Author Topic: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table  (Read 9437 times)

Offline StevenLFC

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Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« on: April 7, 2013, 08:10:40 pm »
Well, one of those 0-0 draws against a side we should beat. It's been a while hasn't it? It's almost nice to see one... Well not really, but still the fact that it's been a while shows our improvement against poorer sides I guess?

Brendan picked the right team for me, but Suarez had a really poor day and nobody really stepped up when he needed them to - fair or not?

Also, I thought the manager got the subs wrong. Downing's injury was key to us not clicking as an attack I reckon, and replacing him with Sturridge meant we had hardly any width at all with Coutinho looking to cut in off the left hand side. Personally I'd have liked to have seen Shelvey come on and Henderson go wide. Jordan isn't great there, but I think he'd try and keep the shape more than Sturridge did. I also thought replacing Henderson with Assaidi was odd. I understand Rodgers wanting to get some width, but with West Ham hardly looking to break from midfield, I think Lucas could have been taken off, and I wouldn't have picked Assaidi as replacement either. Having said that, I'm not the manager so what do I know?


Positives: I don't think you can question our will and desire to win the game, I just think the opposition defended well. Also, I thought we coped with their attack pretty well. We've really struggled against physical sides this year, but they hardly had a sniff.


Over to you guys....
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 10:53:35 am by Claire. »

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #1 on: April 7, 2013, 09:00:28 pm »
That was obviously a hugely frustrating match to watch - not least because we were rebuffed by a team whose tactics were dredged up from a primeval swamp. The ugly dredger, who goes by the name Fat 'Sam' Allardyce, is rightly disliked by most football supporters who prefer to see their favourite sport as a branch of art and not a substitute for mud-wrestling. Still, if we want to crow, if we want to feel genuinely superior, we have to defeat the shit that's put in front of us. We didn't . We drew.

As draws go it was - as already said - deeply frustrating. But it wasn't hopeless. Throughout the match I felt we were always a minute or so from scoring a goal. Our approach play was sensible and we recycled the ball pretty quickly every time the Hammers gifted it back to us with a hoof. There was none of the laboured, ponderous stuff that dogged most of Rafa's frustrating home draws a few seasons back. What we lacked, oddly, was finesse. How many players were guilty of poor first touches throughout the match? Almost everyone. It even began to affect Coutinho and Lucas who - along with Agger - were the only players in Red to emerge with any credit from this afternoon's game. *

Games like this, where a patently inferior side 'parks the bus' all afternoon, are no good for Henderson. Give him an empty pitch to attack and his qualities (speed on the ball and stupendous energy) come into play. Give him two lines of four to break through and he's pretty clueless. The lad still needs too many touches on the ball to get it 'just so' and once he's made up his mind on a certain course of action, jeez, he's gonna go through with it no matter what.

We need more ingenuity than that. Dare I say it, we needed Joe Allen. At half-time I wanted Coutinho to replace Henderson and Assaidi to take the left wing. I even broke a lifetime's habit and went in the 'half-time thread' to say so. One appalled poster said "thank God you're not in charge of the team". Well, news for you sonny, I am! Naturally, great minds think alike and Brendan eventually yanked off the Mackem and made the switch I'd called for.

It was a shit idea!

The pity was that Coutinho, after a bright ten minutes in the hole, started to fade (I think this might have been his first 90 minutes in Red?). Assaidi meanwhile showed he'd been spending too much time on the chest-expanders and too little playing your actual football.

Even so we wove a few nice moves and started hitting the byline. Still, it seemed to me, we would get that goal. Gerrard was pole-axed at one point inside the box. Normally when we appeal for a pen I have a little bloke in the corner of my brain who says 'Hold on. The baldy twat must do his pointy thing first'. This time I didn't bother. It was a pen, pure and simple. I started the celebration even without the ref....

A shite decision. If you can't get those right it means that all your other decisions must be open to doubt as well. Time to resign and try another trade.

No doubt there'll be some supporters saying 'where was our Plan B?' I'm not one of them. Plan A was good enough to beat the opposition. Even with five minutes to go it was good enough. Andy Carroll, had he played (for either side), wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the result.

*I'd say Pepe too. But Pepe had fuck all to do for 95 minutes, which says a lot about Fat 'Sam' and his approach to the game.





   
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Offline Garstonite

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #2 on: April 7, 2013, 09:02:45 pm »
Here's my tuppence and this may be viewed as a bit of a tangent but fuck it.

We need to get the fuck out of Anfield as soon as possible.  The fact people still label it as our "greatest selling point" shows just how fucked we are at the moment. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is my last year as a season-ticket holder. I'm passing my ticket on to somebody younger and more passionate about the Reds than I am. You'd think then, that I should be savouring every second remaining, but that place plonked in the middle of L4 is a fucking joke. Around me, the average age of fan is easily late-50s. Each and every last one of them is a moaning bastard who haven't got the faintest idea what they are ranting about and next year they will be paying £850 for the privilege. We've got fucking Tena Men adverts in the toilets. That speaks for itself. I mean, what the fuck?

There was a time when the clock ticking down on a 0-0 draw would spur the crowd on. And yes, there's an air of acceptance to this sort of shite now, but what is constructive about shouting abuse at a player for miscontrolling a pass or playing a ball to the opposition? There are some serious fucking psychological flaws with these people. They are either simply that dim or they gain some sadistic pleasure out of being frustrated. Meanwhile, you've got a kid on the way out with his Dad who says "at least I still haven't seen them beaten". Which, okay, is fucked up in its own sense, but this kid - aged probably about 11 or 12 - is probably referring to a catalogue of about five games he's been to. I know it's supply and demand, I know it's a business, but the whole thing is on its head. Anfield is a fucking shell of what it once was and every visit depresses the shite out of me more and more.

I don't really give much thought into FSG's "day-to-day involvement" or whether or not they have invested enough money in transfers. But what I do know is that a 9% increase for a shitty fucking seat to see sides managed by Sam Allardyce and other fucking yard-dog c*nts is taking so much piss every fucking Tena Men in the world wouldn't be able to hold it. Do you know what? If it's what it takes, share a ground with Everton. Do something. Because while we hold on to this rose-tinted vision into what it used to be like there's generations of kids who are sat watching shitty online streams while John Henry wipes his arse on twenty dollar bills paid for by the moaning twats and gloryhunters that have killed Liverpool's "greatest selling point".

Anyway, Rodgers and all that...

