Topic: Shifting CEO standards? Coco the Clown vs Easy Rider

[rossipersempre]

Some of the most successful people in business left school at 16, and a lot of successful people that I have personally work with are ex-services - its not something you should use discredit people with.

Then you have the Harvard educated Cecil who was hated and derided not least because he went to Harvard and his name was Cecil (just like we dont like people who own motor bikes). And lets not forget who sacked Rafa, signed Joe Cole and gave Caragher a £90k a week contract in his last day in charge and after a year of looking for a buyer could only come up with NESV and a guy from Singapore who supports Manchester United.

We really have had some truely shit people in charge

Look, I'm not going to apologise for that dig about his education and avoided it originally as it smacks of elitism snd actually gives him some small credit. And I agree, leaving school at 16 and making something of yourself (by whatever means) is usually to be admired. For example, I have a huge amount of respect for self-made businessmen such as Richard Branson, equally as I do as those such as James Dyson. Just as I despise arch so-called 'educated' teats like Purslow and Comolli.

But Ayre was a merchandiser, a retail man in Asia and has since arsed and brown-nosed his way up the corporate greasy pole, where his lack of education and credentials has been repeatedly exposed. He's effectively on the make in other words. That is not to be admired, not when it's currently adversly affecting a club that is in my blood.

[Eeyore]

Probably? Ayre was given responsibility for drawing up a shortlist for Henry/Werner to interview, and what do you know, given he openly "despises" him, the name Benitez never made the list. Even his nemesis Purslow commented that he was "a very strong candidate". Rafa was black-balled by Ayre, no question whatsoever in my mind.

It is remarkably similar to the situation at the Red Sox where Ben Cherrington was charged with drawing up a shortlist of candidates with a preferred candidate. The hierarchy decided that Cherrington's first choice didn't interview well enough and imposed their own man Bobby Valentine. Makes you wonder about Martinez's Miami interview doesn't it.

[flashman]

I think Al's observation is pertinent and seemed strange at the time: that after a search by recruitment consultants, Ian was promoted as the best option available.

The pay would be commensurate with the position, it's an interesting challenging role, it is relatively glamorous, ok it's not London but overall it has a lot to offer potential CEO's.

Anyone who has spent any time in business can see he lacks the credentials to be an effective CEO.

So why did no one else want the job?
Why haven't we continued the search and just put Ian in as acting CEO?

[Sangria]

Sorry,can someone explain to me why he is called teflon ayre? Keep on seeing this but not sure what it means

Polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) is used as a non-stick coating for pans and other cookware.
(from wikipedia)

Nothing sticks to Ayre. Shit flies all around him, but it's other people who get blamed and sacked by those in charge, never him.

[west_london_red]

Look, I'm not going to apologise for that dig about his education and avoided it originally as it smacks of elitism snd actually gives him some small credit. And I agree, leaving school at 16 and making something of yourself (by whatever means) is usually to be admired. For example, I have a huge amount of respect for self-made businessmen such as Richard Branson, equally as I do as those such as James Dyson. Just as I despise arch so-called 'educated' teats like Purslow and Comolli.

But Ayre was a merchandiser, a retail man in Asia and has since arsed and brown-nosed his way up the corporate greasy pole, where his lack of education and credentials has been repeatedly exposed. He's effectively on the make in other words. That is not to be admired, not when it's currently adversly affecting a club that is in my blood.

Thats where you lose all credibility for me im afraid. Your attacks are way to personal for my liking. I dont know the guy, I dobut you do either. Is he a poor MD - yes he is. Yet you make personal attack after personal attack and that dont sit right with me.

[CraigDS]

Thats where you lose all credibility for me im afraid. Your attacks are way to personal for my liking. I dont know the guy, I dobut you do either. Is he a poor MD - yes he is. Yet you make personal attack after personal attack and that dont sit right with me.

It's because we know very little factually as to who is and isn't responsible for various decisions at the club. Accusations from him drawing up the managers list all on his own, to him having to run every decision by Henry and Werner (surely the two are opposites anyway!) are pure opinion and nothing more.

All we really have to go on is what we see from the exterior, and he probably doesn't come across the best from that view that's for sure.

[Fromola]

Sorry,can someone explain to me why he is called teflon ayre? Keep on seeing this but not sure what it means

No matter how many times he fucks up, or presides over a PR disaster (and that's a lot) nothing sticks to him and he manages to come out smelling of roses.

[Fromola]

It is remarkably similar to the situation at the Red Sox where Ben Cherrington was charged with drawing up a shortlist of candidates with a preferred candidate. The hierarchy decided that Cherrington's first choice didn't interview well enough and imposed their own man Bobby Valentine. Makes you wonder about Martinez's Miami interview doesn't it.

