Topic: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?

[Tom_B]

I am sure he was agreeing with the notion that Kenny/Comolli did damage. I already said that the Kenny and H&G comparision is ridiculous, stupid, idiotic or whatever else you want to say.

Possibly, but he quoted the full post and said he agreed with it.

Wouldn't be hard to say "That first line is a fucking disgrace but I agree with the rest".

[greeny01]

I think Ayre is getting alot of unfair stick to be honest, he's more or less a one man band running the club away from the playing side. Should he be sorting Transfers, no...But who else would have had he not ?  That's not his fault and I don't think for the life in me that he is responsible for the disastrous summer transfer window last summer, so why does he get the blame ?...I think people turn on him as he's the face of the owners at the club day to day, but is it fair to blame him ?...I don't think it is, he needs more help from the owners and support from us.

[shelovesyou]

So who expects us toet top 4 this year now? More importantly, if we dont, how many of our 'senior players' are we likely to be able to keep?

Nobody expected it, if they did they are a bit deluded, no offence to them.
We werent going to win the league for years either, but FSG have a lot to answer for.

[Fitzy.]

Seriously can the shite be fucked off.

Comparing Kenny to H&G is not on, shouldn't be anywhere near the lips/keyboards of our supporters.

Honestly make me actually angry that someone could claim to support this club and actually say that or agree with it.

I agree that the comparison is crass and inaccurate but a reasonable assessment of last season's disaster has to happen if people are going to lambast the current transfer dealings. It does seem at times that last season and Kenny's sacking are so uncomfortable to think about that it gets taken out of the discourse. FSG invested massive money into Kenny's project and the results were a disaster. That spending has been reduced for understandable reasons and Rodgers knew what he was walking in to.

I just think many are happy to forget the £100m+ spending FSG have produced here. We've had some big sales but in comparison to teams around us we have spent a lot.

[peachybum]

Cull of the crap? Kuyt, Bellamy, Maxi are all useful players. None have been replaced (assuming Borini replaces Carroll)

None?

Kuyt - Assaidi
Bellamy - Sterling
Maxi - Cole
Carroll - Borini

I'm sorry these players positions in our first team squad have been filled. Whether they're an upgrade or downgrade is up to opinion.

[TSC]

You have no idea that is true. We have played 2 league games, in what way can you know how we will perform?

Err, early days it may be, but actually clear to anyone who watched the games that the same issues from last season (inability to put the ball in the net) is exactly the same problem we're suffering from this season.

So how do you fix this?  Well let's get rid of our centre forward and bring in .....no-one.

Yep that'll do the trick.

Isn't there some definition of insanity; 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results' or something? 

That's LFC all over. 

[mugsy]

We need a director of football.  The owners are irrelevant at the moment.  But someone who has been in the game for a long time either an ex player/manger or coach and it has to big name other clubs/players will respect and will work with BR.  Leave the managing coaching/new player suggestions to BR but the other sides of things like winning transfer deals, working with owners to advice them etc and get rid of Ayres and build a new board.  It's worked successfully in Spain and Italy.

[Spraynard Kruger]

...

Top post.

The "rose tinted glasses" comes in refusing to acknowledge that we could have handled the last 24 hours or so a lot better. But outside of that, I think a lot of what was done was quite positive.

[Black Bull Nova]

City, United, Chelsea. QPR and Sunderland may have come close, but I don't think they spent more.

Spurs had a good summer but not a patch on what we spent. I think we were fortunate not to lose anyone of the quality they did to be honest.

It was a good summer for us and I'm no spin doctor, it was just lacking that final move.

That's a bit like saying we got a good price for our house and we managed to buy a new caravan

[liverpoolfan1]

No-one said the supporters can question the owners, but question the owners when the dust settles and the facts are in.

At this moment in time, people are getting wound up by a fucking Sports News show on TV, which sensationalises and overreacts to every little whim.

Just because Jim White and co. say so, we should be resolute, calm and above fucking all, dignified.

Some beauts on here... well, need to get a grip.

Well it seemed to be precisely what you were trying to imply. And what more facts do you want exactly?

We got rid of more players than we brought in to try and cut down on the wage bill. Our forward line (which should have been our number 1 priority) actually looks weaker than last season and we are going to be over reliant on Suarez once again (and this time we are also in the Europa League). We had so much time to address this but waited till the last few hours of the transfer window to majorly stuff it up- refusing to pay a couple of extra million to land Dempsey and having no good plan B except for getting rid of Carroll early. Where exactly are the goals going to come from this season? What happens if Suarez gets injured?