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #3 on: April 7, 2013, 10:04:46 pm »
That was obviously a hugely frustrating match to watch - not least because we were rebuffed by a team whose tactics were dredged up from a primeval swamp. The ugly dredger, who goes by the name Fat 'Sam' Allardyce, is rightly disliked by most football supporters who prefer to see their favourite sport as a branch of art and not a substitute for mud-wrestling. Still, if we want to crow, if we want to feel genuinely superior, we have to defeat the shit that's put in front of us. We didn't . We drew.

I love that you put the quotations on Sam and not Fat ;D

It's a terrible sight though, isn't it? I've always liked West Ham, for some reason. I knew nothing about them and it turns out their fans are a bit ... yeah. But as a club there's always been something appealing about them. One of my dad's friend lived in London so I guess his affection for them rubbed off on me through the years. He always talked about how he and others felt that they were the kind that would rather get relegated losing every game 4-7 than stay in the league on 25+ 0-0's. And I know he's not watched a game since they employed Fat Sam and is adamant he won't until he sees "the bloated undertaker" out of the door. It's sad that they've fallen to the ways of stubborn pragmatism at the expense of the game they play (sadly few thundercunts I have the misfortune of sharing a nationality with have played a big role in that). Hopefully the turn around Pochettino and Laudrup have shown this season will make owners across the league stop and wonder. I'm not holding my breath though.

As draws go it was - as already said - deeply frustrating. But it wasn't hopeless. Throughout the match I felt we were always a minute or so from scoring a goal. Our approach play was sensible and we recycled the ball pretty quickly every time the Hammers gifted it back to us with a hoof. There was none of the laboured, ponderous stuff that dogged most of Rafa's frustrating home draws a few seasons back. What we lacked, oddly, was finesse. How many players were guilty of poor first touches throughout the match? Almost everyone. It even began to affect Coutinho and Lucas who - along with Agger - were the only players in Red to emerge with any credit from this afternoon's game. *

Would include Enrique personally. He was storming up the left flank and had anyone showed up on the far post he'd have bagged double digits in assists. But as a whole the team was very disappointing. It wasn't the not delivering that got to me it was the repeated giving up. Johnson specifically was very bad in that regard. How many times did he cut inside and pass it backwards? Or take on the fullback and not get the ball into the box. He scored an absolute peach of a goal in the away fixture but he could've played on his own until next week and still not have gotten the ball into the back of the net with the way he was. Gerrard was unlucky I thought not to get a pen but was also schizophrenic in his decision making. He couldn't decide whether he was going to be the match winner or playmaker so he tried both and accomplished neither. He was always looking for that final pass but he was unconvincing, almost as if he was somehow looking for himself.

How solid was Agger in the defence though? He was winning aerial challenges, clearing the ball relentlessly and even had a goalbound block that would've made Carra swell up with pride. He showed real leadership today too, from the back. He was supporting his teammates, constantly feeding them the ball and then when the pressure got to them just said "fuck it, I'll do it myself then".

Games like this, where a patently inferior side 'parks the bus' all afternoon, are no good for Henderson. Give him an empty pitch to attack and his qualities (speed on the ball and stupendous energy) come into play. Give him two lines of four to break through and he's pretty clueless. The lad still needs too many touches on the ball to get it 'just so' and once he's made up his mind on a certain course of action, jeez, he's gonna go through with it no matter what.

We need more ingenuity than that. Dare I say it, we needed Joe Allen. At half-time I wanted Coutinho to replace Henderson and Assaidi to take the left wing. I even broke a lifetime's habit and went in the 'half-time thread' to say so. One appalled poster said "thank God you're not in charge of the team". Well, news for you sonny, I am! Naturally, great minds think alike and Brendan eventually yanked off the Mackem and made the switch I'd called for.

Henderson is in the make of the wave of #10's that the Serie A is going through in recent times. Boateng, Bradley, Vidal, Marchisio just to name a few have started in the place behind the striker. So far from the Rui Costas, Baggios and Kakas of the past. Sit deep, get the ball forward quickly and then have someone whose sheer athleticism allows him to attack the space and on form he won't be stopped. It worked a treat against Southampton in the goal Hendo scored, similarly he was terribly lost when he was given time on the ball.

It was a shit idea!

The pity was that Coutinho, after a bright ten minutes in the hole, started to fade (I think this might have been his first 90 minutes in Red?). Assaidi meanwhile showed he'd been spending too much time on the chest-expanders and too little playing your actual football.

Even so we wove a few nice moves and started hitting the byline. Still, it seemed to me, we would get that goal. Gerrard was pole-axed at one point inside the box. Normally when we appeal for a pen I have a little bloke in the corner of my brain who says 'Hold on. The baldy twat must do his pointy thing first'. This time I didn't bother. It was a pen, pure and simple. I started the celebration even without the ref....

A shite decision. If you can't get those right it means that all your other decisions must be open to doubt as well. Time to resign and try another trade.

I think it was the right idea, just the wrong execution. What I kept thinking about, and Cpt. Reina and I discussed this after the game was why the hell Rodgers didn't do what he did against West Brom in the League Cup. Team parked the bus, plenty of talent on the pitch but couldn't find a red shirt to save their lives. Suso comes on after 81 minutes. In the 82nd the Reds lead 2-1. Assaidi in theory could've worked but even before it happened I knew it was a terrible idea. Whether or not his talent (or lack thereof) warrants it this was shades of Babel. Drawing against a team that parks the bus, being sloppy in possession and you put on a one dimensional, tunnel visioned youngster (mentally speaking, anyway) with everything to prove and an axe to grind. With everything to prove and a stadium in need of a hero he was going for goal when he got the ball, every single time, without fault. Shelvey could at least, in theory anyway, passed the ball around and take some heat of Gerrard who had to be everywhere and nowhere to control the play. Suso would've been able to draw defenders in and set a team mate through. But Assaidi has a one dimensional mind, sometimes that's good. But when Coutinho, Johnson, Suarez, Sturridge, Enrique were all doing that. You didn't really need a 6th player doing exactly the same thing that hadn't been working the previous 70 minutes. You needed something different, hell even throwing Coates up in a Mourinho target-man style would've been better. But that substitution was Babel all over again. A player who offers pace and directness being introduced at the wrong time, in the wrong set up, being asked to produce after weeks on the bench and sent out with the feeling that if he doesn't he'll be back there again. Again I don't think it's about Assaidi's talent per se, but at this stage in the game just hold your hands up and say you got it wrong. Because using him in situations like this is just asking for it to blow up in your face.

