Topic: Shifting CEO standards? Coco the Clown vs Easy Rider

[SRAWL]

Wild speculation. You have no idea what Tixi is on. You have no idea whether or not he turned us down earlier this seaon. This is pure guesswork yet you shout "source" when FSG come under attack. Where the fuck is your source for this drivel?

I know not everyone believes what Balague says, but he usually "knows his onions" regarding Spanish players etc. and he said that FSG talked to Txiki, but they decided to go with just BR as manager. Kind of suggests that he was interested, but FSG changed their minds.

[vivabobbygraham]

I know not everyone believes what Balague says, but he usually "knows his onions" regarding Spanish players etc. and he said that FSG talked to Txiki, but they decided to go with just BR as manager. Kind of suggests that he was interested, but FSG changed their minds.

Did Balague mention salary to which the poster referred to? Quite prepared to believe Txiki was interested in the job whatever it was. Was highlighting the hypocrisy of the poster who always cries 'source' when opinion other than his is aired on the site yet has no qualms speculating himself. The Txiki saga was but one example of his 'opinion' regarding his salary at City.

[rossipersempre]

Did Balague mention salary to which the poster referred to? Quite prepared to believe Txiki was interested in the job whatever it was. Was highlighting the hypocrisy of the poster who always cries 'source' when opinion other than his is aired on the site yet has no qualms speculating himself. The Txiki saga was but one example of his 'opinion' regarding his salary at City.

But it's so easy isn't it, so convenient to look at City's executive recruitment, at top tier candidates we overlooked or spurned, and whine "we can't afford them". I guess it helps some people sleep at night.

[SRAWL]

Did Balague mention salary to which the poster referred to? Quite prepared to believe Txiki was interested in the job whatever it was. Was highlighting the hypocrisy of the poster who always cries 'source' when opinion other than his is aired on the site yet has no qualms speculating himself. The Txiki saga was but one example of his 'opinion' regarding his salary at City.

I was referring to the part where you said "You have no idea whether or not he turned us down earlier this seaon.". From what he said it appeared as if we turned him down. Not really bothered, I was merely putting it out there.

[Harinder]

I find football management interesting in this sense (going back to the OP!). Large organisations look to groom successors. Following basic principles of succession management akin to cognitive principles we've not had anything close to it since the boot room. Looking across the club we don't have this on or off the pitch

What we are blind to are the requirements the owners saw to fulfill for the postion Ian Ayre holds. We can hypothesise till the cows come home on what they should be and in many aspects I guess we'll be stuck at any comparisons being against this

A standard is something to uphold. We have diminished some along the way whilst upholding others. In that we have lost possibly some of what we were about. I stress possibly as the day we lost all sense of where we came from the club as we know it is gone. It could be that this is something the owners desire. This not to say a conspiracy theory can be formed... quite the opposite. Read it more like an evolution.

Ian Ayre doesn't say the right thing most of the time. He often can seem contradicting or too hidden from what is happening. In a world of job descriptions we don't have the blueprint of his and because of that all we have are glimpses either via television or what he says in interviews.

[west_london_red]

But it's so easy isn't it, so convenient to look at City's executive recruitment, at top tier candidates we overlooked or spurned, and whine "we can't afford them". I guess it helps some people sleep at night.

As I mentioned earlier, I doubt its so much what they get paid but more probably what they have at their disposal to spend that makes Man City more attractive then us. It makes the objectives for the likes of Tixi and co a lot easier to achieve, where as with us its gonna be nigh on impossible in the medium term considering where we are and what we have to spend.

As for getting to sleep, aint no point losing sleep over something you cant change.

[Rox]

It's amazing that even though everyone in this thread seems to agree that Ayre isn't good enough, people are still bickering between themselves about the level of incompetence.  Of which, nothing can be corroborated with any great certainty.  No-one can win or lose the argument.

So what's the point in arguing over it?

We agree that the right person needs to be found.  That leadership is crucial.  While we all argue about what's happened, surely it's more important to concentrate on the future structure of the board, and how that can move the club forward.

Henry and Werner need to look at the ineffective way the club has been run since the early/mid nineties and learn those lessons.  It's very easy when you're on the inside to miss the obvious.  And Ayre strikes me very much as one of those Apprentice candidates who is able to deflect blame and always look spotless.  That's a skill in itself.  Under a strong board, he can be focussed on a task and probably do well.

It might not be so easy to remove Ayre - who knows what agreements were made in the days following the takeover.

Without support from the board, Rafa's tenure ended.  A huge mistake we continue to pay for.

Brendan Rodgers could be the best managerial prospect in the world, but if the board is ineffectual, and the CEO/MD, whatever you want to call him is not the right man, it will never work.

