Author Topic: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe  (Read 338162 times)

Offline eirwen

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #480 on: February 4, 2011, 08:15:55 pm »
I still haven't figured out why he continuously and publicly pledged his loyalty to us, especially 3 weeks before he handed in a transfer request.
That people interview was never verified afaik.

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #481 on: February 4, 2011, 08:19:25 pm »
H&G/Cecil/Roy/Poulsen/Torres being a c*nt = no nando

Offline Dubred

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #482 on: February 4, 2011, 08:25:29 pm »
Fuck Torres. He's a rent boy now and deserves nothing but contempt for his lies.

It strikes me that the management team of el ninny are concerned about the fact that he will sell less shirts now that he has left Liverpool, and that there will be a MASSIVE impact on his marketing value.

well this for me is what it comes down to.

Torres was the golden boy, the kid, the face that sold a million shirts etc etc.

There's no doubt his rep has been tarnished during this whole affair.

Apart from how much the club he plays for must make off his image, he and those who surround him must make huge amounts of money off him.

A weak attempt to turn the tables, restore damaged image and many will fall for it and the Torres marketing machine will no doubt churn once more.

Some of us obviously are more wise than this.

Personally I'm delighted he's gone.....true colours etc etc.

Couldn't give flying .. how much he makes for himself or Chelsea now.

My time is taken up with my team

Offline smitalfc

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #483 on: February 4, 2011, 08:25:45 pm »
I still haven't figured out why he continuously and publicly pledged his loyalty to us, especially 3 weeks before he handed in a transfer request.


The quotes from 3 weeks ago are according to Paul Rogers of.tv probably fake - the People made them up.

Torres hadn't given any interviews for months before that. The last time I think he definitely "publicly pledged his loyalty" was at the start of last season (see the now locked Bounce in a minute thread). It now seems he was staying on sufference even then, after being asked to help protect the clubs resale value. I don't think he said anything to mislead us after that. He said a lot of stuff before then, but at the time he believed it himself, I think.

I know no-one will agree with me, but to me he looked pretty sad and sincere in his press conference today. He explained his reasons honestly although there's clearly more to the story than we yet know (he said something about explaining more in a few weeks or months). I got the feeling. He really did love the city and the fans, but that wasn't enough to compensate for his increasing disillusionment at the way the club was heading and then the lengthy rebuilding job to follow.

I don't think he's a liar or a fraud or only interested in "brant Torres". All in all pretty consistent with the article in the OP.

Offline miakeks

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #484 on: February 4, 2011, 08:26:25 pm »
I hope come Monday we'll be done talking about him and this.

Let's move on.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #485 on: February 4, 2011, 08:30:20 pm »
With regards FSG I don't see them dipping into their own pockets for transfers much. Their aim is to set us on sound financial footing, expanding the 'brand' commercially and then allowing the club to sow back any profits at the end of the year into transfers etc. Which frankly is a massive improvement. They do not intend to be like Abramovich or Mansour even if they had the pockets to be so. Sound financial management, staying within our means is their stated goal. Those expecting some massive spending spree in the summer are mistaken in my view.

Suarez & Carroll were buys forced on them. As pointed out we were haggling for Suarez for some time then 1 day before the Torres bombshell which they would have known about they upped the bid. Same applies to Carroll. All purchased with money coming in pretty much. FSG are all about the long term and as Henry said he would never have bought Liverpool if it were not for the Fifa fair Play Rules. They do not intend to compete with the sugar daddy teams in the transfer market. You can see them consistently bring in 2-3 players every summer depending on need entirely financed by money the club itself generates completely in line with the new rules.

January is never the best time to buy players particularly if you are looking for value. They paid £35m for Carroll and £23m for Suarez to fill a hole, the only time I suspect they would ever consider paying so much for a player.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #486 on: February 4, 2011, 08:37:59 pm »
Torres left for trophies. He could have waited until the summer...               



...to go on a safari.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #487 on: February 4, 2011, 08:38:54 pm »
"Kenny has more idea of principles and loyalty in his little finger "

Just to point out when the King left Celtic for us the manager and fans begged him to stay but he insisted on leaving in order to win medals. On his first visit back the rest of the team amusingly let him run out on the pitch as they stayed behind in the tunnel and he got a proper shellacking off the crowd.