No doubt there'll be some supporters saying 'where was our Plan B?' I'm not one of them. Plan A was good enough to beat the opposition. Even with five minutes to go it was good enough. Andy Carroll, had he played (for either side), wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the result.

*I'd say Pepe too. But Pepe had fuck all to do for 95 minutes, which says a lot about Fat 'Sam' and his approach to the game.

I would definitely agree with that. Carroll wouldn't have done anything better than Cole at controlling balls landing 20 feet away from him. Only beneficial thing he would've done for our team would be that we wouldn't have crossed the ball that much, having had someone over 5 ft tall in the box.

What I didn't get and am still perplexed over is after Suarez ran into Collins for the umpteenth time and Sturridge being lacklustre in his hold up play why, at no point in the game, Rodgers didn't swap them around. Have Suarez come at them from another angle and Sturridge being a constant presence in the box because we know that when things don't fall our way Suarez drops away from goal to get involved in play and making a difference. I wanted to claw my eyes out when I saw Suarez watching a ball fly 3 ft over his head and then Sturridge near the center circle asking Carra to play the ball to him. It was a gross misuse of personnel and Rodgers only has himself to blame for that in my opinion.

We should've won, we could've won. But Rodgers could and should have done more with the situation at hand this time.
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Offline BreakfastPercy

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #4 on: April 7, 2013, 10:23:35 pm »
Quote
The old lady peered from under her cowl just long enough to curl a finger and beckon the boy inside. He followed nervously, allowing himself a glance at the baked dirt street before heading inside and away from the swirling dust and prickling heat. She shuffled ahead purposefully, taking a seat opposite a little table draped in red silk. Again she beckoned him, this time to sit at the table. He followed, giving an apprehensive smile of teeth he hadn’t grown into yet.

“Your palm,” she said.

He held out a muddy childish hand, and she gripped his wrist intently as her other hand traced the lines of his palm.

“I see good fortune. Riches and success in lands that know such things,” she continued to follow the lines. Were it that her face could show it, she might be smiling. “There is love too, and a baby,” she paused, her wrinkled brow furrowed in thought.

But quickly thought became worry, and she begun to grip his wrist more tightly. Her finger stopped abruptly in the middle of his palm as her vice-grip started to hurt the boy. She pulled him in closely, a look of panic on her face; attention; wildness. “You must beware the one called James Collins, for like the Plagues of Egypt he shall stricken you.”

The boy’s eyes questioned: he didn't know this name.

“He is the Jonjo Shelvey-looking one. Of him you must beware!” she said, releasing her grip as the boy nodded understanding, though he was still none the wiser.

“Luis!” shrilled a voice behind him, and the boy turned to look. “There you are! Come along now.” Luis eyed his mother oddly, still startled by what had just happened. She seemed unconcerned. He turned back in the hope of explaining himself but- to his disbelief- there was no one there! He looked around the room for any sign of an exit, but there were neither windows nor doors, just the tawdry, covered table and an empty chair.

He sat unmoved; dazed. His mother took him by the hand, dragging Luis like a weight as he stewed in utter shock. As he finally came too, he glanced one last time at the now still room before his mother dragged him through the doorway and plunged them back into the glare of the Salto city streets.

***End of Chapter One:  Luis Suarez and The Foretelling of James Collins***

Football is both utterly predictable and bizarre in the extreme. I have little antipathy towards Sam Allardyce, Pulis bathes in that hate now. Numb to it...

Don't let it get you too down guys, Allardyce has spent a lifetime perfecting this shit, we've spent one season learning the opposite :)

Offline BreakfastPercy

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #5 on: April 7, 2013, 10:25:28 pm »
Oh and that is an absolutely immense, if sad, post Garstonite

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #6 on: April 7, 2013, 10:42:37 pm »
G I am with you mate. This seasons renewal is teetering on the brink. Which is ridiculous because I've enjoyed the footy more than I have for a few seasons.

It's the c*nts who go. The new not got a clue c*nts. The old seen it all before and cannot be arsed c*nts. The foreign c*nts. The local c*nts. The woolly c*nts. The scally c*nts. The amusing themselves in 306 self-satisfied c*nts. The moaning old c*nts nipping home early. The tourist c*nts with their cameras. The wifi tweeting c*nts. The back seat commentators, the back seat managers, the tactical genius chalkboard c*nts. The sledgers, the slaters, the Downing baiters. The doom-mongers, the nay-Sayers, the wannabe opinion formers.

Just fuck off and get the match back to what it should be. Have a laugh, back the team, go home. Turn up next week and repeat. Win, lose or draw.
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #7 on: April 7, 2013, 11:15:53 pm »
Kev, what do you really think tho?

I wasn't there but watched it. We looked like a team expecting Suarez to get us out of a hole and then we looked tired and then we drew. There's not much more to say, I've seen us play against teams like this and play like this.

It's frustrating when other results today could've helped us, but once again, we look like a team on the up slowly but surely. I'm enjoying watching a Liverpool team with some idea of what its trying to do. That's been better than for a while.
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Offline Garstonite

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #8 on: April 7, 2013, 11:30:25 pm »
G I am with you mate. This seasons renewal is teetering on the brink. Which is ridiculous because I've enjoyed the footy more than I have for a few seasons.

It's the c*nts who go. The new not got a clue c*nts. The old seen it all before and cannot be arsed c*nts. The foreign c*nts. The local c*nts. The woolly c*nts. The scally c*nts. The amusing themselves in 306 self-satisfied c*nts. The moaning old c*nts nipping home early. The tourist c*nts with their cameras. The wifi tweeting c*nts. The back seat commentators, the back seat managers, the tactical genius chalkboard c*nts. The sledgers, the slaters, the Downing baiters. The doom-mongers, the nay-Sayers, the wannabe opinion formers.

Just fuck off and get the match back to what it should be. Have a laugh, back the team, go home. Turn up next week and repeat. Win, lose or draw.

Great stuff. It's even better sang in your best Rolf Harris voice and "were just passing by" at the end of each.

