Author Topic: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'  (Read 19505 times)

Offline SteveZissou

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This is a good article from the BBC. Faith. Patience. Time. Some of you might have already read it. I think we all need to.

Quote

Kenny Dalglish has described Liverpool's current form as the worst run he can remember as a manager, player and supporter.

But the Reds boss would do well to recall a dreadful six-game losing run he oversaw while in charge of Blackburn exactly 20 years ago.

The similarities are striking: Form that crumbled in March, big money signings failing to perform, and back page stories questioning whether 'King Kenny' could still cut it as a manager.

If Dalglish was to reflect on that run amid growing pressure at Liverpool he may find some reassurance at how quickly things can change.

The run ended with a draw, Liverpool's last result. Three years later, his team won the Premier League.

Now Dalglish's Liverpool have a chance to end their bad run at Ewood Park against Blackburn on Tuesday.

Blackburn record goalscorer Simon Garner, who was part of that 1991-92 squad, describes how Dalglish coped during such a bad run of form and what he did to turn it around.

TRAINING AND TACTICS

"He left all the coaching to Ray Harford [his assistant manager] who was a very, very good coach. Kenny would come in with a smile on his face and have a laugh and a joke.

"Every Friday we would have five-a-sides and Kenny would play. We wouldn't stop playing until Kenny had won a game. Kenny is happiest when he is around the training ground with a bunch of footballers.

"We didn't talk about the run in training. We approach every game the same way, training was the same. We carried on as normal.

"Generally, we used to train for the opposition. I remember one game against Charlton and Kenny said to Ray Harford 'we will play a long ball game just for one game as Charlton won't expect it'. We trained to that plan all week and won.

"However we never used to know the team until 2pm on matchday. Kenny wasn't afraid to change a team. Time and again he would come up with a selection you wouldn't have expected."

MAN-MANAGEMENT
"Some players need an arm around their shoulder, some need a telling off and Kenny understood that.

"When you were behind closed doors he could lose his temper. The only time this would happen was after a match when you'd had a bad game. But he wasn't one for throwing tea cups. Most of the time he would encourage you and this didn't change during a bad run.

"He wouldn't get annoyed as long as you worked hard and were giving everything you could give. If you worked your socks off he would understand."

HANDLING THE PRESS

"Kenny would always defend the players to the press and public, like he does with Liverpool now. We appreciated that.

"You don't want to read your manager in the papers saying you were having a bad time. Kenny never let that happen.

"He tried not to let the players feel the pressure and it helped. We were expected to get promoted because of all the money Jack Walker had spent.

"At the back of your mind you were thinking about it, but it wasn't talked about during the run so you didn't dwell on it."

SIGNINGS
"Back then you could sign players until March. He is missing a goalscorer at Liverpool. At Blackburn he was able to go out and buy players to try and get the goals mid season.

"He was happy to sign a player to do a job and get us up a division knowing he would replace them in the summer. You can't make those signings now with the transfer window.

"If he is still in charge in the summer there will be a lot of changes."

TURNING POINT
"We had a great team spirit. I don't think you get that so much nowadays in the Premier League. The game is so different. There are so many foreign players.

"Back then all the players stuck together and got on well, socialised together. I don't think that happens in the modern game.

"In that run it wasn't happening for us but we all thought deep down that we could turn it around.

"Kenny lives for football and I think he will be playing it similar to how he did it at Blackburn in that he will have the belief they are good enough.

"He will be hurting. Liverpool is in his heart. He looks older and tense this season. He looks like he is under pressure but he will try not let that get to the players.

"When you look at their squad they have enough to stop the run and he still has the FA Cup to go for."

By Ian Singleton
BBC Sport



This is the current equivalent of my old topic at the end of the Benitez reign: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=255092.msg6714895#msg6714895


Rafa's Valencia 2001-2004: Pick the odd La Liga season out

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2001-2002: 1st
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« Last Edit: April 9, 2012, 01:08:28 pm by SteveZissou »
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #1 on: April 9, 2012, 01:59:01 pm »
To be brutally honest an article which points out that Dalglish's coaching was done by Ray Harford and had 5-asides and 'smiles on faces' on Fridays with Dalglish being the 'arm round the shoulder' really doesn't inspire me with confidence that he'll turn it around now. Thankfully the article is so vague and detail free that we can't really draw any sensible conclusions about his methods one way or another.

