts and book chapters on these subjects and has cared for athletes of all ages for more than 20 years" then yes. "Some people" are making this claim. The very people who are qualified to make that claim rendering whatever anybody whose knowledge and experience on the subject matter is effectively nil has to say utterly redundant.

Opinions are not of equal value. Just as the most popular opinion isn't necessarily the right one. In this instance, there is the qualified & educated opinion. Then there is the noisy rhetoric. It's basically the flat earth debate - science vs ignorance. You cannot present both sides of this as if they are equally plausible because they aren't. One is an opinion supported by medical tests performed by the leading person in carrying out such tests in the world to determine the thing that is being discussed. The other is unsubstantiated nonsense. Uninformed dribble. It's bollocks, basically.

Maybe the earth is flat, maybe it's round - These opinions are not of equal value either.

Then you have slipped into the other accepted wisdom - that the only solution to Ramos' shithousery is for someone to "stick one on him" during the world cup. Because the only thing violent arseholes understand is violence, right? But then if we are praying for more violence, are we on the violent arsehole side of that argument ourselves? And if we are, is it possible we can take a step back and ask if there is a possible solution to these problems where more violence isn't the solution?

One idea, for example, would be to have rules that specifically outlaw such violence. Then punish those who ignore those rules somehow. Maybe even go a step further and appoint neutral person(s) to be on the field to responsibly implement these rules. Then perhaps have some sort of oversight on the field, someone monitoring the performance of that person while also making him aware of anything that he may have missed. Stuff like that might work better than going back to an old testament eye for an eye system of resolving problems. As Martin Luther King said, "The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."

As for everything else you said. It's just more opinion dressed up as fact. And as we have already discussed above, those opinions are based on bollocks.
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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9964 on: June 5, 2018, 01:28:36 pm »
Sorry if repeating stuff here, but the BBC report was updated from their original article to confirm it was Liverpool FC who referred Karius to the doctors in the US. He was on holiday in the US and contacted the club while there, and they then referred him, 5 days after the final.

Offline Dench57

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Re: Seems Karius was Concussed
« Reply #9965 on: June 5, 2018, 01:32:40 pm »
That was a knuckleball, and a great save.

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Offline M_B

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9966 on: June 5, 2018, 01:35:18 pm »
Is he? How, exactly? Aside from the final, did he make more mistakes than the average keeper?  I thought he'd actually had a pretty good 5-6 months up until Kiev, seemed to make every save I'd expect him to make and a few I wouldn't. Certainly wouldn't have said h was a "liability," personally.

He's a liability because he will be targeted by every crowd in the Premiership and every team will want to test his confidence. He's a liability because if Klopp continues him as number 1, then another mistake of that magnitude will not be Karius's fault, but the fault of the manager for playing him. He's a liability because every mistake he makes from now on will be over analyzed and if his already heavily brusied confidence goes South one month into the season then we can wave goodbye to any title challenge. And yes he's a liability because frankly he just isn't that good.

Just loan him out and replace him. If he does well on loan then he can come back to fight for a place, but to continue him as first choice keeper is a gamble we have no need to take.

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9967 on: June 5, 2018, 01:38:28 pm »
Going by some of the posts you see on here you would not believe some people are 'suppporters' of Liverpool Football Club for a second

Slightly worrying some people are more concerned with 'how it looks to people' than the much bigger issue of a serious injury being massively overlooked by the official supposedly in charge of the game

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9968 on: June 5, 2018, 01:39:22 pm »
He's a liability because he will be targeted by every crowd in the Premiership and every team will want to test his confidence. He's a liability because if Klopp continues him as number 1, then another mistake of that magnitude will not be Karius's fault, but the fault of the manager for playing him. He's a liability because every mistake he makes from now on will be over analyzed and if his already heavily brusied confidence goes South one month into the season then we can wave goodbye to any title challenge. And yes he's a liability because frankly he just isn't that good.

Just loan him out and replace him. If he does well on loan then he can come back to fight for a place, but to continue him as first choice keeper is a gamble we have no need to take.

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Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: Seems Karius was Concussed
« Reply #9969 on: June 5, 2018, 01:40:01 pm »
I don't think the examination was to gather evidence for UEFA.  They have requested it in the hope they can revive his career at Liverpool, or at least his value before selling. And it seems to be working too as many fans are willing to give him another opportunity to drop the ball.

Sadly Karius is a liability. A fresh start elsewhere would be good for both him and us.

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Offline M_B

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9970 on: June 5, 2018, 01:41:24 pm »
Repeating yourself doesn't make what you type true you know.