Meanwhile Tottenham have signed Vertonghen, Adebayor, Lloris, Dempsey and Sigurddson. And they were already starting off from a higher position than us (finishing 4th last season vs 8th). And despite how one user tried to say that Arsenal are largely weakened because they have only signed 'unknown quantities' I would like to know which rock he has been living under as Giroud and Podolski are hardly some obscure players. And that's not even getting into the Manc sides or Chelsea.

Who exactly do we think we are even going to challange for 4th place? Absolute shambles and seriously expecting Suarez to leave next summer with the ambition we have shown- where reducing the wage bill is more important that actually fielding a strong team. And some people are gullible enough to lap all that up.

[Harinder]

OK, so without resorting to arguments etc what do we think the reasons behind it are?

As of yesterday daytime people on the whole would have been relatively happy with our dealings (I think). Agger and key players staying, a few fringe players sold, Allen and Sahin with realy quality and some promising youngsters. We knew Carroll may go but we fully expected a replacement and/or Dempsey whichobviously didn't materialise.

So all the promising bits are still in place as it were. Stupid question probably but I assume the club (manager/board whoever) were exopating a couple of extra additions to finish things off? So what went wrong?

Keep it civil!

My opinion

1 - Dempsey deal went sour due to Fulham demands. We must have a had a max to pay which wasn't the 5m +2 in addons. If we really wanted him and were serious he'd have been here a few weeks back. It therefore isn't a massive loss

2 - The players on the fringe were just that. Bench wasn't going to be an option for those who departed. Carroll is the only one who will baffle me to the end. I really wanted him to stay and fight. The club saw otherwise

3 - Sturridge and loan was the way Liverpool were led to believe being possible. It switches at the end and we don't budge

Did we cut off our nose to spite our face today? Maybe. Do we feel a huge anti-climax because of what was said this afternoon? Maybe

Are a lot of people pissed off? Definitely. Doing anything out of desperation though would have been foolish.

Only time will tell if we shot ourselves in the foot. Til then how can we miss something we've not had? (in the sense of not players not coming in)

[Red Razor]

I think Rodgers was pretty clear behind closed doors on the future of Carroll, Adam and Spearing at this club.

Looking for good deals in order to raise money for bringing in two attacking players to give Rodgers what he wanted should have been possible without doubt.

But it couldn´t be handled worse and considering that our top signings were all Rodgers connections, Sahin, Borini, Allen, you wonder if Ayre could have done any worse.

Rodgers is a new manager at a top club, he obviously wanted Dempsey. He did some really good business in and out for a decent net spend. BACK THE FUCKING MANAGERS DECISION FOR 6-7 MILLION.
Looks to me that the club decided they would right the wrongs of windows past and only pay their valuation - but thats bollox when you consider carrol out with no replacement - makes us look even more incompetent. We really do deserve a proper explanation around this as its baffling.

[Noble Nayudu]

Worst comment or not, atleast he is saying the bitter truth ! The early we accept it - the better !

What? Comparing Kenny to H&G is the bitter truth?

[Tom_B]

I agree that the comparison is crass and inaccurate

That is putting it mildly and frankly after reading that first line, I couldn't care less what that guy had to say.

[Fitzy.]

You have to ask?

I didn't agree with it either but I do find it nauseating when posters call for bans because someone has aired an unpopular opinion.

[AnfieldRD19]

So Andy Carroll or nothin, you prefer nothing.  If he stayed he would have had to have played him because we don't have enough strikers.

How can you blame Rodgers on that? He did everything he could to get another striker but had absolutely no backing from the management. With the amount of money we pissed away last summer Rodgers had been put into an extremely difficult situation here so stop fucking making these oblivious judgements

[Warks Moustache]

Err, early days it may be, but actually clear to anyone who watched the games that the same issues from last season (inability to put the ball in the net) is exactly the same problem we're suffering from this season.

So how do you fix this?  Well let's get rid of our centre forward and bring in .....no-one.

Yep that'll do the trick.

Isn't there some definition of insanity; 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results' or something? 

That's LFC all over.

We got rid of a centerforward who never played. Haven't lost much there. Playing Morgan in Carroll's place leaves  us in the same position we were in before Andy left.

[Fairytale of 2005]

It's not the same.

But it goes to show that people saying that the club can spend outside its means without fear of a Portsmouth or Ipswich scenario aren't basing those views in reality.

I have not seen one person suggest the club should spend outside of its means. Please direct me to where this has happened.

What I have seen, is genuine concern that our squad has been stripped threadbare. Worry about the incompetence of sending our record signing and only recognised striker out on loan with no replacement. To which our manager admitted was finance related. I have also seen questions as to why we have spent just under £2m on the playing squad, when you consider the wages we are about to save.

