Topic: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Don't be assuming Napoli's paying full wages for Reina or Skrtel. There's a very good chance it's around 50 percent for Pepe, Martin I haven't checked up on yet.

If you want to run a football club that rises to the top, there shouldn't be any 'savings' anyway, but more effective distribution. See that latter part, we'll observe what they have in store for us, or whether they 'redistribute' at all.

[walshys_mullet]

Sturridge?

Again i think we were fortunate. Sturridge wasnt playing, and no one in the top four needed a striker at the time. Maybe Spurs would have been interested, but certainly, he'd already been at City and lost his place, Chelsea the same, United didnt need him, nor Arsenal.

[walshys_mullet]

Don't be assuming Napoli's paying full wages for Reina or Skrtel. There's a very good chance it's around 50 percent for Pepe, Martin I haven't checked up on yet.

If you want to run a football club that rises to the top, there shouldn't be any 'savings' anyway, but more effective distribution. See that latter part, we'll observe what they have in store for us, or whether they 'redistribute' at all.

has Skrtel gone or have i missed something?

[Johnnyboy1973]

I agree with you to a point. But theres an awful lot of youth in there, probably a bit too much.

But, you can't have it both ways. Not in our postion. If you want someone, mid twenties, then you would expect they are established by then.

So, why the fuck would they come here?

Young, maybe superstars or established players in lesser known leagues is where we have to shop imo.

If Sktrel is replaced by the 21 year old bubble - would you really be that disappointed?

[CraigDS]

If you want to run a football club that rises to the top, there shouldn't be any 'savings' anyway, but more effective distribution. See that latter part, we'll observe what they have in store for us, or whether they 'redistribute' at all.

If a club is making losses then there should be savings.

Spurs have already shown, with a £40m less wage bill per season, that you can rise to the top without spending our level of wages.

[CraigDS]

Again i think we were fortunate. Sturridge wasnt playing, and no one in the top four needed a striker at the time. Maybe Spurs would have been interested, but certainly, he'd already been at City and lost his place, Chelsea the same, United didnt need him, nor Arsenal.

Lucky with Coutinho. Lucky with Sturridge.

Not sure why we bother putting together a scouting department and committee to make the decisions then.

[CHOPPER]

Head lamps???!! What's wrong with candles I ask you?

Team bus can easily be replaced with a wheel barrow, Skrtel's a strong lad, I'm sure if we don't loan him out he could push it.

Sadly, we seem to be the only clued up ones who see the blue sky thinking thats required here after this bombshell release, solutions which offers real-life solutions to our real-life bereft bank balance problems....Alms for an leper!

Sit tight my friend and watch the World and European split hair champions do battle.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

has Skrtel gone or have i missed something?

Nope, just rumours so far.

[Always_A_Red]

That's all well and good as long as the money 'saved' on wages is then available to use for transfers. I think this time last year we were all saying that the sales of aquilani, maxi, bellamy & carroll (wages) would equate to c.£25m. Where is this money? Will we be asking the same things next season when players like Lucas, Agger, Suarez etc are offloaded to save the wage bills?

I trust they are doing it to put the club in a good position financially but just want to ensure its for the right reasons (i.e so we can spend it on the team) and not so the owners can make a few quid

[CraigDS]

That's all well and good as long as the money 'saved' on wages is then available to use for transfers. I think this time last year we were all saying that the sales of aquilani, maxi, bellamy & carroll (wages) would equate to c.£25m. Where is this money? Will we be asking the same things next season when players like Lucas, Agger, Suarez etc are offloaded to save the wage bills?

I trust they are doing it to put the club in a good position financially but just want to ensure its for the right reasons (i.e so we can spend it on the team) and not so the owners can make a few quid

We spent £30m net last summer, £20m odd in Jan, £3m so far this summer.

That could be some of the savings there.

[DangerScouse]

If a club is making losses then there should be savings.

Spurs have already shown, with a £40m less wage bill per season, that you can rise to the top without spending our level of wages.

"Rise to the top"?

They've played in the champions league once and look at them now, trophyless again and in the europa league, hardly a model we want to base ourselves on is it?