What? I was asked to explain why I thought he was a liability, so I did.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9971 on: June 5, 2018, 01:41:27 pm »
He's a liability because he will be targeted by every crowd in the Premiership and every team will want to test his confidence.

Or most rival fans will have forgotten about it? I doubt most will care apart from maybe United and Everton fans. Before it gets brought up, the Gerrard slip was very different in that it didn't involve any injury.

Every team will want to test his confidence? Isn't that what every team does to every goalkeeper they face?

Quote
He's a liability because if Klopp continues him as number 1, then another mistake of that magnitude will not be Karius's fault, but the fault of the manager for playing him.

He was playing with a concussion for much of the second half, it doesn't completely exonerate him for the mistakes but it certainly mitigates them. He was doing great overall in the preceding months.

Quote
He's a liability because every mistake he makes from now on will be over analyzed and if his already heavily brusied confidence goes South one month into the season then we can wave goodbye to any title challenge. And yes he's a liability because frankly he just isn't that good.

We had Mignolet and Jones as our keepers for the 13/14 season with a worse overall team.

Quote
Just loan him out and replace him. If he does well on loan then he can come back to fight for a place, but to continue him as first choice keeper is a gamble we have no need to take.

I would trust Klopp on this, if he makes Karius number one next season then so be it.

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9972 on: June 5, 2018, 01:42:04 pm »
He's a liability because he will be targeted by every crowd in the Premiership and every team will want to test his confidence. He's a liability because if Klopp continues him as number 1, then another mistake of that magnitude will not be Karius's fault, but the fault of the manager for playing him. He's a liability because every mistake he makes from now on will be over analyzed and if his already heavily brusied confidence goes South one month into the season then we can wave goodbye to any title challenge. And yes he's a liability because frankly he just isn't that good.

Just loan him out and replace him. If he does well on loan then he can come back to fight for a place, but to continue him as first choice keeper is a gamble we have no need to take.


Did you not notice that every tiny little thing he did last season was micro-analised by people (including plenty here) who wanted to find anything to use as ammunition to critise him? That's nothing new. He's had to live with that since his first few weeks here. Will it be worse? Probably. But throwing out the phrase 'he's a liability' as fact doesn't actually make him one.  And it's kinda shameful for a Liverpool fan to do it really.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9973 on: June 5, 2018, 01:42:10 pm »
Slightly worrying some people are more concerned with 'how it looks to people'

Some care way too much what rival fans say on Twitter or on their forums.

Offline Giono

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9974 on: June 5, 2018, 01:43:12 pm »
Going by some of the posts you see on here you would not believe some people are 'suppporters' of Liverpool Football Club for a second

Slightly worrying some people are more concerned with 'how it looks to people' than the much bigger issue of a serious injury being massively overlooked by the official supposedly in charge of the game

Exactly. All this macho talk about a head injury...yet...

If we as a club have balls...we keep him. I was indifferent before, but the more I read cry babies worried about how crap looks to others the more I want us to keep him!
« Last Edit: June 5, 2018, 01:45:37 pm by Giono »
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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9975 on: June 5, 2018, 01:43:50 pm »
Oh god, stop replying to it :D
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline M_B

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9976 on: June 5, 2018, 01:44:06 pm »
I would trust Klopp on this, if he makes Karius number one next season then so be it.

Yes I would agree with you there. I am just giving my opinion obviously.

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9977 on: June 5, 2018, 01:47:23 pm »
Some care way too much what rival fans say on Twitter or on their forums.

To extreme levels.

The worrying thing is the least discussed thing in this whole situation is the elbow in the face and the reaction to this news coming out shows how little concussion is viewed as a serious matter in the sport

Offline Djozer

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9978 on: June 5, 2018, 01:53:39 pm »
He's a liability because he will be targeted by every crowd in the Premiership and every team will want to test his confidence. He's a liability because if Klopp continues him as number 1, then another mistake of that magnitude will not be Karius's fault, but the fault of the manager for playing him. He's a liability because every mistake he makes from now on will be over analyzed and if his already heavily brusied confidence goes South one month into the season then we can wave goodbye to any title challenge. And yes he's a liability because frankly he just isn't that good.

