Topic: Injury news only thread. *

[Daniel Cabbaggio]

Why the fuck hasnt there been a peep from Uefa from this? Would it have taken Karius to have swallowed his tongue or something for them to charge him?

It boggles my mind it honestly does, its not sour grapes or bitterness, it's just, all the evidence is right there. Ya cannot miss it. If it was a Liverpool player I would have fully expected him to be charged later on as soon as I saw that incident. I mean its so fucking blatant.

[Jambo Power]

Kaveh Solhekol
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I was suffering from concussion last summer when I said Manchester United were close to signing Antoine Griezmann

It's shit like this, why would you banter about something like that?  Just terrible.

I think its called a joke.....if everything is so sterile what's the point?

[Dr. Beaker]

and the bonus is we'd get a new keeper;-)

Of course - we need a keeper who can come out of his box.

[rafathegaffa83]

Kaveh Solhekol
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I was suffering from concussion last summer when I said Manchester United were close to signing Antoine Griezmann

It's shit like this, why would you banter about something like that?  Just terrible.

Pathetic attempt at 'banter' that trivializes concussion from someone who should know better

[BabuYagu]

Why the fuck hasnt there been a peep from Uefa from this? Would it have taken Karius to have swallowed his tongue or something for them to charge him?

It boggles my mind it honestly does, its not sour grapes or bitterness, it's just, all the evidence is right there. Ya cannot miss it. If it was a Liverpool player I would have fully expected him to be charged later on as soon as I saw that incident. I mean its so fucking blatant.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/vXhSFv9dAEY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/vXhSFv9dAEY</a>

Red card and 4 games ban.

Ramos performs MMA on Salah and gives Karius a concussion - not even a foul given against him in the entire game never mind a card or suspension.

[BabuYagu]

Pathetic attempt at 'banter' that trivializes concussion from someone who should know better

That's unfair. He works for Sky. Expecting them to know anything at all, not to mention have integrity is ridiculous. It's clear that all their sports news is just made up on the spot by people whose opinions are either unqualified or spoon fed to them to drive ratings.

[elbow]

Here in Australia, they take concussion very seriously for AFL/Aussie Rules. Mind you the actual game itself involves getting smashed in the head several times a minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BAaCBC1V1Q

[decisivemoment]

The football authorities are so damned corrupt. You think the FA are bad and UEFA are so much worse, and FIFA are horrible in a different way. But UEFA are particularly invested into the idea of the most connected clubs getting a pass from everyone else's rules. It stinks to high heaven.

And "fans" of other teams are claiming VVD pushed Ramos into Karius. Unless I'm missing something, VVD barely touches Ramos and Ramos lashes his elbow into Karius.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Not that i'm a professional or have been anywhere near to that level haha but I have continued playing a game after being knocked out. It would take a lot to get me off the pitch, either feeling not myself at all and feeling as though i couldn't continue at all or being told something terrifying as a potential consequence but outside of that i'd say anything to stay on and assured the manager i was fine. Worrying and obviously stupid but when you love playing at any opportunity you get and that's coupled with a lack of knowledge of the finer details of the severity of things like a concussion, its a dangerous mixture that could end terribly

Players will always want to stay and play, if they're worth their salt. But that's not always the right decision. Similarly, not every head contact results in concussion, so we can't be removing everyone all of the time. But for those who exhibit even the slightest signs of concussion, there's no real, ethical alternative than to take them off the field and keep them safe, even if it all comes to nothing. People who disagree should search on YouTube for "Second Impact Syndrome" and see the devastating effects of being hit again soon after initial concussive impact. It's heartbreaking to watch some of the stories.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I was knocked out once playing a match as I was accidentally hit on the side of my head.

I played on but I remember that it was like running through treacle and I was slow to see the ball. It was a bit like a dream and although I knew what I was doing, it didn't seem real and I was numb. I probably had concussion and in those days you just went home with a sore head.

We really need to ask UEFA what they will do about it. Ask them to review the video replays and they will have to admit that it was blatant and deliberate. They then must act to show that this type of cheating is not acceptable.

Suarez was banned for 4 months for doing something that wasn't a career ending act; Ramos's elbow could have resulted in serious injury and so it deserves at least a 4 month ban and then some.

I had a similar experience playing in some mini-tournament. Although not with elbow, but he hit me with his forehead behind my head, and i was fucked during the rest of the game.

[leroy]

I wrote my initial reply in response to people blaming the club, I went too far saying it was a PR stunt and should have kept that to myself.