Offline the 92A

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #9 on: April 7, 2013, 11:51:39 pm »
Every time we draw or get beat the football totally pales into insignificance for me as I'm reminded of the reality of what going the match has become. Agree with Garstonite and Kev, next season we're losing one of our seasies, as one of my mates has had enough and can't afford it in the Main Stand but I've begun to hate most of our fans, not good, where are the kids coming through, they can't afford it. We're still wearing sambas thirty years on. to be honest today all it took was for one of those moves to come off and everything would have been alright, we're not there but there are enough positives that even ten years ago there'd be disappointment but an air of understanding. It's gone.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #10 on: April 7, 2013, 11:52:47 pm »
That's so sad but true Albie mate, "That air of understanding has gone".
Lovely line.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #11 on: April 7, 2013, 11:58:18 pm »
Well, one of those 0-0 draws against a side we should beat. It's been a while hasn't it? It's almost nice to see one... Well not really, but still the fact that it's been a while shows our improvement against poorer sides I guess?

Brendan picked the right team for me, but Suarez had a really poor day and nobody really stepped up when he needed them too - fair or not?

Yes, I think we had the right team out there. We controlled things, we tried, but today we were lacking the edge. Coutinho stepped up, but apart from him, not enough did.

It was a game we should have won, but I'm not too upset about this one. It's disappointing with just one point, but I see it as one of those days. If this is an off day, then we've come a long way.

Also, I thought the manager got the subs wrong. Downing's injury was key to us not clicking as an attack I reckon, and replacing him with Sturridge meant we had hardly any width at all with Coutinho looking to cut in off the left hand side. Personally I'd have liked to have seen Shelvey come on and Henderson go wide. Jordan isn't great there, but I think he'd try and keep the shape more than Sturridge did. I also thought replacing Henderson with Assaidi was odd. I understand Rodgers wanting to get some width, but with West Ham hardly looking to break from midfield, I think Lucas could have been taken off, and I wouldn't have picked Assaidi as replacement either. Having said that, I'm not the manager so what do I know?

I disagree. Thought the subs were good. Just read Downing was ill, so he wasn't much of an option. We went with Sturridge and I don't think he had a good game. When we took Henderson off though, then I liked the intent. Coutinho had a good game. We gave him a central role and we tried to go with the initial idea. A winger down one flank. It didn't quite work, but I think we learnt something new.

Lucas is really important to us and I think we'll play him as much as we possibly can.

Positives: I don't think you can question our will and desire to win the game, I just think the opposition defended well. Also, I thought we coped with their attack pretty well. We've really struggled against physical sides this year, but they hardly had a sniff.

Yes, they defended well. And I liked how we handled Cole. Kind of expected us to struggle against him, but we did a fine job there. Came close on him and cancelled him out. Today they had that dribble and it was the mistake by Lucas, plus a corner that was saved by Lucas on the line. Thought it was good that it wasn't the counter-attack, or the long ball we saw against Villa last week that was knocked down for a shot and a goal.


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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #12 on: April 8, 2013, 12:18:38 am »
***End of Chapter One:  Luis Suarez and The Foretelling of James Collins***

Lovely.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #13 on: April 8, 2013, 05:34:36 am »
Nobody had done one and didn't see a name so thought I'd get the ball rolling so to speak:


Well, one of those 0-0 draws against a side we should beat. It's been a while hasn't it? It's almost nice to see one... Well not really, but still the fact that it's been a while shows our improvement against poorer sides I guess?

It is a good sign wrapped in a bad result. There are several silver linings to be had - firstly, we kept another clean sheet, matching last year’s total of 12 in the league. Secondly, we handled a direct central-attacking team and kept them locked out, although we did have 1 or 2 scares. Thirdly, Coutinho continued his progress, and looks like he could rapidly become a key player in the nearest future.


Brendan picked the right team for me, but Suarez had a really poor day and nobody really stepped up when he needed them too - fair or not?

Fair. But I think it was a “perfect storm” game – Suarez was off the boil, Sturridge is still not match-fit, and Coutinho was creating. Gerrard didn’t have his shooting boots, and Henderson was playing too fast for himself. Added to that, Johnson had a poor game on the ball, Enrique was more reserved, and we were always going to be struggling. The thing is, we won’t have many of those games. On another day, Agger’s shot goes in, or the Suarez/Coutinho 1-2 combination at the near post works out, or the Jaaskeleinen gets injured in the warm-up and West Ham’s back-up doesn’t have the same reflexes and doesn’t get down for Suarez’ near post shot, etc. The biggest gain from the game is that we didn’t get sucker-punched. And the later result between Spurs and Everton means the last few games still have something to play for, and that is a very positive thing for a manager’s first season.


Also, I thought the manager got the subs wrong. Downing's injury was key to us not clicking as an attack I reckon, and replacing him with Sturridge meant we had hardly any width at all with Coutinho looking to cut in off the left hand side. Personally I'd have liked to have seen Shelvey come on and Henderson go wide. Jordan isn't great there, but I think he'd try and keep the shape more than Sturridge did. I also thought replacing Henderson with Assaidi was odd. I understand Rodgers wanting to get some width, but with West Ham hardly looking to break from midfield, I think Lucas could have been taken off, and I wouldn't have picked Assaidi as replacement either. Having said that, I'm not the manager so what do I know?

The subs were perfectly logical. Once you could see exactly how deep West Ham were going to set up, the early and first goal were going to be crucial. Sturridge made sense for that, as he is a goalscorer. The problem is not that he didn’t maintain width, so much as Coutinho didn’t either. Added to that Johnson’s propensity for moving inside to the inside right channel and it was fairly obvious that we were going to be narrow for a lot of the game, which played into West Ham’s plan. If we look at the movement within the shape of the team once Sturridge went on, we can see that a lot of the runs were inside runs:



The issue is that both fullbacks were also making those same runs, where they probably should have kept things wide. The outside forwards’ moving inward is an established part of Rodgers’ game, but it is vital that the fullbacks maintain the width in the attack (although this does lead to problems in transition when both fullbacks are caught up-field). In the West Ham game, this didn’t happen and so there was no real structure to the team in terms of stretching the West Ham defence, which was tight and disciplined at all times (as can be expected from an Allardyce team).


Positives: I don't think you can question our will and desire to win the game, I just think the opposition defended well. Also, I thought we coped with their attack pretty well. We've really struggled against physical sides this year, but they hardly had a sniff.