What did Harford actually do as a coach, for example? It can't have been just 5-a-sides and telling the lads to play more direct this week. How did he actually enable the team to be tactically flexible or whatever? What drills did he use? Did he favour zonal marking? Very little actual detail there.

Indeed, the article is so vague on specifics that, really, it doesn't actually offer much insight into how he turned it around then, let alone as to how he might/is doing it now. The only bits of real info it gives are stuff we knew anyway - that Kenny is hands off when it comes to the actual coaching nitty-gritty, but he's an excellent man-manger who likes 5-a-sides.
« Last Edit: April 9, 2012, 02:01:11 pm by hesbighesred »
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Offline rocco

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #2 on: April 9, 2012, 02:07:45 pm »
"He left all the coaching to Ray Harford [his assistant manager] who was a very, very good coach.

Surprised to read that.

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #3 on: April 9, 2012, 02:08:07 pm »
To be brutally honest an article which points out that Dalglish's coaching was done by Ray Harford and had 5-asides and 'smiles on faces' on Fridays with Dalglish being the 'arm round the shoulder' really doesn't inspire me with confidence that he'll turn it around now. Thankfully the article is so vague and detail free that we can't really draw any sensible conclusions about his methods one way or another.

What did Harford actually do as a coach, for example? It can't have been just 5-a-sides and telling the lads to play more direct this week. How did he actually enable the team to be tactically flexible or whatever? What drills did he use? Did he favour zonal marking? Very little actual detail there.

Indeed, the article is so vague on specifics that, really, it doesn't actually offer much insight into how he turned it around then, let alone as to how he might/is doing it now. The only bits of real info it gives are stuff we knew anyway - that Kenny is hands off when it comes to the actual coaching nitty-gritty, but he's an excellent man-manger who likes 5-a-sides.

There are plenty of managers who dont do a great deal of coaching themselves.

Ferguson and Redknapp being two of them. It's called delegation.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #4 on: April 9, 2012, 02:10:25 pm »
"He left all the coaching to Ray Harford [his assistant manager] who was a very, very good coach.

Surprised to read that.
Plenty of managers don't coach - Ferguson and Redknapp, for example. Though it does beg some questions in terms of our structure - in Europe with the DOF it's usually the DOF has more power with signings etc (though the manager very often has important input, at the least) while the 'coach' is pretty hands-on in training.
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Offline Garcepticon

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #5 on: April 9, 2012, 02:11:10 pm »
Since Kenny demands 100% from his players, I wonder if he screamed at Gerrard after his walking performance against Newcastle.
« Last Edit: April 9, 2012, 02:15:00 pm by Garcepticon »

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #6 on: April 9, 2012, 02:12:53 pm »
There are plenty of managers who dont do a great deal of coaching themselves.

Ferguson and Redknapp being two of them. It's called delegation.
I know. I don't have a problem with that whatsoever, that's why I was asking what it was that Ray Harford actually specifically did, because without that info it's a fairly pointless article, IMO.

As I said, I think it does beg a question in terms of our structure but I don't have any problem with the principle of it whatsoever. Just that what little detail IS contained in the article doesn't give me any reason to be optimistic now, and equally the sheer lack of detail doesn't give me a reason to be pessimistic either. To me it's pretty much a nothing article either way - again, the only details it gives are stuff we already knew anyway.
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Offline rocco

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #7 on: April 9, 2012, 02:15:48 pm »
Plenty of managers don't coach - Ferguson and Redknapp, for example. Though it does beg some questions in terms of our structure - in Europe with the DOF it's usually the DOF has more power with signings etc (though the manager very often has important input, at the least) while the 'coach' is pretty hands-on in training.
True , but thought Kenny was more hands on any photos in training isn't Kenny always there.

