Author Topic: A future without Steven Gerrard  (Read 44689 times)

Offline LFC when it suits

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #240 on: July 27, 2012, 05:09:03 pm »
better team without stevie?

people really think that?

Last season, we were a far better team without Stevie than with Stevie. Stevies return to the team coincided with relegation form,  and newcastle/Everton aside, Gerrard was shocking. Many of our best performances were without Gerrard and many of our worst performances were with Gerrard.

Offline Matt8Pie

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #241 on: July 27, 2012, 05:11:03 pm »
better team without stevie?

people really think that?

He'll need a world class replacement for us to be okay without him, in my opinion.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #242 on: July 27, 2012, 05:21:27 pm »
He'll need a world class replacement for us to be okay without him, in my opinion.

Or we change the system rather than go for like for like with him.
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Offline Matt8Pie

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #243 on: July 27, 2012, 05:26:17 pm »
Or we change the system rather than go for like for like with him.

There's that, I just feel that in those games where we are being outclassed then you need a special player to pick the team up and provide the difference and energy to drive everyone on from absolutely nothing. Unfortunately, no team can produce that, it's a player's mentality that he's born with.
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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #244 on: July 27, 2012, 05:27:22 pm »


Shelvey looks like he could develop into a very very good replacement for Stevie when he hangs up his boots.

Just needs to sort his finishing out but he's only 20 so no rush.

Offline Fromola

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #245 on: July 27, 2012, 05:28:57 pm »
better team without stevie?

people really think that?

With Gerrard sat deep in midfield I think we're generally a better team without him because we're not playing to any of his strengths. If he's playing a free role further forward we're undoubtedly much better off with him.

Hopefully the days of him taking the ball off the defenders' toes all the time is over.

Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline groove

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #246 on: July 27, 2012, 06:08:06 pm »
It's a bit more nuanced than "we were better without Gerrard than with" for me. It's more that we were quite good with Lucas but once he was injured Dalglish felt like he had to deploy Gerrard in a more defensive role which not only is he not as good at that role as Lucas but it also takes away shit loads from our play in the final third where he is still exceptional.

He is still the best in the squad and one of the best in the league in those gaps between the striker and the midfield. His movement is intelligent, he finds space in there, he has the technique and the vision to pick passes around the edge of the box, he knows when the space is out wide behind the full back, his mid-range finishing is great, if he spots a gap that he can drive through himself then he can still step on the gas in spurts.

Even including the Everton hat trick game I thought the most comfortable I saw him last season was Norwich away where he was encouraged to be the one getting closest to Suarez. And Luis was fucking loving it.

Offline Motty

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Re: Re: Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #247 on: July 27, 2012, 06:38:07 pm »
I didn't say he shouldn't answer questions - I just said it doesn't mean anything because we've heard it all before.
but that's not his fault so why even bring it up, MAYBE he actually means it at the start of each new managers tenure, + then like in Hodges time he slowly realised he's a tit

Offline andspecks

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #248 on: July 27, 2012, 07:25:39 pm »
Not a Gerrard thread unless it's derailed by posts slagging him off for nothing or beating the usual we're better off without him drum. Great to see it happening before the season's even started.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #249 on: July 27, 2012, 08:37:03 pm »
Not a Gerrard thread unless it's derailed by posts slagging him off for nothing or beating the usual we're better off without him drum. Great to see it happening before the season's even started.

Or by some superfan moaning about the moaners!
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Offline liverpooll

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #250 on: July 27, 2012, 08:40:32 pm »
Last season, we were a far better team without Stevie than with Stevie. Stevies return to the team coincided with relegation form,  and newcastle/Everton aside, Gerrard was shocking. Many of our best performances were without Gerrard and many of our worst performances were with Gerrard.
Really, the last 3 seasons we were mostly without Gerrard and clearly we have suffered. We have enjoyed our best results with him. Even last season, the Carling Cup success was inspired by him.

Offline hedger

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #251 on: July 27, 2012, 09:43:18 pm »
Last season, we were a far better team without Stevie than with Stevie. Stevies return to the team coincided with relegation form,  and newcastle/Everton aside, Gerrard was shocking. Many of our best performances were without Gerrard and many of our worst performances were with Gerrard.

