Topic: Charlie Adam - Sensible Discussion.

[TSC]

Is it just me who finds it utterly hilarious that when Lucas was struggling here it was never about his price or what he had previously accomplished?

Why didn't we ever hear things like "Lucas is a 5 million pound player, we got what we payed for" or "He was never meant to be anything more than a squad player and injuries and the sale of others have meant that he played far more games than he was bought for." "He's a good player or the manager never would've picked him" "He has played at an international level so he obviously isn't as shite as you make him out to be."

Funny how these things work

'cos this thread is a joke really, populated by usual suspects who never go to games.  But forums like this elevate their sense of importance and self worth.  Some twat earlier in another thread actually posted 'if Kenny is not up to scratch then we will tell him on here'.

As if Dalglish would waste his breath on here on the eve of Sunderland.

[Vulmea]

Why i mention about selection was about his ability mate i questioning why with all his limits does he still get picked over others? He not shit but he certainly not great yet, he picked regardless and then to add to it he defended. Which is fine to defend him but come on the price tag ?? or injuries? i mean is that really excuse for us to accept poor performance from lad? As some one stated this was not acceptable for Lucas or Insua so Adam should be treated same its not acceptable regardless his role in team his price tag or injuries to other players.

But isn't that about 'management' some players to get the best from them you kick up the arse others you drop. others you praise. I'm not sure we are best placed to second guess why certain players are selected and others not. All we see is 90 minutes - so yeah we can say based on this game or that game ceratin players should be picked but - we haven't see how they train , how they respond to an arm round teh shoulder or a growl, whether the manager feels they need their confidence building up or taking down a peg or two.

Lucas is a good examples - Lucas was shredded regularly on here and for years, Rafa was abused for not only buying him but playing him, over and over - now of course he was a young lad and had the potential to get better and had two world class players ahead of him but that never stopped people making judgements of him based on and only on when he did play - they simply could not see what rafa saw in the lad - its the advantage the manager has over the rest of us not only seeing performances in training but knowing how the lad ticks, what motivates him, what should benefit him

Now clearly managers will make mistakes they'll get things wrong, make bad decisions, do stuff we just dont agree with but I dont see why with our limited knowledge we should believe we've got a better chance of getting it right than them - now sometimes we will but the odds  are stacked against us - so to my mind if there's reason to doubt then I'll normally come down on the side of giving the manager the benefit of that doubt.

Dont get me wrong I'm not convinced by Adam - I remember cursing that very pass in the final - the game was over if he'd just kept the ball made Cardiff retreat, reorganise  but that doesn't mean he can't improve - 26 or not I think he's still struggling coming to terms with LFC - its the only real excuse he has for his set pieces being so poor -

[lorenzo23]

Does anyone else feel that when any posters only come back is you are wearing rose tinted glasses that their credibility is diminished, why the hell the guy with the most assists gets more flak than any other player screams of scapegoating and him becoming the natural successor to Dirk as the target for total pisstakers.

Some fans always need someone to slate used to happen in the pubs so why not in here, only difference is in here you can't walk over tell the guy to get a grip and then buy him a pint and chat about it. Threads like this lead to them and us trench warfare and nobody listens to each other and keeps recycling the same boring and tired comments on both sides.

I would like Adam to do well with us he is something different but anyone who thinks he isn't essentially a squad player is living in dreamland, if he doesnt do his job he will be gone with not much outlay if he does he will be a bargain buy . Wait and see would be my view on him, might see the best of him next season in a more settled squad.

Same could be said if you call some one whopper better yet, don't reply to people abusing Adam then? easiest option just reply back with your opinion to other posters?  As you said he got most assist so he must be doing something rite? well he also has one most appearance would lead people to say he more than squad player and if you want to  bring up about injuries which then we void my stat, same could be said about his  actual performance rather than bring up stats works both ways mate.

[lorenzo23]

But isn't that about 'management' some players to get the best from them you kick up the arse others you drop. others you praise. I'm not sure we are best placed to second guess why certain players are selected and others not. All we see is 90 minutes - so yeah we can say based on this game or that game ceratin players should be picked but - we haven't see how they train , how they respond to an arm round teh shoulder or a growl, whether the manager feels they need their confidence building up or taking down a peg or two.

