Author Topic: Andre Wisdom - Colossus of the future at LFC? (Read 201464 times)

Mr_Morosoph · « **Reply #240 on:** October 11, 2012, 07:15:04 pm »

“Andre went over on his shoulder playing for his club and it was something that just didn’t ease up at all,” revealed Pearce. “We got him on the training pitch on Wednesday but we just felt that it wasn’t easing up, so he’s gone back to Liverpool."

Fauxy · « **Reply #241 on:** October 12, 2012, 12:53:14 am »

Quote from: hugoboss on October 11, 2012, 02:08:17 pm

Why do people assume that because a young full back or a young player playing at full back hasn't developed their attacking game that they must be better suited to center of the defense. His job is to defend first and attack second, he will get there soon enough when he learns the position alot more and has more confidence to get forward and attack. However he already gets forward and offers an extra body in the building attacks with short passing and movement rather than dribbling or crossing

Well you just said yourself that he has yet to develop his attacking game, meaning he would be better at centre half no ?

Of course he can develop his attacking game and become a good right back, I just think right now he is a better player at centre half

Dentron · « **Reply #242 on:** October 12, 2012, 12:59:45 am »

For anyone that doesn't like Wisdom's attacking ability... What do you think about Martin Kelly at fullback? Honest question.

peachybum · « **Reply #243 on:** October 12, 2012, 01:08:01 am »

Quote from: Dentron on October 12, 2012, 12:59:45 am

For anyone that doesn't like Wisdom's attacking ability... What do you think about Martin Kelly at fullback? Honest question.

Wisdom has better mobility, control and passing than Kelly but lacks Kelly's running ability and general understanding of driving down the flank. I think Wisdom will learn the attacking side if he continues in the fullback role just like Kelly did.

ryatnalkar · « **Reply #244 on:** October 12, 2012, 01:08:01 am »

From the short spell I have seen of wisdom, he is marginally better than Kelly. I think a little faster little more agile, little more adept at short passing, better at keeping the ball or shielding the ball. Kelly has a wonderful strike on him and a good cross. I don't rate Kelly's offensive decision making much. Haven't seen wisdom shoot much or cross much

Fauxy · « **Reply #245 on:** October 12, 2012, 01:19:18 am »

Quote from: Dentron on October 12, 2012, 12:59:45 am

For anyone that doesn't like Wisdom's attacking ability... What do you think about Martin Kelly at fullback? Honest question.

I think Kelly is better going forward because he's more willing to make them driving runs. Wisdom plays it a bit more safe, maybe is a little shy to go beyond the full back to the byline. Kelly has a great defensive game, as does Wisdom. What Wisdom beats kelly most at is the possesion game. He has a better touch, gets his head up and is really composed. Wisdom just suits our style a bit better I reckon.

careful on these streets, I've heard stories · « **Reply #246 on:** October 12, 2012, 02:20:24 am »

Quote from: Fauxy on October 12, 2012, 12:53:14 am

Well you just said yourself that he has yet to develop his attacking game, meaning he would be better at centre half no ?

Of course he can develop his attacking game and become a good right back, I just think right now he is a better player at centre half

No, that doesn't mean he would be better at CB it means he is doing really well at RB and can improve, also thankfully the manager has seen that the qualities he has will be more useful at RB.

careful on these streets, I've heard stories · « **Reply #247 on:** October 12, 2012, 02:23:15 am »

Quote from: ryatnalkar on October 12, 2012, 01:08:01 am

From the short spell I have seen of wisdom, he is marginally better than Kelly. I think a little faster little more agile, little more adept at short passing, better at keeping the ball or shielding the ball. Kelly has a wonderful strike on him and a good cross. I don't rate Kelly's offensive decision making much. Haven't seen wisdom shoot much or cross much

At the moment Wisdom plays in a similar way to Arbeloa, you won't see him bombing forward down the flank and crossing the ball but he will get forward and join in the build up for attacks and with time he will hopefully offer more as a goal threat

Z e u s · « **Reply #248 on:** October 12, 2012, 02:23:16 am »

Quote from: Fauxy on October 12, 2012, 01:19:18 am

I think Kelly is better going forward because he's more willing to make them driving runs. Wisdom plays it a bit more safe, maybe is a little shy to go beyond the full back to the byline. Kelly has a great defensive game, as does Wisdom. What Wisdom beats kelly most at is the possesion game. He has a better touch, gets his head up and is really composed. Wisdom just suits our style a bit better I reckon.

I agree.