FSG like people who can interview well, but with that can be easily bullshitted by someone who can talk a good game. I.e. Comolli.

[CraigDS]

FSG like people who can interview well, but with that can be easily bullshitted by someone who can talk a good game. I.e. Comolli.

Another opinion.

[East of Anfield]

Polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) is used as a non-stick coating for pans and other cookware.
(from wikipedia)

Nothing sticks to Ayre. Shit flies all around him, but it's other people who get blamed and sacked by those in charge, never him.

Thanks

[Fromola]

Another opinion.

Yeah, it's an opinion. I'm sure it was stated that Comolli interviewed well. He must have sold himself to FSG over the interview, after being recommended by Billy Bean; he didn't have the CV to back it up, but he still got the job.

Rodgers may turn out to be a great manager, but he can certainly sell himself in excess of his CV.

[Eeyore]

I think Al's observation is pertinent and seemed strange at the time: that after a search by recruitment consultants, Ian was promoted as the best option available.

The pay would be commensurate with the position, it's an interesting challenging role, it is relatively glamorous, ok it's not London but overall it has a lot to offer potential CEO's.

Anyone who has spent any time in business can see he lacks the credentials to be an effective CEO.

So why did no one else want the job?
Why haven't we continued the search and just put Ian in as acting CEO?

If I was to take an educated guess I would say that the top people work their way to the top and want to be able to make decisions and shape their own destiny. From everything I have heard from FSG their Collegiate approach means that you are allowed an opinion and allowed to put across your point of view but don't really have the power to make decisions.

You don't work your nuts of to become one of the top people in your field to become a voice in the decision making process you want to the one who calls the shots. FSG's mantra seems to be to devolve power to a number of voices, why would a top CEO put up with that.

[Fromola]

If I was to take an educated guess I would say that the top people work their way to the top and want to be able to make decisions and shape their own destiny. From everything I have heard from FSG their Collegiate approach means that you are allowed an opinion and allowed to put across your point of view but don't really have the power to make decisions.

You don't work your nuts of to become one of the top people in your field to become a voice in the decision making process you want to the one who calls the shots. FSG's mantra seems to be to devolve power to a number of voices, why would a top CEO put up with that.

The thing for me, is I don't think we could attract a top CEO to that; but I do think we could attract a competent one and that's a lot more than what we've got at the minute.

I think Barwick would be a big improvement for a start. It's been suggested on this thread he's turned an offer down, but i'm not sure he has. Surely he'd take the job given a competitive salary in line with a top Premier League club.

[shelovesyou]

What does it take to be a good CEO ?
What are we looking for in one, for the good of the club ?

[Eeyore]

The thing for me, is I don't think we could attract a top CEO to that; but I do think we could attract a competent one and that's a lot more than what we've got at the minute.

I think Barwick would be a big improvement for a start. It's been suggested on this thread he's turned an offer down, but i'm not sure he has. Surely he'd take the job given a competitive salary in line with a top Premier League club.

Would Barwick in the middle of negotiations put up with having to ring America before he could make a decision. Would Barwick put up with coming up with a head coach only for it to be turned down by owners with no professional involvement in the Sport.

[Captain Marko Ramius]

Brian Barwick has been mentioned a few times? Wasn't he a joke at the FA? He appointed Mclaren.

[shelovesyou]

It 'seems' to me that our very own JW Henry see's himself as the man to take the big decisions regarding player recruitment, which is absolutely frightening.

[Captain Marko Ramius]

It 'seems' to me that our very own JW Henry see's himself as the man to take the big decisions regarding player recruitment, which is absolutely frightening.

What evidence is there for that? I mean 'seems' is all well and good but it's purely your unfounded opinion... at least it 'seems' that way to me.

[shelovesyou]

What evidence is there for that? I mean 'seems' is all well and good but it's purely your unfounded opinion... at least it 'seems' that way to me.

Its not my opinion at all, I havent a clue mate, but some very well placed people have alluded to it very strongly.

[Eeyore]

Brian Barwick has been mentioned a few times? Wasn't he a joke at the FA? He appointed Mclaren.

He was given a brief to appoint an English manager, when he was allowed free reign he managed to get Capello.

[Eeyore]

What evidence is there for that? I mean 'seems' is all well and good but it's purely your unfounded opinion... at least it 'seems' that way to me.

There is overwhelming evidence that it was Henry and Werner's decision to fire Dalglish and appoint Rodgers wouldn't you say ?

[shelovesyou]

There is overwhelming evidence that it was Henry and Werner's decision to fire Dalglish and appoint Rodgers wouldn't you say ?

Thats their job to be fair though Al, I didnt agree with it but they are well within their rights to make such a decision.

[JohnHobbes]

There is overwhelming evidence that it was Henry and Werner's decision to fire Dalglish and appoint Rodgers wouldn't you say ?