Lucas is a good examples - Lucas was shredded regularly on here and for years, Rafa was abused for not only buying him but playing him, over and over - now of course he was a young lad and had the potential to get better and had two world class players ahead of him but that never stopped people making judgements of him based on and only on when he did play - they simply could not see what rafa saw in the lad - its the advantage the manager has over the rest of us not only seeing performances in training but knowing how the lad ticks, what motivates him, what should benefit him

Now clearly managers will make mistakes they'll get things wrong, make bad decisions, do stuff we just dont agree with but I dont see why with our limited knowledge we should believe we've got a better chance of getting it right than them - now sometimes we will but the odds  are stacked against us - so to my mind if there's reason to doubt then I'll normally come down on the side of giving the manager the benefit of that doubt.

Dont get me wrong I'm not convinced by Adam - I remember cursing that very pass in the final - the game was over if he'd just kept the ball made Cardiff retreat, reorganise  but that doesn't mean he can't improve - 26 or not I think he's still struggling coming to terms with LFC - its the only real excuse he has for his set pieces being so poor -

That very good point, will admit i didn't think it from that point of view. So agree to disagree as i think both mine and your points have some value to it, i personally just thought if you treat everyone same it will always put in good stead in future. (Like the way Kenny had ago at team after Bolton game didn't mention any names just said it as team) Guess over time we see if this backing Kenny has giving the lad comes good.

[john_mac]

Another couple of pages of spherical shite, off the match to support the fellas wearing red, no doubt another dozen pages of spherical shite by the time I'm home, hopefully about this time tomorrow morning!

[Walshy7]

useless

[rossipersempre]

spherical shite......spherical shite

Could almost be an indictment of Adam's "playmaking ability" aka spray 40 yard diagonal pass, look sheepish when overhit again, jog for 2 secs, blow out cheeks, shout and point, wait, receive ball, stop dead, take 7 touches, look up, spray 40 yard diagonal pass, look sheepish...etc.

[Melbred]

Could almost be an indictment of Adam's "playmaking ability" aka spray 40 yard diagonal pass, look sheepish when overhit again, jog for 2 secs, blow out cheeks, shout and point, wait, receive ball, stop dead, take 7 touches, look up, spray 40 yard diagonal pass, look sheepish...etc.

Laughed at first, but it became unfunny when I realised how true all of this is.

[john_mac]

Could almost be an indictment of Adam's "playmaking ability" aka spray 40 yard diagonal pass, look sheepish when overhit again, jog for 2 secs, blow out cheeks, shout and point, wait, receive ball, stop dead, take 7 touches, look up, spray 40 yard diagonal pass, look sheepish...etc.

could be, but i prefer to think of the sheep on here going round in their ever decreasing circles, whilst their ever increasing opinions of themselves bloat like an Eddie Murphy character.
But suppose you're right, you usually are, in your own inflated opinion of yourself, at least.

[nicholasanthony]

Some people love to hate. Can't work out how they take enjoyment from watching their own team play.

[-RedTilDead-]

Some people love to hate. Can't work out how they take enjoyment from watching their own team play.

Some take enjoyment from posting negative rantings  multiple times a day, every day, until the player has gone (and sometimes even after), when they probably said everything in their first 2 or 3 posts. Bizarre way to spend time and energy. I wonder how many are spending equal amounts of time praising the players they do like.

[vivabobbygraham]

You checked the references? I'm flattered.

You are my hero.

[vivabobbygraham]

could be, but i prefer to think of the sheep on here going round in their ever decreasing circles, whilst their ever increasing opinions of themselves bloat like an Eddie Murphy character.
But suppose you're right, you usually are, in your own inflated opinion of yourself, at least.

 

[Mutton Geoff]

Round and round
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On a ever spinning wheel
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind!

Anthem for this and the shite Andy thread!

[Percito]

See, I'm not sure we can go there. Conceivably we might be able to fool a McLeish or a Moyes into paying £8-10m for Adam. And whilst we eventually got £30m for Xabi (and when I say 'we', I mean the RBS), it's no secret that Rafa was hawking him round the Summer of Barry before for £16m.

