Topic: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe

[AirConGipsyRed]

After some coffees and aspirin and a reasonable stand in the stupid corner, I will try and make a sober post this time.

It's a well written piece, but I am not sure it tells us anything we didn't know and I don't think it explains why he didn't put a decent shift in for us other than when playing Chelsea.

Also, I don't believe that the club didn't want to keep him. Kenny says they wanted to keep him. That is enough for me.

Personally, I am moving on  now. The sooner the game on Sunday is over the better and we can move on without this sideshow.

Whatever the motives, whatever the outcome, it is without doubt in my mind that with the current owners, the current manager and the current ethos in place, The Reds are coming up the Hill.

[rossipersempre]

Just in and read this.....no doubt it's been said a million times in the 6 or so pages I haven't trawled through but what a fantastic rational well-argued incisive piece of fucking PR puff that Torres' agent(s) will be made up with, not least because they may well have briefed Sid Lowe in the first place. He's a very decent journo and knows La Liga inside out but please. Like any sort of emotional plea bargain, it's 99% exaggeration for effect. It's trying to condition the reader into thinking "awww, the poor 'ickle lamb". Fuck off.

Yes, we did come out the other side in very decent shape but this notion of Torres the benefactor doing us a favour as he did with Atletico sticks in my craw and makes me want to retch uncontrollably. Enough, the lad felt entitled, but just as the golden sun pierced through the dark clouds of adversity, he bottled it, whipped out his todger and urinated all over any sort of legacy and goodwill he had built up over the last 4 seasons. As they say, reputations take years to build up and seconds to destroy. Case in point.

[mickeydocs]

Fuck Torres. He's a rent boy now and deserves nothing but contempt for his lies.

It strikes me that the management team of el ninny are concerned about the fact that he will sell less shirts now that he has left Liverpool, and that there will be a MASSIVE impact on his marketing value.

[SmithdownAndy]

Just in and read this.....no doubt it's been said a million times in the 6 or so pages I haven't trawled through but what a fantastic rational well-argued incisive piece of fucking PR puff that Torres' agent(s) will be made up with, not least because they may well have briefed Sid Lowe in the first place. He's a very decent journo and knows La Liga inside out but please. Like any sort of emotional plea bargain, it's 99% exaggeration for effect. It's trying to condition the reader into thinking "awww, the poor 'ickle lamb". Fuck off.

Yes, we did come out the other side in very decent shape but this notion of Torres the benefactor doing us a favour as he did with Atletico sticks in my craw and makes me want to retch uncontrollably. Enough, the lad felt entitled, but just as the golden sun pierced through the dark clouds of adversity, he bottled it, whipped out his todger and urinated all over any sort of legacy and goodwill he had built up over the last 4 seasons. As they say, reputations take years to build up and seconds to destroy. Case in point.

Absolutely spot on mate, this Knight in shining armour is a load of bollocks, he's been sulking for 18 months, he's just another one in a long line of mercenary footballers.

[pjf519]

My Torres/Suarez song for Sunday:

his armband proved he was a fake - torres torres
he left to play for money's sake - torres torres
we loved the guy, he let us down
we'll abuse him when he's next in town
fernando torres replaced by luis suarez

na na na na na na na na suarez suarez
na na na na na na na na suarez suarez

he replaced the fake
and made us smile
got a goal in his first start
and made us go wild
luis suarez liverpools new big name

na na na na na na na na suarez suarez
na na na na na na na na suarez suarez

---
would be great if we can get this going!

[MagicB8all]

Posted this in another thread but thought it was more appropriate here:

Some people are still asking why Chelsea, why now? Its quite straightforward and explains Torres's slightly odd statemnt when he was encouraging the club to negotiate with Chelsea and make the right decision for BOTH the player and the club.

First of all you have to accept the fact that, in professional footballing terms, Torres HAD to move on. A striker relying heavily on pace, he has 24 months left at peak condition and it would almost certainly take longer to turn round the club after the disaster of H&G&P. Torres came back from the World Cup with a winners medal to add to his European championship medal. The rest of his teammates feted as the best in the world all playing for top clubs and in the top competitions, two of them soon to be nominated for the balon d'or alongside Messi.

For Torres to have any hope of playing in that team there is simply no way he could afford to be out of the Champions League next season, regressing as astriker under Hodgson, involved in a relegatiuon fight then have a new manager come in who (according to all rules of football logic) would require a transition period before getting back to the top flight.


A contract is a two way thing and this is not the club that Torres had signed up to when he left his boyhood club. He only signed for us because we promised him the opportunities to compete for top honours and we failed, as a club, on our side of the bargain. Surely nobody thinks he would have left had we been challenging for the title and in Europe?

And its easy to say 'give the club a chance'. He did. Again and again - and promises were broken to him by our club. Its easy to gamble with other people's careers but he put his career on the line when, for example, Llorente was breathing down his neck for his starting spot. Remember he stuck with us and gave Hodgson a chance long after most of the people on this forum had given up on him.

So once he had decided to go the question was to which club and when?