But it is obvious that we need to find that top-class candidate.

[Fromola]

It's amazing that even though everyone in this thread seems to agree that Ayre isn't good enough, people are still bickering between themselves about the level of incompetence.  Of which, nothing can be corroborated with any great certainty.  No-one can win or lose the argument.

So what's the point in arguing over it?

We agree that the right person needs to be found.  That leadership is crucial.  While we all argue about what's happened, surely it's more important to concentrate on the future structure of the board, and how that can move the club forward.

Henry and Werner need to look at the ineffective way the club has been run since the early/mid nineties and learn those lessons.  It's very easy when you're on the inside to miss the obvious.  And Ayre strikes me very much as one of those Apprentice candidates who is able to deflect blame and always look spotless.  That's a skill in itself.  Under a strong board, he can be focussed on a task and probably do well.

It might not be so easy to remove Ayre - who knows what agreements were made in the days following the takeover.

Without support from the board, Rafa's tenure ended.  A huge mistake we continue to pay for.

Brendan Rodgers could be the best managerial prospect in the world, but if the board is ineffectual, and the CEO/MD, whatever you want to call him is not the right man, it will never work.

But it is obvious that we need to find that top-class candidate.

True.

[Eeyore]

But it's so easy isn't it, so convenient to look at City's executive recruitment, at top tier candidates we overlooked or spurned, and whine "we can't afford them". I guess it helps some people sleep at night.

The biggest problem with hiring big name successful people with a proven track record is that if it doesn't work then people are likely to start looking more closely at FSG. Much easier to hire people with iffy track records and then use your PR people to point the finger when it goes wrong. It worked with Comolli and Kenny and if things go wrong this season I am sure JWH will be all too willing to blame Ayre and Rodgers as Bobby V recently found out.

[rossipersempre]

The biggest problem with hiring big name successful people with a proven track record is that if it doesn't work then people are likely to start looking more closely at FSG. Much easier to hire people with iffy track records and then use your PR people to point the finger when it goes wrong. It worked with Comolli and Kenny and if things go wrong this season I am sure JWH will be all too willing to blame Ayre and Rodgers as Bobby V recently found out.

Is that the sibling of the Peter Principle, the Patsy Principle?

Comolli and Kenny aside, we've also seen FSG are not averse to doing the same (having PR pointing the finger) when it comes to player departures. Meireles and (if you believe certain version of events) Torres being classic examples.

And let's not forget, they've already sent their 'yes man' Ayre out to stir up the individual TV rights debate, and like the Jurassic Park goat, he came back with a limb chewed off. Henry & Werner kept well below the parapet and let him take the flak there, but in that sense, he's incredibly useful for them.

[Rox]

The biggest problem with hiring big name successful people with a proven track record is that if it doesn't work then people are likely to start looking more closely at FSG. Much easier to hire people with iffy track records and then use your PR people to point the finger when it goes wrong. It worked with Comolli and Kenny and if things go wrong this season I am sure JWH will be all too willing to blame Ayre and Rodgers as Bobby V recently found out.

That's rather contrived, really.  The idea of making sure you have scapegoats being more important than being successful, more profitable (and therefore make your investment more money) is not really plausible.

The biggest shame about your posts Al555 is that you could have the best point in the world, but it's so wrapped up in the larger picture of your anti-FSG arguments, that after a while it's easy to just look at your posts and tune out.  'There goes Al555 again' and the message - even if it is important and has a valid point, is lost.

This isn't me having a go, Al555.  I may not agree with everything you say, but your valid points are being lost in the prism of what you believe FSG are.

We all want to be vigilant after the H&G debacle, but don't become the poster who cried wolf.  The more your posts sound the same, the less people will listen.  I only say this because it's important people keep watch, and the facts are heard and absorbed.

Feel free to tell me to keep my trap shut, mind. 

[rossipersempre]

That's rather contrived, really.  The idea of making sure you have scapegoats being more important than being successful, more profitable (and therefore make your investment more money) is not really plausible.

He didn't say it was more important than being successful, just that it may very well be a consideration, to appoint malleable underachievers that will gladly dance to your tune and you can readily dispose of as and when necessary. It doesn't affect profits per se.

It's either that or they just really are spectacularly shite about putting the right people in place to lead the club forward. I'm not which is a worse scenario to be honest.

[Rox]

He didn't say it was more important than being successful, just that it may very well be a consideration, to appoint malleable underachievers that will gladly dance to your tune and you can readily dispose of as and when necessary. It doesn't affect profits per se.

It's either that or they just really are spectacularly shite about putting the right people in place to lead the club forward. I'm not which is a worse scenario to be honest.

If you're intending to make a profit, the latter is more likely than the former - especially if the owners are inexperienced in football.