I actually think that Moyes is far too astute a picker of players to be fooled by the likes of Adam. He's had to become so, given the fact that Everton post a negative net spend every season. Like how creativity often flourished under the Soviet Union because of rather than in spite of everything, etc.

[AKABillyGee]

Could almost be an indictment of Adam's "playmaking ability" aka spray 40 yard diagonal pass, look sheepish when overhit again, jog for 2 secs, blow out cheeks, shout and point, wait, receive ball, stop dead, take 7 touches, look up, spray 40 yard diagonal pass, look sheepish...etc.

Fast becoming the Shaun Dundee of the midfield. Woeful.

[Wish Matrix]

Poor man's Carrick.

[Pistolero]

weird...for a couple of pages back there this discussion actually became interesting.....then the usual mock-the-week wannabees waded back in and farted all over it

hope he plays and plays well today...his confidence has been low recently and its effected his game - needs a morale boosting performance to get him back on track......couple more assists will do nicely

[keeby]

Round and round
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On a ever spinning wheel
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind!

Anthem for this and the shite Andy thread!

rekkon you could make a good tune out of that mate........
hope charlie has a blinder today - up the redmen.

[Yorkykopite]

Round and round
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On a ever spinning wheel
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind!

Anthem for this and the shite Andy thread!

From its most prolific and tenacious poster!

[Camarero25]

Do you know what I do if I don't like a thread? I don't read it. I certainly don't post in it.

[Yorkykopite]

Do you know what I do if I don't like a thread? I don't read it. I certainly don't post in it.

Fella can't help it. Frustrated policeman.

[Gnurglan]

Can't make my mind up about Adam. Saw that he has 2+11, which is very good for a CM. We can't complain about that. Review his defensive game and it's not so good. For a CM that's quite important. Adam is not the typical attacking midfielder, I think he seems most comfortable when he has plenty of time and the game in front of him. That's when he can pick a forward pass. Have him run with the ball and he tends to lose it. So the deeper role is best for him. But then we need to pair him with a more defensive player. Not quite sure what to make of it.

[vivabobbygraham]

Fella can't help it. Frustrated policeman.

Hope he starts along with Stevie and Spearing. Whatever some think of him he can do a decent job on the left of a three, gives us a nice balance. Considering we have been without Lucas and Stevie for most of the season the fellah has done a decent enough job. It's not as if we aren't creating chances. I beleive he still has time to improve. We are prepared to give it to Henderson, why not Charlie? He may be a few years older but he is still as green round the ears as Hendo in Premier League experience and will get better. He seems an earnest, hard working fellah who takes direction. He is in capable hands and the time to judge is the end of next season. What will he be then 26/27? Still with sell on value if it doesn't work out. One of our shrewder buys for me

[Percito]

Hope he starts along with Stevie and Spearing. Whatever some think of him he can do a decent job on the left of a three, gives us a nice balance. Considering we have been without Lucas and Stevie for most of the season the fellah has done a decent enough job. It's not as if we aren't creating chances. I beleive he still has time to improve. We are prepared to give it to Henderson, why not Charlie? He may be a few years older but he is still as green round the ears as Hendo in Premier League experience and will get better. He seems an earnest, hard working fellah who takes direction. He is in capable hands and the time to judge is the end of next season. What will he be then 26/27? Still with sell on value if it doesn't work out. One of our shrewder buys for me

How do you figure that? Most people seem to think he's done the opposite...

[Yorkykopite]

How do you figure that? Most people seem to think he's done the opposite...

Jesus man, it's the bloke's opinion. Do you settle every argument with a clapometer?

[Eeyore]

weird...for a couple of pages back there this discussion actually became interesting.....then the usual mock-the-week wannabees waded back in and farted all over it

hope he plays and plays well today...his confidence has been low recently and its effected his game - needs a morale boosting performance to get him back on track......couple more assists will do nicely

Or maybe what's needed is for Charlie to listen to what  Holloway said last May.


Holloway warns Adam: Stop trying Hollywood balls or I'll drop you

Published 14:20 06/05/11 By MirrorFootball

   

Blackpool boss Ian Holloway has urged out-of-sorts club captain Charlie Adam to keep things simple over the remaining weeks of the season.