Just loan him out and replace him. If he does well on loan then he can come back to fight for a place, but to continue him as first choice keeper is a gamble we have no need to take.
Depends though, doesn't it? It's a gamble sure, but everything in football is a gamble to some degree. I think he's a good keeper and would be quite hard to improve on - maybe you don't. Oblak and Alisson are the only definite upgrades I can see out there that are potentially attainable, and even then their clubs might decide not to sell or the players themselves might simply decide they don't want to come. It's not like we're looking to replace Brad Jones, where just about any Premiership keeper would be better (no offence to any Brad Jones fans intended). I don't think replacing Karius would be anywhere near as easy as you seem to believe.

I agree that he will probably targeted by opposition fans, but fuck them. If it negatively affects his confidence we'll have a problem, but maybe it'll just make him more determined? Hard to say, without being privy to the inside workings of his mind, which neither of us are. At a guess, conversations between him and Klopp are ongoing with regards to Karius' mental readiness or otherwise, and it's possible the release of this medical statement came as a result of those discussions. There are, of course, no guarantees, but if Klopp and the player are happy with his mental state and are willing to go into next season then I have no problem at all with it.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9979 on: June 5, 2018, 01:55:36 pm »
On the idea of his defence no longer trusting him, I have 2 questions.

Imagine the most important game you played in your mate took a whack on the head, maybe you didn't even notice at the time as it happened so fast and you only find this out later. Then had a howler of a game costing you the most important game you have played in. You are fucking pissed off with him so much so you cannot even go up to him after the game even though he is in tears. Fuck that guy.

Then after the game you find out he had a concussion for half the game which caused the errors.
1. How would you feel about your own thoughts and actions on gaining this knowledge.
2. Would you have faith in your mate once again in the future, or is that still gone?

Because I think the answer to this question reflects on our own knowledge and understanding of concussions and in how empathic we are as people. If people hear this news and still think poorly of Karius, it likely means people lack either understanding or empathy, maybe both. Sutton sounds like he eats clubs because he hasn't quite worked out that they are to be used for hunting yet, for example. So I fully understand his stance on this.

I think the players at the club will be fully aware of concussions. If not, they soon will be. And given how the right personality is one of the most building blocks of this team, I think there will be no lack of empathy for Karius from his well informed team mates come the start of pre-season training.
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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9980 on: June 5, 2018, 01:58:54 pm »
What? I was asked to explain why I thought he was a liability, so I did.

Whoever asked you to explain anything is regretting that mistake I am sure.
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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9981 on: June 5, 2018, 01:59:37 pm »
Did you not notice that every tiny little thing he did last season was micro-analised by people (including plenty here) who wanted to find anything to use as ammunition to critise him? That's nothing new. He's had to live with that since his first few weeks here. Will it be worse? Probably. But throwing out the phrase 'he's a liability' as fact doesn't actually make him one.  And it's kinda shameful for a Liverpool fan to do it really.

Well said mate. He or any player is only a liability if he puts us at a disadvantage. The guy seems a really strong person who could cope with hostile crowds, and let's face it he won't be the first pantomime villain for opposition fans. Karius showed he was a fine keeper before Kiev and I for one hope that Jurgen keeps faith with him for next season.

Offline M_B

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9982 on: June 5, 2018, 02:04:34 pm »
Depends though, doesn't it? It's a gamble sure, but everything in football is a gamble to some degree. I think he's a good keeper and would be quite hard to improve on - maybe you don't. Oblak and Alisson are the only definite upgrades I can see out there that are potentially attainable, and even then their clubs might decide not to sell or the players themselves might simply decide they don't want to come. It's not like we're looking to replace Brad Jones, where just about any Premiership keeper would be better (no offence to any Brad Jones fans intended). I don't think replacing Karius would be anywhere near as easy as you seem to believe.

I agree that he will probably targeted by opposition fans, but fuck them. If it negatively affects his confidence we'll have a problem, but maybe it'll just make him more determined? Hard to say, without being privy to the inside workings of his mind, which neither of us are. At a guess, conversations between him and Klopp are ongoing with regards to Karius' mental readiness or otherwise, and it's possible the release of this medical statement came as a result of those discussions. There are, of course, no guarantees, but if Klopp and the player are happy with his mental state and are willing to go into next season then I have no problem at all with it.

Thanks for the constructive reply.

I agree that if Klopp and the backroom team judge Karius sufficiently competent to be LFC keeper long term then fair enough. They are the managers of the risk and if they are prepared to accept that then fair enough. They will gain the plaudits or criticism of that decision.

However if they have any doubts at all, now is the time to look for a replacement. From someone outside looking in, I would attempt to remove that risk, but that's just my opinion.


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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9983 on: June 5, 2018, 02:10:59 pm »
Whoever asked you to explain anything is regretting that mistake I am sure.