Can see both of them ending up as centre halfs in the future.

But for now they'll be full backs and the depth at right back is really strong.

careful on these streets, I've heard stories · « **Reply #249 on:** October 12, 2012, 02:24:49 am »

Quote from: Fauxy on October 12, 2012, 01:19:18 am

I think Kelly is better going forward because he's more willing to make them driving runs. Wisdom plays it a bit more safe, maybe is a little shy to go beyond the full back to the byline. Kelly has a great defensive game, as does Wisdom. What Wisdom beats kelly most at is the possesion game. He has a better touch, gets his head up and is really composed. Wisdom just suits our style a bit better I reckon.

Do you think keeping the ball, short passing and close control are more important for a RB or a CB?

GrkStav · « **Reply #250 on:** October 12, 2012, 07:13:49 am »

The notion that Kelly is better defensively than Wisdom is bizarre to me. On what basis is this claim being put forth?

jtouche · « **Reply #251 on:** October 12, 2012, 09:00:38 am »

I think this will tell us what BR thinks. A modern day full-back

"And Rodgers believes the duo have all the attributes to make a big impression at Anfield over the next few years."

He said: “They were outstanding. When I came in, Andre Wisdom had been playing a lot at centre-half but he has the physical and technical capacity to play full-back.

“The modern day full-back has a lot of the ball and he has got to have strength, pace and power. Andre has that.

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/10/02/andre-wisdom-can-become-the-ideal-modern-full-back-says-liverpool-fc-boss-brendan-rodgers-100252-31945550/#ixzz294NNGwvr

Dentron · « **Reply #252 on:** October 12, 2012, 10:28:07 am »

I'm of the opinion that Kelly is untenable as a premier league RB. I don't understand what anyone sees in him going forward. He has trouble controlling the ball when it's played to him, even more trouble maintaining possession with his passing game, and his movement away from the ball leaves me scratching my head pretty often. He takes miserable 20 yard touches towards the touch with his head down, which I think some people may mistake for useful football. He looks to have no idea where his teammates are, and I don't remember seeing him ever pick anyone out with a cross. The only goal, hell the only chance, I can remember him setting up with a cross is the own goal at Hearts. I see him as the antithesis of what a fullback should look like in Rodgers' system.

Wisdom, on the other hand, is fantastic in possession. He isn't going to race to the touch with his head down and launch in aimless crosses, but why would you want that?

Kovai Red · « **Reply #253 on:** October 12, 2012, 10:36:44 am »

Quote from: Dentron on October 12, 2012, 10:28:07 am

I'm of the opinion that Kelly is untenable as a premier league RB. I don't understand what anyone sees in him going forward. He has trouble controlling the ball when it's played to him, even more trouble maintaining possession with his passing game, and his movement away from the ball leaves me scratching my head pretty often. He takes miserable 20 yard touches towards the touch with his head down, which I think some people may mistake for useful football. He looks to have no idea where his teammates are, and I don't remember seeing him ever pick anyone out with a cross. The only goal, hell the only chance, I can remember him setting up with a cross is the own goal at Hearts. I see him as the antithesis of what a fullback should look like in Rodgers' system.

Wisdom, on the other hand, is fantastic in possession. He isn't going to race to the touch with his head down and launch in aimless crosses, but why would you want that?

I am sure, you will undermine Wisdom when some younger player say Ryan plays his first few matches for us.

careful on these streets, I've heard stories · « **Reply #254 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:17:31 am »

Quote from: Dentron on October 12, 2012, 10:28:07 am

I'm of the opinion that Kelly is untenable as a premier league RB. I don't understand what anyone sees in him going forward. He has trouble controlling the ball when it's played to him, even more trouble maintaining possession with his passing game, and his movement away from the ball leaves me scratching my head pretty often. He takes miserable 20 yard touches towards the touch with his head down, which I think some people may mistake for useful football. He looks to have no idea where his teammates are, and I don't remember seeing him ever pick anyone out with a cross. The only goal, hell the only chance, I can remember him setting up with a cross is the own goal at Hearts. I see him as the antithesis of what a fullback should look like in Rodgers' system.

Wisdom, on the other hand, is fantastic in possession. He isn't going to race to the touch with his head down and launch in aimless crosses, but why would you want that?

While I prefer Wisdom to Kelly at RB, this is a very harsh and inaccurate analysis of his game. Kelly has done well at RB both offensively and defensively but he has a different style to Wisdom and I think Wisdom's style suits the position more. Kelly can go on marauding runs but he needs to build up some momentum first, personal I think it will be more effective against park the bus teams where he has the space to gain that momentum plus he has a nice shot on him.

