Topic: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe

[BobbyDavro]

I don't think we should underestimate the impact of Atletico winning the UEFA Cup last year either.
He left them to go win things, and similar to Owen at Real Madrid, the club he left goes on to european glory, while he realises he joined a sinking ship.

I've got no problem with him leaving at all.
We got £50m, a couple of younger strikers and the chance to start again.
We weren't shafted and should move on.

[walshys_mullet]

By all accounts he's a quiet guy who keeps himself to himself.
He left his boyhood team to win things.  He thought he had landed on his feet with us, a team with a chance of winning things, and the idolation, fanaticism, and similar values to his boyhood club.  A perfect combination.  I dont think he was conning us one bit.

H&G, and Purslow ruined that.

I dont really have a big problem with him wanting out.  I can understand it, as thats the whole point he joined us in the first place.

It explains his performances too.  Nothing going right for him etc etc.  Dont mistake this for approval of his performances, which were a combination of things, but no doubt now that it affected him.  The perfect storm I suppose, injury, lack of fitness, disappointment.

I just feel, and hope i suppose, that in 5 years time he looks back (regardless of where we are and where Chelsea are), and he thinks fck... what did I leave behind.  A few shiney pieces of silver, was it worth it for what he gave up with Atletic and Liverpool.

But make no mistake, I think after this season he'll be looking back up at us again (as Sid puts it in his article). 
We are on the rise with or without him, and it could well be without him was for the best. 

Yeah but complaining that we were out of the CL last year, and the title is down to players like him. I remember him having a stinker against Fiorentina away. Whose fault is it we went out? He is partly to blame too.

We could have done so much better last season but there were certain players just not willing to dig in and try and change the scenario. then they all whinge that they arnt competing for the top honours.

Pees me off no end.

[Cpt_Reina]

The painting of Torres as some sort of victim will get little time from me.

Doesnt matter how ambitious he is, or the fact that the club had gone backwards in his time here, whats a fact is that he gave us 1 and a half seasons of trying to turn it round. Before that we had been reaching European cup semi finals and finishing 2nd in the league. 1 abject season, half a season of true transition. And he couldnt justify any more? Thats not the man who promised he loved the club and the fans. If he did he would have given us more time, he wouldve cared more.

The truth about Fernando Torres is that he's selfish, he looks out for no1. But we were led to believe he cared for the club more. It seems that was only true when things were going well. Torres was in playing terms what fair weather fans are in terms of support.

I look forward to his, and Chelsea's decline.

[SwedenRed]

Are we now a stepping stone or a feeder club for players to progress further on in their careers?! fuckin sad the state we are in. Decent players want to leave to better teams (not better clubs I might add), to win silverware. We need lady luck in the form of Kenny to build us a team to compete for trophies again and get us out of this rutt. Fuck Torres, masch and the other clowns... There will be more no doubt. Fine they want to get trophies. But me as a fan respect more the players who stay and show commitment to the Club.

[Ziggy09]

By all accounts he's a quiet guy who keeps himself to himself.
He left his boyhood team to win things.  He thought he had landed on his feet with us, a team with a chance of winning things, and the idolation, fanaticism, and similar values to his boyhood club.  A perfect combination.  I dont think he was conning us one bit.

H&G, and Purslow ruined that.

I dont really have a big problem with him wanting out.  I can understand it, as thats the whole point he joined us in the first place.

It explains his performances too.  Nothing going right for him etc etc.  Dont mistake this for approval of his performances, which were a combination of things, but no doubt now that it affected him.  The perfect storm I suppose, injury, lack of fitness, disappointment.

I just feel, and hope i suppose, that in 5 years time he looks back (regardless of where we are and where Chelsea are), and he thinks fck... what did I leave behind.  A few shiney pieces of silver, was it worth it for what he gave up with Atletic and Liverpool.

But make no mistake, I think after this season he'll be looking back up at us again (as Sid puts it in his article). 
We are on the rise with or without him, and it could well be without him was for the best.

Love this! After all the sadness/disappointment/anger wears off, I think what you have written is probably very close to the reality of whats happened.
I agree that before the last year, he wasnt conning us about how much he loved us etc.

I also understand about wanting out as its obvious it will take time before we can seriously challenge for the major trophies on a consistent basis and hopefully win them.