Under the FIFA financial fair play rules, this is the last eligible window for club expenses to be registered for the 2010/2011 season. Starting from summer, transfer dealings are part of the 2011/2012 season.

From 2011/2012 clubs will be barred from Champions League and European competition if they are spending 35 million more than they bring in. Chelsea have already announced a 70million pound loss in the last year. Since they are unlikely to turn this around very quickly, if they went on a Summer spending splurge there is a good chance they will be banned from European competition.

Solution?

If you have big name stars you want to sign, do it now before they go 'on the books' for 2011/2012. Hence they had to sign Torres and Luiz during this window. This also explains why Torres had to go to Chelsea - the only other club who might have spent big money on a striker was City who have just completed their lineup by signing Dzeko.

The other consideration is that Chelsea desperately need to get at least fourth place because they will get 35 million pounds of income during next season by qualifying for Champions league and, crucially, this extra income gives them an extra 35 million of leeway on what they can spend.

Hence for both these reasons it makes perfect sense to pay over the odds now rather than wait till summer when Torres would be much less valuable.

This also applies to us. 50 million pounds is great in your pocket but isnt going to score you many goals. We know we need 4-5 players but theres no way we could spend that much in Summer without disqualifying ourselves from European competition either.

It is therefore better to pay over the odds NOW for a big name striker - every pound spent in January means another pound freed up to spend in summer. And what are the rules for buying players according to Sabermetrics/Moneyball? You decrease the impact of the premium we are forced to pay by:

1. Buying a young player
2. Proving he is able to perform in the Premiership
3. Has personal problems / mental attitude that is cheap to fix if addressed in the right way

And hence you see we are in for Andy Carroll, Luis Suarez, Charlie Adams and Micah Richards.
AC will only get better now that he has moved to a better, more scientific club with a higher standard of player. the 'extra' 10 million we are paying for him is actually negligible over the years of his contract, rise in his value, likely international status (not many other strikers like him in England hence marketability and image rights) effects of inflation, being able to effectively spend more this summer and his improvement to our team in general. Remember if by some miracle he manages to get us into 4th spot he will have paid off his entire transfer fee for the rest of his stay here. He will have have been effectively a free transfer.

A lot of fans were saying 'I cant believe we have spent that much on Carroll who is unproven' - you can now see why its a risk but a very clever and calculated one that is almost certain to pay off. Even finishing two places higher should bring in an extra few million pounds and offset the extra cost.

But then I guess a lot of fans would have said the same thing if we had signed Shearer for a million pounds from Southhampton at the end of his first season (after which he hadnt scored any goals).

The upshot is we COULDNT have had Suarez/Carroll/Torres all playing together. The deal was reached at exactly the right time for both Torres and LFC.


NESV are smart cookies, no? It was the right decision all round - if Torres had left when we were offering what we had promised him I would agree with all the stick hes getting. But we broke our promises so I dont. this is NOT down to the player - its the inevitable consequence of Hicks, Gillette and Purslow.

And by the way, can i also ask, why have Moores and Parry managed to escape any of the blame for selling to those idiots in the first place when a cursory examination of their ownership would have revealed what a disaster they were going to be? How did Martin Broughton, not a footballing man and with no previous ties to the club, manage to do a far job of finding the right owners than the supposed guardians of the Liverpool Way?

We should thank Torres for the memories and wish him well for the future - if you know anyone going to the game on Sunday please ask them not to boo him - if they want to demonstrate, they should boo the five clowns mentioned above.

IMO this is the correct take on the situation.  I'll have to check a few points re the transfer expenditure next summer but it all makes sense.  But people don't want sense, they're out for blood.

[BurstingTheNet]

Thought it deserved a thread of its own.  I await the kneejerk namecalling, but Sid Lowe is probably the best writer on Spanish football so this is likely to be pretty well researched and if you are interested in the real reasons that a dream went sour then it is worth reading.

And before you all ask, I do think, and hope, that he will soon realise that he has made a huge mistake and that he should have waited...  but then if some shortarse prick hadn't appointed Roy Dumblewit in the summer then perhaps that would not have been necessary.

Best writer in football. full stop. in my opinion of course.

[rocco]

And where does the money come from?

NESV

[VamosLiverpool]

Torres didn't want to wait. Well boo-hoo. He'll be waiting alot longer at Chelsea.

[Ambrosia]

Best writer in football. full stop. in my opinion of course.

Agree.

[Carlito Roberto]

Posted this in another thread but thought it was more appropriate here:

Some people are still asking why Chelsea, why now? Its quite straightforward and explains Torres's slightly odd statemnt when he was encouraging the club to negotiate with Chelsea and make the right decision for BOTH the player and the club.

First of all you have to accept the fact that, in professional footballing terms, Torres HAD to move on. A striker relying heavily on pace, he has 24 months left at peak condition and it would almost certainly take longer to turn round the club after the disaster of H&G&P. Torres came back from the World Cup with a winners medal to add to his European championship medal. The rest of his teammates feted as the best in the world all playing for top clubs and in the top competitions, two of them soon to be nominated for the balon d'or alongside Messi.