West Ham were everything anyone could have expected – deep, defensive, counter-attacking, structured, and alert to all threats. We didn’t help ourselves by being untidy with the final ball, but they also made it difficult for us to get a decent ball into a shooting position. Their formation was interesting though because Nolan was the deeper midfielder and Diame made more of the attacking bursts:




Jarvis added some thrust to the attack but all the pre-match talk about him was misplaced, as he’s good in bursts but he’s not a consistent threat. Cole had the unenviable task of waiting for the parked bus to move forward and was often isolated and ineffective at times – Diame was the more threatening player with his drive with the ball, putting in an almost Vieira-like performance at times that really deserves a better team. Preferably one in red. That plays at Anfield. Collins gets the plaudits for keeping Suarez quiet, but a tip of the hat has to go to O’Neil too, who did some good work in the midfield for West Ham – much like Lucas, it is the kind of work that doesn’t get noticed but can be vital to a team’s shape. Their attacks were simple and direct, and what was noticeable at times was that when the long ball was being prepared, one of the central defenders would push up on Cole and the other would drop back and sweep. This was a key point for a few reasons – firstly, it was very, very traditional and smacked of common sense; the kind of common sense which would have helped us to a clean sheet against Villa. Secondly, it was a key point because in order to be able to do that, the two central defenders have to be close enough to get position – as can be seen from the team shape, Agger and Carragher played very traditionally, and this has been happening since Carragher got back into the team. West Ham didn’t offer enough threat to test the positioning too many times, but the central attacks were all but snuffed out, which was pleasing to see.

The tale of the tape, though, showed a Liverpool side that was dominant in one of the phases of attack (build-up) but lacking in the other two (final ball and finishing). The dominance was so strong that Reina had the least touches of anyone who played more than a half of the game, on both teams:



We can see the importance of Lucas in the game here, which explains the need to keep him on – he did a good job clogging up the central channel which forced Diame left and right and into the more easily-defender wing channels. What was interesting about our touches is that Coutinho had one of the better counts for the first time this season, a consequence of his growing comfort in the team and his central positioning when Assaidi came on. Sturridge, though, had fewer touches, and possibly represents his inability to impose himself on the game – although that will come with more fitness and integration into the team. West Ham’s touches reflect the way the game went, with their goalkeeper dominating the touches after Gary O’Neil in central midfield. Nolan had little involvement in the game, and Collins had to get touches on the ball as he played a good tight game on Suarez:




Overall, though, the game was a tale of dominance for Liverpool, punctuated by a few West Ham counter-attacks, and summarized by the Liverpool shot count with no goals to show for it. “One of those days” is the best way to describe it, but attention has to be paid to the fact that it is only the 3rd 0-0 draw all season in the league, and only the 6th game in which we’ve failed to score. There are big positives there if we care to look for them. In a season of “transition”, we haven’t done too badly at all. The acid test will be next season, of course. At that point, I’m not sure West Ham will be looking forward to this game (although by the sounds coming from Allardyce after the game, they weren’t looking forward to this one either).



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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #14 on: April 8, 2013, 09:29:01 pm »
Nobody will be talking about this draw while we have the good news of a doctor listening to Thatcher draw her last breath.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #15 on: April 8, 2013, 09:31:15 pm »
BreakfastPercy's post is in the pantheon.

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #16 on: April 8, 2013, 09:31:37 pm »
Here's my tuppence and this may be viewed as a bit of a tangent but fuck it.

We need to get the fuck out of Anfield as soon as possible.  The fact people still label it as our "greatest selling point" shows just how fucked we are at the moment. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is my last year as a season-ticket holder. I'm passing my ticket on to somebody younger and more passionate about the Reds than I am. You'd think then, that I should be savouring every second remaining, but that place plonked in the middle of L4 is a fucking joke. Around me, the average age of fan is easily late-50s. Each and every last one of them is a moaning bastard who haven't got the faintest idea what they are ranting about and next year they will be paying £850 for the privilege. We've got fucking Tena Men adverts in the toilets. That speaks for itself. I mean, what the fuck?

There was a time when the clock ticking down on a 0-0 draw would spur the crowd on. And yes, there's an air of acceptance to this sort of shite now, but what is constructive about shouting abuse at a player for miscontrolling a pass or playing a ball to the opposition? There are some serious fucking psychological flaws with these people. They are either simply that dim or they gain some sadistic pleasure out of being frustrated. Meanwhile, you've got a kid on the way out with his Dad who says "at least I still haven't seen them beaten". Which, okay, is fucked up in its own sense, but this kid - aged probably about 11 or 12 - is probably referring to a catalogue of about five games he's been to. I know it's supply and demand, I know it's a business, but the whole thing is on its head. Anfield is a fucking shell of what it once was and every visit depresses the shite out of me more and more.

I don't really give much thought into FSG's "day-to-day involvement" or whether or not they have invested enough money in transfers. But what I do know is that a 9% increase for a shitty fucking seat to see sides managed by Sam Allardyce and other fucking yard-dog c*nts is taking so much piss every fucking Tena Men in the world wouldn't be able to hold it. Do you know what? If it's what it takes, share a ground with Everton. Do something. Because while we hold on to this rose-tinted vision into what it used to be like there's generations of kids who are sat watching shitty online streams while John Henry wipes his arse on twenty dollar bills paid for by the moaning twats and gloryhunters that have killed Liverpool's "greatest selling point".

Anyway, Rodgers and all that...
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #17 on: April 8, 2013, 10:07:29 pm »
It's a sobering thread when you read Garstonite, Kev and Albie's posts. But then you see the photos from tonight and you think maybe there's life in the old dogs yet. But I've no place commenting. I just wish I could make folk feel better about it all - it's inexorable though - same North of the border, same every place you go. Only you boys have lost more in comparative terms.

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #18 on: April 8, 2013, 10:26:08 pm »
Disappointing result obviously and we lose ground on Europe again but I don't think we played badly. Just one of those days where your key player plays poorly and you lack efficiency in the final third and you just can't find the goal.

Defensively we managed to combat West Ham well. Dominated possession and they were happy to defend in their half which made it easier for us to limit their attacks. When they went long we kept our lines together and dealt with their aerial threat well. On defensive transitions we were good - we limited their chances for Jarvis to get 1v1 opportunities down the left and Lucas broke up many of their counter opportunities when they won the ball. It also helped that Cole often had the problem of being in a 1v2 situation with our centre backs and that when they did get past Lucas to counter they were slowing it down and trying to get it into the wide areas instead of playing through our lines.