However, whatever the reasons, nothing excuses him for leaving us for Chelsea. He may have been depressed, hurt, badly advised but surely he would have still felt that deep down moving to another English club was not the right way to leave. Just like he left Atletico to move abroad, if he was that deperate to go and win throphies this year, he should have gone abroad.

[Red number seven]

Great article. More than anything our owners and Kenny come out of that analysis as extremely clever operators.

Torres wants understanding and he gets it from me, fair enough, but not love. But he just becomes a player who once was very good for us rather than the unequivocal LFC legend he could've been. He now plays for a despised plastic rival. Chelsea won't show him videos of their history or their fans because they are an embarrassment.

Personally Torres left because, I think, he quite simply realises his footballing mortality and recognises that, at 27, with recurrent soft tissue injuries and partially reliant on searing pace, he my only have this season and another, say, 3 at his peak. Unless the miraculous happens and we gain about 10-12 points on very good sides, we aren't going to be in next year's champion's league. Even if things work out weel for LFC the best he could've hoped for was two stabs at that particular trophy whilst he was at his best..

With Chelsea he gets 4 including one where he starts in the last 16. I can understand it, even forgive it, but I don't care about a player who doesn't look at himself first when he looks at the reasons for failure.

For me there are two sorts of great players. The type who say "I am a great player so my club deserves to have me win things for them" and those who say "I am a great player so I deserve to play for a club that wins things for me."

I had hoped Torres fell into the former category, but was wrong. I hope Carroll and Suarez do.

[Slick_Beef]

Sid Lowe's personnal view of the saga from his Twitter
"As I say, I think mistakes were made, a bit impatient, and much of it badly handled. But fear, annoyance, desperation, sadness all genuine"

And just to add to that - he also said on the guardian the other day that, in his personal opinion, Torres was making a mistake and thinking too much about the short term (i.e. He'll be playing in the CL this season but that Chelsea squad appears to be on its last legs and needs a big overhaul). It's a good artlce from a good journalist. Despite what some people have said there is a defence for Nando, but I'm still absolutely convinced that he will regret this move for a long time. Think of it this way - It looks reasonably likely that Michael Owen will have a Premier League winners medal this year, the same medal that Gerrard and Carra would love, and yet I believe that in years to come, Gerrard and Carra will look back on their careers with more satisfaction than Owen. To become a legend at club as famous as Liverpool is a bigger achievement than moving from club to club like a mercenary until you strike it lucky with a medal.

[Timbo's Goals]

  I dont think he was conning us one bit.

It is a difficult area if depression is involved. However, it's hard to counter any charge of conning when instead of giving his utmost for the club, the fans and his teammates a player - a key player at that - sulks and mopes around for 30 odd games whilst drawing a salary of £120,000-00 a week simply because he feels he's a victim.

[GIPPO77]

Nothing new....

[silver 5 star]

Torres who?

Move on.

[theblackhumor]

the article does shed light on a lot of things that the media does not pick up.

[rbagg10]

I feel for him...really do

as much as we all are, look back to our current employers , the ones who pay our salary, our day jobs........and put him and his employers...

but one thing I can't feel for...is all he has to do is 4 more months, 4 more bloody months till end of May .

Liverpool will likely miss out a champions league spot, and may have won the europa league...and he can make that happen

then he can say i want to play in champions league, gets the chelsea, mancity , barca , bayern ,inter, milan all chasing after him...and the fans will let him go...gracefully, cheer him on and await his return to watch the game with alonso to anfield..

just 4 more months....which how much I hate my boss at my workplace, I can wait for 4more months..

Pity it has to end this way...sidlowe tried his best to explain to us, but as King Kenny said, the timing....was just wrong...

[StormyDog]

All that Torres did, like many fans have done in the last two years, is give up on LFC.
As fans those who did it gave up on the club due to the way Hicks and Gilett destroyed the club, (though many fought them tooth n nail I know).
Torres simply was persuaded to stay till new owners came in. Having seen the transformation of Man City he expected NESV to buy 3-4 £20M+ players in 2011 and challenge for the title and CL next year.
In 90% probability we will not be in the CL next year, so that would make him 29 at least before he player there again for us. 
I have no-disrespect left for him as i waste no emotion on him at all. We move forward and continue to support the team over the next few years as they re-build the squad to a level that we were at in 2009 and beyond.
It is frightening how much can be destroyed in 4 transfer windows.

We went from 1/2 of our squad starting for Spain (best ranked national side in europe) to having just 1 player in their squad (reserve goalkeeper) in 18 months.

