Topic: A future without Steven Gerrard

[And CouldHe Play!]

What other midfielder do we have that can change a game? a la Norwich, Newcastle, and obviously 3 vs the blue shite

[Rohit]

What other midfielder do we have that can change a game? a la Norwich, Newcastle, and obviously 3 vs the blue shite

He didn't even really play in midfield for those games. Thats the point he's been wasted there since benitez was sacked. He's played a second striker in those games or the most advanced of a midfield 3.

[Mutton Geoff]

Al
Whilst i think Andy was a bit premature with he should move on now, surely the title would give you a clue that we are discussing when he isn't in the team anymore, so in that Andy is not out of order with his comments, for me though Stevie needs to be gently eased away from the idea that he has to carry the team, and be everywhere at once.

 For me maybe the team looked like it played better without him at times is down to their mentality, I think they are intimidated a little when he is on the pitch and do not play with the same freedom they show when isn't playing.

For example lets say the best pass Henderson or Adam et al can make in any game is not always to Stevie when he demands it, if he isn't there they possibly express themselves better and have to take on a lot more responsibility within the midfield rather than the easy option of giving it to Stevie.

Two people will sort the problem out Rogers and Gerrard but time is the key factor and suggesting we need to think about this now should not diminish any respect for what Stevie has done.
I would like to see God,  Rush, Digger and Beardsley still on the pitch alongside Callaghan and Tommy Smith, not going to happen though is it.

[Clonsilla Red]

What other midfielder do we have that can change a game? a la Norwich, Newcastle, and obviously 3 vs the blue shite

we don't but don't tell Andy that!

[fowler9_god]

It wasnt aimed at just that one post by Andy. Look through any Gerrard thread and he's on most pages pointing out negatives about him. The club matters more for me, obviously. For us to play to our best next year we will need Steven Gerrard. He is still our best midfield player, Lucas arguably joining him now. If he has an injury free season he will be fantastic for us. Fair enough if you or Andy thinks he shouldnt be a guaranteed starter. Thats something which I again disagree with but that would be a fair opinion to have with decent evidence to show for it. Time for him to move on? Thats just so fucking retarded it beggars belief.

I'll tell you what really wrecked our last season's league campaign. Steven Gerrard. Last season Kenny's first 3 choices were Gerrard, Lucas and Adam. Look at how many times they played together. Gerrard got fit and injured in the space of a week. Then we lost Lucas and Kenny had to play players who wouldn't play as many games. For a squad which has to follow an FSG wage structure it's mighty hard to keep a first XI player who quite frankly hasn't been fit for 2-3 seasons. If we had the wage budget and the money, it wouldn't have mattered. Raul Meirelies would have came in and we wouldn't have felt the loss as much.

If we are planning on having a thin squad, its imperative that we have players with a good injury record.

The hope that he'd be fit for the season and the hope that when he is fit he is our best player. I don't disagree. But that's too big of a gamble for us.  He can't be fit for the whole season and like last season I think if we sell too many of our CMs and rely on Spearing, Shelvey and Henderson to pick us up, we will again be in the same position.

For me there are two options. We look at Gerrard as a luxury and not a necessity. But can FSG afford a player on more than 100k per week to play a role like that? We have a first XI modelled without Gerrard, if he is fit, he'd get games, off the bench or start and we nurture him so that he prolongs his career.

Someone needs to have a talk with him IMO. And as a club we should be birave enough to let legends go. We have become so sentimental that it is hurting us. Players come and go, Gerrard is a legend and always will be. But there's father time and he has his way with everyone.

[steveeastend]

What other midfielder do we have that can change a game? a la Norwich, Newcastle, and obviously 3 vs the blue shite

That´s why he should be playing further up the pitch. WE sold too many of those that could do that and for the last couple of years he was our only midfielder capable of turning a game. Why we kept on playing him in the center is beyond me, it doesn´t make any any sense other to him as he pointed out that this would be his favourite position.

He could be a major asset to our first eleven if played upfront, and it´s up to him to find some sense here together with Rodgers. If not, we will stuck into the same problems in midfield whenever he is played in the center and will bring Rodgers in a pretty unwinnable position. Nobody wants this situation to come and it´s pretty unavoidable if he insits playing there considering his age.

[Spanish Al]

I'll tell you what really wrecked our last season's league campaign. Steven Gerrard. Last season Kenny's first 3 choices were Gerrard, Lucas and Adam. Look at how many times they played together. Gerrard got fit and injured in the space of a week. Then we lost Lucas and Kenny had to play players who wouldn't play as many games. For a squad which has to follow an FSG wage structure it's mighty hard to keep a first XI player who quite frankly hasn't been fit for 2-3 seasons. If we had the wage budget and the money, it wouldn't have mattered. Raul Meirelies would have came in and we wouldn't have felt the loss as much.