Do you think that is living beyond our means? Given our bumper sponsorship/kit/TV deals? I don't personally.

[suttonoot]

too many on hear going on about how much other teams have spent , and spurs didnt sign moutinho , who gives a shite , i worry about where our goals are coming from , and anyone doing kenny down wants to have a look at themselves , he happened to give a shit about us

[jamie_c]

He doesnt FIT IN with the system. He doesn't have the mobility on the ground, and cannot play a pressing game.

If we are in the unlikely position where Borini and Suarez are both injured or need to be rested, Brendan would rather give Morgan or Yesil a game, or even play Shelvey there.

He may not be the perfect fit, my point is that he is better than nothing, we have replaced him with nothing which makes me very angry.

[placidcasual]

Post of the thread.

All of this pathetic acting out and stomping of feet at the closing of this window, as though the blame were somehow directly at the feet of FSG and Ian Ayre.   The fact is that the club lost a ton of money on the last financial report, yet another lasting gift from H&G.  Couple that with the purchases last summer by Kenny and Comolli, regardless of net spend, and this summer transfer window was always going to be derailed in a major way. 

People don't have to like the owners, but they have been noting but honest in their statements.  They promised to run a self-sustaining club, which without wastefulness generates enough revenue to out-compete 99% of the clubs in Europe.  They said they would do everything than can to raise our revenue levels in order to increase the amount of money the club can spend.  And they are on the path to doing so.  Until we get a clean yearly financial report that doesn't reflect the sins of the past, we'll be pretty much where we are now.  Doesn't mean we'll finish as low as 8th, but that's the reality we're facing in the short term.

Unfortunately, last year's business in the player market has only served to put another anchor around the club's neck.  Meanwhile, having to pay off Dalglish, Comolli, etc, and bringing in Rodgers, further ate up a chunk of our purchasing power this year.

We all were preaching patience earlier this summer, with some fully realizing how monumental the challenge ahead will be.  Yet, now, it seems almost no one has even a functioning short term memory.  A bit of calm would do everyone some good.

For me, I was willing to be patient then and am willing to be patient two months later.  The business we have managed to do in this window has been hugely encouraging.  I, for one, am looking forward to this season.

I completely agree with what you say. Carroll being loaned out without a replacement was still a monumental error though.

[Mizerooskie]

Can't believe we've reduced the wage bill by £450k a week! that's £23m in the year.

Very shrewd, considering the quality (or lack their of) shipped out to achieve that reduction.  A huge positive going forward.

Lost in the deadline freak out is that it's been a very positive window on the balance.

Kuyt => Borini
Maxi => Assaidi
Bellamy => Sterling
Adam => Allen
Spearing => Sahin

That's a huge improvement in quality with a huge  reduction in wages.

The one mistake I believe that was made this window was not replacing Carroll.  That could cost us in both the league and cup competitions, but it's not fatal, considering Carroll's contribution last season.

This was never going to be a one-year turnaround.  Rodgers obviously has a vision for the team, and it will likely take several windows to get there.  It now looks like we are finally on stable financial footing to do so.

[bclfc]

I didn't want to believe it, but Fat Scouser warned us all along that we were being taken for a ride. 

[Eeyore]

The bottom line is if the Carroll deal becomes permanent then FSG have spent absolutely fuck all in three of the four windows since they arrived. Why did they buy a Club that was crying out for investment when they have absolutely no intention of investing. Managed decline has replaced existing to win trophies and the sooner we wake up to that the better.

[redhokie8]

You know I think mistakes were made from everyone, but we'll learn from it. Let's just stay optimistic. We still have a very good team, some younger players will be getting opportunities that hopefully they'll make the most of. Now it's time to worry about what actually matters! 

[TSC]

We need a director of football.  The owners are irrelevant at the moment.  But someone who has been in the game for a long time either an ex player/manger or coach and it has to big name other clubs/players will respect and will work with BR.  Leave the managing coaching/new player suggestions to BR but the other sides of things like winning transfer deals, working with owners to advice them etc and get rid of Ayres and build a new board.  It's worked successfully in Spain and Italy.

But but, whatever happened to their 'promise' post (disgraceful) sacking of Dalglish that they'd put in place such a proper structure as you mention?  That all went a bit quiet.  Since then they've allegedly emplyeed some director of comms who is usually found on twitter under the name of cheng yang or something.  Mere mortals may believe it's Ian Ayre taking the pish.