[main-stand-molby]

It is a difficult area if depression is involved. However, it's hard to counter any charge of conning when instead of giving his utmost for the club, the fans and his teammates a player - a key player at that - sulks and mopes around for 30 odd games whilst drawing a salary of £120,000-00 a week simply because he feels he's a victim.

I meant he wasnt conning us that he felt something special with us.

I'm not saying he was depressed, I wouldnt know.  Just that it was a combination of injury, lack of fitness, and his disappointment of how things were going, that affected his performances, and his decision.

Thats not an excuse for it, the improvement against Chelsea was noticeable, so although the team played better, youre right about the moping about.  I suppose under Kenny he had improved on that front.

I can understand how its all come about thats all.  I think he will regret it, and regret it because of the first line up there "...he felt something special with us.".

[driftinwest]

Yeah, I think the Dzeko thing is a red herring.  However I do think that Lowe is right in that Chelsea did leave the bid until late in the window to increase the chances that they would have a "free run" at signing him without some other team getting involved.  Which also suggests that they were given the nod that Torres would be interested by someone in the Torres camp. 

That was my thinking to, but looking back on the way Torres performed for us this season I think he was always looking to be away in the January window at best otherwise continue going through the motions till the summer. He certainly wasn't putting in 100% for the team (possibly to protect himself from injury) and it showed so considering a realistic bid had to be taken by the club, but coming in so late in the transfer window makes me think Chelsea were hoping to avoid a bidding war as well as getting the nod to make a bid from someone in the Torres camp..

[Wallingtonian]

What Torres and his advisors have failed to count is how much more marketable LFC is than Chelsea across the globe. His brand will be affected by having fewer club fans.

Bigger club my hole.

Is correct.  Last year the Torres replica Liverpool shirt was the biggest selling in the world.  One thing I can confidently predict is that his Chelsea top has zero chance of being the biggest selling this year.

I've lived for many years in an area in which Chelsea have the biggest support of London Premier League clubs but which is dominated by support for Crystal Palace.  I can assure you that Chelsea can only dream of having a fanbase like Palace, never mind Liverpool.

He's joined a much, much smaller club than Liverpool except that they have a very rich owner

[Sangria]

Yeah but complaining that we were out of the CL last year, and the title is down to players like him. I remember him having a stinker against Fiorentina away. Whose fault is it we went out? He is partly to blame too.

We could have done so much better last season but there were certain players just not willing to dig in and try and change the scenario. then they all whinge that they arnt competing for the top honours.

Pees me off no end.

I don't begrudge Mascherano his comments, but I wouldn't like it if Torres carried on, for that reason. Mascherano, within parameters of human weakness, almost always gave his all for the club while he was at the club. So I don't mind if he has negative comments about the club, even if it makes him look a fool. Like Whelan and Houghton, others who have also blotted their books, Mascherano's earned his right to comment about the club, and not have the memory of his performances for the club stained by what's happened after. Torres hasn't earned that right, given his lack of application in his last 18 months at the club.

[boots]

Fernando who?

[exiledinyorkshire]

Petty maybe.

But am i the only one who saw him in  the chelsea press conference and thought, awer, what a bizarr looking man you actually are mr Torres.

I realise thats exactly what you eventually convince yourself when your bird leaves you, but really he is very odd looking, i think its the dark hair.

[Mighty_Red]

Good article. Even though it is clear written from the players perspective, it still cannot deny that this was a complete betreyal.

Put it simply, Chelsea and Torres must have been talking for weeks (or months), their tactic was to bid late to try and force our hand and avoid an auction. They cannot blame the club for responding with shithouse tactics with hardball tactics of their own. This is exactly how I would want the club to respond in a situation like this - Reject the offer and tell the player he cannot go anywhere.

Let them come back with a bigger offer, and leave him to decide how much he wants to go. We should never have to deal with a rival, and when we are forced to, we should ensure that we maximise the fee. Compare this how we lost Masch in the summer, for at least £5m less than we needed too.

[mrsphilthefish]

Can I just say, I really hope that if he scores on Sunday he goes crazy, runs right up to the travelling Kop fists pumping, eyes bulging, and kisses the Chelsea badge.

That would make it easier for lots of people to move on. Just as he has. Don't be late about it.

good god no.......I don't want any of them rentboys scoring!