Owners sack manager they didn't think had performed. Plenty of evidence. Wow, just like any other club.

Allegation that JWH is looking to be the 'big man' regarding player purchases? No evidence at all. Full blown conjecture and suspicion only.

If he does see himself that way then I'm sure real evidence will appear soon enough and then the argument will be a valid one to have. Until then, maybe we should stick to the facts - makes for a far more interesting and less tin foil hat full blown conspiracy discussion...

[Captain Marko Ramius]

There is overwhelming evidence that it was Henry and Werner's decision to fire Dalglish and appoint Rodgers wouldn't you say ?

But what has that got to do with JWH being heavily involved in player recruitment?

I mean sacking and hiring manager's, whether you agree with individual cases or not, is a legitimate decision for owners to take. The accusation was he is trying to be/is involved heavily in recruiting players.

Two very different things.

[The G in Gerrard]

Both our biggest deals with SC and Warrior were nothing to do with Ayres. And now Hogan is in charge of that side of things so securing deals is down to him not IA.

So is his job purely to negotiate contracts and the sale of / purchasing of players?

[s4ffy1]

So is his job purely to negotiate contracts and the sale of / purchasing of players?

1) Is responsible for the day to day running of the club
2) The manager should report directly to the CEO (in Rodgers case he reports to the owners)
3) Strong business mind - oversee the financial side of the club in conjunction with the finance director
4) Football business knowledge - able to approve/veto decisions by manager/DOF on transfers (based on value for money)
5) Excellent negotiator
6) good presence both nationally as well internationally amongst peers.
7) Good media skills

[s4ffy1]

But what has that got to do with JWH being heavily involved in player recruitment?

I mean sacking and hiring manager's, whether you agree with individual cases or not, is a legitimate decision for owners to take. The accusation was he is trying to be/is involved heavily in recruiting players.

Two very different things.

Who vetoed the signing of Dempsey?

[Eeyore]

Owners sack manager they didn't think had performed. Plenty of evidence. Wow, just like any other club.

Allegation that JWH is looking to be the 'big man' regarding player purchases? No evidence at all. Full blown conjecture and suspicion only.

If he does see himself that way then I'm sure real evidence will appear soon enough and then the argument will be a valid one to have. Until then, maybe we should stick to the facts - makes for a far more interesting and less tin foil hat full blown conspiracy discussion...

What qualifications does JWH have to be hiring and firing Soccer managers ?

Shouldn't such decisions be made by a footballing board and by people with the requisite Football knowledge ?

What happened to the transfer committee and the Sporting director ?

The three people charged with running Liverpool Football Club are the Principal owner who has zero Football knowledge, Ayre who practically destroyed Huddersfield and Rodgers a manager with just over one years top flight experience.

If you had knowledgeable Football people around Ayre then you might just get away with him as MD, we haven't got that knowledge or even a proper structure in place so it is absolutely critical that we employ a proper Football administrator.

[JohnHobbes]

Who vetoed the signing of Dempsey?

Long story short, owners put in place restrictions, miscommunication happens and it gets screwed up. Hurrah, you're made me retype what has been written a thousand times before elsewhere.

This has been discussed ad infiniteum after the transfer window and is off topic to boot. This thread is about the CEO and not what the owners have done. Can we stick to the topic on hand?

[The G in Gerrard]

What qualifications does JWH have to be hiring and firing Soccer managers ?

What qualification does any owner of any other football club have though Al?

[JohnHobbes]

What qualifications does JWH have to be hiring and firing Soccer managers ?

Shouldn't such decisions be made by a footballing board and by people with the requisite Football knowledge ?

They own the club. That's qualification enough for every other football club. It's no different for us regardless of the fact it would be nice for the latter sentence to be true.

What happened to the transfer committee and the Sporting director ?

The three people charged with running Liverpool Football Club are the Principal owner who has zero Football knowledge, Ayre who practically destroyed Huddersfield and Rodgers a manager with just over one years top flight experience.

If you had knowledgeable Football people around Ayre then you might just get away with him as MD, we haven't got that knowledge or even a proper structure in place so it is absolutely critical that we employ a proper Football administrator.

Different question entirely. Nothing to do with JWH choosing managers. So for this specific question regarding an administrator, I'd answer to the affirmative that it would be highly beneficial to have someone with more experience as a CEO.

[Captain Marko Ramius]

Who vetoed the signing of Dempsey?

The signing of Dempsey adhered to the principle of signing younger players which, for want of a better word, is a directive to the wider philosophy of youth at the club.

It has been painfully obvious from the first days of their time here that they wanted younger players.

Also the Dempsey signing has been done to death on here, but again I hardly think it shows the implication the JWH is becoming more/is heavily involved in player recruitment. He simply dictated early in his time here they wanted younger players, they didn't tell anyone who those players should be.