Offline Walk on, walk on

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #8 on: April 9, 2012, 02:17:29 pm »
TURNING POINT

"We had a great team spirit. I don't think you get that so much nowadays in the Premier League. The game is so different. There are so many foreign players.

"Back then all the players stuck together and got on well, socialised together. I don't think that happens in the modern game.

I'm getting quite sick of these johnny foreigner moans. Look at how well our 'buy british' turned out for us. At least someone is happy.

"We've got a great togetherness about the squad, there's a lot of British players there now," Jamie Carragher said last October. "We went for a meal out before the derby and it was interesting that my wife could actually talk to some of the other wives without having to think of something in Spanish or French or something different. I think that will be a great thing for us this season."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/rafas-ghost-haunts-anfield-succession-of-trial-and-error-3067627.html
Liverpool don't turn up against shit teams so Wenger picks the shittest line up possible.
The man is a genius!

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #9 on: April 9, 2012, 02:19:05 pm »
True , but thought Kenny was more hands on any photos in training isn't Kenny always there.
Not being hands on doesn't mean there isn't a role to play in terms of encouragment or supervision or whatever. To put it another way, Rafa was as hands-on as it gets yet he still had Sammy Lee with him every session. Presumably there's enough work for two people to do, just depends how the roles are split.
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Offline shafticus

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #10 on: April 9, 2012, 02:21:10 pm »
I'm getting quite sick of these johnny foreigner moans. Look at how well our 'buy british' turned out for us. At least someone is happy.

"We've got a great togetherness about the squad, there's a lot of British players there now," Jamie Carragher said last October. "We went for a meal out before the derby and it was interesting that my wife could actually talk to some of the other wives without having to think of something in Spanish or French or something different. I think that will be a great thing for us this season."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/rafas-ghost-haunts-anfield-succession-of-trial-and-error-3067627.html

ugh hadn't seen that before.  what a bunch of bullshit
I read in Wikipedia that his full name is Andrew Thomas Carroll. Such a beautiful name. By the way,

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #11 on: April 9, 2012, 02:21:43 pm »
I'm getting quite sick of these johnny foreigner moans. Look at how well our 'buy british' turned out for us. At least someone is happy.

"We've got a great togetherness about the squad, there's a lot of British players there now," Jamie Carragher said last October. "We went for a meal out before the derby and it was interesting that my wife could actually talk to some of the other wives without having to think of something in Spanish or French or something different. I think that will be a great thing for us this season."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/rafas-ghost-haunts-anfield-succession-of-trial-and-error-3067627.html
What's team spirit anyway?

For me it's the mentality they show on the pitch. I couldn't give a fuck if they're mates off it or not. Best team spirit I've seen at this club by miles was in 08/09, though the treble season was remarkable as well. Both teams with plenty of foreign players.

On the other hand Evans' team got on great off the pitch but, especially towards the end, were shockingly unprofessional and total bottlers on the pitch.
He is the cat who walks by himself, and all roads are alike to him.

Offline rocco

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #12 on: April 9, 2012, 02:24:56 pm »
Not being hands on doesn't mean there isn't a role to play in terms of encouragment or supervision or whatever. To put it another way, Rafa was as hands-on as it gets yet he still had Sammy Lee with him every session. Presumably there's enough work for two people to do, just depends how the roles are split.

Prefer to think the Manager is hands on , If he is down at every training session that's hands on IMO

I don't expect Kenny to be taken every session but to be there telling his staff/team what had to be done  ,  taken that's been told before they reach training  , I'd expect him to be there watching and keeping a eye on all the players with the game in mind .
« Last Edit: April 9, 2012, 02:30:38 pm by rocco »

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #13 on: April 9, 2012, 02:25:06 pm »
I'm getting quite sick of these johnny foreigner moans. Look at how well our 'buy british' turned out for us. At least someone is happy.