If we are planning on having a thin squad, its imperative that we have players with a good injury record.

The hope that he'd be fit for the season and the hope that when he is fit he is our best player. I don't disagree. But that's too big of a gamble for us.  He can't be fit for the whole season and like last season I think if we sell too many of our CMs and rely on Spearing, Shelvey and Henderson to pick us up, we will again be in the same position.

For me there are two options. We look at Gerrard as a luxury and not a necessity. But can FSG afford a player on more than 100k per week to play a role like that? We have a first XI modelled without Gerrard, if he is fit, he'd get games, off the bench or start and we nurture him so that he prolongs his career.

Someone needs to have a talk with him IMO. And as a club we should be birave enough to let legends go. We have become so sentimental that it is hurting us. Players come and go, Gerrard is a legend and always will be. But there's father time and he has his way with everyone.

Why let him go if we are already short in midfield as you say due to injuries and what not? Lucas had a bad injury last year, an injury which has and can end careers, not letting players return to their best. Shall we sell Lucas as well? Gerrard gets injured from playing too much. Im not saying play him every game, play him sparingly and use him wisely and he can keep playing on like Giggs and Scholes and the never ending ageing Milan players. Kenny and Hodgson insisting on playing him in midfield box to box fucked us up, not only on the pitch but with Stevens injuries. He's not that player anymore, sit him deep, adapt his game or put him just off the striker again.

Id rather have a fit Steven Gerrard on 150k a week for 19 league games a year than Downing or Cole for 38 games who are on on big, big wages as well.

Im gonna come back into this thread in a few months, when the Rodgers style is in full swing and so is Stevie.

[fowler9_god]

Why let him go if we are already short in midfield as you say due to injuries and what not? Lucas had a bad injury last year, an injury which has and can end careers, not letting players return to their best. Shall we sell Lucas as well? Gerrard gets injured from playing too much. Im not saying play him every game, play him sparingly and use him wisely and he can keep playing on like Giggs and Scholes and the never ending ageing Milan players. Kenny and Hodgson insisting on playing him in midfield box to box fucked us up, not only on the pitch but with Stevens injuries. He's not that player anymore, sit him deep, adapt his game or put him just off the striker again.

Id rather have a fit Steven Gerrard on 150k a week for 19 league games a year than Downing or Cole for 38 games who are on on big, big wages as well.

Im gonna come back into this thread in a few months, when the Rodgers style is in full swing and so is Stevie.

Because Lucas's injury was a freaky one. That can happen to anyone.

Gerrard's been troubled with different one's for 2-3 season's. When Lucas starts having them we have to think of selling him too.

Can FSG keep Gerrard in a role paying him 100k per week and do what Giggs and Scholes do?

Wouldn't it be better if his wages are freed up and we get a player who most likely would play a lot of games in the season and still be fit?

[Flaccid Bobby Fowler]

Andy, how exactly did you celebrate his hatrick against everton last season? I have this image of sheer elation for about 2 seconds and then utter rage

[Istanbul, 2005]

Andy, how exactly did you celebrate his hatrick against everton last season? I have this image of sheer elation for about 2 seconds and then utter rage

[Istanbul, 2005]

The thing is that I acctually like most of Andys post in every other thread, but in here it´s just sad to see, so obsessed and filled with hatred.

[smicer07]

Obviously he still has something to offer but he was really poor last season (Everton at home aside) and I still feel he tries to do the job of 4 players when he should concentrate on his own role. We often play better without him aswell.

[Fromola]

Andy, how exactly did you celebrate his hatrick against everton last season? I have this image of sheer elation for about 2 seconds and then utter rage

Personally I was made up and thought 'Gerrard's back to his best again'. Then he did nothing for the rest of the season, so it was just one of his 2 or 3 annual good games in recent years.

[NOTBORNIN1982]

Personally I was made up and thought 'Gerrard's back to his best again'. Then he did nothing for the rest of the season, so it was just one of his 2 or 3 annual good games in recent years.

How can you be so dismisive about a guy who has given us so much joy over the years? Do you honestly think he has nothing left to offer?

[Fromola]

How can you be so dismisive about a guy who has given us so much joy over the years? Do you honestly think he has nothing left to offer?

I think he'd have more to offer going forward. I don't like seeing him sat deep.

All I know is he's offered next to nothing for 3 years now bar the odd game.

[Eeyore]

He came on the other night and it was the same old story he went and dropped deep and took the ball off the centre backs and then looked to play people in with fifty yard balls that nearly came off. The crowd went ooaah and aagh but the sad reality was that we lost possession time and time again, couldn't build up any possession and momentum and ended up playing like England did in the Euros.