Technically he is good but not as good as Wisdom in close control, if he plays at CB he will won't need that close control as much and will probably have more time to get the ball under control and he will have alot more options to pass than when playing at RB.

Stan. · « **Reply #255 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:20:51 am »

To be fair for a fairly inexperienced centre-half, Kelly does a bloody good job at right back for us at this level. Obviously Wisdom's attributes suit the position better, so it'll certainly be interesting to see how he develops, as most of his football has been played at centre half too.

Fromola · « **Reply #256 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:21:35 am »

The problem with Martin Kelly is he can't play 3 games at right back without getting injured.

Although considering Wisdom's now injured maybe that position really is just a true jinx given the injury problems we've had from Rob Jones onwards.

careful on these streets, I've heard stories · « **Reply #257 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:31:04 am »

Quote from: Stan. on October 12, 2012, 11:20:51 am

To be fair for a fairly inexperienced centre-half, Kelly does a bloody good job at right back for us at this level. Obviously Wisdom's attributes suit the position better, so it'll certainly be interesting to see how he develops, as most of his football has been played at centre half too.

I think Kelly would make a wonderful CB, he has that Carra's knack for last ditch interceptions, strong, tall, quick and good on the ball hopefully he hasn't forgotten the tactical parts of being a CB

Draex · « **Reply #258 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:34:28 am »

Wisdom has excellent feet for someone that's built like a brick shit house. His close ball control on the touchline is really top class.

Has anyone considered him for the DM role? I still think he is slightly too short for CB, he will gradually go central as he matures - he was always one of the highly rated youngsters but stagnented last year a little bit.. Glad to see he's siezed his chance with both hands - he really has the potential to be top top class, he is also an excellent leader on the pitch.

careful on these streets, I've heard stories · « **Reply #259 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:46:07 am »

Quote from: Draex on October 12, 2012, 11:34:28 am

Wisdom has excellent feet for someone that's built like a brick shit house. His close ball control on the touchline is really top class.

Has anyone considered him for the DM role? I still think he is slightly too short for CB, he will gradually go central as he matures - he was always one of the highly rated youngsters but stagnented last year a little bit.. Glad to see he's siezed his chance with both hands - he really has the potential to be top top class, he is also an excellent leader on the pitch.

I swear I was thinking the exact same thing that he may be suited for DM role but I don't know if he has the vision required to play in that role

Draex · « **Reply #260 on:** October 12, 2012, 12:21:06 pm »

Quote from: hugoboss on October 12, 2012, 11:46:07 am

I swear I was thinking the exact same thing that he may be suited for DM role but I don't know if he has the vision required to play in that role

When he played CB for the youth teams his distribution (especially long/diagonal ball's) was excellent so I think his vision is certainly good enough. He was always touted as a ball playing center half, with excellent technical ability.

SYLENTm · « **Reply #261 on:** October 12, 2012, 03:16:16 pm »

I'd stick with him at RB as he doesn't drive forward often, with Jonhson doing that for 90 mins we need him to stay back. Both fullbacks attacking will lead to even more conceded goals.

Swedish_Red · « **Reply #262 on:** October 12, 2012, 03:38:17 pm »

Both Wisdom and Kelly can do the job on the right but if I had to chose I would pick Wisdom over Kelly.
Only played a few games so far but look better on the passing game more composed with the ball while Kelly slips on his feet more often like he´s not comfortable playing out there.
Great to have them both though otherwise we wouldn´t have this conversation so instead of comparing them we would be worried if Johnson was out

benitezthered · « **Reply #263 on:** October 12, 2012, 06:37:15 pm »

Been mightily impressed by Wisdom so far. Obviously hasn't played against an aggressive, attacking winger yet but he can only play what is in front of him.

One of the big positives so far this season for me, but we must remain patient - he'll have his ups and downs like any young player...

kasperoff · « **Reply #264 on:** October 12, 2012, 08:15:16 pm »

Doing a cracking job. i've been really impressed by this lad.

Dentron · « **Reply #265 on:** October 13, 2012, 03:06:04 am »

Quote from: Kovai Red on October 12, 2012, 10:36:44 am

I am sure, you will undermine Wisdom when some younger player say Ryan plays his first few matches for us.