"We've got a great togetherness about the squad, there's a lot of British players there now," Jamie Carragher said last October. "We went for a meal out before the derby and it was interesting that my wife could actually talk to some of the other wives without having to think of something in Spanish or French or something different. I think that will be a great thing for us this season."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/rafas-ghost-haunts-anfield-succession-of-trial-and-error-3067627.html
Coming to think of it I'd be amazed if the wives of the likes of Alonso, having been here for several years, didn't speak very good English anyway. Certainly all the players spoke good English - Alonso spoke much better English than any of our English players did - Rafa fined them if they didn't. Hard to believe that most of the wives only spoke in their native tongue when pretty much every educated European under the age of about 40 has a pretty decent working knowledge of basic English anyway. Besides which, what language do you suppose the Spanish wives used to talk to the Dutch wives, the Italian wives and the Brazilian wives etc? I'll bet it wasn't French.
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Offline Walk on, walk on

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #14 on: April 9, 2012, 02:25:25 pm »
What's team spirit anyway?

For me it's the mentality they show on the pitch. I couldn't give a fuck if they're mates off it or not. Best team spirit I've seen at this club by miles was in 08/09, though the treble season was remarkable as well. Both teams with plenty of foreign players.

On the other hand Evans' team got on great off the pitch but, especially towards the end, were shockingly unprofessional and total bottlers on the pitch.

Sigh, so true. There are people who hold Carra and Stevie to be the epitome of the club but I can't help but feel this constant braying about too many foreigners is one factor in our decline for the past 2 seasons.
Liverpool don't turn up against shit teams so Wenger picks the shittest line up possible.
The man is a genius!

Offline kidnesiac

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #15 on: April 9, 2012, 02:26:59 pm »
I'm getting quite sick of these johnny foreigner moans. Look at how well our 'buy british' turned out for us. At least someone is happy.

"We've got a great togetherness about the squad, there's a lot of British players there now," Jamie Carragher said last October. "We went for a meal out before the derby and it was interesting that my wife could actually talk to some of the other wives without having to think of something in Spanish or French or something different. I think that will be a great thing for us this season."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/rafas-ghost-haunts-anfield-succession-of-trial-and-error-3067627.html

No wonder why Mascherano and his wife left.

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #16 on: April 9, 2012, 02:28:02 pm »
Since Kenny demands 100% from his players, I wonder if he screamed at Gerrard after his walking performance against Newcastle.
I don't know, but I think he might have had a word at half time agaisnt Villa. Gerrard stepped it up significantly in the second half.

to be honest I like that article (apart from the moan about foreigners). It ties in quite well with what our players have said recently. Stuff like that that Kenny's big on team spirit, that we don't change our approach in training, that he's trying to shield the players from the pressure. Also with that Clarke interview where he said he's mainly planning the training sessions. I too believe we have enough to turn it around, and we're not as bad as our results say. Onwards and upwards.
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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #17 on: April 9, 2012, 02:29:21 pm »
No wonder why Mascherano and his wife left.

If I had xenophobic teammates like that I'd have packed it up far earlier than Masch did.
Liverpool don't turn up against shit teams so Wenger picks the shittest line up possible.
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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #18 on: April 9, 2012, 02:30:00 pm »
1980s Liverpool star Gary Gillespie has revealed that when Kenny Dalglish managed the Reds the first time around, the legend learnt that football shouldn’t be over complicated.

Gillespie was part of the multiple-trophy winning side of 1988/89, and the former defender said that while Dalglish was player/manager at Anfield, he preferred a simpler format of coaching. 

"When I say this to people they’re amazed: In 8 years at Liverpool, the days we were actually coached I can count on one hand. We were just told to go out and play,” he said.

"At times, the game becomes a little bit too technical and...I think formations sometimes go out the window. Ultimately, with good players in the side...that know the game, and know exactly what they’re doing...they'll find their positions.".

"You’ve got to have a structure to work with, but too much is made of it. Within that structure you’ve got to have license, and think since Kenny’s come in, he’s given them a bit more license to express themselves".


http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/dalglishs-anti-technical-tactics-revealed

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #19 on: April 9, 2012, 02:30:40 pm »
Prefer to think the Manager is hands on , If he is down at every training session that's hands on IMO
Eh?

No it isn't. If you work in a factory your line manager will be there all the time supervising what goes on. Doesn't mean he's getting 'hands on' with the actual work that's being done. What's important is that he understands something of the process, not that he actually puts the i-pod together himself or whatever.