Apparently not as he took time to reply to me. Not everyone is as quick to throw around playground insults.

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9984 on: June 5, 2018, 02:13:51 pm »

 The speculation won't stop until we kick off the first game of the season, and I expect Karius will play. I hope it's at home, and the Kop shows the lad some love.
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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9985 on: June 5, 2018, 02:17:10 pm »
So he's had concussion for two years then. You'd a thought someone would of picked up on that by now.
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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9986 on: June 5, 2018, 02:18:53 pm »
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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9987 on: June 5, 2018, 02:19:21 pm »
So he's had concussion for two years then. You'd a thought someone would of picked up on that by now.

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Offline Djozer

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9988 on: June 5, 2018, 02:19:45 pm »
Thanks for the constructive reply.

I agree that if Klopp and the backroom team judge Karius sufficiently competent to be LFC keeper long term then fair enough. They are the managers of the risk and if they are prepared to accept that then fair enough. They will gain the plaudits or criticism of that decision.

However if they have any doubts at all, now is the time to look for a replacement. From someone outside looking in, I would attempt to remove that risk, but that's just my opinion.
That all seems fair mate, and cheers for explaining your thought processes. Think I'd suggest that stating "Karius is a liability" was a touch unfair to the guy, but maybe we're just arguing semantics here and you have every right to your opinion. I'd argue that there are always going to be doubts about any player so you can never remove them entirely, but agree that there will be more surrounding Karius (at least externally) than most.

We're almost certainly going to be looking for a new keeper anyway, with Mignolet and Ward likely moving on, but I suppose the question is what level of keeper will we be going for? I certainly wouldn't say no to Alisson or someone of that level, but I personally wouldn't be desperate for said upgrade if the management and the player himself are happy with his psychological readiness for first team football next season. As I think I've said, I'm one of those who was really quite happy with how he looked from January onwards (except the final!), and I'm also one of those who had doubts about his ability during the early part of his career here. He definitely won me over, and I'm hoping he continues to do just that.

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9989 on: June 5, 2018, 02:22:19 pm »


you shouldn't have wasted such a cool gif on such a twattish post  :P

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9990 on: June 5, 2018, 02:24:01 pm »
So he's had concussion for two years then. You'd a thought someone would of picked up on that by now.
Subpar medical staff, mate. Heard a rumour that all that beautiful golden hair makes it difficult to do the regular trepanning sessions required to accurately diagnose and treat concussion too, so they just ended up not bothering.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9991 on: June 5, 2018, 02:28:12 pm »
If by "some people" you mean "a leading expert on traumatic brain injuries, concussion, and other neurological disorders having authored more than 300 peer-reviewed journal articles, abstracts and book chapters on these subjects and has cared for athletes of all ages for more than 20 years" then yes. "Some people" are making this claim. The very people who are qualified to make that claim rendering whatever anybody whose knowledge and experience on the subject matter is effectively nil has to say utterly redundant.

Opinions are not of equal value. Just as the most popular opinion isn't necessarily the right one. In this instance, there is the qualified & educated opinion. Then there is the noisy rhetoric. It's basically the flat earth debate - science vs ignorance. You cannot present both sides of this as if they are equally plausible because they aren't. One is an opinion supported by medical tests performed by the leading person in carrying out such tests in the world to determine the thing that is being discussed. The other is unsubstantiated nonsense. Uninformed dribble. It's bollocks, basically.

Maybe the earth is flat, maybe it's round - These opinions are not of equal value either.

Then you have slipped into the other accepted wisdom - that the only solution to Ramos' shithousery is for someone to "stick one on him" during the world cup. Because the only thing violent arseholes understand is violence, right? But then if we are praying for more violence, are we on the violent arsehole side of that argument ourselves? And if we are, is it possible we can take a step back and ask if there is a possible solution to these problems where more violence isn't the solution?

One idea, for example, would be to have rules that specifically outlaw such violence. Then punish those who ignore those rules somehow. Maybe even go a step further and appoint neutral person(s) to be on the field to responsibly implement these rules. Then perhaps have some sort of oversight on the field, someone monitoring the performance of that person while also making him aware of anything that he may have missed. Stuff like that might work better than going back to an old testament eye for an eye system of resolving problems. As Martin Luther King said, "The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."

As for everything else you said. It's just more opinion dressed up as fact. And as we have already discussed above, those opinions are based on bollocks.