For Torres to have any hope of playing in that team there is simply no way he could afford to be out of the Champions League next season, regressing as astriker under Hodgson, involved in a relegatiuon fight then have a new manager come in who (according to all rules of football logic) would require a transition period before getting back to the top flight.


A contract is a two way thing and this is not the club that Torres had signed up to when he left his boyhood club. He only signed for us because we promised him the opportunities to compete for top honours and we failed, as a club, on our side of the bargain. Surely nobody thinks he would have left had we been challenging for the title and in Europe?

And its easy to say 'give the club a chance'. He did. Again and again - and promises were broken to him by our club. Its easy to gamble with other people's careers but he put his career on the line when, for example, Llorente was breathing down his neck for his starting spot. Remember he stuck with us and gave Hodgson a chance long after most of the people on this forum had given up on him.

So once he had decided to go the question was to which club and when?

Under the FIFA financial fair play rules, this is the last eligible window for club expenses to be registered for the 2010/2011 season. Starting from summer, transfer dealings are part of the 2011/2012 season.

From 2011/2012 clubs will be barred from Champions League and European competition if they are spending 35 million more than they bring in. Chelsea have already announced a 70million pound loss in the last year. Since they are unlikely to turn this around very quickly, if they went on a Summer spending splurge there is a good chance they will be banned from European competition.

Solution?

If you have big name stars you want to sign, do it now before they go 'on the books' for 2011/2012. Hence they had to sign Torres and Luiz during this window. This also explains why Torres had to go to Chelsea - the only other club who might have spent big money on a striker was City who have just completed their lineup by signing Dzeko.

The other consideration is that Chelsea desperately need to get at least fourth place because they will get 35 million pounds of income during next season by qualifying for Champions league and, crucially, this extra income gives them an extra 35 million of leeway on what they can spend.

Hence for both these reasons it makes perfect sense to pay over the odds now rather than wait till summer when Torres would be much less valuable.

This also applies to us. 50 million pounds is great in your pocket but isnt going to score you many goals. We know we need 4-5 players but theres no way we could spend that much in Summer without disqualifying ourselves from European competition either.

It is therefore better to pay over the odds NOW for a big name striker - every pound spent in January means another pound freed up to spend in summer. And what are the rules for buying players according to Sabermetrics/Moneyball? You decrease the impact of the premium we are forced to pay by:

1. Buying a young player
2. Proving he is able to perform in the Premiership
3. Has personal problems / mental attitude that is cheap to fix if addressed in the right way

And hence you see we are in for Andy Carroll, Luis Suarez, Charlie Adams and Micah Richards.
AC will only get better now that he has moved to a better, more scientific club with a higher standard of player. the 'extra' 10 million we are paying for him is actually negligible over the years of his contract, rise in his value, likely international status (not many other strikers like him in England hence marketability and image rights) effects of inflation, being able to effectively spend more this summer and his improvement to our team in general. Remember if by some miracle he manages to get us into 4th spot he will have paid off his entire transfer fee for the rest of his stay here. He will have have been effectively a free transfer.

A lot of fans were saying 'I cant believe we have spent that much on Carroll who is unproven' - you can now see why its a risk but a very clever and calculated one that is almost certain to pay off. Even finishing two places higher should bring in an extra few million pounds and offset the extra cost.

But then I guess a lot of fans would have said the same thing if we had signed Shearer for a million pounds from Southhampton at the end of his first season (after which he hadnt scored any goals).

The upshot is we COULDNT have had Suarez/Carroll/Torres all playing together. The deal was reached at exactly the right time for both Torres and LFC.


NESV are smart cookies, no? It was the right decision all round - if Torres had left when we were offering what we had promised him I would agree with all the stick hes getting. But we broke our promises so I dont. this is NOT down to the player - its the inevitable consequence of Hicks, Gillette and Purslow.

And by the way, can i also ask, why have Moores and Parry managed to escape any of the blame for selling to those idiots in the first place when a cursory examination of their ownership would have revealed what a disaster they were going to be? How did Martin Broughton, not a footballing man and with no previous ties to the club, manage to do a far job of finding the right owners than the supposed guardians of the Liverpool Way?

We should thank Torres for the memories and wish him well for the future - if you know anyone going to the game on Sunday please ask them not to boo him - if they want to demonstrate, they should boo the five clowns mentioned above.

Great post.

[scatman]

Posted this in another thread but thought it was more appropriate here:

Some people are still asking why Chelsea, why now? Its quite straightforward and explains Torres's slightly odd statemnt when he was encouraging the club to negotiate with Chelsea and make the right decision for BOTH the player and the club.

First of all you have to accept the fact that, in professional footballing terms, Torres HAD to move on. A striker relying heavily on pace, he has 24 months left at peak condition and it would almost certainly take longer to turn round the club after the disaster of H&G&P. Torres came back from the World Cup with a winners medal to add to his European championship medal. The rest of his teammates feted as the best in the world all playing for top clubs and in the top competitions, two of them soon to be nominated for the balon d'or alongside Messi.