[JohnHobbes]

He didn't say it was more important than being successful, just that it may very well be a consideration, to appoint malleable underachievers that will gladly dance to your tune and you can readily dispose of as and when necessary. It doesn't affect profits per se.

It's either that or they just really are spectacularly shite about putting the right people in place to lead the club forward. I'm not which is a worse scenario to be honest.

Of course it affects profits if the company hires 'malleable underachievers' just so they can be easily scapegoated rather than hiring the best person for the job.

The very notion is comical especially when discussing very successful business people who would hardly have made their fortunes in the past if their thinking was that skew whiff and they were just hiring such inferior candidates. Just another insinuation to bash FSG with. You're more correct that they've just made bad decisions in their learning process.

Hardly a fatal thing but an unfortunate one nonetheless. If it happened consistently for years then it'd be a big problem.

[The Flying Pig]

I suspect that Rodgers is more "malleable" than Rafa would have been.

Just saying,like.

[Captain Marko Ramius]

I suspect that Rodgers is more "malleable" than Rafa would have been.

Just saying,like.

I think that accusation is being made about Ayre. And also you don't know that at all.

Rafa could well have been willing to accept punitive terms for the chance to manage us again and Rodger's could be dictating to FSG about any number of things. Especially considering he said of Chelsea, a club he knows about pressure to bend to owners will, 'I'm trying to build a career not destroy one.'

Or we both could be wrong and just making wildly speculative and irrelevant points... 

[Eeyore]

That's rather contrived, really.  The idea of making sure you have scapegoats being more important than being successful, more profitable (and therefore make your investment more money) is not really plausible.

The biggest shame about your posts Al555 is that you could have the best point in the world, but it's so wrapped up in the larger picture of your anti-FSG arguments, that after a while it's easy to just look at your posts and tune out.  'There goes Al555 again' and the message - even if it is important and has a valid point, is lost.

This isn't me having a go, Al555.  I may not agree with everything you say, but your valid points are being lost in the prism of what you believe FSG are.

We all want to be vigilant after the H&G debacle, but don't become the poster who cried wolf.  The more your posts sound the same, the less people will listen.  I only say this because it's important people keep watch, and the facts are heard and absorbed.

Feel free to tell me to keep my trap shut, mind. 

No problem mate its a very fair point. What I would say though is that from everything I have read about FSG us that they rate number crunching above people. They don't really set out to hire the top coaches and administrators because their mantra is about minimising human emotion in decision making. For them there its the number crunching and analysis that matters and the less power you give to fallable individuals the better.

When things go wrong it is not the strategy that is at fault but the person not following the strategy properly. Pretty much exactly what they said when they fired Comolli. They then sought to break down Comollis role and to limit the damage one person could do.

They don't believe in exceptional people they believe in an exceptional strategy. So whilst we might see Ayre as a major problem and under qualified they probably see him as an expendable irrelevance. Limit his powers and get him to follow orders and his role is a marriage made in heaven. He gets the kudos of a job he is under qualified for and they get someone not that bothered about having the power to make major decisions.

[Eeyore]

I suspect that Rodgers is more "malleable" than Rafa would have been.

Just saying,like.

I would pay good money to see the reaction of Van Gaal if FSG had moved on his only number 9 and then baulked at paying an extra couple of million for a replacement.

[naka]

The summer fiasco is a difficult one to fathom especially
Ayres heading home early
I was thinking at the time that a more assured manager would have publically denounced the goings on
Hopefully BR will have learned and we get a striker in on 1jan not 31 jan

[west_london_red]

I suspect that Rodgers is more "malleable" than Rafa would have been.

Just saying,like.

Did you see the opening press confrence when Rodgers was appointed? The way he cut across Ayre when theey were asked a question about a DoF suggests hes not that malleable. If he was, im sure we would have had a DoF.

[Rox]

Did you see the opening press confrence when Rodgers was appointed? The way he cut across Ayre when theey were asked a question about a DoF suggests hes not that malleable. If he was, im sure we would have had a DoF.

I certainly agree with that.  However, I reckon had Rafa endured the damp squib that was the last transfer window, he'd have definitely made more noise.

[ElCapo]

But it's so easy isn't it, so convenient to look at City's executive recruitment, at top tier candidates we overlooked or spurned, and whine "we can't afford them". I guess it helps some people sleep at night.

Is Txiki all that?  Chatter from some Barca fans I know is that he was not that well respected there.

[No666]

The latest appointments - Borrell to technical director (Segura's old job) and Inglethorpe in for the ressies sounds sensible and considered, no?

[Draex]

The latest appointments - Borrell to technical director (Segura's old job) and Inglethorpe in for the ressies sounds sensible and considered, no?