This is a professional sport and both parties did well out of the deal. Time to thank Torres for what he gave us, move on and beat those ****ers to 4th spot!!!
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Offline Stevie07

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #488 on: February 4, 2011, 08:44:36 pm »
It's a good article by Sid Lowe. The only points I would question is the bit about Liverpool not making enough effort in trying to convince Torres to stay and Torres believing Suarez was being brought in as a replacement.

There is no chance Dalglish did not make it clear to Torres his importance to the club and the negotiations for Suarez had been going on for a fair while, there was no way Liverpool were waiting for Chelsea's money to sign him.

Offline Leighc1979

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #489 on: February 4, 2011, 08:53:09 pm »
I've read the article, but all it seems to me is Lowe is being used by Torres' PR machine to repair some of the damage. I watched the press conference in full today and it was shambolic. Nobody pushed Torres on a couple of statements that made for a lot head scratching. "I can't remember the exact day, but it was 10 or 12 days before the window when I decided to leave".  What should have been asked is why the late transfer request then? You have to be careful. We bought the spin when he wrote EL Nino, just be careful of the spin now he's at Chelsea. Fair play to Nando, though. Hope his PR team are getting a large chunk of his wages. Hearing Winter and co gushing about him afterwards played right into their hands. Ambiguity mixed with innocence clearly equals off the hook.

Offline farawayred

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #490 on: February 4, 2011, 08:56:20 pm »
I've read the article, but all it seems to me is Lowe is being used by Torres' PR machine to repair some of the damage. I watched the press conference in full today and it was shambolic. Nobody pushed Torres on a couple of statements that made for a lot head scratching. "I can't remember the exact day, but it was 10 or 12 days before the window when I decided to leave".  What should have been asked is why the late transfer request then? You have to be careful. We bought the spin when he wrote EL Nino, just be careful of the spin now he's at Chelsea. Fair play to Nando, though. Hope his PR team are getting a large chunk of his wages. Hearing Winter and co gushing about him afterwards played right into their hands. Ambiguity mixed with innocence clearly equals off the hook.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #491 on: February 4, 2011, 08:57:50 pm »
Posted this in another thread but thought it was more appropriate here:

Some people are still asking why Chelsea, why now? Its quite straightforward and explains Torres's slightly odd statemnt when he was encouraging the club to negotiate with Chelsea and make the right decision for BOTH the player and the club.

First of all you have to accept the fact that, in professional footballing terms, Torres HAD to move on. A striker relying heavily on pace, he has 24 months left at peak condition and it would almost certainly take longer to turn round the club after the disaster of H&G&P. Torres came back from the World Cup with a winners medal to add to his European championship medal. The rest of his teammates feted as the best in the world all playing for top clubs and in the top competitions, two of them soon to be nominated for the balon d'or alongside Messi.

For Torres to have any hope of playing in that team there is simply no way he could afford to be out of the Champions League next season, regressing as astriker under Hodgson, involved in a relegatiuon fight then have a new manager come in who (according to all rules of football logic) would require a transition period before getting back to the top flight.


A contract is a two way thing and this is not the club that Torres had signed up to when he left his boyhood club. He only signed for us because we promised him the opportunities to compete for top honours and we failed, as a club, on our side of the bargain. Surely nobody thinks he would have left had we been challenging for the title and in Europe?

And its easy to say 'give the club a chance'. He did. Again and again - and promises were broken to him by our club. Its easy to gamble with other people's careers but he put his career on the line when, for example, Llorente was breathing down his neck for his starting spot. Remember he stuck with us and gave Hodgson a chance long after most of the people on this forum had given up on him.

So once he had decided to go the question was to which club and when?

Under the FIFA financial fair play rules, this is the last eligible window for club expenses to be registered for the 2010/2011 season. Starting from summer, transfer dealings are part of the 2011/2012 season.

From 2011/2012 clubs will be barred from Champions League and European competition if they are spending 35 million more than they bring in. Chelsea have already announced a 70million pound loss in the last year. Since they are unlikely to turn this around very quickly, if they went on a Summer spending splurge there is a good chance they will be banned from European competition.

Solution?