For Torres to have any hope of playing in that team there is simply no way he could afford to be out of the Champions League next season, regressing as astriker under Hodgson, involved in a relegatiuon fight then have a new manager come in who (according to all rules of football logic) would require a transition period before getting back to the top flight.


A contract is a two way thing and this is not the club that Torres had signed up to when he left his boyhood club. He only signed for us because we promised him the opportunities to compete for top honours and we failed, as a club, on our side of the bargain. Surely nobody thinks he would have left had we been challenging for the title and in Europe?

And its easy to say 'give the club a chance'. He did. Again and again - and promises were broken to him by our club. Its easy to gamble with other people's careers but he put his career on the line when, for example, Llorente was breathing down his neck for his starting spot. Remember he stuck with us and gave Hodgson a chance long after most of the people on this forum had given up on him.

So once he had decided to go the question was to which club and when?

Under the FIFA financial fair play rules, this is the last eligible window for club expenses to be registered for the 2010/2011 season. Starting from summer, transfer dealings are part of the 2011/2012 season.

From 2011/2012 clubs will be barred from Champions League and European competition if they are spending 35 million more than they bring in. Chelsea have already announced a 70million pound loss in the last year. Since they are unlikely to turn this around very quickly, if they went on a Summer spending splurge there is a good chance they will be banned from European competition.

Solution?

If you have big name stars you want to sign, do it now before they go 'on the books' for 2011/2012. Hence they had to sign Torres and Luiz during this window. This also explains why Torres had to go to Chelsea - the only other club who might have spent big money on a striker was City who have just completed their lineup by signing Dzeko.

The other consideration is that Chelsea desperately need to get at least fourth place because they will get 35 million pounds of income during next season by qualifying for Champions league and, crucially, this extra income gives them an extra 35 million of leeway on what they can spend.

Hence for both these reasons it makes perfect sense to pay over the odds now rather than wait till summer when Torres would be much less valuable.

This also applies to us. 50 million pounds is great in your pocket but isnt going to score you many goals. We know we need 4-5 players but theres no way we could spend that much in Summer without disqualifying ourselves from European competition either.

It is therefore better to pay over the odds NOW for a big name striker - every pound spent in January means another pound freed up to spend in summer. And what are the rules for buying players according to Sabermetrics/Moneyball? You decrease the impact of the premium we are forced to pay by:

1. Buying a young player
2. Proving he is able to perform in the Premiership
3. Has personal problems / mental attitude that is cheap to fix if addressed in the right way

And hence you see we are in for Andy Carroll, Luis Suarez, Charlie Adams and Micah Richards.
AC will only get better now that he has moved to a better, more scientific club with a higher standard of player. the 'extra' 10 million we are paying for him is actually negligible over the years of his contract, rise in his value, likely international status (not many other strikers like him in England hence marketability and image rights) effects of inflation, being able to effectively spend more this summer and his improvement to our team in general. Remember if by some miracle he manages to get us into 4th spot he will have paid off his entire transfer fee for the rest of his stay here. He will have have been effectively a free transfer.

A lot of fans were saying 'I cant believe we have spent that much on Carroll who is unproven' - you can now see why its a risk but a very clever and calculated one that is almost certain to pay off. Even finishing two places higher should bring in an extra few million pounds and offset the extra cost.

But then I guess a lot of fans would have said the same thing if we had signed Shearer for a million pounds from Southhampton at the end of his first season (after which he hadnt scored any goals).

The upshot is we COULDNT have had Suarez/Carroll/Torres all playing together. The deal was reached at exactly the right time for both Torres and LFC.


NESV are smart cookies, no? It was the right decision all round - if Torres had left when we were offering what we had promised him I would agree with all the stick hes getting. But we broke our promises so I dont. this is NOT down to the player - its the inevitable consequence of Hicks, Gillette and Purslow.

And by the way, can i also ask, why have Moores and Parry managed to escape any of the blame for selling to those idiots in the first place when a cursory examination of their ownership would have revealed what a disaster they were going to be? How did Martin Broughton, not a footballing man and with no previous ties to the club, manage to do a far job of finding the right owners than the supposed guardians of the Liverpool Way?

We should thank Torres for the memories and wish him well for the future - if you know anyone going to the game on Sunday please ask them not to boo him - if they want to demonstrate, they should boo the five clowns mentioned above.

Great accuracy hitting that nail on the head.

[BCCC]

A good read but it doesn't change the price of fish. He broke the bond, he was already of a mind to leave regardless of the hollow words about commitment. In his craving for club silverware like a magpie he saw a shiny opportunity to pick up some honours this season. By making that choice he decided that shiny medals were worth more than the loyalty of our fans and turned his back.

I don't have a problem with him leaving, I don't even have a problem with him leaving for chelsea but he's shown a side of his character, a single minded side that has seen him pick up the baton of a typical modern footballer, money and medals driven. Again not a problem with that if you are honest enough to admit it and not try to portray yourself as some sort of loyal man of principles.