Adam has been one of the Seasiders' star performers in their maiden Barclays Premier League campaign and was among the shortlisted nominees for the Professional Footballers' Association Player of the Year award won by Tottenham's Gareth Bale last month.

However, the Scotland midfielder admitted recently that his form has taken a dip of late, and Holloway is advising Adam to focus less on elaborate cross-field balls and efforts on goal and more on getting the basics right as Blackpool go into the final three games of their relegation battle.

"He's that important to us that if he plays well, we play well," Holloway said.

"But luckily some of the lads, particularly in the last two games, have raised their level and made up for him not being quite up to his normal level.

"It will always be difficult for Charlie to be able to play to his level and stand out.

"What he has got to do is make sure he plays simply, quickly, nicely and neatly, and forgets all these shots from the halfway line because that is not really going to help anybody when you are not on form. That's not the way to get back in the game.

"We have spoken about it and I've put on some training this week for him and the rest of them to get it into their minds what is important.

"For 75% of the time you should be playing it nice and simple to your team-mates and 25% of the time you should be looking for a long diagonal if one is on.

"At the moment I would suggest that he is getting that balance slightly wrong."

Although acknowledging it would be unrealistic to expect the 25-year-old to maintain his performance level throughout the entire season, Holloway insists Adam is not undroppable.

"He is a great player, a great lad and he's allowed to be not totally on top form sometimes," Holloway said.

"But if he goes too bad I might leave him out.

"I've got some other people here who are probably thinking 'are you ever going to do that?' So I'll have to think about that."

Blackpool are currently above the relegation zone on goal difference alone having won only one and lost 10 of their last 15 matches.

Holloway has been encouraged by home draws against Newcastle and Stoke over the past fortnight and feels his team "probably need another five" points from their run-in to avoid the drop.

It appears a tough ask, with the Tangerines facing trips to Spurs tomorrow and Manchester United on the last day of the season either side of a clash with Bolton at Bloomfield Road.

They have taken more points on the road this term than at their own ground, though, something the manager views as a good omen.

"With the last two performances you could say you should get home wins at this level and that home form keeps you up," Holloway said.

"But you can't say that with Blackpool - our away form, if anything, will keep us up and we have got two tough away games.

"We are ready for this - we couldn't be more ready. It is exciting and there are big games everywhere.

"There will be some twists and turns in it and hopefully it will still be in our favour




Do the highlighted bits sound familiar

[vivabobbygraham]

How do you figure that? Most people seem to think he's done the opposite...

Most people on this thread is hardly most people per se. For the reasons I've mentioned Percito. I believe he should be afforded more time to settle because of his lack of Premier League experience. He has had really good moments, United, home FA Cup being one when he made an impact on the game. He's out of his comfort zone as is Hendo and Downing but I have faith they can all improve. If I have a minor crticism of the King and it's more an observation, really, it was we integrated the new players too quickly and some may have benefitted being introduced over time. Injuries may have played a part but playing Charlie, Hendo and Downing from the get go as staragers to each others way of playing may have caused a fog of confusion that is there to see on occasion

[vivabobbygraham]

Jesus man, it's the bloke's opinion. Do you settle every argument with a clapometer?

[Yorkykopite]

Do the highlighted bits sound familiar

They do. A good find as well Al.

The problem is you take the 'Hollywood balls' away from Charlie and you're left with a very ordinary midfielder. I mean I've no idea if Adam took Holloway's advice and tried to play it short and quick. Maybe he didn't. But if he did it clearly didn't work. Blackpool continued their remorseless slide to the 'Championship' (sic).

[Eeyore]

Can't make my mind up about Adam. Saw that he has 2+11, which is very good for a CM. We can't complain about that. Review his defensive game and it's not so good. For a CM that's quite important. Adam is not the typical attacking midfielder, I think he seems most comfortable when he has plenty of time and the game in front of him. That's when he can pick a forward pass. Have him run with the ball and he tends to lose it. So the deeper role is best for him. But then we need to pair him with a more defensive player. Not quite sure what to make of it.