Attack was obviously the main area and I guess a lot of it was just having wires crossed. Again we generally had one player from midfield or a 'wide' player making a run off or standing on the shoulder of the centre backs to create space for Suarez positioning himself between the lines in order to receive and turn. Unfortunately Suarez had a poor game. He still managed to turn Collins on two or three occasions, leaving Sturridge in a 1v1 position against their other centre back. But when your best player has a game like that, it's going to be difficult to break the other team down.

We were going through the middle too much and constantly losing it there. The full backs never went down the outside, they just used their out-to-in runs that has been a feature of their movement since Rodgers came in. Really we were overcrowding that area. Henderson was moving forward. Gerrard although more involved in switching and playing passes from deep, was also making vertical runs forward. Sturridge and Downing were both narrow when they played and Coutinho always turned onto his right foot. What we needed to do better was create more tactical width and open up their backline to create space for runs from the players inside. But we didn't really do that. We also made mistakes when there was space for us to counter attack

The second half we introduced a bit more of a surprise element. Carragher got forward and linked with Johnson early on on the right. Agger came forward on the other side to have shots from long range. But we still had the same problems. I agreed with bringing on Assaidi because it was obvious we were making it easier for West Ham by playing too narrow. However I think he should have been used in more of a tactical role in terms of positioning himself wide in order to open up their backline instead of putting crosses into the box which we weren't going to win. The idea was right, the execution wrong.

Above all though, I think it was just one of those days. It could have resulted in a win had the foul on Gerrard been given a penalty or if Suarez had had a better game etc. But we haven't had too many of these type of games this season and we did control enough of the game to win it.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #19 on: April 9, 2013, 01:18:39 am »
Interested to see what others thought. I felt this game exposed a few of our weakness.

For one it wasn't a game that suited Henderson. While he was by no means terrible the way Westham setup meant we weren't able to take advantage of his running capacity defensively or offensively. We struggled to get things going around him and this is where losing Downing didn't help. I felt this game emphasis all Henderson's weakness and negated all his strengths. In this case we needed somebody that would take on players and make things happen. It was the type of situation where an Iniesta or Cazorla would absolutely destroy the opposition and I felt it highlighted to me just why we need an AM. I generally have been in favor of Henderson over Allen but perhaps this was a case where Allen would have done the job for us, unfortunately he's injured.

The substitution therefore to bring on Assaidi and move Coutinho centrally made sense to me. It gave us the player needed to take control in the AM position. Unfortunately I thought Assaidi was really poor. 25 minutes in what was his first hit out for ages, so you can't blame him, but I didn't like the crosses he put in to nobody, and I thought he needed to make more intelligent, more direct forward runs for Coutinho to pick out.

In terms of other areas our defensive midfielders I thought did a really good job. Westhams counter attacks were swiftly broken down and we did a good job of dominated possession.  Lucas could have been a bit more ambitious on the ball but I still think he did a good job of recycling play. Gerrard though offensively seemed the most likely to make something happen.  Although we didn't get the goal I think this game highlight why Gerrard should still be there even if he isn't defensively as strong as an Alonso. IMO Gerrard did a good job of pushing the game forward and I really thought he looked good for a goal.  Unfortunately it didn't happen in this particular game. Perhaps should have had a penalty though.

Overall I thought we did well defensively as well. The brain fade pass and poor first touch between Carra/Lucas aside perhaps along with Diame's  run but I was really happy with Aggers contribution. We did though again conceded a good chance from a set pieces (when Lucas cleared of the line). But not much point talking about that, I expect it to be addressed over summer and not before.
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Offline Frizzo

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Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #20 on: April 9, 2013, 03:12:04 am »
Can people please stop saying the Gerrard shout was a penalty. The defender clearly (clear enough that even watching live through my red-tinted glasses I immediately turned to my girlfriend and said "never a penalty") toes the ball away. Extremely reckless to throw yourself around in the box like that, but he got lucky.

The handball was more of a shout in my book, but even that would've been extremely harsh.

Offline keyo

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #21 on: April 9, 2013, 04:04:43 am »
Can people please stop saying the Gerrard shout was a penalty. The defender clearly (clear enough that even watching live through my red-tinted glasses I immediately turned to my girlfriend and said "never a penalty") toes the ball away. Extremely reckless to throw yourself around in the box like that, but he got lucky.

The handball was more of a shout in my book, but even that would've been extremely harsh.

nah, he got a toe to the ball without clearing it but his challenge brought gerrard to ground whilst the ball was still there...making contact with the ball does not nullify any contact, particularly in this case when basically it was incidental - he just stuck his foot out whilst laying prone in front of gerrard, make that much contact with a player then run the risk of giving away a foul....having said that, no complaints had he awarded a pen against enrique for kicking tompkins even though the contact was not nearly significant enough for the reaction

poor performance by individuals as opposed to shape, tactics, et al....too slow in passing and control, movement then dropped off....unfortunately suarez had a stinker for most of the game, and nothing came off for him no matter how hard he tried, coutinho was in and out but looked most likely to create until gerrard worked up a head of steam towards the end.....would have liked to see sturridge play down the middle and move suarez out wide, purely let them worry about the set up more.....and maybe get suarez around the penalty area more....not a game to dissect too much, more a bad day at the office.....that is a prooblem when they tot up (which in the first half of the season was a concern to be fair, not so much now)
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Offline carraexpress

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #22 on: April 9, 2013, 04:10:20 am »
Tactics aside, two things really bothered me. First, that was the worst game we've played under the new system in terms of one touch passes. And it might be because of the second thing: the pitch, LIVERPOOL'S PITCH* was so bobble-y (not a word, full of bobbles, is bobbles a word?). Every pass was reaching the player at shin height. So, chicken or egg, we could barely manage swift moves and really relied on Suarez and Coutinho to do something brilliant. The former was up against a cb having the game of his life (even though he still got megged like twice) and has been slightly off his sparkling form in recent weeks.

The Assaidi sub made perfect sense (and I agree with DanA's comments on Hendo), although I was a little surprised Rodgers didn't go with Suso or Sterling (I forget if Raheem was on the bench, actually) given they've actually played this year. I have high hopes for him, and as long as he doesn't demand a move for playing time, he could be a game changing squad player based on his dribbling (he had a game at his last club where he scored 3 and assisted 3). But, as others have said, he's not played in so long. What can you expect? And it was cool to see Coutinho in the center of the pitch, given West Ham's disgusting gameplan, that might have done the trick had he been there before he had spent 70 minutes running around.