[steveeastend]

IMO this is the correct take on the situation.  I'll have to check a few points re the transfer expenditure next summer but it all makes sense.  But people don't want sense, they're out for blood.

Agreed!

[Machae]

Im reminded of Jamie Redknapps post match comments regarding Torres after one game, Liverpool fans were all up in arms... "how dare he speak about Torres's commitment to Liverpool FC!"... i guess the guy had a point and sometimes as fans, we too are blinded by loyalty. Just a week ago, posters both new and established were saying how Torres is staying and its just rumours, that we should all ignore the mindless speculation, media bullshit etc. But in the end, it just emphasised the lack of loyalty in the game, afterall if Gerrard and Carragher have contemplated leaving Liverpool, then why wouldnt Torres (who already proved this by leaving his boyhood club).

50 million for a striker who seems to have lost his hunger, motivation and values is good business for Liverpool Football Club. 

[Mr Boat]

A good read but it doesn't change the price of fish. He broke the bond, he was already of a mind to leave regardless of the hollow words about commitment. In his craving for club silverware like a magpie he saw a shiny opportunity to pick up some honours this season. By making that choice he decided that shiny medals were worth more than the loyalty of our fans and turned his back.

I don't have a problem with him leaving, I don't even have a problem with him leaving for chelsea but he's shown a side of his character, a single minded side that has seen him pick up the baton of a typical modern footballer, money and medals driven. Again not a problem with that if you are honest enough to admit it and not try to portray yourself as some sort of loyal man of principles.

Agree with all of this; Kenny has more idea of principles and loyalty in his little finger than Torres has in his whole body. I can now see they were poles apart and would not have got on.

[killer-heels]

Im reminded of Jamie Redknapps post match comments regarding Torres after one game, Liverpool fans were all up in arms... "how dare he speak about Torres's commitment to Liverpool FC!"... i guess the guy had a point and sometimes as fans, we too are blinded by loyalty. Just a week ago, posters both new and established were saying how Torres is staying and its just rumours, that we should all ignore the mindless speculation, media bullshit etc. But in the end, it just emphasised the lack of loyalty in the game, afterall if Gerrard and Carragher have contemplated leaving, then why wouldnt Torres?

50 million for a striker who seems to have lost his hunger, motivation and values is good business for Liverpool Football Club. 

I honestly still find the reaction to Torres' performances on here this season baffling. Yes, we should back our players through thick and thin. Yes, we should not single players out, give them abuse or boo them.

But loads of times fans were pinning all of his lack of effort on Hodgson's tactics. I don't see how a managers tactics can make a player stop trying. It was annoying that it was the view that was being expressed.

[GODS LEFT BOOT]

H&G/Cecil/Roy/Poulsen = no nando

[Machae]

I honestly still find the reaction to Torres' performances on here this season baffling. Yes, we should back our players through thick and thin. Yes, we should not single players out, give them abuse or boo them.

But loads of times fans were pinning all of his lack of effort on Hodgson's tactics. I don't see how a managers tactics can make a player stop trying. It was annoying that it was the view that was being expressed.

It was patently obvious that he was playing shit, lack of running or hounding defenders, abysmal finishing, selfish play, unable to link up with the other players. But it was easier to defend him rather than villify him, blame Konchesky, blame Poulson and even blame Hodgson but never Torres.

Its a shame but if Torres showed half as much loyalty as the fans showed him, we wouldnt be having this conversation now.

[rossipersempre]

But loads of times fans were pinning all of his lack of effort on Hodgson's tactics. I don't see how a managers tactics can make a player stop trying. It was annoying that it was the view that was being expressed.

Leaving aside Torres' distinct motivations, the owl-faced c*nt did a pretty good job of doing that to our entire team. Or have you forgotten the true horror of August-December 2010?

[killer-heels]

It was patently obvious that he was playing shit, lack of running or hounding defenders, abysmal finishing, selfish play, unable to link up with the other players. But it was easier to defend him rather than villify him, blame Konchesky, blame Poulson and even blame Hodgson but never Torres.

Its a shame but if Torres showed half as much loyalty as the fans showed him, we wouldnt be having this conversation now.

I had no issues about his finishing or inability to link with other players. But he didn't show effort in some of those other areas and that was clearly due to his lack of caring.

[Mutton Geoff]

reason for leaving MONEY reason for lying MONEY, anything else is flimflam!

[killer-heels]

Leaving aside Torres' distinct motivations, the owl-faced c*nt did a pretty good job of doing that to our entire team. Or have you forgotten the true horror of August-December 2010?

He was clearly poor and I for one was not criticising Torres for his general performance. Him not scoring, missing chances against Newcastle and not linking well with others was not something I would criticise him about.

But he wasn't putting in the effort elsewhere, in terms of battling and chasing the ball down. Its that which annoys me most about his departure.

[GODS LEFT BOOT]

He was clearly poor and I for one was not criticising Torres for his general performance. Him not scoring, missing chances against Newcastle and not linking well with others was not something I would criticise him about.