Total nonsense

Offline loozy

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #252 on: July 27, 2012, 10:36:30 pm »
Really, the last 3 seasons we were mostly without Gerrard and clearly we have suffered. We have enjoyed our best results with him. Even last season, the Carling Cup success was inspired by him.

Really, the last 3 seasons you must have spent under a rock and clearly, you have suffered   ;)

No offense, mate, but this is ridiculous...

Offline andspecks

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #253 on: July 27, 2012, 10:37:13 pm »
Or by some superfan moaning about the moaners!
Sticking up for a player who gets criticized for almost every move he makes on here. He's being given stick for believing in his teammates at the moment. I take offense to that.

Offline PIPA23

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #254 on: July 27, 2012, 10:41:38 pm »
i don´t think LFC will plan their future without Steven Gerrard, either a player or any other position at the club...

any player can be replaced, but some of them very hard, Stevie will be that player... i hope we will replace him with another home grown talent..

Offline Get

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #255 on: July 27, 2012, 10:43:43 pm »
i don´t think LFC will plan their future without Steven Gerrard, either a player or any other position at the club...

any player can be replaced, but some of them very hard, Stevie will be that player... i hope we will replace him with another home grown talent..

Suso.. all tho Different player, but has the quality to be massive
Quote from: Fordy on July 20, 2012, 01:24:46 PM
Anything more that 6m for Joe Allen and we have been ripped off.

Loads of Joe allens out there.

I would like to see him stay at Swansea myself and see if he can have another decent season. He is a championship player - players like a championship player.

Offline PIPA23

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #256 on: July 27, 2012, 10:47:24 pm »
Suso.. all tho Different player, but has the quality to be massive

i agree, but Shelvey for me is very simillar to Stevie.. i have my hopes in him as well..

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #257 on: July 27, 2012, 10:48:16 pm »
Our biggest problem has been the over reliance on Gerrard.  I thought Benitez would have addressed that but instead built the team around him.  If he didnt play well or was injured we couldn't cope.  I hope Rodgers see's that and builds a team that plays as a team, which I think he'll do.  Of course Gerrard is still a quality player but we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket so to speak, so if he's out or doesn't play well, the team will still produce the goods.

Offline carling

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #258 on: July 28, 2012, 01:49:38 am »
Or by some superfan moaning about the moaners!

Or by someone moaning about the people who moan about the moaners? :rollseyes

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #259 on: July 28, 2012, 01:51:32 am »
Or by someone moaning about the people who moan about the moaners? :rollseyes

Or by someone moaning about people that moan about other people that moan about moaners.
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Offline Nin

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #260 on: July 28, 2012, 02:32:54 am »
Last season, we were a far better team without Stevie than with Stevie. Stevies return to the team coincided with relegation form,  and newcastle/Everton aside, Gerrard was shocking. Many of our best performances were without Gerrard and many of our worst performances were with Gerrard.

More like the relegation form coincided with a serious injury to a certain Brazilian in the form of his life.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #261 on: July 28, 2012, 07:39:09 am »
Sticking up for a player who gets criticized for almost every move he makes on here. He's being given stick for believing in his teammates at the moment. I take offense to that.
Well bully for you Andy lad, however except for Al and his tinfoil hat moments, who exactly has abused Stevie so much for you to get so outraged about it!
It is a fact that last season we played some of our best football and most fluid passing game when Stevie wasn't on the pitch, it is also true that playing in the way he currently plays Stevie has a relatively short shelf life for us. So what exactly is wrong with those statements?
I am all for supporting players in here from dogs abuse however that means all of them and this manager and for sure the last one, can you say the same?


Or is it just Gerrard you are so precious about?
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #262 on: July 28, 2012, 07:41:52 am »
We missed Lucas more than any other player last season that is a bigger worry for me right now!
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #263 on: July 28, 2012, 09:17:12 am »
We missed Lucas more than any other player last season that is a bigger worry for me right now!

It was three fold really.

We missed Lucas
We ended up playing Gerrard in a more defensive role and missed the "attacking Gerrard" which is still absolutely crucial to us because we have basically no one in the squad with the attributes he has in the final third
We missed Suarez for 8 games and about a month after that.

The spine of our team got ripped apart and unfortunately we couldn't cope for a sustained period of time.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #264 on: July 28, 2012, 09:21:39 am »
Something like this...