Let's just wait and see if the level of savings alluded to in the article are put to good use before we go praising FSG.  As Werner told us before we've the funds to compete with any club, i'm yet to see it.

[Samie]

If we sign Fiscal Mingebag the Glaswegian Right-Wing in the hole playmaker 'tongue like a pastie' - that will surely fit the clubs new model of buy low - pay low - just say no......And that tongue can lick a full sheet of stamps in one go.

My ideas to generate funds for the club are as follows

We should have a swear box. That would generate funds and save on wages.

Wages and Wags - biggest drain on our resources. Cut wages, ditch wags, its the future!

Breathing - breathing costs money and energy. Cut back breathing and we cut back on costs

Washing the kit - all players should take their own kit home and wash it and all the big shorts should be handed back into the manager before he names the team at the following game.

Tattoo's - All players to be tattooed with advertising so it saves on the leccy on the board round the ground. Plus when they're getting jumped by the Pap's in Cheshire down at their local laundrette washing their kit, they'll be advertising. More wonga!

Grass - tax it

Flood lights - get rid of them, tape torches to everyone's head.

Wages - don't pay them, its that simple

Fans - charge them more

Team bus - change it to a bus


What do ye think RAWK accuntants?.....I'm open to any other suggestions

Chopper for Chancellor. You'll get us out of this shit hole where in mate.

[Nessy76]

It's a nice idea but there isn't an endless supply of those players or a particularly copious one to be honest.

We don't need an endless supply of them. Half a dozen would be fine. We found two in one window, it can't be that hard.

[CraigDS]

"Rise to the top"?

They've played in the champions league once and look at them now, trophyless again and in the europa league, hardly a model we want to base ourselves on is it?

Well they are certainly an example of being on the way up, with a drastically lower wage bill than our own.

Long term maybe not, but they are certainly getting bang for their buck, which is what the aim should be. When teams above us can outspend and outpay us then we have to use our money wisely.

Let's just wait and see if the level of savings alluded to in the article are put to good use before we go praising FSG.  As Werner told us before we've the funds to compete with any club, i'm yet to see it.

Given if the spending wages and spending stayed how it was we'd be out of business right now with the losses we were making I think praise can be given for the lowering that has happened without compromising the level of the squad.

Agreed as it gets down to the harder decisions, like the loss of the likes of Reina and Skrtel, it's important to see higher quality come in to replace them.

[SerbianScouser]

"Rise to the top"?

They've played in the champions league once and look at them now, trophyless again and in the europa league, hardly a model we want to base ourselves on is it?

Let's just wait and see if the level of savings alluded to in the article are put to good use before we go praising FSG.  As Werner told us before we've the funds to compete with any club, i'm yet to see it.

Its a great platform to build onto, they were in complete disarray when Redknapp took over, made a huge leap - at our expense too - with considerably less of a wage bill.  They are definitely the model of how we should get out of our slump.

[CraigDS]

We don't need an endless supply of them. Half a dozen would be fine. We found two in one window, it can't be that hard.

Possibly got one or two on the way from the Academy too.

[Eeyore]

If a club is making losses then there should be savings.

Spurs have already shown, with a £40m less wage bill per season, that you can rise to the top without spending our level of wages.

The massive flaw in your argument is that Spurs haven't paid off three managers and their staff since 2011 and don't have the madcap policy of loaning out players paying part of their wages and then going out and buying more players and paying them wages aswell. I am not sure how good FSG are at running a football club but I think they are brilliant at reducing pan European unemployment. We are in affect subsidising a fair chunk of the teams in Europe. They would also be brilliant at reducing immigration because you don't even have to move stay in Italy, France or Spain and we will pay part of your wages anyway.

We might well be reducing the wages of the people who manage or play for us but whilst we continue to pay people who don't manage or play for us we will continue to struggle to compete.

[Alf]

Maximise revenue, decrease costs, anyone would think the owners were trying to sell the club.

[Nessy76]

Possibly got one or two on the way from the Academy too.

Exactly, it's not all about buying players in, it's about developing our own, too.

[steveeastend]

I think this is a very shallow OP as it kind of puts the "wages paid" argument above anything else.