[majestic_11]

Brilliant article. Gives a fairly detailed picture of Torres' state of mind. While it appears to be Torres slanted, it still fairly clearly paints him as selfish, irrational and short sighted in this instance. Implying that FSG didn't mind Torres leaving seems wrong. But at the end of the day, the club came out of a situation where we've lost our best player remarkably well, and that's down to the owners handling of it. They defended the club's interests, which is their job. Their job is not to protect a player's reputation while he leaves the club. The last line is heartbreaking as well. We may not have turned out to be the club he expected, but he didn't turn out to be the person we thought either.

Brilliant!

[Red number seven]

Yeah, I think the Dzeko thing is a red herring.  However I do think that Lowe is right in that Chelsea did leave the bid until late in the window to increase the chances that they would have a "free run" at signing him without some other team getting involved.  Which also suggests that they were given the nod that Torres would be interested by someone in the Torres camp. 

Perhaps. Torres might have been more inclined to move abroad to a historied champion's league club than a plastio nouveau riche nothing club who happe to be in the champion's league.

[Sangria]

Good article. Even though it is clear written from the players perspective, it still cannot deny that this was a complete betreyal.

Put it simply, Chelsea and Torres must have been talking for weeks (or months), their tactic was to bid late to try and force our hand and avoid an auction. They cannot blame the club for responding with shithouse tactics with hardball tactics of their own. This is exactly how I would want the club to respond in a situation like this - Reject the offer and tell the player he cannot go anywhere.

Let them come back with a bigger offer, and leave him to decide how much he wants to go. We should never have to deal with a rival, and when we are forced to, we should ensure that we maximise the fee. Compare this how we lost Masch in the summer, for at least £5m less than we needed too.

The betrayal began when he stopped giving a shit. The belated transfer request was just the final step, and a relatively insignificant one at that, compared with what went on before.

[tea_tree]

Good article

[AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful]

A good read.

[Timbo's Goals]

I meant he wasnt conning us that he felt something special with us.

Apologies. Misinterpreted it. With Sid Lowe composing such a lengthy and insightful article yet somwhow failing to highlight the performance poverty of his past 12 months the notion of how he has conned us ON THE PITCH is kind of embedded in my brain.

[Raul!]

For me there are two sorts of great players. The type who say "I am a great player so my club deserves to have me win things for them" and those who say "I am a great player so I deserve to play for a club that wins things for me."

As LFC fans, we are conditioned to love the former and forget the latter.  That is what is going to happen with Torres.

As for short sightedness, that is a point Sid Lowe pressed much more in his bit of the Guardian Football Weekly podcast than in this article.  He repeated that Torres was focused on the very short term.  Go ahead, do that but don't expect understanding and people to have fond memories for you.  If you choose to be happy with that, fair enough, you aren't a human being I have respect for.

[Kite]

Aside from the way he went about the transfer and the things he said.  None of us can expect to be challenging for the title this year, next year, at best we'd hope we'd be in a position to have a go in the season after.  Even that with the current team and resources United, City and Chelsea have its going to be a massive achievement to even be ready then.

I blame H&G for sending our club back 5 years or more in terms of progress more so than I blame Torres for wanting to go.  The way Torres went about it I blame only him.

[drpepe]

Petty maybe.

But am i the only one who saw him in  the chelsea press conference and thought, awer, what a bizarr looking man you actually are mr Torres.

I realise thats exactly what you eventually convince yourself when your bird leaves you, but really he is very odd looking, i think its the dark hair.

 

can play a bit mind

Aside from the way he went about the transfer and the things he said.  None of us can expect to be challenging for the title this year, next year, at best we'd hope we'd be in a position to have a go in the season after.  Even that with the current team and resources United, City and Chelsea have its going to be a massive achievement to even be ready then.

I blame H&G for sending our club back 5 years or more in terms of progress more so than I blame Torres for wanting to go.  The way Torres went about it I blame only him.

yep

[Timbo's Goals]

The betrayal began when he stopped giving a shit. The belated transfer request was just the final step, and a relatively insignificant one at that, compared with what went on before.

Exactly. Good succinct way of putting it.

[mulfella]

By all accounts he's a quiet guy who keeps himself to himself.
He left his boyhood team to win things.  He thought he had landed on his feet with us, a team with a chance of winning things, and the idolation, fanaticism, and similar values to his boyhood club.  A perfect combination.  I dont think he was conning us one bit.