More like this

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #265 on: July 28, 2012, 09:24:09 am »
Shankly retired we carried on
Paisley retired w e carried on
Crazy horse left the club we carried on
Keegan moved to hamburg we carried on
Dalglish left twice we have carried on
Rafa and GED left we carried on
Gerrard leaves we will carry on
So why the thread when he goes the manager will have the problem and the club will carry on,

nobody is bigger than the club, not sadly Kenny or even this Gerrard cult in our fanbase,

Good servant but when he retires someone will take his place as always here.

Edit also unless he slightly alters his game he has 2-3 seasons max less with injuries perhaps!

Correct. Good post mate. Gerrard cult is right. You'd think he was bigger than the club the way some people go on. It's clearly getting to the time when he needs to move on for the good of the club. With Rodgers new philosphy around now would be the perfect time for him to bow out (Not on a high but leaving people with good memories) but I fear that he'll still be hanging around in 4 or 5 years.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #266 on: July 28, 2012, 09:24:50 am »
better team without stevie?

people really think that?

Did you not watch our games when he's not been playing?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #267 on: July 28, 2012, 09:25:01 am »
Correct. Good post mate. Gerrard cult is right. You'd think he was bigger than the club the way some people go on. It's clearly getting to the time when he needs to move on for the good of the club. With Rodgers new philosphy around now would be the perfect time for him to bow out (Not on a high but leaving people with good memories) but I fear that he'll still be hanging around in 4 or 5 years.

Has Steven Gerrard done something really bad to you? Did he sexually assault you in a past life?

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Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #268 on: July 28, 2012, 09:28:46 am »
Gerrard still hs a big role to play for Liverpool. He will no doubt be the hero again next season. In a structured style, he can really flourish. No more rtying to do the work of eveyone else. Gerrard, focused only on his actual role within a system could be brilliant for us.
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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #269 on: July 28, 2012, 09:31:02 am »
Has Steven Gerrard done something really bad to you? Did he sexually assault you in a past life?



I've had similar shite thrown at me before. I acknowledge what he did for us and how well he played but he's not been anywhere near that for over three years now. I'm a Liverpool Football Club fan. I want what's best for the club. I've seen heroes of our club come and go and every time we have a top player leave then someone else comes along. Dunno how old you are or how long you've followed the team but the club is important and players are transient. Even the best ones. Time for him to move on. I don't have to "hate him" to think that his best days are well behind him.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #270 on: July 28, 2012, 11:53:56 am »
Has Steven Gerrard done something really bad to you? Did he sexually assault you in a past life?



what matter more to you the club or Stevie? serious quaestion.

Your reply was so OTT it beggered belief!
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Offline NorthamptonKopite

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #271 on: July 28, 2012, 12:19:34 pm »
Can still be a huge player for us, no doubt. Think he'll be deployed in a more attacking role next season, either behind or wide of the striker/strikers.

The signing of Allen paves the way for this in my opinion. We all moan about not enough goals from midfield etc, but Gerrard is a top goalscorer when in form. He needs the freedom to play in a more attacking sense, and I think he'll get that this season. He can play numerous positions but here's a couple of teamsheets that could work.

                                  Reina

         Johnson    Skrtel        Agger        Enrique
 
           Lucas/Aquilani         Allen/Henderson

       Gerrard          Suarez/Shelvey        Downing/Bellamy

                           Borini/Carroll

Looking at this first side, there are so many options for where to field Stevie. He can play on the right handside as I've deployed him there, or he could move into just off the striker where Suarez is playing, or even on the left handside, cutting inside to shoot or layoff the ball. He also has the versatility to drop deep into the centre of midfield, although personally I would rather him not play there next season.

                                  Reina

         Johnson    Skrtel        Agger        Enrique
 
                                 Lucas
                 Allen                         Henderson

          Gerrard                                    Suarez       
                             Borini/Carroll


In the 4-3-3 setup Gerrard could play on the right or left hand side of the attacking three, or slot back into a central midfield role, but still with plenty of opportunity to bomb on due to the numbers in centre mid.

I think there's is still a massive place for Gerrard this season, if his form gets better. He had a difficult campaign last year what with injuries, no pre-season etc. This year he's got a good Euro 2012 tournament under his belt where he was England's best player, he's getting a full pre-season after a nice rest, and there are plenty of positions which can accommodate his attacking style.

