Me too hass.
Coming from a professional, like yourself, I'm amazed at the wooliness of your thinking.
You say elsewhere that "we can't have players learning on the trade" (I'll assume you mean 'learning their trade on the job"). Sounds impressive but if this were really true then we'd never play anybody under 25 again (and anyone over 25 would have to have been blooded elsewhere). But thankfully it isn't true. All great players learn their trade on the job. I know not one who has emerged out of a chrysalis on Day One to play like a fully-formed butterfly.
I mentioned Hansen. You mentioned Hansen. That's nice. We both remember him. So you'll remember his first season in Liverpool colours? I loved him from the off, but only his Mum would say he didn't make some howlers. I mean real howlers - the Man City and Man Utd away games in the first few weeks of Hansen's career remain lodged in my memory. Yours too, since you're a professional. But you know better than me that we stuck with him and saw him grow and were rewarded at the end of the season by being crowned European Champions. And the ex-Partick Thistle lad looked good with a medal round his neck.
Why did we stick with him despite those head-in-hands moments? Because it was evident to everyone that the lad's all-round game was full of potential and that once he became more battle-worn we'd have a serious player on our hands.
So unlike you I'm not looking for perfection as soon as the starting-gun fires. Coates will make big errors on the pitch (as you say he did v Rangers). We have to expect that. But two considerations ought to mitigate this bad news.
1. Are we error-free right now? Just to pick on the last league goal we conceded. Wellbeck's headed assist (where the hell was his marker Carragher?). Hernandez's headed goal (where the hell was his marker Skrtel?). That's Welbeck and Hernandez by the way - two wee kids learning their trade on the job . The answer - obviously - is 'no we are not'. So I'm afraid I'm unimpressed when you professionally point out a couple of Coates errors. Seen too many from the other fellas you see.
2. So what if he makes the odd error? If he's as good as the club think he is then we ought, at the same time, to see more than the odd pre-emptive tackle and towering header and composure on the ball and incisive pass. Stuff, in other words, that two of our current centre-backs struggle to achieve. I'll take the odd blunder from Coates if it means he adds a much-needed dimension to Liverpool's defensive game. If the lad has potential the only he'll fulfill it is by playing regular football. The only thing I'd ask is that we play him alongside our best central defender so that any mistakes he makes are better hoovered up.
So that's Agger and Coates then - starting, as hass says, v Norwich.
Firstly, good post.
Secondly, no chance of Agger and Coates starting against Norwich.
Next, you talk about Welbeck and Hernandes, strikers. It is rather a bit tough to let 20 year CBs make howlers than 20 year old forwards, because you lose goals at this end if you make howlers.
Now, where the hell did I say I was making a professional point of view. Stop with the dichotomy. I just said that you were making arm-chair judgements wanting to put an inexperienced kid as starting back before he is properly settled. Getting the drift, not always either-or.
We gave Hansen chances, because we had to. Emlyn was getting on, and Hansen had to wait a year before he ousted Emlyn. Not even beginning to take in to account, that Hansen was a class above everyone we have ever seen. Saying that Coates is not on that level, should in no way be taken as an insult to Coates. Carra, is still playing well. For Welbeck's flick-on, Carra was marshalling him closely, and didn't give him a free header. If Skrtel had done the same, we would have been fine.
Having potential and being ready to start for Liverpool as CB in premier league which is faster than anything Coates has seen is completely different. I hope this isn't too hard to fathom.
Even playing in the south american championships, Coates needed to be steered by Lugano, and Coates came in only because Godin was injured.
From what I have seen, his mis-interceptions, misreading a couple of situations, and other stuff, he isn't ready to play in the premier league. For me it will take 2-3 years before he is ready to cement his place based on performances, when he acquires the experiences defenders need.
He has potential, and is much better than Wilson is at the moment, but I wouldn't take chances putting him at CB. Here at Liverpool we have reduced our standards a bit over the years, but still putting a kid who is not ready at CB, is gambling with points which can't be justified.
Coates should start cup games, and he will definitely play a role in this club's future, but not yet. Maybe he will accelerate in his progress.
I think you are confusing my statement, he needs time with he can't play. I can see no other reason to the whole "why did we persist with him" monologue in your post above which has nothing to do with my point, if you had understood it.
Also, the much-needed dimension he will add in our defence- you talk about, check before you fire ahead of yourself. Coates is known to play a deep line at Nacional. You can check media articles analyzing his game when he signed for us.
So, don't get driven by your own hype, try to understand the point before you draw conclusions, and lets hope Coates fulfills his potential.