H&G, and Purslow ruined that.

I dont really have a big problem with him wanting out.  I can understand it, as thats the whole point he joined us in the first place.

It explains his performances too.  Nothing going right for him etc etc.  Dont mistake this for approval of his performances, which were a combination of things, but no doubt now that it affected him.  The perfect storm I suppose, injury, lack of fitness, disappointment.

I just feel, and hope i suppose, that in 5 years time he looks back (regardless of where we are and where Chelsea are), and he thinks fck... what did I leave behind.  A few shiney pieces of silver, was it worth it for what he gave up with Atletic and Liverpool.

But make no mistake, I think after this season he'll be looking back up at us again (as Sid puts it in his article). 
We are on the rise with or without him, and it could well be without him was for the best. 

Thats about where i am on the whole thing.

[Stussy]

Just one thing about El Rentboy that Sid Lowe doesn't touch on, and that is the pitiful performances that Torres put in stinking out the pitch and the vibe in our dressing room for so long.

What Torres did was a reverse version of 'constructive dismissal', when someone is removed from a job not by a straightforward, eye-to-eye sacking, but by making their conditions of work so onerous that they are effectively forced out by resignation. Its the sly version of sacking someone.

Torres made his circumstances onerous through the slack performances he gave repeatedly over a period of time, and the mardy arse sulking that would have intensified effectively meant that not selling him would lead to even more onerous circumstances on the club than keeping him on. So yes, of course the club then set in motion the mechanics of selling him, because El Rentboy contsructively dismissed himself.

Would have been nice if Lowe had touched on this - as well as apologists in the PR campaign being waged now could be repudiated with these facts too.

I understand why Lowe might not have touched on it, because then his sources might get upset. But if we are going to lay cards on the table, lets lay ALL of them on the table.

[Cusamano]

A well written price that teaches us nothing we didnt already know

[west_london_red]

Yeah but complaining that we were out of the CL last year, and the title is down to players like him. I remember him having a stinker against Fiorentina away. Whose fault is it we went out? He is partly to blame too.

We could have done so much better last season but there were certain players just not willing to dig in and try and change the scenario. then they all whinge that they arnt competing for the top honours.

Pees me off no end.

100% correct.

His attitude was off last season. If instead of throwing his toys out of the pram constantly he actually focused his frustrations into something positive we might have finished in the top 4 last season?

[Timbo's Goals]

I don't begrudge Mascherano his comments, but I wouldn't like it if Torres carried on, for that reason. Mascherano, within parameters of human weakness, almost always gave his all for the club while he was at the club. So I don't mind if he has negative comments about the club, even if it makes him look a fool. Like Whelan and Houghton, others who have also blotted their books, Mascherano's earned his right to comment about the club, and not have the memory of his performances for the club stained by what's happened after. Torres hasn't earned that right, given his lack of application in his last 18 months at the club.

Again good shout. mascherano is talking bollocks but in his final games with us particularly that opening game of this season against Arsenal he was head and shoulders above every other player in a red shirt. he gave everything he had. The contrast with Torres this past year or so could not be more stark. And it's that which really sticks in the craw now that we truly know he had stopped giving a shit as you term it..

[Upanishad]

I still love the guy*, as a few on here have pointed out it is a bit like splitting up with your bird and being gutted about it. I still think he has feelings for us, when I woke up this morning I realised I still have feelings for him.

True love has no room for bitterness, nor resentment. He has gone now, let him go. Thanks for the good times Fernando.

*no I'm not gay, yes I realise I am being soft and I do plan to 'man up', after lunch.

[Stussy]

Oh yeah, and those pitiful, mardy arse performances, which have ultimately contributed to the position we actually found ourself in, were defended by most Reds, because we gave him the benefit of the doubt, because we supported him innately.

If there's a PR campaign going on, I hope these issues get played out in full, you know, the truth.

El Rentboy, endear yourselves to your new family - kiss the badge in front of us when you score against us, sing along with their 'Scousers' songs. Play your heart out, lad, play your heart out.

[Stussy]

By the way, I like Lowe, he's one of the best writers out there. None of what I said in my last two posts is a criticism of him.

There has been alot of shooting the messenger the last week, because too many of us were in denial about it.

[west_london_red]

Going slightly OT, but Mascherano's comments in the Metro today pissed me off. should keep his mouth shut and conctrate more on getting off the bench and on the pitch