So you do think Karius and the yank doctors are lying... you just think you shouldn't have said it.  Rightio.

The guy who got hit in the head - he didn't have concussion - but even if he did he should recognise it and react in a specific manner.  However doctors cant even prove concussion... it's just an opinion.

Forget half cocked mate you've gone the full hog.  It's possible to say that no one except Ramos and the games protocols are in the wrong here.

1. Ramos was a c*nt <- Blame apportioned
2. Officials & medical staff do not see the impact (potentially) <- No blame apportioned
3. Karius didn't recognise the concussion but complains to the referee that he was struck in the head with an elbow <- I would say that's a reasonable reaction.  Referee does not show any concern so there is again nothing for Karius to feed off there.  Potential refereeing & protocol failure there.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I had a similar experience playing in some mini-tournament. Although not with elbow, but he hit me with his forehead behind my head, and i was fucked during the rest of the game.

Brings a whole new meaning to "Penetration, Width and Depth"...

[alvaro]

Since a player that played for my local hockey club passed away due to the lingering effects of a concussion he sustained earlier on in his career, I'm a bit more sensitive to the subject than most. It doesn't matter whether the hit caused Karius to concede the goals he did, it doesn't matter if it affected the final or whether Ramos should be punished, what's important is that concussions are treated correctly. The next time this happens the player should be brought off, maybe the player should ask to be taken off, maybe the refs or the medical team should notice something's off, but there is no way he should be on the field after taking a hit to the head.

Sorry for that mate.  I agree with you, the major problem is that football keeps handling concussions horribly and that severely endangers the players.
What happened to the plan of giving teams an extra sub if its for a possible concussion? It doesnt fix everything but its a first step.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Brings a whole new meaning to "Penetration, Width and Depth"...

 

[joekim87]

I follow rugby league and in the NRL, they have this concussion test called the HIA. They take the player off for fifteen minutes and make an assessment if they are okay to continue. Of course there are a lot more collisions in rugby and substitutions work differently but perhaps something like this needs to be considered in football as well?

[rkgriffin]

The truth is that none of us know really what has happened between the end of that game and now.

We don’t know of Karius had been complaining of symptoms after the match, while on holiday, etc. we don’t know if it was the club or Karius that asked to be checked out.

But I have the feeling that even if Klopp came out and said it was the club some of you would just say it is PR. Just make sure you state it as your opinion and stop going on and on about why your opinion must be right.

This is a football forum and it is the place to have debates etc but we need to stop stating opinions like they are some sort of fact. We all have no clue what the truth is on most things related to the club.

As for Karius, my “opinion” is that while it does smell of PR I am not sure it is from his camp at all or he  is a damn good actor and has a slimy agent.  I think his girlfriend is from California so going to the east coast first just for a PR stunt seems a bit much.

I am sure he will be with the club next year and I am happy for him to be as starter or backup to a world class keeper. 

[Lycan]

The cynic in me thinks the leaking of this story means the clubs stance is that Karius only made those mistakes because he had concussion and therefore we don't see the need to spend shitloads of money on a top keeper.

Wouldn't surprise me if we just ended up signing someone like Jack Butland now to compete for the number one spot with Karius.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I follow rugby league and in the NRL, they have this concussion test called the HIA. They take the player off for fifteen minutes and make an assessment if they are okay to continue. Of course there are a lot more collisions in rugby and substitutions work differently but perhaps something like this needs to be considered in football as well?

In football can be much easier. Just ban that c*nt of a man called Ramos, for 20 games.

[sms1986]

The cynic in me thinks the leaking of this story means the clubs stance is that Karius only made those mistakes because he had concussion and therefore we don't see the need to spend shitloads of money on a top keeper.

Wouldn't surprise me if we just ended up signing someone like Jack Butland now to compete for the number one spot with Karius.

You say leaking as if this wouldn't have become public knowledge otherwise. If Klopp thinks we need a new keeper, he'll buy one.

[Lycan]

You say leaking as if this wouldn't have become public knowledge otherwise. If Klopp thinks we need a new keeper, he'll buy one.

I didn't say we wouldn't buy a new keeper. Just makes me think we won't be signing a top GK. As I said, it'll probably be someone else a lot cheaper than Allisson or Oblak. Someone like Butland.

[sms1986]

I didn't say we wouldn't buy a new keeper. Just makes me think we won't be signing a top GK. As I said, it'll probably be someone else a lot cheaper than Allisson or Oblak. Someone like Butland.

I trust Klopp when it comes to transfers, he'll not buy just anyone.