If you have big name stars you want to sign, do it now before they go 'on the books' for 2011/2012. Hence they had to sign Torres and Luiz during this window. This also explains why Torres had to go to Chelsea - the only other club who might have spent big money on a striker was City who have just completed their lineup by signing Dzeko.

The other consideration is that Chelsea desperately need to get at least fourth place because they will get 35 million pounds of income during next season by qualifying for Champions league and, crucially, this extra income gives them an extra 35 million of leeway on what they can spend.

Hence for both these reasons it makes perfect sense to pay over the odds now rather than wait till summer when Torres would be much less valuable.

This also applies to us. 50 million pounds is great in your pocket but isnt going to score you many goals. We know we need 4-5 players but theres no way we could spend that much in Summer without disqualifying ourselves from European competition either.

It is therefore better to pay over the odds NOW for a big name striker - every pound spent in January means another pound freed up to spend in summer. And what are the rules for buying players according to Sabermetrics/Moneyball? You decrease the impact of the premium we are forced to pay by:

1. Buying a young player
2. Proving he is able to perform in the Premiership
3. Has personal problems / mental attitude that is cheap to fix if addressed in the right way

And hence you see we are in for Andy Carroll, Luis Suarez, Charlie Adams and Micah Richards.
AC will only get better now that he has moved to a better, more scientific club with a higher standard of player. the 'extra' 10 million we are paying for him is actually negligible over the years of his contract, rise in his value, likely international status (not many other strikers like him in England hence marketability and image rights) effects of inflation, being able to effectively spend more this summer and his improvement to our team in general. Remember if by some miracle he manages to get us into 4th spot he will have paid off his entire transfer fee for the rest of his stay here. He will have have been effectively a free transfer.

A lot of fans were saying 'I cant believe we have spent that much on Carroll who is unproven' - you can now see why its a risk but a very clever and calculated one that is almost certain to pay off. Even finishing two places higher should bring in an extra few million pounds and offset the extra cost.

But then I guess a lot of fans would have said the same thing if we had signed Shearer for a million pounds from Southhampton at the end of his first season (after which he hadnt scored any goals).

The upshot is we COULDNT have had Suarez/Carroll/Torres all playing together. The deal was reached at exactly the right time for both Torres and LFC.


NESV are smart cookies, no? It was the right decision all round - if Torres had left when we were offering what we had promised him I would agree with all the stick hes getting. But we broke our promises so I dont. this is NOT down to the player - its the inevitable consequence of Hicks, Gillette and Purslow.

And by the way, can i also ask, why have Moores and Parry managed to escape any of the blame for selling to those idiots in the first place when a cursory examination of their ownership would have revealed what a disaster they were going to be? How did Martin Broughton, not a footballing man and with no previous ties to the club, manage to do a far job of finding the right owners than the supposed guardians of the Liverpool Way?

We should thank Torres for the memories and wish him well for the future - if you know anyone going to the game on Sunday please ask them not to boo him - if they want to demonstrate, they should boo the five clowns mentioned above.


Well written but sorry I think its tosh.

Torres didnt care about the new FIFIA Financial fair play rules. In fact why would any player care about that? Torres cares about Torres.

You make out like Torres was trying to do us a favour - Rubbish! The only favour he was doing was for himself.

In terms of saying Torres has only little lift before he is finished so to speak again rubbish - If Owen is a find himself at a top club sure Torres can when he is in his 30's.

Cant you see the whole City thing was planned. Its clear that everything was waited until they were out of the way.

You say the we need 4-5 new players and I agree with that but Chelsea have a team that's enough on its last legs - If your going to join any team then for me it has to Utd, Spurs, Arsenal or us(yes us)

You know what you defend Torres but I am sorry the way he acted was bang out of order.

You fail to talk about the transfer request or the "top level" club comment but more importantly you fail to answer why the fuck didnt put a decent shift in this season.

We're 7th at the moment but we could of been so closer to 4th or even in 4th if the lad pulled his weight for us.