There was no pass and move, no attempt to play as a team and dominate possession it was just the usual opportunity for Gerrard to try and showcase his talent at the expense of the team. The sooner we get him out of midfield and back where he belongs hurting teams in the final third the better.

[NOTBORNIN1982]

All I know is he's offered next to nothing for 3 years now bar the odd game.

Barring a few, the whole team has underperformed for one reason or another over the last few seasons.

Given the chance to play in set tactcical plan, I think Gerrard could again prove to be massively influential... again.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Andy, how exactly did you celebrate his hatrick against everton last season? I have this image of sheer elation for about 2 seconds and then utter rage

Sheer elation followed by sheer elation.

If Gerrard is playing well, banging goals in and playing for the team then I'm as delighted as anyone. My problem is that the odd cameo here and there (Months apart typically) just isn't good enough.

And I've said time and again IF he can get fit and stay fit and be in form then I'm delighted because my team is benefitting.

[liverpooll]

He came on the other night and it was the same old story he went and dropped deep and took the ball off the centre backs and then looked to play people in with fifty yard balls that nearly came off.

Maybe that says something about our team and his teammates. He played the similar role in England and his passes were connecting well as England had better team than Liverpool.

Being obsessed with the pass and move game when there really are few Liverpool players in the club atm who can play that side of the game.

[scatman]

Maybe that says something about our team and his teammates. He played the similar role in England and his passes were connecting well as England had better team than Liverpool.

Being obsessed with the pass and move game when there really are few Liverpool players in the club atm who can play that side of the game.

we are not england.

[liverpooll]

we are not england.

And, maybe it shows it is a team game where a pass being successful also depends on the receiving party. A simple pass and move game will never work at Liverpool at least with the current squad. That's the reason, why Gerrard has to do so many things at his own.

[Fromola]

Maybe that says something about our team and his teammates. He played the similar role in England and his passes were connecting well as England had better team than Liverpool.

Being obsessed with the pass and move game when there really are few Liverpool players in the club atm who can play that side of the game.

Is that the same England that couldn't keep the ball for 10 seconds during the Euros? GB at the Olympics keep it better with the lieks of Cleverley, Allen and Ramsey in midfield who are all pass-and-move players not always looking for the Hollywood ball, or try and do everything themselves.

Rodgers wanting to sign Allen says a lot about what he thinks of the passing ability of our midfield in general. How he can get Gerrard to adapt his game will be a big issue next season.

Shelvey, Adam and Gerrard all force the play far too much, and it stops us keeping the ball.

[Rohit]

He came on the other night and it was the same old story he went and dropped deep and took the ball off the centre backs and then looked to play people in with fifty yard balls that nearly came off. The crowd went ooaah and aagh but the sad reality was that we lost possession time and time again, couldn't build up any possession and momentum and ended up playing like England did in the Euros.

There was no pass and move, no attempt to play as a team and dominate possession it was just the usual opportunity for Gerrard to try and showcase his talent at the expense of the team. The sooner we get him out of midfield and back where he belongs hurting teams in the final third the better.

He's as direct as they come mate and no matter where he plays he might aswell be playing attacking midfield as he spends more times on the wings than in midfield anyway. Sooner we sign a midfielder to play with lucas the better. He made one great off the ball run when lucas played him through albeit offside but I'd rather see that than gerrard playing in lucas's area of the pitch he's no good to us there.

[Chalky Boots]

Just noticed this and In reply to the OP I'd say this, we shouldn't try to replace him because frankly we'll waste millions trying to find a player that currently is neither born or found yet. Steven Gerrard is one of the greatest midfielders in post war football, as far as midfielders of his type go, he sits in a room with Platini on their own as far as I'm concerned.

For me our next step is adaptation, look to a slightly different player that doesn't compromise the strenghth of the team but differs in their talents to their predecessor. Just look how Barca transitioned from a Luis Enrique (a player of similar type to Stevie,certainly in the way they attacked) influenced midfield to one that eventually contained Xavi and Deco, and now Xavi & Iniesta.

[Fromola]

He's as direct as they come mate and no matter where he plays he might aswell be playing attacking midfield as he spends more times on the wings than in midfield anyway. Sooner we sign a midfielder to play with lucas the better. He made one great off the ball run when lucas played him through albeit offside but I'd rather see that than gerrard playing in lucas's area of the pitch he's no good to us there.

Hopefully if we have Allen and Lucas as the deeper two then Gerrard will be freed up more, but he still always comes deep looking for the ball, even if it means taking it off a defender's toe.

[LFC when it suits]

But can FSG afford a player on more than 100k per week to play a role like that? We have a first XI modelled without Gerrard, if he is fit, he'd get games, off the bench or start and we nurture him so that he prolongs his career.