Ayre is obviously plotting our downfall - Inglethorpe is a Utd fan.

[Red number seven]

The latest appointments - Borrell to technical director (Segura's old job) and Inglethorpe in for the ressies sounds sensible and considered, no?

Yes.

We have been getting the academy right since Rafa fought for and gained control of it and overhauled it. Benitez takes more credit than anyone currently at the club (except, perhaps I suppose, Borrell) for the current crop of youngsters graduating to first team action.

We have got a lot right commercially in the last few years.

We have been getting it wrong spectacularly in terms of the running of the first team, the approach to signings and transfer windows generally, the stability and trust in the position of manager and public relations for several years now. Started with Hicks and Gillett but the current incumbents, whilst nowhere near the level their predecessors, have not, as yet, done enough to convince that they have any idea about the running of a football club except the business basics of squeezing the dollar out of it. Not Hicks and Gillett is no longer good enough.

[Red number seven]

Ayre is obviously plotting our downfall - Inglethorpe is a Utd fan.

Given that Ayre, Parry and Purslow are all apparently Liverpool fans, perhaps it's not such a bad thing!

[willybeamin]

Isn't the norm, when filling a position like CEO or MD, to promote from within. Rarely do these positions be filled from outside the company. The time taken to learn the ropes would make doing so unbeneficial. Do we have anyone of a higher caliibre within our commercial ranks.

[vivabobbygraham]

Is Txiki all that?  Chatter from some Barca fans I know is that he was not that well respected there.

Rossis' post was in connection to scurrilous claims as to Txiki' salary at City and not his ability.

[vivabobbygraham]

Isn't the norm, when filling a position like CEO or MD, to promote from within. Rarely do these positions be filled from outside the company. The time taken to learn the ropes would make doing so unbeneficial. Do we have anyone of a higher caliibre within our commercial ranks.

The executive office cleaner?

[mikemac]

I suspect that Rodgers is more "malleable" than Rafa would have been.

Just saying,like.

FSG completely changed their planned structure for Rodgers...not someone who is 'malleable' is it!

[flying red]

The best we had was Peter Robinson and whilst a few of us might have recognised him, I don't think his voice was ever heard on TV or radio. Maybe the best plan for a CEO/MD is to be very low profile. Recent appointees have been carried away with the idea of having got their dream job. Purslow and Parry (deservedly) suffered similar criticism on here too.

Given that the CEO/MD is tasked with running the day to day on behalf of the owners, is it realistic to expect much of them? If the owners are fickle and change their minds on a whim, the CEO has got to cover their arses for them and remain loyal.

[The Flying Pig]

Isn't the norm, when filling a position like CEO or MD, to promote from within. Rarely do these positions be filled from outside the company. The time taken to learn the ropes would make doing so unbeneficial. Do we have anyone of a higher caliibre within our commercial ranks.

Joe Cole says the tea lady is very good at her job.

[rossipersempre]

Rossis' post was in connection to scurrilous claims as to Txiki' salary at City and not his ability.

Correct. And I was also referring to Soriano as well. Another missed opportunity. Whilst I can understand Txiki being passed up given FSG didn't pull their finger out to appoint a replacement DoF in the 3 months after they fired Comolli (which then left them wide open to Martinez's/Rodgers' veto of that role), what excuse was there to overlook a impressive CEO candidate like Soriano?

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Who would RAWK-ites like to see as Liverpool CEO/chairman/MD?

[Punter]

Hello, I was in business and saved the Olympics. After next week I should have plenty of time. I will need a big office with plenty of binder shelving. Is the office on the first floor because I hate elevators unless I am in one of my cars.

[Twelfth Man]

Who would RAWK-ites like to see as Liverpool CEO/chairman/MD?

Vladimir Putin.

[Mutton Geoff]

Who would RAWK-ites like to see as Liverpool CEO/chairman/MD?

Karen Brady she would look great astride a Harley.

[TarkaLFC]

Vladimir Putin.

Cue Polonium-210 in Whiskey-Nose's tea!

[Harinder]

Who would RAWK-ites like to see as Liverpool CEO/chairman/MD?

In a very uneducated sense, as we have no brief for this role, Craig Johnston 

Commercial nouse? - Adidas Predator
Fans - ex player, league/cup winner, return in 89 for supporting the city in hour of need
Direction? Found Liverpool via Middlesborough so can't be that bad

[Mutton Geoff]

In a very uneducated sense, as we have no brief for this role, Craig Johnston 

Commercial nouse? - Adidas Predator
Fans - ex player, league/cup winner, return in 89 for supporting the city in hour of need
Direction? Found Liverpool via Middlesborough so can't be that bad

Good call i always liked Craig , also you know Didi is a clever guy need to get him in the club somewhere