[rawcusk8]

Should have signed a striker to replace andy but i guess we will never know what really went on behind the scenes in terms of did they dupe rodgers in to thinking we would have a replacement. personally i dont think that is the case. We tried for dempsey but wernt Fulham being dicks about selling him to us? Also we have made some massive errors over the last few transfer windows, people moaned at paying over the odds for players and also handing out crazy wages. so when they tried to rectify this by shifting deadwood they are still getting abuse. Sahin and Assaidi can come in and certainly do a job for us, they could end up being great signings we just have to wait and see. Its only a few months till the next window, not like we cant buy again for the rest of the season. Our rivals for fourth did not have brilliant windows either, Arse definately weakend and you could argue that Spurs were weakened by the sales of Modric and Rafa. So again lets just wait and see how the next couple of months pan out before we all go crazy.

[danielfonseca]

Lets show our support for Brendan Rodgers on Sunday. But FSG and Ayre better get their shit together in January

BR not faultless mate, he should not sell carroll if no replacement done, he should spend money wisely , the whole world knew we needed a striker he spends 15 million on Allen and another unproven player in Borini ?  surely you have to use money efficiently right if budget tight right ?  Why buy Asiadi...for 3 million when you could have invested taht on dempsey offer if you really wnated him on top of what cash was offered today for dempsey..planning right ?

Ian ayre is no better than purslow we knew taht all along part of the old regime, but FSG decide to keep him and give him more power.

FSG as owners have not actually spent much if anything if you consider the players sold against palyers bought in price value, do the calculations and most of what has been sold has been used to buy new players, ..

[Licky]

If you were a senior player at LFC now, what would you be thinking about your chance of silverware and champions league football within the next three years ?

We've made our bed etc....

Welcome to moneyball. Not much fun is it.

[The G in Gerrard]

Today was a damn squib then eh. Has it been a massive mistake? Guess we will find out in next few months. I hope the likes of Pacheco and Suso are given a chance.

[scared_person]

A month ago all we who have doubts about FSG were told was "Wait until the transfer window closes". Now its closed and we've knocked over £20Million a year off the wage bill, left ourselves with 2 strikers and been unwilling or unable to stump up £6Million for one of our top targets we should still be following the FSG party line!?

Get it through your skulls, they're here to turn a profit and not to make LFC great again.

[Black Bull Nova]

The good thing is for the Arsenal game is that they want strikers even less than us. We haven't got the back up they didn't bother with the main choices.

Prediction

1-0

[bclfc]

The fact that Brendan made the comments he did in the last couple of days about needing striker reinforcements, then loaning Andy, and then not getting any replacement at all is a bit shocking. 

[Noble Nayudu]

I didn't agree with it either but I do find it nauseating when posters call for bans because someone has aired an unpopular opinion.

That is not an unpopular opinion but a disgraceful comment. He compared H&G with Kenny Dalglish.

[John C]

They won't back him if you're being honest.  They've no intentions of backing anyone.  They've geared up for a profitable sale.

I disagree with that mate, that's not how I read the situation, but of course I could be very wrong.

[Warks Moustache]

I didn't want to believe it, but Fat Scouser warned us all along that we were being taken for a ride. 

Edit: This post was over the top and not called for, especially when it was directed to Fat Scouser who indirectly got me reinvested in the day to day workings of a club I have been away from for so many years.

I disagree with his current opinions on the state of the club now, but he did not deserve the implicit dismissiveness of my original post. If you want to read what I said, I am sure there are a few posts around that quote it.

[TSC]

I didn't want to believe it, but Fat Scouser warned us all along that we were being taken for a ride. 

The bottom line is if the Carroll deal becomes permanent then FSG have spent absolutely fuck all in three of the four windows since they arrived. Why did they buy a Club that was crying out for investment when they have absolutely no intention of investing. Managed decline has replaced existing to win trophies and the sooner we wake up to that the better.

Exactly

[suttonoot]

We got rid of a centerforward who never played. Haven't lost much there. Playing Morgan in Carroll's place leaves int he same position we were in before Andy left.

who would you want to play against andy carroll or young adam , watched the lad last night he is not ready yet

[Mutton Geoff]

Please, point to one piece of evidence that this is Ayre's fault and not Rodgers'.

How about we stop attacking people at the club until we know what's gone on behind the scenes?

Naive much unless you think Rodgers was lying yesterday and today.

[Barry Banana]

The bottom line is if the Carroll deal becomes permanent then FSG have spent absolutely fuck all in three of the four windows since they arrived. Why did they buy a Club that was crying out for investment when they have absolutely no intention of investing. Managed decline has replaced existing to win trophies and the sooner we wake up to that the better.

Spot on.