To paraphrase Holloway if you are keeping it simple 75% of the time and trying the Hollywood stuff 25% of the time then 2 goals and 11 assists is a fine return because if you get two or three people doing that from midfield then you are knocking on the door. The problems occur when you are trying the Hollywood stuff 75% of the time and you are starving your other creative players of possession.

The perfect example was against Cardiff at Wembley Downing was on top form and had both full backs in his pocket when it's like that you don't try and compete by trying ever more eye catching passes you just give the lad the ball and let him tear them apart. You don't try and hit a 60 yard pass to Bellamy that soars over his head you just play the simple pass to Downing and get in the box.

[royhendo]

But if he did it clearly didn't work. Blackpool continued their remorseless slide to the 'Championship' (sic).

I'm feeling pretty critical of Charlie at the minute after the last two games in particular, but I'm uncomfortable with any notion he's in any way responsible for Blackpool being relegated. They were relegated in spite of Charlie Adam's contribution, not because of it.

I realise that's not your point, but I'm wary of gentle associations of that ilk.

[Eeyore]

They do. A good find as well Al.

The problem is you take the 'Hollywood balls' away from Charlie and you're left with a very ordinary midfielder. I mean I've no idea if Adam took Holloway's advice and tried to play it short and quick. Maybe he didn't. But if he did it clearly didn't work. Blackpool continued their remorseless slide to the 'Championship' (sic).

That is the thing though Yorky if you are playing for Blackpool and man for man you are probably of a lower standard than the opposition then a show pony talisman can sometimes be the way to go. At Liverpool he is usually playing in a side that man for man is better than the opposition, so instead of trying show how good he is Adam should be giving the ball to the likes of Suarez, Gerrard, Downing and Bellamy et al as efficiently and as quickly as he can.

That for me is the massive difference between Alonso and Adam with Alonso he drove the ball low and hard with no spin out wide like an exocet missile as a means to an end, it was to get his team mate that vital second of extra time and space by surprising the opposition. I get the impression that Charlie looks at the long balls as a desperate attempt to justify his inclusion in the side. Alonso specialised in the right pass the most efficient pass if it was a simple ten yard pass that gave a team mate space he would do it in an instant.

Charlie would rather stop turn a hundred and 180 degrees giftwrap the pass up in gawdy paper, stick a bow and a set of neon lights on it and then shout look how clever I am. It is what happens after the pass that matters not how good it looks.

[MassDriver]

Unbelievable the amount of grief Adam receives here on RAWK , especially considering the money we spent on him and the ROI we've had till now.  He has done way better than the likes of Downing and Henderson , by a long fucking distance.

I guess he is just not very likable 

[vivabobbygraham]

Something else that has disappeared without trace has been his inciseveness at dead ball situations; corners, free kicks, penalties. That was another reason for our interest. The fact that has gone West confirms to me Charlie is struggling to come to terms with the enormity of his new found situation and why I believe he can and will improve over time as he feels part of something. He seems to have integrated well enough but is easily pushed aside by others in dead ball situations. Pre season he seemed pretty robust; I vaguely remember a penalty incident where he took control but lately he's always hovering around free kicks but not taking them nearly as much as he should for me.

[Eeyore]

I'm feeling pretty critical of Charlie at the minute after the last two games in particular, but I'm uncomfortable with any notion he's in any way responsible for Blackpool being relegated. They were relegated in spite of Charlie Adam's contribution, not because of it.

I realise that's not your point, but I'm wary of gentle associations of that ilk.

I posted this the other day and it may be a bit harsh on reflection but I think the home form away form is pretty relevant.

Maybe it is because he lacks bottle at Blackpool last season when they were playing away in a new League with zero pressure and zero expectation Adam was a revelation. Away from home when he was afforded space and Blackpool took the game to teams he was inspired his general play was good and his set pieces were brilliant.

That is only half the story though Blackpool had the tenth best away form in the League winning as many away games as the Champions United. At home was a different matter they had everything going for them a small tight ground, vocal supporters and a poor pitch. The problem though was at home they simply couldn't cope with the expectations their home form was abysmal they were 19th in the home form table and it relegated them.