Kenny will, I imagine (and as implied in the article) give broad instructions like: 'lets play more direct this week and try to isolate their left back', it's up to the coach how to implement that.

Hands on is stuff like Rafa walking up and down the pitch holding the ball telling the players where to position themselves relative to where the ball is. Mourinho did similar stuff too. Just have a hunt around for stuff that the likes of Johnson, Gerrard or Torres said about Rafa's coaching and you'll see what I mean by hands on.

All the players speak glowingly of Kenny but it's telling (in terms of the hands-on stuff) that I haven't heard one mention anything that Kenny has done directly to improve their games, or to tell them to work on or whatever. Compare that to Gerrard's story about Rafa basically nagging on at him to use his left foot more, or Torres saying that if Rafa tells you to be 5 metres closer to goal (or whatever) you'd better be there because it will make a difference.

He is the cat who walks by himself, and all roads are alike to him.

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #20 on: April 9, 2012, 02:30:49 pm »
What's team spirit anyway?

For me it's the mentality they show on the pitch. I couldn't give a fuck if they're mates off it or not. Best team spirit I've seen at this club by miles was in 08/09, though the treble season was remarkable as well. Both teams with plenty of foreign players.

On the other hand Evans' team got on great off the pitch but, especially towards the end, were shockingly unprofessional and total bottlers on the pitch.

wasnt it cole and sheringham who didnt speak for years off the pitch at united but still had a great partnership? off the field means fuck all, the be all and end all is on the pitch, they should graft for each other whether they cant stand each other or understand what the fuck they are talking about

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #21 on: April 9, 2012, 02:36:13 pm »
On the other hand Evans' team got on great off the pitch but, especially towards the end, were shockingly unprofessional and total bottlers on the pitch.
since winning the league the biggest shithouse teams we had tended to be the more british ones, whereas the ones with the best attitude tended to be predominately foreign. dont think thats a coincidence at all

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #22 on: April 9, 2012, 02:36:21 pm »
It's worrying if that really is the same approach we're taking now, in my view. Doesn't bode well for continuity from the academy either. It also puts an enormous onus on Steve Clarke, and while he's an excellent coach, there's certainly nothing in his track record to give us reason to believe we're going to be changing to an aggressive pressing, possession based game. If that's actually the direction we want to go as a club - continuity with the academy, that kind of style of play - I've seen nothing to suggest we're likely to get it with this management team.

So if we want to keep faith in Kenny and Clarke it begs the question: What do we do with the academy? Because it's pointless training them from year dot in a particular system only to have them come through to a different system, especially since we clearly are setting store on the academy to produce future squads.

It would be like Barcelona changing their style of play to, say, Man Utd's yet keeping La Masia and the B teams exactly as they are. I wonder if Xavi and Iniesta would have flourished there if they'd done that?
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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #23 on: April 9, 2012, 02:39:47 pm »
wasnt it cole and sheringham who didnt speak for years off the pitch at united but still had a great partnership? off the field means fuck all, the be all and end all is on the pitch, they should graft for each other whether they cant stand each other or understand what the fuck they are talking about

Tommy Smith and Emlyn Hughes notoriously hated each other, no?
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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #24 on: April 9, 2012, 02:40:05 pm »
wasnt it cole and sheringham who didnt speak for years off the pitch at united but still had a great partnership? off the field means fuck all, the be all and end all is on the pitch, they should graft for each other whether they cant stand each other or understand what the fuck they are talking about
Yep.
since winning the league the biggest shithouse teams we had tended to be the more british ones, whereas the ones with the best attitude tended to be predominately foreign. dont think thats a coincidence at all
Does seem a bit that way doesn't it? That said, I wouldn't bracket the current lot in with Evans' teams, for example. A lot of the younger British players now are as professional in terms of diet and lifestyle etc as most foreign players are - I'm pretty sure that Henderson, for example, is fairly exemplary on and off the pitch in that respect, as were Gerrard and Carra, or certainly after Houllier got hold of them.
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Offline LFCsupporter

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #25 on: April 9, 2012, 02:41:29 pm »
It's a bit ironic that the article tries to draw similiarities with the past while admitting that it's a totally different game now :-\

Offline TLW 84

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #26 on: April 9, 2012, 02:42:00 pm »
If I had xenophobic teammates like that I'd have packed it up far earlier than Masch did.
How do you know that he wasn't just tying to take a positive out of the situation and that he was a Xenophobe who Masch and his Mrs couldn't stand any longer?