Why would you assume that? I've been wildly impressed with Wisdom since the first time I saw him in an academy game. I don't think I've been higher on many of our youngsters. Never thought he'd be playing fullback for the first team, but he's been impressive. I've watched Kelly progress for years as well on lfc.tv, and I've never thought he looked comfortable on the ball. He's solid defensively but poor in possession. I've never understood the praise Kelly has received here. People talking about selling Glen Johnson because we have Kelly has had me pulling my hair out in the past. I think people see what they want to see when they look at players coming through our system. Myself included. I definitely thought the likes of Dalle Valle and Amoo would become solid first team players eventually.

Aristotle · « **Reply #266 on:** October 20, 2012, 05:27:54 pm »

He is some player. He doesn't really seem imposing but he has one thing about him most youngsters don't, is that he seems, for the lack of a better description, have grown into his body. Kelly and Coates are imposing figures but they sometimes seem to big for their own good. Wisdom seems so fluid in all his movements that you can't believe he hasn't been playing professional first team football for years.

Mutton Geoff · « **Reply #267 on:** October 20, 2012, 05:31:37 pm »

Wasnt his best game but he battled through to the end, and never looked to hide, he will learn more from a game like this than an easy win.

FernandoSusoLFC · « **Reply #268 on:** October 20, 2012, 05:31:41 pm »

Boss again.

surfer. Fuck you generator. · « **Reply #269 on:** October 20, 2012, 06:45:41 pm »

Quote from: geoffstrong on October 20, 2012, 05:31:37 pm

Wasnt his best game but he battled through to the end, and never looked to hide, he will learn more from a game like this than an easy win.

Yeah, hard to say from this far away, but think there's a presence to the player, a calmness, maturity and ultimately leadership quality. Just a hunch, but think he's captain / vice captain material.

edit: shit just checked wiki and he captained the reserves apparently. Haha, I have powers!

LondonRedMan · « **Reply #270 on:** October 20, 2012, 06:48:37 pm »

Solid game today

Luke Timmis · « **Reply #271 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:02:30 am »

cant get over how good this guy is. probably doing him the world of good that suso and sterling are playing as well and possibly taking some pressure off him

Saint Kopite · « **Reply #272 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:06:50 am »

Andre The Giant!

LewisR · « **Reply #273 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:11:31 am »

He is fantastic...with Enrique, Johnson, Kelly and Wisdom all fit (if they ever will be) it'll be a tough decision to choose who starts.

babraham · « **Reply #274 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:28:54 am »

I think the thing he did best today was winning headers. Seemed to win an awful lot today. Also, look at the build up to Sterling's goal. It's a header from Wisdom that allows Suarez to put Sterling through.

Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word · « **Reply #275 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:34:06 am »

Another solid performance, would like to seem get forward more but I imagine Rodgers gave Johnson attacking freedom and made sure Widsom limited his attacking runs.

Alonso_The_Assassin · « **Reply #276 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:38:09 am »

Seems to have a good mentality. Precocious that's for sure. I like the fact he doesn't get forward too much. Given the amount of mistakes we've made at the back this season, I'm more than happy with his position on the pitch. Very similar to the mighty Alvy Arbeloa. Never a bad thing.

redbyrdz · « **Reply #277 on:** October 21, 2012, 01:51:28 am »

Quote from: surfer on October 20, 2012, 06:45:41 pm

Yeah, hard to say from this far away, but think there's a presence to the player, a calmness, maturity and ultimately leadership quality. Just a hunch, but think he's captain / vice captain material.

edit: shit just checked wiki and he captained the reserves apparently. Haha, I have powers!

He's captained most of the youth teams he was in i think, for us and for England.

Anywhichwayicant · « **Reply #278 on:** October 21, 2012, 01:53:18 am »

There was a close up of his face late on in the game yesterday, and the look in his eye was one of absolute calmness, and leadership.

redbyrdz · « **Reply #279 on:** October 21, 2012, 02:04:05 am »

Quote from: Draex on October 12, 2012, 11:34:28 am

Wisdom has excellent feet for someone that's built like a brick shit house. His close ball control on the touchline is really top class.

Has anyone considered him for the DM role? I still think he is slightly too short for CB, he will gradually go central as he matures - he was always one of the highly rated youngsters but stagnented last year a little bit.. Glad to see he's siezed his chance with both hands - he really has the potential to be top top class, he is also an excellent leader on the pitch.

Saw him play half a match in DM for the u18s (? i think), with Coady playing CB instead. Didn't work out at all, they swapped back at half time. He's obviously improve with more experience, but I wouldn't think he's a natural for that position.