[Lycan]

I trust Klopp when it comes to transfers, he'll not buy just anyone.

Well, we'll see.

But don't be surprised if Karius is starting in goal for us next season.

[BabuYagu]

One of my favourite people in the world is this guy.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/8R8ri4q36KQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/8R8ri4q36KQ</a>

I watch those Fine Bros "try not to laugh" challenge videos with my daughter and discovered him. Been rooting for him to make it in the big leagues ever since as he is trying to keep the fun in the sport which is often missed these days. I discovered today that he had a concussion recently. It was an interesting read in light of the news on Karius today.



MESA, Ariz. – Catcher Taylor Davis, a longtime minor-leaguer who debuted with the Cubs last September, has been shut down the last week because of a concussion suffered when hit by a foul tip during live batting practice.

The popular Davis only began regular daily activities, such as walking outside and eating a normal lunch, Wednesday, five days after being injured. As for when he’ll return to the field, “I have no idea,” he said. “That’s all out of my hands. I’m just thankful I feel better. [On Wednesday], I felt like a human being again.”

“I’ve gotten hit in the face before – I’m a catcher,” he said. “I’ve been hit in the head.”

He didn’t think much of it at first and prepared for that afternoon’s game. But then didn’t feel well.

“I’m thankful I said something,” he said, “because the next couple of days were tough. I haven’t had anything like this.

“I’m just thankful I feel better.”

[hesbighesred]

And Chris the c### Sutton believes it should have been kept under wraps because it could just be an excuse for the mistakes

Jesus wept.... There's really no hope left in this sport

I really don't get that line of thinking. It should be kept under wraps because people *might* think it's an excuse, as opposed to people *definitely* giving Karius dog's abuse as it stands?

[sms1986]

Well, we'll see.

But don't be surprised if Karius is starting in goal for us next season.

Why would I be?

[dangerpuss]

I really don't get that line of thinking. It should be kept under wraps because people *might* think it's an excuse, as opposed to people *definitely* giving Karius dog's abuse as it stands?

Chris Sutton is a horrible individual. He wants to be able to abuse players without appearing to be a horrible c*** therefore players should shut up and stop being human.

[LiverpoolKopKings]

Honestly, what good will come out of this. Ramos should have been sent off before kick off for being ramos, but he wasn't due to whatever. Karius's seasonal performance was always hinting at a very probably five minute window into which he shits his own mind, and the happenings where in line with that.

We will support him whatever the case, since he's a red, but let's put this to bed and move on.

[sms1986]

We will support him whatever the case, since he's a red, but let's put this to bed and move on.

Yeah, we'll have success in the upcoming seasons with this team that Klopp is building.

[Lycan]

Why would I be?

O.K

[IanZG]

I'm not in an even remotely similar position to you and sorry to hear you've seen that, its horrible that kind of thing can happen.

Although punishment is no where near the magnitude of the injury itself and what could follow, don't you think its important (punishment) as it could act as a deterrent for this kind of thing happening again in the future, even if its just that player initially... it sets a precedent that it wont be tolerated.

I definitely agree, there should be punishment, but the priority should be getting the player off the pitch as soon as it happens, everything else can be done later.

Given the Lloris incident before, perhaps there should be a team neutral professional at games who diagnosis this and indicates players to be removed from the field, even allowing an additional substitution to do so. I think WelshRed mentioned before there is something like this in rugby?

What you're suggesting is quite similar to what the NHL implemented, they have a committee which can take a player out of the game if he shows signs of concussion. It's much easier to implement in hockey because of the infinite number of substitutions there, but I can see a possibility for introducing it into football. The issue is that concussions are less often in football so it's probably not seen as a priority, but in my (biased) opinion it should be.

[stevied]

Why didn’t our medical team on the night think to check him out for it or Karius himself say to the team there might be an issue , we only used 2 subs , I don’t think it’s a PR thing I’m more than confident that the medical team in the USA found some sort of trauma that relates to concussion it’s a shame it wasn’t picked up at 0-0 , we move on

[Redcap]

Well, we'll see.

But don't be surprised if Karius is starting in goal for us next season.

That's quite a bit better than Butland? I think whoever we buy, at minimum they would be required to play the same style as Karius, so as to not require us to change our style to accommodate them.

[northern Monkey]

Ive never tried to do anything intense or stressful right after a concussion but then.. anything like that was the last thing I wanted to do when it happened to me..

While offering mitigating circumstances to 'those goals' it does also ask/reinforce a couple of questions for me.