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #27 on: April 9, 2012, 02:42:43 pm »
I don't get the article, it doesn't explain how Kenny turned it around at Blackburn does it?

Offline masterbaker

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #28 on: April 9, 2012, 02:43:07 pm »

So if we want to keep faith in Kenny and Clarke it begs the question: What do we do with the academy? Because it's pointless training them from year dot in a particular system only to have them come through to a different system, especially since we clearly are setting store on the academy to produce future squads.

It would be like Barcelona changing their style of play to, say, Man Utd's yet keeping La Masia and the B teams exactly as they are. I wonder if Xavi and Iniesta would have flourished there if they'd done that?

thats a great point wasnt one of rafa's main points in reshaping the academy that he wanted the whole club from the kids to the 1st team to play the same system, so the transition would be easier when they made the step up?

Offline Garcepticon

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #29 on: April 9, 2012, 02:44:39 pm »
1980s Liverpool star Gary Gillespie has revealed that when Kenny Dalglish managed the Reds the first time around, the legend learnt that football shouldn’t be over complicated.

Gillespie was part of the multiple-trophy winning side of 1988/89, and the former defender said that while Dalglish was player/manager at Anfield, he preferred a simpler format of coaching. 

"When I say this to people they’re amazed: In 8 years at Liverpool, the days we were actually coached I can count on one hand. We were just told to go out and play,” he said.

"At times, the game becomes a little bit too technical and...I think formations sometimes go out the window. Ultimately, with good players in the side...that know the game, and know exactly what they’re doing...they'll find their positions.".

"You’ve got to have a structure to work with, but too much is made of it. Within that structure you’ve got to have license, and think since Kenny’s come in, he’s given them a bit more license to express themselves".


http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/dalglishs-anti-technical-tactics-revealed

Ultimately, we might not have the players to do this - especially if we lose Maxi and Kuyt, two players who offer intelligent movement.

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #30 on: April 9, 2012, 02:44:59 pm »
thats a great point wasnt one of rafa's main points in reshaping the academy that he wanted the whole club from the kids to the 1st team to play the same system, so the transition would be easier when they made the step up?
Yes, and it's a huge part of what Barca are all about, and indeed Spanish and Dutch football in general (who also share the common link of Michels and then Cruyff who took that system to Barca in the first place).
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Offline BCCC

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #31 on: April 9, 2012, 02:45:54 pm »
It's worrying if that really is the same approach we're taking now, in my view. Doesn't bode well for continuity from the academy either. It also puts an enormous onus on Steve Clarke, and while he's an excellent coach, there's certainly nothing in his track record to give us reason to believe we're going to be changing to an aggressive pressing, possession based game. If that's actually the direction we want to go as a club - continuity with the academy, that kind of style of play - I've seen nothing to suggest we're likely to get it with this management team.

So if we want to keep faith in Kenny and Clarke it begs the question: What do we do with the academy? Because it's pointless training them from year dot in a particular system only to have them come through to a different system, especially since we clearly are setting store on the academy to produce future squads.

It would be like Barcelona changing their style of play to, say, Man Utd's yet keeping La Masia and the B teams exactly as they are. I wonder if Xavi and Iniesta would have flourished there if they'd done that?

Academies aren't set up to produce squads they are set up to nurture talent. Some academy teams are built purely to progress one or two players.
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Offline QC

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #32 on: April 9, 2012, 02:47:17 pm »
I'll only be worried if Kenny doesn't make changes to the squad this summer; the replacement of Andy Carroll in particular.

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #33 on: April 9, 2012, 02:47:37 pm »
Bebeto and Romario hated each other off the pitch but on the pitch they were great.
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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #34 on: April 9, 2012, 02:48:39 pm »
Eh?