Sorry you make excuses for the lad but for me I am well pissed off with him and he is worse than Owen in my book.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2011, 09:11:24 pm by Fordy »

Offline Leighc1979

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #492 on: February 4, 2011, 08:58:04 pm »


Are three sevens good? I thought it was triple bars that meant for mass jackpot bonanza! : )

Offline Lord Vader

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #493 on: February 4, 2011, 09:02:54 pm »
I thought some of the songs for S&C i was seeing here were getting very gay until i saw this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B5ftOV3FYA

Note the difference between us and the plastics, there is a strong emphasis on their disbelief on him signing for them, have we ever once been surprised that any world class player has signed for us..............?

That's rhetorical by the way ;)

PR will never repair betrayal of the type he committed.

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Offline farawayred

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #494 on: February 4, 2011, 09:04:31 pm »
Are three sevens good? I thought it was triple bars that meant for mass jackpot bonanza! : )
Got shite when I looked for bars for 2 seconds on Google... ;) I did mean jackpot.
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Offline fredfrop

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #495 on: February 4, 2011, 09:07:29 pm »
meh, forget him.

He's dead to me - even deader than Cher off X factor's eyes - and that's pretty dead.
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Offline 5

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #496 on: February 4, 2011, 09:31:56 pm »
mc manaman for 0 pounds is harder to take than Torres for 50. ala Owen 11 mill GP to Real - Newcastle - ManU.
Torres want to win things and is 27 years, can hardly blame him for his winning instinct.
Whatever, hope we prove him wrong the next two years or so. Owen would atleast have a CL winners medal if he stayed.

Offline REDbrown

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #497 on: February 4, 2011, 09:39:48 pm »

Fernando Torres, Liverpool's No. 9. Now Chelsea's. It doesn't really have the same ring to it. He had become such an idol; now he is a fallen one, loathed where once he was loved. In the end, everyone was happy. But deep down, no one was.
Wtf? I'm pretty sure the whole 'Chelsea camp' (including 'Abro' and their despicable plastic fans) are pretty f*cking happy!

Ultimately I don't hate Torres, but I don't f*cking sympathise with Chelsea players either. So, El Winny the Poo can f*ck right off, the honey loving twat.   
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Offline AnotherSpanishfan

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #498 on: February 4, 2011, 09:40:53 pm »
H&G/Cecil/Roy/Poulsen/Torres being a c*nt + Henry saying he won't be not pouring cash in to buy players = no nando

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #499 on: February 4, 2011, 09:46:23 pm »
Caught 10 minutes of talksport before , Adrian Durham and Darren Gough said they felt sorry for him because he would never find what he had at Liverpool by going to Chelsea.

Not sure if that makes it more likely to be right or wrong given that they talk poo most of the time.


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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #500 on: February 4, 2011, 09:49:23 pm »
Fordy, thanks for your comments; to address your points:

"Torres didnt care about the new FIFIA Financial fair play rules. In fact why would any player care about that? Torres cares about Torres."

Torres PERSONALLY might not care about the rules but when the rules affect which clubs are able to buy you and when then you start paying attention.

"You make out like Torres was trying to do us a favour - Rubbish! The only favour he was doing was for himself."

Of course, im not arguing that he didn't look out for himself but you have to admit he could have left any time he wanted. Why stick with us under a regressive manager like Hodgson, fighting on the fringes of relegation with no prospect of playing in europe when the rest os his Spanish teamates were playing at the very highest level? What is your explanation for this?

"In terms of saying Torres has only little lift before he is finished so to speak again rubbish - If Owen is a find himself at a top club sure Torres can when he is in his 30's."

I agree he can be at a top club but the goal isnt just to be at a top club is it? Its about being able to play and score goals (and do the same at national level too). Look at Owen (since you mentioned him) - yes he is at a top club but what has he done since he lost his pace? How many goals has he scored? You think he is a viable prospect for England?


"Cant you see the whole City thing was planned. Its clear that that everything was waited until they were out of the way."

Maybe so - that point doesnt reallky contradict anything I said above.

"You say the we need 4-5 new players and I agree with that but Chelsea have a team that's enough on its last legs - If your going to join any team then for me it has to Utd, Spurs, Arsenal or us(yes us)"

But thats the point you are missing - Chelsea was the only option. United dont have the money for Torres and already have their strikers sorted out. Spurs would love him but dont have the money. Arsenal might have the money but it would go totally against Wengers philosophy to spend that much and smash his club's wage structure.