Someone needs to have a talk with him IMO. And as a club we should be birave enough to let legends go. We have become so sentimental that it is hurting us. Players come and go, Gerrard is a legend and always will be. But there's father time and he has his way with everyone.

This. Unfortunately, , considering his injury record and his decline as a player, he is not worth the wages he gets and hasn't been for the last 3 seasons. We need to start easing him out in the next two seasons and start preparing Shelvey to take over his role in the team.
 

Or even ship him out and get him of the wage bill and bring someone else in witht he money.

[LFC when it suits]

Another thing that really annoys me with Gerrard is that when Gerrard is out injured and the team goes on a good run playing good football, as soon as Gerrard is fit, he walks back straight into the team.

He just isn't that good anymore to be disrupting a working formula or to have everything built around him. He always stole the headlines, but it was Alonso that always pulled the strings and made him look better than he really was.

[Chalky Boots]

Erm okay, I think Gerrard made himself look plenty  good without the need for Alonso's help.

[LFC when it suits]

Erm okay, I think Gerrard made himself look plenty  good without the need for Alonso's help.

Not since 2004. Alonso did a lot of the important work such as controlling the midfield and dictating the pace of the game, while Gerrard stole all the headlines.

[Fromola]

Someone needs to have a talk with him IMO. And as a club we should be birave enough to let legends go. We have become so sentimental that it is hurting us. Players come and go, Gerrard is a legend and always will be. But there's father time and he has his way with everyone.

It feels more like Carragher and Gerrard FC these days than it does LFC. We used to know when to let go.

[Believe]

And, maybe it shows it is a team game where a pass being successful also depends on the receiving party. A simple pass and move game will never work at Liverpool at least with the current squad. That's the reason, why Gerrard has to do so many things at his own.

Quite like 99.5% of you posts, the bolded part is unadulterated tripe. Well, the whole of your post is but the bit I'm mentioning really stood out - could you please explain for the benefit of myself and the other forumites why the collection of players at Swansea can quite happily play pass and move but the more gifted squad at Liverpool cannot?

Also, to suggest that a midfielder dropping deep and 'hollywooding' the ball all over the place and subsequently losing possession is the fault of his team-mates for not receiving said passes, and that it's everyone else's fault that the individual in question does that is staggering.

[Fromola]

Erm okay, I think Gerrard made himself look plenty  good without the need for Alonso's help.

I think Gerrard needed Hamann more than Alonso. Except when he was playing further forward and relied more on Alonso to get the ball to him.

[mb1111]

It feels more like Carragher and Gerrard FC these days than it does LFC. We used to know when to let go.

No it doesnt, it does feel like we have more scumbags than ever "supporting" us though.

[Believe]

Maybe that says something about our team and his teammates. He played the similar role in England and his passes were connecting well as England had better team than Liverpool.

Being obsessed with the pass and move game when there really are few Liverpool players in the club atm who can play that side of the game.

I'm guessing the man behind this mask:

[NOTBORNIN1982]

It feels more like Carragher and Gerrard FC these days than it does LFC. We used to know when to let go.

  Have a word lad

[Grrdaisy]

Just seeing this topic on the main page has depressed me.. I dont want to imagine such a future ! (hopefully it'll be bright and we will have lots to celebrate) but it just wont be the same..

[LFC when it suits]

Maybe that says something about our team and his teammates. He played the similar role in England and his passes were connecting well as England had better team than Liverpool.

Being obsessed with the pass and move game when there really are few Liverpool players in the club atm who can play that side of the game.

Gerrard was woeful for England. He was the best of a bad bunch but he was still poor. He couldn't dictate the tempo  of the game or control the game and England couldn't hold onto the ball for longer than 2 seconds.

[Mutton Geoff]

No it doesnt, it does feel like we have more scumbags than ever "supporting" us though.

Cough cough Mirror needed! Scumbags or realists your call, because in the team they are all equal in my opinion and should be judged that way no matter who they are!

It is dammed obvious that Stevie will never reach the heights he has in the past now we could go down the Paisley system and get rid, i dont think we are there yet, we could realise that the good of the team and club must come before what is good for Stevie, I.e. he plays where he is told to and  maintains some discipline in any given role. Or we could put a bag over our heads and make out he is still as good as 5 years ago, this one is what a lot of you seem to want to do but who matters to you the club or Stevie,

[mb1111]

Cough cough Mirror needed! Scumbags or realists your call, because in the team they are all equal in my opinion and should be judged that way no matter who they are!

Scumbags. The abuse him and Carragher take on here is despicable.

[LFC when it suits]

Scumbags. The abuse him and Carragher take on here is despicable.

What abuse do they take? Unless you call people thinking they should be benched or moved on being abuse. The real abuse taken is by those who are tryin to look into the future by suggesting we move on from Gerrard and Carragher. And it comes from people like you.