[Eeyore]

What qualification does any owner of any other football club have though Al?

Most of them actually get to watch the games and surround themselves with Football people. How many competitive games has JWH actually seen in the flesh and where are the people on the board with Football knowledge and experience. I honestly cannot think of another industry where an owner with zero knowledge would try and run the show himself.

[The G in Gerrard]

Most of them actually get to watch the games and surround themselves with Football people. How many competitive games has JWH actually seen in the flesh and where are the people on the board with Football knowledge and experience. I honestly cannot think of another industry where an owner with zero knowledge would try and run the show himself.

It's a global game. He doesn't have to be there every week does he? I'm sure other owners have commitments that make it difficult for them to go Stamford Bridge or Villa Park for example. What I would like to know is who advises the owners when decisions are made as they suggest but that's veering from the thread.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

What was the other thread that was locked called that was filled with pages and pages of conjecture, speculation and conspiracy theories?

Key word: locked.

[bepoq]

It's a global game. He doesn't have to be there every week does he? I'm sure other owners have commitments that make it difficult for them to go Stamford Bridge or Villa Park for example. What I would like to know is who advises the owners when decisions are made as they suggest but that's veering from the thread.

Don't think it is a matter of "every week", just more than very occasionally—you ignored the lad's question—how many games has he been to in two years—it really isn't many and he's missed some important ones. You see Lerner and Abramovich watching fairly regularly and Abramovich at away games periodically. Not saying they have to be there all the time at all, but we have one individual at board level regularly about Liverpool or at games—compare that to any of our rivals (genuine or historical). It does seem rather odd and unhealthy to me.

[Warks Moustache]

Don't think it is a matter of "every week", just more than very occasionally—you ignored the lad's question—how many games has he been to in two years—it really isn't many and he's missed some important ones. You see Lerner and Abramovich watching fairly regularly and Abramovich at away games periodically. Not saying they have to be there all the time at all, but we have one individual at board level regularly about Liverpool or at games—compare that to any of our rivals (genuine or historical). It does seem rather odd and unhealthy to me.

The Glazers, Stan Kroenke and Joe Lewis do not show up to games but their clubs are in healthier positions on the pitch than ours. I can't imagine Villa supporters are particularly happy about Lerner even if he shows up to games.

How often does Sheik Mansour fly over to Manchester for a City game?

There is no correlation between an owner showing up to see games and a clubs success on the pitch.

[Cocomin]

What qualifications does JWH have to be hiring and firing Soccer managers ?

Shouldn't such decisions be made by a footballing board and by people with the requisite Football knowledge ?

What happened to the transfer committee and the Sporting director ?

The three people charged with running Liverpool Football Club are the Principal owner who has zero Football knowledge, Ayre who practically destroyed Huddersfield and Rodgers a manager with just over one years top flight experience.

If you had knowledgeable Football people around Ayre then you might just get away with him as MD, we haven't got that knowledge or even a proper structure in place so it is absolutely critical that we employ a proper Football administrator.

When you put it like that it's genuinely frightening we really need a proper football man in the upper echelons of our club the quicker the better.

[vivabobbygraham]

Add Comilli's wage onto Ayre's (presuming we got rid of him) and I still doubt it will be anywhere near what Tixi has demanded.

We have to spend within our means across all areas of the club. Ayre may not be good enough, but the club need to find someone who is both better and affordable, and then also wants to come to Liverpool and run the club day to day - those sorts of people probably aren't common.

Wild speculation. You have no idea what Tixi is on. You have no idea whether or not he turned us down earlier this seaon. This is pure guesswork yet you shout "source" when FSG come under attack. Where the fuck is your source for this drivel?

[bepoq]

The Glazers, Stan Kroenke and Joe Lewis do not show up to games but their clubs are in healthier positions on the pitch than ours. I can't imagine Villa supporters are particularly happy about Lerner even if he shows up to games.

How often does Sheik Mansour fly over to Manchester for a City game?

There is no correlation between an owner showing up to see games and a clubs success on the pitch.

right, not in a simplistic way (as you make it sound like I'm suggesting) no, but the Sheik, for example, has hired some good football administrators and not just one of them, to make up for his lack of presence and lack of direct control, whereas we haven't—is the point I'm trying to make (well, actually the point others are and that I think is a sensible one). I'd not have any complaints about them never turning up if they had more presence below them than Ian Ayre by himself—it is the combination of their lack of presence and the lack of a board under them with control in their stead that I struggle with, and that I suspect leads to deadline day type carry on. I can understand them not wanting to give absolute executive power to Ayre, but then they must either have some presence themselves (and even the time difference militates against doing it from afar—believe me, I'm an expert on that part of it to my chagrin) or hire some individual, or preferably several, that they trust to hold such power in their absence.