As for us - i personally think King Kenny is turning things around faster than anyone could have anticipated but, for those who dont know Kenny and this club looking for the outside, turning round a club, adding new players and implementing your own style normally entails a transition period of at least three years. The likelihood is that we wont make the top four again this year which means ANOTHER year of not playing in the Champions League and losing your place in the national side.

"You know what you defend Torres but I am sorry the way he acted was bang out of order."

Maybe youre right but then you have to admit the way we have acted like a club was bang out of order too. The way we treated Rafa, mascherano, the appointment of Hodgson, failing to invest in the team or the stadium all ended up breaking our promise to Torres that he would be competing at the highest level and thats bang out of order too. Im sure that you would agree a contract between two parties has obligations on either side; let me ask you what were ours?

"You fail to talk about the transfer request or the "top level" club comment but more importantly you fail to answer why the fuck didnt put a decent shift in this season."

What about the transfer request? he didnt want to be here, it was the last chance to leave and we got a better price now than in Summer so whats the big deal about the transfer request? We have ended up stronger with him gone.
As for the 'top level' club remark - we are no longer at the top level - hopefully soon we will be but the fact is we are not competing in ANY major competitions and were only recently hovering above the relegation zone. is that your idea of a 'top level' club. Torres himself said he came here, we made him a top level player and we would be back at the top level but he didnt have that time (for the reasons explained above).

Look, i agree he had been playing poorly all season but why arent you angry with the rest of the team then? Was everyone else playing a blinder only to pass it to Torres who simply couldnt be arsed? No - the whole damn team played in a listless unmotivated manner thanks to Hodgson's genius. Imagine dedicating yourself to becoming a Formula One driver - winning the World championship and then being forced to be coached by a driving instructor who spends most of his day getting 17 year olds throughtheir driving tests.


"We're 7th at the moment but we could of been so closer to 4th or even in 4th if the lad pulled his weight for us."

We had the players to be so much closer to 1st if everyone else had pulled their weight too. And that includes the players who engineered Rafas move out of the club. Dont forget Torres felt a lot of personal loyalty to Rafa (who was after all the one who brought him to our club) - same story with Mascherano ('Rafas football is my football').

"Sorry you make excuses for the lad but for me I am well pissed off with him and he is worse that Owen in my book"

Thats your opinion but remember that Owen left when we needed him and the club did badly out of his sale. Torres stayed when we needed him and his departure left the club stronger.

And im not making excuses for him. I wish he could see that Kenny is going to turn this club around faster than could be thought humanly possible but then its easy to say that when its not my career I'm gambling with. We asked him to trust us that he would be competing at the top level when he signed, we blew it. We asked him to trust us with the management of his injury so he could go to the World Cup, we blew it. We asked him to trust us when we sacked Rafa and appointed Hodgson, we blew it. We asked him to trust us that there would be significant investment in the team under H&G, we blew it.

It's easy to just blame the player but the truth is a little more complicated than you make out. Or maybe youre right and we all completely misjudged the lad's character over three and a half years.

Either way he still doesnt shoulder all the blame and we are big enough to thank him for what he did for us and move on.
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Offline tanvir

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #501 on: February 4, 2011, 09:53:13 pm »
He's erm... obviously gone there to try and prevent the Manc's winning #19... obviously  ;)
 ::)

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #502 on: February 4, 2011, 09:56:01 pm »

Personally, I think that LFC will win the Premier League title before Torres does ...
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #503 on: February 4, 2011, 10:08:16 pm »
Fordy, thanks for your comments; to address your points:

"Torres didnt care about the new FIFIA Financial fair play rules. In fact why would any player care about that? Torres cares about Torres."

Torres PERSONALLY might not care about the rules but when the rules affect which clubs are able to buy you and when then you start paying attention.

"You make out like Torres was trying to do us a favour - Rubbish! The only favour he was doing was for himself."

Of course, im not arguing that he didn't look out for himself but you have to admit he could have left any time he wanted. Why stick with us under a regressive manager like Hodgson, fighting on the fringes of relegation with no prospect of playing in europe when the rest os his Spanish teamates were playing at the very highest level? What is your explanation for this?

"In terms of saying Torres has only little lift before he is finished so to speak again rubbish - If Owen is a find himself at a top club sure Torres can when he is in his 30's."