No it isn't. If you work in a factory your line manager will be there all the time supervising what goes on. Doesn't mean he's getting 'hands on' with the actual work that's being done. What's important is that he understands something of the process, not that he actually puts the i-pod together himself or whatever.

Kenny will, I imagine (and as implied in the article) give broad instructions like: 'lets play more direct this week and try to isolate their left back', it's up to the coach how to implement that.

Hands on is stuff like Rafa walking up and down the pitch holding the ball telling the players where to position themselves relative to where the ball is. Mourinho did similar stuff too. Just have a hunt around for stuff that the likes of Johnson, Gerrard or Torres said about Rafa's coaching and you'll see what I mean by hands on.

All the players speak glowingly of Kenny but it's telling (in terms of the hands-on stuff) that I haven't heard one mention anything that Kenny has done directly to improve their games, or to tell them to work on or whatever. Compare that to Gerrard's story about Rafa basically nagging on at him to use his left foot more, or Torres saying that if Rafa tells you to be 5 metres closer to goal (or whatever) you'd better be there because it will make a difference.


Very true , but I was more on about Kenny been there at training and seeing how the players are performing and giving input to his staff if needed , than been up in his office doing other stuff.

Hands on approach that Rafa done is totally different and what I'd expect from a Manager .But who is to say what is best ?

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #35 on: April 9, 2012, 02:48:47 pm »
How do you know that he wasn't just tying to take a positive out of the situation and that he was a Xenophobe who Masch and his Mrs couldn't stand any longer?
He might be going a bit far but it's a fucking wank 'positive' don't you think? Having lived in England all my life but also spent plenty of time abroad or with people from different countries here in England I can tell you for sure that one thought I have never EVER had chatting to a group from all sorts of nations is 'gosh, I wish there were more Brits here so that my wife/G/F could relate to them'.

There's an implied xenophobia in that statement that's slightly unpleasant, in my view, even if you take the comment in the most positive possible way.
I don't get the article, it doesn't explain how Kenny turned it around at Blackburn does it?
Nope. It doesn't say anything beyond Kenny being hands-off, a good man-manager and fond of 5-a-sides, all of which we knew and were common knowledge anyway.
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Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #36 on: April 9, 2012, 02:51:57 pm »
He might be going a bit far but it's a fucking wank 'positive' don't you think? Having lived in England all my life but also spent plenty of time abroad or with people from different countries here in England I can tell you for sure that one thought I have never EVER had chatting to a group from all sorts of nations is 'gosh, I wish there were more Brits here so that my wife/G/F could relate to them'.

There's an implied xenophobia in that statement that's slightly unpleasant, in my view, even if you take the comment in the most positive possible way.

pretty sure there's a bit in his book too about how his brothers couldnt get work 'because there are too many foreigners' and all that shit

Offline eirwen

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #37 on: April 9, 2012, 02:52:15 pm »
hmm this is interesting. I never thought about it but maybe the solution to our problem should be getting a better coach specialized in attacking? I do think coaching is important, rather than an arm around the shoulder and just let the players do their thing.

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #38 on: April 9, 2012, 02:52:24 pm »
Academies aren't set up to produce squads they are set up to nurture talent. Some academy teams are built purely to progress one or two players.

Sorry mate but that's bullshit. Clearest example being Barca this season. The reason Cuenca and Tello have almost flawlessly integrated into the system is that they were taught to play that way from day 1, so when the call came they'd be ready. Our first team plays an entirely different game to the reserves and youth teams. Sterling made an impact because he is a direct player with pace in abundance, Bellamy-lite if you will. We also have Suso, one of the most talented players in the reserves. Him coming into the team now with the way it's set up is like asking a Rhinoceros to dance ballet and thusly the acadamy produces and nurtures talent that has no impact on the squad.
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Offline smicer07

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Re: 'How Kenny Dalglish turned a six-game losing run into glory'
« Reply #39 on: April 9, 2012, 02:52:31 pm »
I'll only be worried if Kenny doesn't make changes to the squad this summer; the replacement of Andy Carroll in particular.

Or keep the lad and play to his strengths.