They ended up having a glut of home fixtures at the end of the season because of the postponement of games because of their lack of under soil heating and a cold winter. When push came to shove and they needed their talisman to turn up at home at the end of the season he disappeared. His passing became erratic, his set piece delivery dipped and his form was so poor that Holloway publicly rebuked him and talked about dropping him.

It was an age old story away from home under no pressure he was great at home when there was less space and more pressure the Rangers Adam reappeared. Fast forward to Liverpool and we get exactly the same thing an excellent away form, the best for a number of years but an awful home form an exact replica of Blackpool last season.

Blackpool were tenth in the away table and 19th in the home table, Liverpool are fifth in the away table and tenth in the home table.

Away to Wolves with acres of space and little expectation Adam provides two assists from open play at home with less space and more expectation instead of assists we have had set pieces that hit the first divot, misplaced passes, hollywood balls into row Z and desperate drunken forward shuffles hoping for a free kick. I like Charlie he seems a really decent pro, he talks sense in interviews and appears to be popular in the dressing room he just lacks brains and balls of steel and that's why he will never ever be the new Alonso.

An interesting point is what Holloway said when he reflected on last season's relegation.


My lowest point of 2011 was, of course, Blackpool’s relegation from the Premier League.

We were told we would be relegated before the Christmas decorations had been taken down with the lowest points tally ever seen.

But last January we had 28 points and I was looking forward to ramming the insults that had been thrown at my club back down the throats of the ignoramuses who felt they could judge us. Then things fell apart. We added just 11 points to our tally and we were going down with a healthy bank balance, plenty of plaudits and a sea of tears. There were so many things that could have tipped the scales our way.

With 20 minutes of the season left we were beating champions Manchester United 2-1 at Old Trafford and were staying up. Then United scored three times.

In a game at Tottenham a week earlier we were leading 1-0 until Jermain Defoe scored a late equaliser. We had a goal wrongly disallowed for offside against Manchester City when they beat us 3-2. We were denied a stonewall penalty when we led United 2-0 — and ended up losing 3-2.

But looking back, I ­believe the seeds of relegation were sewn a year ago when Liverpool declared their interest in signing Charlie Adam. He was our best player. I felt we had to keep him at any cost if we were to stay up.

As it turned out, the constant speculation had such a negative effect on the club that I now wish we had sold Charlie last January and taken our chances.


The biggest thing for me was that Blackpool put all their eggs in one basket and when Charlie's form dipped for whatever he couldn't or wouldn't change his game. Maybe we need more Charlie the water carrier and less Champagne Charlie. He is surrounded by some top quality attacking players now and for me needs to remember that and take a leaf out of Lucas or Alonso's book and keep the ball ticking over.

[lorenzo23]

I'm feeling pretty critical of Charlie at the minute after the last two games in particular, but I'm uncomfortable with any notion he's in any way responsible for Blackpool being relegated. They were relegated in spite of Charlie Adam's contribution, not because of it.

I realise that's not your point, but I'm wary of gentle associations of that ilk.

Even though York didn't quite mean what your saying i can see where some would read his post and then try read too much into, considering he one there best player (Gerrard like) only complete fool would link Adam to there relegation.

[Lenin.]

Round and round
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On a ever spinning wheel
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind!

Anthem for this and the shite Andy thread!

MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left the cake out in the rain

I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to bake it
And I'll never have that recipe again, oh no

[lorenzo23]

Even though that is well written post AI, think Adam down fall in form was more to do with him believing his own hype after being talked up by Spurs, Man u managers and chased by Spurs Liverpool and Villa.

[Yorkykopite]

I'm feeling pretty critical of Charlie at the minute after the last two games in particular, but I'm uncomfortable with any notion he's in any way responsible for Blackpool being relegated. They were relegated in spite of Charlie Adam's contribution, not because of it.

It's always difficult assigning individual "responsibility" in team games, whether that's responsibility for failure or success. I'd say no one escapes at least some responsibility for what happens. Traore for the victory in Istanbul, Charlie Adam for Blackpool's relegation. What is unarguable Roy is that Charlie proved unable to halt a pretty amazing slide and that we remained unshakeably keen to buy him.