But he wasn't putting in the effort elsewhere, in terms of battling and chasing the ball down. Its that which annoys me most about his departure.

spot on mate

[rocco]

But he wasn't putting in the effort elsewhere, in terms of battling and chasing the ball down. Its that which annoys me most about his departure.

Spot on , and im  sure the stats will show this to be very very low. {his work/movement off the ball }

Wasn't the recent prostats ? or something similar shown to the players and it was shocking the work rate he was putting in for the rest of the team

[Mal]

I read the original article this morning sat on the bog. Appropriate I thought. I know that Sid Lowe enjoys a good reputation especially on Spanish football & his article is well written. Well written PR for FT that is.

I'm sure it's true & indeed accept the arguments proposed by FT for the need for investment in the summer of 2009. That's not controversial in the slightest. And whilst Lowe continually refers to the players that left & the detrimental effect that had on the team he does not mention even once the circumstances at the club & never mentions, by name, the cowboy owners who caused the shitstorm that engulfed our club. That is disgraceful.

Throw in his (Lowe's) refusal to concede that a player under contract should actually look arsed every fucking week; instead he chose not to even mention the disgraceful & demonstrable lack of effort. Then throw in the willingness with which FT broke the contract & took the first option available to jump ship rather than stay & fight for the cause we believe in, a cause FT pledged himself to as recently as 9th January this year & I hope you can agree that this article is revisionist bollocks of the first order. I'm not having it.

Finally, this is the second article this week (the first was by Dominic Fifield in the Guardian) that has unsubstantiated claims that Liverpool FC tried to insert an agreement that FT would not play this sunday. Such an agreement would be a breach of the Premier League rules - I have seen no published evidence that this is the case & I seriously hope that LFC's lawyers have looked into the possibility of sueing their fucking arses off.

It's time we stood up to these c*nts.

[Ski]

Can't say I'm surprised but still I take exception to the article in the London Evening Standard tonight. It claims that we have all turned on him and those going to the bridge on sun will be baying for blood. This is exactly why I think we should simply ignore him.

They make out that we have short memories and have forgotten how well he did for us and how loved he was. They cite Aldo and God's recent comments when they were only saying what we all felt and had heard Fernando himself told us only 3'wks ago.

They neglect to mention that he deliberately waited till MC had signed Dzeko and only 3 days before the window shut so that he could get the move he wanted. They say he hasn't had an opportunity to give his side of the story yet.  I don't know that anyone has stopped him from having his say except himself and his advisors.

The story goes on to say that he was depressed and upset that CP and the previous owners failed to live up to promises made in the summer to invest in top talent but no mention of how these issues are the fault of anyone at the club now!

It's so badly one sided to feed southerners yet more negativity about us as a club.

I emplore those of you going to keep a dignified silence where he is concerned and concentrate on supporting our lads only. They're dying for us to react so they can justify the rubbish the print.

I haven't said a bad word about him personally other than to express my disappointment with the way he behaved at the end of last week. I'll always hold him in high regard and respect him for everything he did for our club up until then. I can't bring myself to wish him good luck and just hope he displays a bit of dignity and humility in the near future when speaking about us.

[BCCC]

I'll be amazed if he didn't put in a 2007/8esq performance on Sunday and I honestly believe that if he doesn't get the medals this season he won't get them.

Maybe a phone call to Owen might have made him think a bit differently..

[LFC Forever]

I take issue with his claim that Liverpool first made it public by turning down Chelsea's offer. Ballague was all over sky and twatter after being briefed by Torres' people. This is the PR fight back instigated by those same people who put his transfer in the ether namely Spanish journo friends in the employ of Torres' agents of which Lowe is one and Ballague another. Spin, spin, spin. He is right about one thing though; Torres did lose the PR battle and for this reason......he was a disloyal treacherous rat, badly advised by leeches looking to maximise Torres' earning potential one last time. Liverpool did turn Chelsea down flat at 28 poxy million plus Sturridge. It's an unbalanced article full of contradiction. Don't be fooled by it.

My sentiments exactly. This article is an attempted P.R repair job.

[Mr Boat]

Finally, this is the second article this week (the first was by Dominic Fifield in the Guardian) that has unsubstantiated claims that Liverpool FC tried to insert an agreement that FT would not play this sunday. Such an agreement would be a breach of the Premier League rules - I have seen no published evidence that this is the case & I seriously hope that LFC's lawyers have looked into the possibility of sueing their fucking arses off.

It's time we stood up to these c*nts.

Yes...How fucking stupid we'd look if this was true; opens up all kinds of gentlements' agreements clubs could make between each other. Imagine it; 'we'll sell you Charlie Adam if you promise he'll never try his hardest against us'....no chance this happened.

[killer-heels]

At the end though, Torres means not much to me. He (and Mascherano) helped us to win a grand total of fuck all and as such, I hold the likes of Traore and Smicer in higher regard.