We, just like any other top club, have to pay high wages in order to attract top players as a foundation for the young ones to bring in. You need both, the experience and quality, and the talent.

There is nothing wrong with shipping the ones out Rodgers isn´t relying on and were kind of overpaid but I don´t believe for a single bit Rodgers will touch the ones important for our squad.

I think Skrtel will stay, he has to stay considering the circumstances and Downing probably as well for another season. Anything else would be a massive gamble.

[Nessy76]

The massive flaw in your argument is that Spurs haven't paid off three managers and their staff since 2011 and don't have the madcap policy of loaning out players paying part of their wages and then going out and buying more players and paying them wages aswell. I am not sure how good FSG are at running a football club but I think they are brilliant at reducing pan European unemployment. We are in affect subsidising a fair chunk of the teams in Europe. They would also be brilliant at reducing immigration because you don't even have to move stay in Italy, France or Spain and we will pay part of your wages anyway.

We might well be reducing the wages of the people who manage or play for us but whilst we continue to pay people who don't manage or play for us we will continue to struggle to compete.

Caulker? Smith? Mason? Luongo? Hall? Pritchard?

[TepidT2O]

Caulker? Smith? Mason? Luongo? Hall? Pritchard?

And recently Dos Santos.... But apart from all of them.....

[Funky_Gibbons]

And recently Dos Santos.... But apart from all of them.....

And Bentley.

So apart from Dos Santos, Caulker, Smith, Mason, Luongo, Hall and Pritchard who have Spurs ever loaned out?

[CHOPPER]

We might well be reducing the wages of the people who manage or play for us but whilst we continue to pay people who don't manage or play for us we will continue to struggle to compete.

Al, darling - until we get that euphemistic sugar daddy, we will always struggle to compete totally.


However, this is exactly why we have to get more bang for our buck and be shrewder, wise and sharper with what we do off the field and specifically with training, scouting and recruitment of the backroom and medical staff, than opposed to building a patchwork quilt team that having said sugar daddy, creates... we have to think harder, longer and have more foresight.

This is where we can make ground up and this year we will and you can quote me on that.

[SerbianScouser]

And Bentley.

So apart from Dos Santos, Caulker, Smith, Mason, Luongo, Hall and Pritchard who have Spurs ever loaned out?

Rose, Jenas ?

[walshys_mullet]

Lucky with Coutinho. Lucky with Sturridge.

Not sure why we bother putting together a scouting department and committee to make the decisions then.

Oh come on.

Do you seriously think if we were up against anyone of note we would have bagged them two the way we approach signings? The most competition we had for coutinho was soton, and even then some were crapping themselves whether we would get him.

We rely on a certain amount of integrity and willingness from a player in order to capture them, or a lack of quality competition for their signature. Because as you all acknowledge we won't pay over the odds on fees and wages.

Going forward we will pick up the right players but at a cost of time. We certainly won't be picking many of the cream. Its all just a case of whether we can achieve were we want to go in a quicker timeframe.

I have absolutely no problem with what fsg are doing with wages and getting rid of deadwood, as long as we keep improving, replacing our losses and bring depth to the squad.

For me we are still very light in depth and experience and I worry about that with oinly a few weeks left. Even if we get papa we do so at the cost of yet another player. Another loss of depth and experience.

[TitanTrigger]

And Bentley.

So apart from Dos Santos, Caulker, Smith, Mason, Luongo, Hall and Pritchard who have Spurs ever loaned out?

Gomes

[Juan Loco]

Personally think we got lucky with Coutinho. Right time and right conditions. but lets be honest those two factors very rarely occur, certainly not enough to sustain.

You don't need to sustain it to be fair. You need to do it once to get back into the positions to compete - Champions League. Then when you're there you make sure you don't fuck it up.

[LiverpoolForever]

And Bentley.

So apart from Dos Santos, Caulker, Smith, Mason, Luongo, Hall and Pritchard who have Spurs ever loaned out?

Rose.

[Red number seven]

The massive flaw in your argument is that Spurs haven't paid off three managers and their staff since 2011 and don't have the madcap policy of loaning out players paying part of their wages and then going out and buying more players and paying them wages aswell. I am not sure how good FSG are at running a football club but I think they are brilliant at reducing pan European unemployment. We are in affect subsidising a fair chunk of the teams in Europe. They would also be brilliant at reducing immigration because you don't even have to move stay in Italy, France or Spain and we will pay part of your wages anyway.