Hopefully this season we'll see Stevie G reborn.
                           

Offline -Daws-

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #272 on: July 28, 2012, 12:26:42 pm »
Correct. Good post mate. Gerrard cult is right. You'd think he was bigger than the club the way some people go on. It's clearly getting to the time when he needs to move on for the good of the club. With Rodgers new philosphy around now would be the perfect time for him to bow out (Not on a high but leaving people with good memories) but I fear that he'll still be hanging around in 4 or 5 years.

I've had similar shite thrown at me before. I acknowledge what he did for us and how well he played but he's not been anywhere near that for over three years now. I'm a Liverpool Football Club fan. I want what's best for the club. I've seen heroes of our club come and go and every time we have a top player leave then someone else comes along. Dunno how old you are or how long you've followed the team but the club is important and players are transient. Even the best ones. Time for him to move on. I don't have to "hate him" to think that his best days are well behind him.

I think you're being a little harsh there, Andy. I do see where you're coming from, because Gerrard hasn't been at his deverstating best for the last three maybe even four years; he certainly hasn't performed consistantly at the level he did when he was 23-27, and he's guilty of being almost sloppy at times, and looking disinterested, but the man has been an absolute pillar at LFC over the last decade is you have to respect the guy for that.

I don't think he is to be written off yet. Yes his body has been battered over the years and he's had more than his fair share of injuries, pain killing injections and whatnot which will probably not stand him in the best stead now, at the twilight end of his career, but he is still an incredibly talented footballer. He'll still put in an excellent cross, is a fantastic finisher and is deadly in and around the edge of the penalty area. He may not have the blistering pace and dynamism he once did, but it's there in glimpsys and if we manage him correctly and he adapts his game slightly, he can still be very much part of a successful squad over the next couple of years in my opinion.

I think there are mitigating factors to his dip in form over the last couple of years. In Rafas last season he was injured a fair bit, didn't see many minutes to gain momentum and the team was suffering from the loss (and lack of replacement) of Xabi and the fact Torres had gone a bit cold. Since then, for me, he's been played out of position and in a team that has gradually decreased in quality since that brilliant season when we were pipped by United. I don't and never have seen Gerrard as a centre midfielder. Is he a complete midfielder? Yes, or at least he has been, but that doesn't mean he is the right man to be playing bang in the middle of the park or that it is his best position, because it really isn't and I don't care how much Stevie might want to play there, he shouldn't. It's niether good for him or the team.

I think with a Rodgers system we might see the brighter side of Stevie again for a short while. If he's played either behind the striker or part of a front three on the right hand side, we can really exploit his qualities once again, in the knowledge that the rest of the team are doing their job and he just has to be part of that team doing his. He still has an excellent eye for a final ball too and players like Suarez and Borini will want Gerrard on the pitch. We mustn't burn him out though, he will need rests.

Gerrard is still a goal and assist threat, but what we don't wanna' see is him marauding all around the park trying to re-live his mid-twenties, because that's when he will not only cause himself problems, but be to the detriment the whole team as well. I don't blame him for being frustraited and off the boil at times recently, he has still given his wonderful career for the club and still has something to offer. I don't see why he can't do something similar to Scholes or Giggs here, as he is every bit as talented.
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Offline mart356

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #273 on: July 28, 2012, 12:33:07 pm »
bottom line is, when hes allowed to push up the pitch and not worry about anything else, he's looked great and the team have done well. Specifically speaking Norwich away and Everton at home.

Offline Mr Kipling

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #274 on: July 28, 2012, 12:46:41 pm »
Not this again.

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #275 on: July 28, 2012, 12:48:09 pm »
I think you're being a little harsh there, Andy. I do see where you're coming from, because Gerrard hasn't been at his deverstating best for the last three maybe even four years; he certainly hasn't performed consistantly at the level he did when he was 23-27, and he's guilty of being almost sloppy at times, and looking disinterested, but the man has been an absolute pillar at LFC over the last decade is you have to respect the guy for that.