That said, winning trophies is not the be all and end all in terms of affection to a player. But Torres showed his true colours in this season and as such, any affection has gone.

[Redallover11]

Posted this in another thread but thought it was more appropriate here:

Some people are still asking why Chelsea, why now? Its quite straightforward and explains Torres's slightly odd statemnt when he was encouraging the club to negotiate with Chelsea and make the right decision for BOTH the player and the club.

First of all you have to accept the fact that, in professional footballing terms, Torres HAD to move on. A striker relying heavily on pace, he has 24 months left at peak condition and it would almost certainly take longer to turn round the club after the disaster of H&G&P. Torres came back from the World Cup with a winners medal to add to his European championship medal. The rest of his teammates feted as the best in the world all playing for top clubs and in the top competitions, two of them soon to be nominated for the balon d'or alongside Messi.

For Torres to have any hope of playing in that team there is simply no way he could afford to be out of the Champions League next season, regressing as astriker under Hodgson, involved in a relegatiuon fight then have a new manager come in who (according to all rules of football logic) would require a transition period before getting back to the top flight.


A contract is a two way thing and this is not the club that Torres had signed up to when he left his boyhood club. He only signed for us because we promised him the opportunities to compete for top honours and we failed, as a club, on our side of the bargain. Surely nobody thinks he would have left had we been challenging for the title and in Europe?

And its easy to say 'give the club a chance'. He did. Again and again - and promises were broken to him by our club. Its easy to gamble with other people's careers but he put his career on the line when, for example, Llorente was breathing down his neck for his starting spot. Remember he stuck with us and gave Hodgson a chance long after most of the people on this forum had given up on him.

So once he had decided to go the question was to which club and when?

Under the FIFA financial fair play rules, this is the last eligible window for club expenses to be registered for the 2010/2011 season. Starting from summer, transfer dealings are part of the 2011/2012 season.

From 2011/2012 clubs will be barred from Champions League and European competition if they are spending 35 million more than they bring in. Chelsea have already announced a 70million pound loss in the last year. Since they are unlikely to turn this around very quickly, if they went on a Summer spending splurge there is a good chance they will be banned from European competition.

Solution?

If you have big name stars you want to sign, do it now before they go 'on the books' for 2011/2012. Hence they had to sign Torres and Luiz during this window. This also explains why Torres had to go to Chelsea - the only other club who might have spent big money on a striker was City who have just completed their lineup by signing Dzeko.

The other consideration is that Chelsea desperately need to get at least fourth place because they will get 35 million pounds of income during next season by qualifying for Champions league and, crucially, this extra income gives them an extra 35 million of leeway on what they can spend.

Hence for both these reasons it makes perfect sense to pay over the odds now rather than wait till summer when Torres would be much less valuable.

This also applies to us. 50 million pounds is great in your pocket but isnt going to score you many goals. We know we need 4-5 players but theres no way we could spend that much in Summer without disqualifying ourselves from European competition either.

It is therefore better to pay over the odds NOW for a big name striker - every pound spent in January means another pound freed up to spend in summer. And what are the rules for buying players according to Sabermetrics/Moneyball? You decrease the impact of the premium we are forced to pay by:

1. Buying a young player
2. Proving he is able to perform in the Premiership
3. Has personal problems / mental attitude that is cheap to fix if addressed in the right way

And hence you see we are in for Andy Carroll, Luis Suarez, Charlie Adams and Micah Richards.
AC will only get better now that he has moved to a better, more scientific club with a higher standard of player. the 'extra' 10 million we are paying for him is actually negligible over the years of his contract, rise in his value, likely international status (not many other strikers like him in England hence marketability and image rights) effects of inflation, being able to effectively spend more this summer and his improvement to our team in general. Remember if by some miracle he manages to get us into 4th spot he will have paid off his entire transfer fee for the rest of his stay here. He will have have been effectively a free transfer.

A lot of fans were saying 'I cant believe we have spent that much on Carroll who is unproven' - you can now see why its a risk but a very clever and calculated one that is almost certain to pay off. Even finishing two places higher should bring in an extra few million pounds and offset the extra cost.

But then I guess a lot of fans would have said the same thing if we had signed Shearer for a million pounds from Southhampton at the end of his first season (after which he hadnt scored any goals).

The upshot is we COULDNT have had Suarez/Carroll/Torres all playing together. The deal was reached at exactly the right time for both Torres and LFC.


NESV are smart cookies, no? It was the right decision all round - if Torres had left when we were offering what we had promised him I would agree with all the stick hes getting. But we broke our promises so I dont. this is NOT down to the player - its the inevitable consequence of Hicks, Gillette and Purslow.

And by the way, can i also ask, why have Moores and Parry managed to escape any of the blame for selling to those idiots in the first place when a cursory examination of their ownership would have revealed what a disaster they were going to be? How did Martin Broughton, not a footballing man and with no previous ties to the club, manage to do a far job of finding the right owners than the supposed guardians of the Liverpool Way?

We should thank Torres for the memories and wish him well for the future - if you know anyone going to the game on Sunday please ask them not to boo him - if they want to demonstrate, they should boo the five clowns mentioned above.