Why are we so "nice"?
Why weren't our own medical staff more concerned?

No much we can do about Uefa being c*nts and so on but these are questions we can and I think should ask ourselves in the aftermath.

We don't make a big deal of the elbow.  One of our players did that to the Madrid keeper... There's hysterical rolling and flailing on the floor like a fish out of water and their players are mobbing the ref.  Ours... Nothing.  Now I don't like to see this sort of player intimidation in general but in this instance, it's about protecting one of ours and having his back.  Yes I'm taking a bit of a "can't beat them, Join them" mindset to this but keepers are generally over protected.. if ours is being targeted with no recourse we absolutely should be all over it.  Probably doesn't change the refs decision there and then but it maybe makes Ramos have to think twice about his shithousery if he is being called out on it and has it more forward in the refs mind.  We just accept it as part of the game and move on.  We don't resort to these shithousery twactics but neither do we call out our opponents for engaging in them enough in my opinion.

Secondly our medical team.  And I'm not saying ours is alone in this within the sport by any means.. head collisions happen a lot in football and we have happily ignored the goings on about concussions in other sports.  Perhaps because the collisions arent as quite as common and are spread out more (ie any one player probably suffers less head collisions than players in those other sports) but perhaps we (and other teams and authorities of course) need to start taking this sort of incident more seriously?

We could have subbed in an experienced keeper. Not the place to discuss merits of each keeper or what ifs re Mignolet but we could have.  If we are now saying the concussion was a factor in affecting Karius health and performance, we SHOULD have done so.  If Karius claims to be fine etc etc and we believe him that's then back on him but our medical team should be strongly asking the question.

Now I'm not trying to retrospectively say this person should have done that or point fingers about the match, I'm not interested in a fall guy.. I just believe we should be learning lessons in the back of it for going forward.

[Carra-ton]

I so hope that Karius has a redemption story with Liverpool. Man deserves it. This will make him stronger no doubt. Hope LFC and Klopp give him the support he needs.
It is why I feel that there is no point in getting Alisson, Oblak is on another plane, but Karius has potential to be just as good or better than Alisson.
Spend that money elsewhere, and give Karius a second chance.

[Something Worse]

UEFA reviewed the blatant assault on Karius and deemed it wasn't worthy of any action as it was Ramos and he plays for Real Madrid. Ramos' WWE move on Salah wasn't even reviewed as Ramos had done it before in the previous year's Final, so it must be allowed.
Seriously, Karius must have been affected by a violent elbow to the head but does it explain his mistakes? Who knows, but it does bring into question how Ramos got away with it.

Both WWE moves, as you can see

[Zoomers]

I'd like us to just forget that game, it was a fucking shitshow and the sooner we forget about it the better.

I must say tho, before the final, I was rooting for Karius to be our number 1 keeper for next season. Didn't like what I saw in the final but it might have been due to this shit. Klopp has a big decision on his hands, take the risk and go ahead with Karius? Or bring in a proven keeper by paying big?

[CraigDS]

Karius's seasonal performance was always hinting at a very probably five minute window into which he shits his own mind, and the happenings where in line with that.

Well that's simply not true.

[RogerTheRed]

Should the club do something official if they requested the examination? Not sure what like but at least place the findings at UEFA door.

[Dave D]

Why didn’t our medical team on the night think to check him out for it or Karius himself say to the team there might be an issue , we only used 2 subs , I don’t think it’s a PR thing I’m more than confident that the medical team in the USA found some sort of trauma that relates to concussion it’s a shame it wasn’t picked up at 0-0 , we move on

It's not just any old medical team in the US.

Dr. Ross D. Zafonte is a leading expert on traumatic brain injuries, concussion, and other neurological disorders having authored more than 300 peer-reviewed journal articles, abstracts and book chapters on these subjects and has cared for athletes of all ages for more than 20 years. He is the chief of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation at Massachusetts General Hospital and Brigham and Women’s Hospital, as well as vice president of Medical Affairs Research and Education at Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital.  Dr. Zafonte is the also principal investigator of the Football Players Health Study at Harvard Medical School where he is the Earle P. and Ida S. Charlton Professor and Chairman of the Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation.

The comments by people about this being a PR stunt are an absolute disgrace. I can't believe some of them still haven't been taken down yet.

If some people think that this makes Liverpool's medical staff look incompetent at best and negligent at worst, so be it.

[Something Worse]

Should the club do something official if they requested the examination? Not sure what like but at least place the findings at UEFA door.

Like what? Get Ramos banned? Why bother, it won't help us at all.