Also, can somebody explain what Sturridge was brought on to do? If he's going to replace Downing, why is he trying to pick up the ball at the half way line? If that's what Rodgers wanted from his RW/F I don't know why Sturridge didn't switch with Suarez so he could do what Daniel kept trying. I feel like this is a way that Coutinho being amazing and undroppable has disrupted us a bit. The few games in the beginning of Sturridge's time here where he played centrally, we put Suarez on the LW and he would drift into the hole (and where ever he damn pleased) and Hendo would cover for him seemed to work wonders. Furthermore, Sturridge is a tall dude. I know he's not an accomplished header of the ball, but out of all our players he has a best chance of getting on the end of some of those Assaidi crosses. Also, putting Suarez on the right would have put him up against their other cb most of the game (although, I don't think anyone will ever have to gameplan for Collins again, ever. GAHHH WHEN SUAREZ MEGGED HIM HAD ABOUT 15 YARDS OF SPACE IN FRONT OF HIM AND HE DECIDES TO SHOOT FROM 30 YARDS EARLY ON  WHEN SCORING EARLY MEANT ANOTHER 5 NILLER GAHHHH*ahem* sorry).

Still, I was just saying to my brother that I can't even remember our last nil-nil draw (Swansea away?). So while there is plenty to be encouraged about long term, I empathize with "frustrating" being the most used word on here. (And add to that the knowledge in the back of my mind that I had a 30 page paper due on boring-ass US Trade Law in 24 hours, every minute of that 90 could have been better spent. GAHH!)

*I know, I know, even a lurky sort like myself knows how people deride mentioning the state of the pitch as an excuse, but if you look back to every game we've truly struggled (bar Arsenal) a shit pitch has been a factor. Oldham, that other lower league team whose name escapes me but who Suarez slapped us into the lead, even away at United (I wouldn't say we struggled here but I swear, Ferguson tore up that pitch on purpose and it had an effect on our play). If only Liverpool could play on a futsal surface every week... We should be able to adapt, we need to be able to adapt if we're to win some of these cups. I guess, that's what made the players' continued insistence to try to one-touch the ball around even more galling. (SO MANY PARANTHESES(SORRY)).
« Last Edit: April 9, 2013, 04:34:35 am by carraexpress »

Offline wah00ey

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #23 on: April 9, 2013, 11:22:12 am »
Can people please stop saying the Gerrard shout was a penalty. The defender clearly (clear enough that even watching live through my red-tinted glasses I immediately turned to my girlfriend and said "never a penalty") toes the ball away. Extremely reckless to throw yourself around in the box like that, but he got lucky.

The handball was more of a shout in my book, but even that would've been extremely harsh.
It would have been given as a foul anywhere outside the box.  Took player and ball.  So it's a pen in my book.

Sad to read some of the posts above.  I said in the post-match that (from a purely footballing perspective) we're not much better than West Ham at the moment and I stand by that.  The league doesn't lie and the fact that we tend to play more attractive and entertaining football is irrelevant - we're much closer to them in the league than we are to the top.  To put it another way, West Ham are mid table mediocrity and we're probably the best of the mid-table teams so, results-wise, not a lot in it.  We're looking like we're going in the right direction, everything crossed.

Can't comment on the rest of the match as I've only seen the pathetic Beeb highlights.  Question though - how good / bad was Johnson?  I felt he was saving himself for the Engerlund games when we played Southampton but he didn't have that "excuse" on Sunday, did he?

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #24 on: April 9, 2013, 03:08:03 pm »
Anyone notice by the way how Lucas does virtually all of Carragher's heading for him these days?
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #25 on: April 9, 2013, 04:06:48 pm »
Anyone notice by the way how Lucas does virtually all of Carragher's heading for him these days?
He does the whole team's heading!  Nobody else even bothers to challenge.

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #26 on: April 9, 2013, 04:10:36 pm »
Here's my tuppence and this may be viewed as a bit of a tangent but fuck it.

We need to get the fuck out of Anfield as soon as possible.  The fact people still label it as our "greatest selling point" shows just how fucked we are at the moment. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is my last year as a season-ticket holder. I'm passing my ticket on to somebody younger and more passionate about the Reds than I am. You'd think then, that I should be savouring every second remaining, but that place plonked in the middle of L4 is a fucking joke. Around me, the average age of fan is easily late-50s. Each and every last one of them is a moaning bastard who haven't got the faintest idea what they are ranting about and next year they will be paying £850 for the privilege. We've got fucking Tena Men adverts in the toilets. That speaks for itself. I mean, what the fuck?

There was a time when the clock ticking down on a 0-0 draw would spur the crowd on. And yes, there's an air of acceptance to this sort of shite now, but what is constructive about shouting abuse at a player for miscontrolling a pass or playing a ball to the opposition? There are some serious fucking psychological flaws with these people. They are either simply that dim or they gain some sadistic pleasure out of being frustrated. Meanwhile, you've got a kid on the way out with his Dad who says "at least I still haven't seen them beaten". Which, okay, is fucked up in its own sense, but this kid - aged probably about 11 or 12 - is probably referring to a catalogue of about five games he's been to. I know it's supply and demand, I know it's a business, but the whole thing is on its head. Anfield is a fucking shell of what it once was and every visit depresses the shite out of me more and more.

I don't really give much thought into FSG's "day-to-day involvement" or whether or not they have invested enough money in transfers. But what I do know is that a 9% increase for a shitty fucking seat to see sides managed by Sam Allardyce and other fucking yard-dog c*nts is taking so much piss every fucking Tena Men in the world wouldn't be able to hold it. Do you know what? If it's what it takes, share a ground with Everton. Do something. Because while we hold on to this rose-tinted vision into what it used to be like there's generations of kids who are sat watching shitty online streams while John Henry wipes his arse on twenty dollar bills paid for by the moaning twats and gloryhunters that have killed Liverpool's "greatest selling point".

Anyway, Rodgers and all that...
Really interesting post and something to think about.  Subsequent posts from VdM & 92A too.  I know the lads on TAW briefly touched upon it. 

We need to recreate not only the successful team but the support also.  People are fed up but are now entrenched.  It's doing nobody any good.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #27 on: April 9, 2013, 04:16:35 pm »
The game showed that Rodgers seems to have inherited the fear that most managers have of taking off your star players.

Suarez could've played for a month on Sunday and not scored, he just wasn't at the races. Yet he stayed on, and there was never a danger of him being taken off...