I don't think he is to be written off yet. Yes his body has been battered over the years and he's had more than his fair share of injuries, pain killing injections and whatnot which will probably not stand him in the best stead now, at the twilight end of his career, but he is still an incredibly talented footballer. He'll still put in an excellent cross, is a fantastic finisher and is deadly in and around the edge of the penalty area. He may not have the blistering pace and dynamism he once did, but it's there in glimpsys and if we manage him correctly and he adapts his game slightly, he can still be very much part of a successful squad over the next couple of years in my opinion.

I think there are mitigating factors to his dip in form over the last couple of years. In Rafas last season he was injured a fair bit, didn't see many minutes to gain momentum and the team was suffering from the loss (and lack of replacement) of Xabi and the fact Torres had gone a bit cold. Since then, for me, he's been played out of position and in a team that has gradually decreased in quality since that brilliant season when we were pipped by United. I don't and never have seen Gerrard as a centre midfielder. Is he a complete midfielder? Yes, or at least he has been, but that doesn't mean he is the right man to be playing bang in the middle of the park or that it is his best position, because it really isn't and I don't care how much Stevie might want to play there, he shouldn't. It's niether good for him or the team.

I think with a Rodgers system we might see the brighter side of Stevie again for a short while. If he's played either behind the striker or part of a front three on the right hand side, we can really exploit his qualities once again, in the knowledge that the rest of the team are doing their job and he just has to be part of that team doing his. He still has an excellent eye for a final ball too and players like Suarez and Borini will want Gerrard on the pitch. We mustn't burn him out though, he will need rests.

Gerrard is still a goal and assist threat, but what we don't wanna' see is him marauding all around the park trying to re-live his mid-twenties, because that's when he will not only cause himself problems, but be to the detriment the whole team as well. I don't blame him for being frustraited and off the boil at times recently, he has still given his wonderful career for the club and still has something to offer. I don't see why he can't do something similar to Scholes or Giggs here, as he is every bit as talented.

Hope you're right and for the time Gerrard is at the club we see him at his best. Let's hope that Rodgers can bring the best out of him.
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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #276 on: July 28, 2012, 12:55:31 pm »
what matter more to you the club or Stevie? serious quaestion.

Your reply was so OTT it beggered belief!

It wasnt aimed at just that one post by Andy. Look through any Gerrard thread and he's on most pages pointing out negatives about him. The club matters more for me, obviously. For us to play to our best next year we will need Steven Gerrard. He is still our best midfield player, Lucas arguably joining him now. If he has an injury free season he will be fantastic for us. Fair enough if you or Andy thinks he shouldnt be a guaranteed starter. Thats something which I again disagree with but that would be a fair opinion to have with decent evidence to show for it. Time for him to move on? Thats just so fucking retarded it beggars belief.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #277 on: July 28, 2012, 01:10:24 pm »
Thing is though that a future without Gerrard is pretty much one of the biggest issues for Rodgers to handle and it´s in Stevies hand entirely how much dignity and benefit for the team there will be as a result.

It´s a big issue for Roders, a very big one. Players accepting being sidelined as a regular are very rare, especially when they used to be the ones in the center of attention. In Stevies case he pretty much gave up winning the number of trophies he truly would have deserved considering his qualities so there is still unfinished business for him. Maybe he thinks the club owes him, for sure he will try to make the most out of his last couple of years which could be the opposite what´s good for team in a lot of games.

Compared to Cara, who obviously made the most out of his career just for being a Liverpool local and very ambition player, it´s not an easy situation for Stevie, that´s for sure. But for Rodgers, this issue could turn out even more difficult.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 03:06:40 pm by steveeastend »
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Offline redoneusa

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #278 on: July 28, 2012, 01:13:22 pm »
He is still by far one of our best players, and certainly not over the hill yet. There is no way in a million years we either a) have a suitable world class replacement or b) can afford not to include a fit Stevie G in our team.

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Re: A future without Steven Gerrard
« Reply #279 on: July 28, 2012, 01:13:33 pm »
bottom line is, when hes allowed to push up the pitch and not worry about anything else, he's looked great and the team have done well. Specifically speaking Norwich away and Everton at home.

Over the last couple of years he'll have had a boss game and you think "he's back to his best again now", and then he'll just do fuck all for another few months. A lot of it's down to the position he's been playing, but I don't know if he's got it in him to be consistent anymore.
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