We might well be reducing the wages of the people who manage or play for us but whilst we continue to pay people who don't manage or play for us we will continue to struggle to compete.

I don't think it's a massive flaw at all; in fact it's the same argument.

We have been wasting money hand over fist for several years, and FSG are absolutely right to try to get a grip of that. Doesn't matter if it's ludicrous manager revolving doors, silly "free" signings you get stuck paing wages to for 5 years, or just players who are no better than decent on a superstar wage, it's all the same principle and it's critical to get value if we are ever going to compete again.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Rose, Jenas ?

Rose.

Gomes

[Nessy76]

OK, I think we can now expect to see a post from Al claiming that he didn't mean Spurs never loan players out at all, that was just what he said.

[Red number seven]

And Bentley.

So apart from Dos Santos, Caulker, Smith, Mason, Luongo, Hall and Pritchard who have Spurs ever loaned out?

Roads? Aqueducts?

[Funky_Gibbons]

Roads? Aqueducts?

Brought peace.

[SerbianScouser]

Kane, Townsend

[Eeyore]

And Bentley.

So apart from Dos Santos, Caulker, Smith, Mason, Luongo, Hall and Pritchard who have Spurs ever loaned out?

How many of those did they buy for big fees as first team regulars. Whilst we are loaning Reina out Brad Jones will be getting games for us, whilst we loaned out Aquilani we had the likes of Adam and Spearing playing for us and whilst Carroll was playing for West Ham we had Yesil pulling on a red shirt and all those massive wave savings have resulted in a pretty static wage bill its absolute madness.

[Acaustiq]

We don't need an endless supply of them. Half a dozen would be fine. We found two in one window, it can't be that hard.

It obviously is or everyone would be at it.

You can't base a transfer policy on these black swans, sooner or later you've got to put your hand in your pocket and (thanks to the position Dalglish and Comolli put us in) pay way over the odds for some market validated talent.

[Eeyore]

Al, darling - until we get that euphemistic sugar daddy, we will always struggle to compete totally.


However, this is exactly why we have to get more bang for our buck and be shrewder, wise and sharper with what we do off the field and specifically with training, scouting and recruitment of the backroom and medical staff, than opposed to building a patchwork quilt team that having said sugar daddy, creates... we have to think harder, longer and have more foresight.

This is where we can make ground up and this year we will and you can quote me on that.

  To be fair chops the sugar daddy bollocks is the biggest red herring ever. FFP stops owners from bankrolling unsustainable spending. The amount owners can pump in is being reduced season on season so it is for me a lame excuse. Chelsea for example have taken measures to comply with FFP they have offloaded older higher paid players and sold amortized players and invested in top notch young players on long contracts. Abramovich is now longer bankrolling them the way he did half a decade ago they are just being smarter than us and achieving more than us.

[LiverpoolForever]

  To be fair chops the sugar daddy bollocks is the biggest red herring ever. FFP stops owners from bankrolling unsustainable spending. The amount owners can pump in is being reduced season on season so it is for me a lame excuse. Chelsea for example have taken measures to comply with FFP they have offloaded older higher paid players and used sold amortized players and invested in top notch young players on long contracts. Abramovich is now longer bankrolling them the way he did half a decade ago they are just being smarter than us and achieving more than us.

So how are Monaco , PSG , Man City getting round the FFP then?

[conman]

I'm not sure if this data has been posted, as I haven't read all 5 pages. But before praising/criticizing FSG, we should be benchmarking ourselves against our competition.

"The Guardian's annual special report of Premier League clubs' finances shows they spent £1.6bn on wages last season, most of it to players. The wage bill accounted for 67% of clubs' turnover, a similar level to the two previous years – wages were 68% of income in 2009-10, and 69% in 2010-11."

Figures from 2011/2012
Relevant as FSG would have been working from these figures



http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt

Attachments: Turnover, Wages as Proportion of Turnover %, debt, premier league accounts, wage comparisons