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #28 on: April 9, 2013, 04:18:37 pm »
The game showed that Rodgers seems to have inherited the fear that most managers have of taking off your star players.

Suarez could've played for a month on Sunday and not scored, he just wasn't at the races. Yet he stayed on, and there was never a danger of him being taken off...

Most managers have that fear because your star players are that for a reason.

That's with any star player, but specifically one like Luis who is an expert at creating something from fuck all? Dunno about you, or any other manager, but I sure as fuck wouldn't take him off at 0-0 chasing a goal.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #29 on: April 9, 2013, 04:34:22 pm »
The game showed that Rodgers seems to have inherited the fear that most managers have of taking off your star players.

Suarez could've played for a month on Sunday and not scored, he just wasn't at the races. Yet he stayed on, and there was never a danger of him being taken off...

0-0, tight game but with possession dominance, and you're looking for a goal - and you would take off the top scorer in the league? For who, exactly? Who did we have on the bench that would have got us that goal?
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Offline paddysour

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #30 on: April 9, 2013, 04:35:15 pm »
Remember the abuse when Rafa took off Torres, and that look from Gerrard?

Offline koptician

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #31 on: April 9, 2013, 04:45:24 pm »
That's so sad but true Albie mate, "That air of understanding has gone".
Lovely line.

That's really upsetting to hear because that is/was the integral part of us doing well at home  :-[

Offline wah00ey

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #32 on: April 9, 2013, 04:48:00 pm »
That's really upsetting to hear because that is/was the integral part of us doing well at home  :-[
You can hear the moans and groans quite clearly on the tv when a player loses possession or missplaces a pass, it's really noticeable.  Doesn't seem so bad at the away games but you very rarely used to hear this sort of thing at all.
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Offline Beninger

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #33 on: April 9, 2013, 05:00:12 pm »
For me, suarez can come up with something incredible even on an off day simply because he never stops trying and he always has the ability to score. When they stop trying like torres often did then you take them off.
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Offline peachybum

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #34 on: April 9, 2013, 05:28:58 pm »
For me, suarez can come up with something incredible even on an off day simply because he never stops trying and he always has the ability to score. When they stop trying like torres often did then you take them off.

Exactly and he almost did it in this game. If that shot from right the line through the keepers legs had gone in nobody would have cared how many times he gave the ball away.
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Offline Anonymous5

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #35 on: April 9, 2013, 07:34:27 pm »
Does it not worry anyone that both our manager (who I like) and our players keep mentioning getting an early goal is important? I mean, I'm sure thats what every team looks for when they step out to the field, but its as if once we hit the 60-70 mark during the game, the team just seems stop believing, seem. Its all about the mentality, hence why you always see the manc getting late late goals. Its just a thought I had in my head for a while so  :wave

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #36 on: April 9, 2013, 07:40:10 pm »
Does it not worry anyone that both our manager (who I like) and our players keep mentioning getting an early goal is important? I mean, I'm sure thats what every team looks for when they step out to the field, but its as if once we hit the 60-70 mark during the game, the team just seems stop believing, seem. Its all about the mentality, hence why you always see the manc getting late late goals. Its just a thought I had in my head for a while so  :wave

It's not so much the early goal, as the first goal - the scorer of the first goal in a game usually wins (although not always). Scoring the first goal, and early, means you are in a better position because the other team have to attack just to equalise, and in doing so, they expose their goal to counterattacks and through-balls. Very quickly, they can find themselves 2-0 behind, and usually that is game over.

The mentality that exists in United is certainly there, but it exists partly because they've always had a number of potential goalscorers on the field or available on the bench. When we get to that stage, I think we'll be winning more stalemates late-on, then we have in a few years.
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Offline Pilchard

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #37 on: April 9, 2013, 07:51:53 pm »
Upsetting but understandable that so many people are disillusioned by going to the match these days. We were talking about this very thing in the pub post game. Admittedly most were willing to give it another season, but I know two people who are giving up season tickets. Not because of the football though. Every team has good and poor patches and we've been lucky enough to know a lot of the good times. its just that football has changed so much. Shanks would have done anything for the fans. Now the fans are just a cash cow for owners. We all know that. But that's the measure of how things have changed, especially as seen through the eyes (and corrective lenses) of us auld arses.

One thing we were in agreement on in the pub was that Everton, whether they get better or not, will have the monopoly on the young supporters in the city, the future of football. £95 for a kids season ticket. Brilliant value. And what dad wouldn't be badgered by his kids to get him one? Especially if the lad is being bombarded by his mates, peer pressure and all that! To be honest, hypothetically, if my lad had been footy mad and there was a chance to take him to see live games I might be tempted to let his blue uncle take him as I wouldn't be getting him into nearly as many red games.

For LFC the way forward has to be a percentage of pay at the gate, as put forward by many. Make the Paddock pay on the gate and it will sell out every time and well before kick off. A captive audience to buy drink and pies. But also make half of it adult child.

 It might not cure the atmosphere but it might raise the hopes of kids getting to see their local team and start the journey that most of us until recently took for granted.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #38 on: April 9, 2013, 09:00:25 pm »
G I am with you mate. This seasons renewal is teetering on the brink. Which is ridiculous because I've enjoyed the footy more than I have for a few seasons.

It's the c*nts who go. The new not got a clue c*nts. The old seen it all before and cannot be arsed c*nts. The foreign c*nts. The local c*nts. The woolly c*nts. The scally c*nts. The amusing themselves in 306 self-satisfied c*nts. The moaning old c*nts nipping home early. The tourist c*nts with their cameras. The wifi tweeting c*nts. The back seat commentators, the back seat managers, the tactical genius chalkboard c*nts. The sledgers, the slaters, the Downing baiters. The doom-mongers, the nay-Sayers, the wannabe opinion formers.

Just fuck off and get the match back to what it should be. Have a laugh, back the team, go home. Turn up next week and repeat. Win, lose or draw.

Just beautiful. Just about sums up everything I feel about things these days.

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - Round the Scoreless Table
« Reply #39 on: April 9, 2013, 09:06:56 pm »
Exactly and he almost did it in this game. If that shot from right the line through the keepers legs had gone in nobody would have cared how many times he gave the ball away.

But it didn't and he should have measured the pass to Sturridge who was in a better position than Suarez to score. He's too greedy sometimes and it gets frustrating. Is it down to a lack of trust in his team mates? Only he knows but if he showed less petulance towards them then they would be more confident in their own ability.