I really like all of this. My own really simplified version was from Torres Perspective. I don't want to wait until I only have at most two or three shots of Champions League honours and Title winning aspirations. I would much rather go to Chelsea right now and possibly pick up a champions league medal, than wait until summer and then have to bed in etc etc. These 3-4 months are crucial if He wants to challenge for his National team place and a Chelsea Spot.

The money ball stuff is extremely interesting and makes perfect sense.

My one problem is that may all be true and then I could say good luck, we let you down too with our promises, but we NEVER STOPPED supporting you while you most certainly STOPPED PLAYING for us quite a while ago and for that you can piss off.

[Mr Boat]

If it's really all about winning a CL winners medal surely he would have thought long and hard about which team could get him this and I'm not sure Chelsea would be top of that list; may as well of gone to Arsenal...that wouldn't have pissed me off quite as much, although Wenger would never have come up with the cash.

[Fine Shagger, Danny Agger]

For all those who think this is PR, you obviously haven't been reading Sid Lowe's work ... ever. He's one of the most balanced, most knowledgeable writers there is on the Spanish league and its players. And it's funny how we are averse to 'PR' when it's for Liverpool, but not when it tries to go against the mainsteam thought of Liverpool fans.

[Mal]

Yes...How fucking stupid we'd look if this was true; opens up all kinds of gentlements' agreements clubs could make between each other. Imagine it; 'we'll sell you Charlie Adam if you promise he'll never try his hardest against us'....no chance this happened.

They made the allegations; they have to be able to stand it up. To date there have been no quotes so it's open to question how factual the allegations are. I agree it's unlikely that we will chase it through but I'd love it if we did. It pisses me off that these twats can make these allegations without having to show proof.

[Fine Shagger, Danny Agger]

So, now that more information has resurfaced, have we reassessed why we're so angry at Torres now?
- It turns out his transfer wasn't so short-notice, since he's constantly pestered the club for investment and has obviously been growing disillusioned. And we were in the middle of the transfer window when he decided to leave.
- Our hand was no longer forced to buy Andy Carroll at an outrageous price because it turns out, Torres' price was determined by Carroll's price + 15m.

Maybe I just have a very somber view of the issue, but the sad truth is, some players will choose loyalty over ambition, and some won't. It's not something you can take against individuals. Especially after years of service in the club. Would I have preferred that he was loyal and patient and stayed? Hell, yeah. But can I blame him? I don't know.

We're not in contention for major titles, not this season, not last season.

And I guess it's also hurtful that he left when we were on the up, when there was so much hope in the club. But 'on the up' could also mean rebuilding, and that could still take a year, two years, I don't know. For someone who felt that he's had too many injuries and he's hitting his prime years fast, maybe the rebuilding process will have been too long to wait for.

[Machae]

I had no issues about his finishing or inability to link with other players. But he didn't show effort in some of those other areas and that was clearly due to his lack of caring.

You can forgive him for missing or linking up with the rest of the team when he's putting in a decent shift, but when he lacks the effort and motivation during a game then goes on to play a shocker in front of goal you can hardly defend the guy.

He, needs to take his fair share of the blame for the failures at Liverpool FC.

[kkhaku]

I still haven't figured out why he continuously and publicly pledged his loyalty to us, especially 3 weeks before he handed in a transfer request.

[helmboy_nige]

I still haven't figured out why he continuously and publicly pledged his loyalty to us, especially 3 weeks before he handed in a transfer request.

All a part of the PR game.

[Bosshog]

I dunno wat to think really??

Sid Lowe knows his stuff as said before, and im in no way in Torres camp, but maybe its not as clear cut as we like to believe.

I was sceptical myself when we were haggling for suarez one day and the next we stump up £22.7m!
and if we are all honest.....Carroll was a panic buy which smelt of "lets get someone in and maybe soften the blow"
Dont get me wrong.....im made up that both Carroll and suarez are here but £57m came in and £58m went out......where was there own big signing?? if Torres had stayed, would we have got suarez?

I dont wanna bash NESV or FSG but after our last owners im cautious until i see some real investment.
They have been brilliant in their actions and words so far.
BUT maybe Torres new what was coming?
Maybe he knows Pepe is next to go and doesnt wanna see another top player leave.
we are quick to jump on Torres and believe me i fuckin hate the fucker for this but he must have known there was no other way.....he is saying they never tried convincing him with future plans......maybe they didnt because there was none!.....we cant be naive to think this.
Masch more or less said that torres said as much to him when they spoke.


All im saying is we can all hate Torres (and rightly so) but we cant brush aside what his excuses are because we dont like what he's saying.

Fuel for thought guys:

The transfer window shuts and we laid out £58m (took in £57m) and a few days after it closes Henry makes an announcement on revamping anfield.......where's the money coming from to do this??? is this letting us know early that funds in summer wont be as much as we think because Anfield is getting a makeover??? great PR stuff in my opinion.

but we'l see who's right!