Outstanding post mate which all comes back to a significant portion of contemporary society's issue with expertise and experts

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9992 on: June 5, 2018, 02:30:30 pm »


Oooh I like that gif, might make its way into my top ten

Shit post to reply though
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9993 on: June 5, 2018, 02:33:52 pm »
I'm not sure there's any downside to all this becoming public - certainly for Karius whose stock was as low as it could be in the immediate aftermath of the final.
There's also the context of the final to consider too. He comes off at 0-0 and its the second player that Ramos has fouled out of the game, maybe he didn't want Ramos to have the satisfaction of adding the keeper to the top scorer.
If he goes off then he's replaced by Mignolet in the final - so perhaps he stays on the pitch because he has to.

As it turned out, staying on was perhaps the worst outcome of all, so anything that helps his rehabilitation either with or away from us has to be a good thing.

As for the likes of Sutton - what do they actually add? To anything? He's probably still in denial over the effects of heading water sodden leather balls. He probably can't process something like concussion on the pitch.

Offline Dench57

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9994 on: June 5, 2018, 02:36:35 pm »
If he goes off then he's replaced by Mignolet in the final - so perhaps he stays on the pitch because he has to.

Oh Simon  :(
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Offline artanis

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9995 on: June 5, 2018, 02:40:46 pm »
He's a liability because he will be targeted by every crowd in the Premiership and every team will want to test his confidence. He's a liability because if Klopp continues him as number 1, then another mistake of that magnitude will not be Karius's fault, but the fault of the manager for playing him. He's a liability because every mistake he makes from now on will be over analyzed and if his already heavily brusied confidence goes South one month into the season then we can wave goodbye to any title challenge. And yes he's a liability because frankly he just isn't that good.

Just loan him out and replace him. If he does well on loan then he can come back to fight for a place, but to continue him as first choice keeper is a gamble we have no need to take.

Let me take a stab at this!
So let’s compare to this attitude:
Someone’s girlfriend is sexually assaulted. Maybe drugged first. Intercourse happens. The boyfriend then berrates her, calls her all sorts of things. Then truth comes out and all he can say is “well it may have been assault and drugs, but what will people say?”

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9996 on: June 5, 2018, 02:42:08 pm »
So he's had concussion for two years then. You'd a thought someone would of picked up on that by now.

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Offline MobileBayRed

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9997 on: June 5, 2018, 02:44:24 pm »
On the idea of his defence no longer trusting him, I have 2 questions.

Imagine the most important game you played in your mate took a whack on the head, maybe you didn't even notice at the time as it happened so fast and you only find this out later. Then had a howler of a game costing you the most important game you have played in. You are fucking pissed off with him so much so you cannot even go up to him after the game even though he is in tears. Fuck that guy.

Then after the game you find out he had a concussion for half the game which caused the errors.
1. How would you feel about your own thoughts and actions on gaining this knowledge.
2. Would you have faith in your mate once again in the future, or is that still gone?

Because I think the answer to this question reflects on our own knowledge and understanding of concussions and in how empathic we are as people. If people hear this news and still think poorly of Karius, it likely means people lack either understanding or empathy, maybe both. Sutton sounds like he eats clubs because he hasn't quite worked out that they are to be used for hunting yet, for example. So I fully understand his stance on this.

I think the players at the club will be fully aware of concussions. If not, they soon will be. And given how the right personality is one of the most building blocks of this team, I think there will be no lack of empathy for Karius from his well informed team mates come the start of pre-season training.

Players on a team will make the decision to trust him based on who he is on a daily basis in training, in the meeting rooms, and on the pitch.  It won't be based on one game.  Lovren had a nightmare against Tottenham this season and nobody on the team appeared to get down on him.  You don't earn or lose respect for a teammate based on a few seconds of play.  It happens over a sustained period of time based on work habits, character, and ability.
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Offline M_B

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9998 on: June 5, 2018, 02:44:32 pm »
Let me take a stab at this!
So let’s compare to this attitude:
Someone’s girlfriend is sexually assaulted. Maybe drugged first. Intercourse happens. The boyfriend then berrates her, calls her all sorts of things. Then truth comes out and all he can say is “well it may have been assault and drugs, but what will people say?”

No really, I think a different analogy is needed. Comparing player performance to rape is possibly one of the most bizarre things I have read.

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Re: Current injury updates? not a transfer speculation thread
« Reply #9999 on: June 5, 2018, 02:48:21 pm »
No really, I think a different analogy is needed. Comparing player performance to rape is possibly one of the most bizarre things I have read.

While I agree it is the wrong analogy for him to use, if it helps you see that blaming/punishing the victim is inherently wrong, then some good will have come from it.
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