I agree he can be at a top club but the goal isnt just to be at a top club is it? Its about being able to play and score goals (and do the same at national level too). Look at Owen (since you mentioned him) - yes he is at a top club but what has he done since he lost his pace? How many goals has he scored? You think he is a viable prospect for England?


"Cant you see the whole City thing was planned. Its clear that that everything was waited until they were out of the way."

Maybe so - that point doesnt reallky contradict anything I said above.

"You say the we need 4-5 new players and I agree with that but Chelsea have a team that's enough on its last legs - If your going to join any team then for me it has to Utd, Spurs, Arsenal or us(yes us)"

But thats the point you are missing - Chelsea was the only option. United dont have the money for Torres and already have their strikers sorted out. Spurs would love him but dont have the money. Arsenal might have the money but it would go totally against Wengers philosophy to spend that much and smash his club's wage structure.

As for us - i personally think King Kenny is turning things around faster than anyone could have anticipated but, for those who dont know Kenny and this club looking for the outside, turning round a club, adding new players and implementing your own style normally entails a transition period of at least three years. The likelihood is that we wont make the top four again this year which means ANOTHER year of not playing in the Champions League and losing your place in the national side.

"You know what you defend Torres but I am sorry the way he acted was bang out of order."

Maybe youre right but then you have to admit the way we have acted like a club was bang out of order too. The way we treated Rafa, mascherano, the appointment of Hodgson, failing to invest in the team or the stadium all ended up breaking our promise to Torres that he would be competing at the highest level and thats bang out of order too. Im sure that you would agree a contract between two parties has obligations on either side; let me ask you what were ours?

"You fail to talk about the transfer request or the "top level" club comment but more importantly you fail to answer why the fuck didnt put a decent shift in this season."

What about the transfer request? he didnt want to be here, it was the last chance to leave and we got a better price now than in Summer so whats the big deal about the transfer request? We have ended up stronger with him gone.
As for the 'top level' club remark - we are no longer at the top level - hopefully soon we will be but the fact is we are not competing in ANY major competitions and were only recently hovering above the relegation zone. is that your idea of a 'top level' club. Torres himself said he came here, we made him a top level player and we would be back at the top level but he didnt have that time (for the reasons explained above).

Look, i agree he had been playing poorly all season but why arent you angry with the rest of the team then? Was everyone else playing a blinder only to pass it to Torres who simply couldnt be arsed? No - the whole damn team played in a listless unmotivated manner thanks to Hodgson's genius. Imagine dedicating yourself to becoming a Formula One driver - winning the World championship and then being forced to be coached by a driving instructor who spends most of his day getting 17 year olds throughtheir driving tests.


"We're 7th at the moment but we could of been so closer to 4th or even in 4th if the lad pulled his weight for us."

We had the players to be so much closer to 1st if everyone else had pulled their weight too. And that includes the players who engineered Rafas move out of the club. Dont forget Torres felt a lot of personal loyalty to Rafa (who was after all the one who brought him to our club) - same story with Mascherano ('Rafas football is my football').

"Sorry you make excuses for the lad but for me I am well pissed off with him and he is worse that Owen in my book"

Thats your opinion but remember that Owen left when we needed him and the club did badly out of his sale. Torres stayed when we needed him and his departure left the club stronger.

And im not making excuses for him. I wish he could see that Kenny is going to turn this club around faster than could be thought humanly possible but then its easy to say that when its not my career I'm gambling with. We asked him to trust us that he would be competing at the top level when he signed, we blew it. We asked him to trust us with the management of his injury so he could go to the World Cup, we blew it. We asked him to trust us when we sacked Rafa and appointed Hodgson, we blew it. We asked him to trust us that there would be significant investment in the team under H&G, we blew it.

It's easy to just blame the player but the truth is a little more complicated than you make out. Or maybe youre right and we all completely misjudged the lad's character over three and a half years.

Either way he still doesnt shoulder all the blame and we are big enough to thank him for what he did for us and move on.

Most supporters have to hate Torres, it's either that or accept that he left the club because it isn't great anymore. Accepting the reality that we're currently a mid-table club would damage the ego of so many supporters.

The good to come out of this is we have 2 new strikers and Kenny in charge (long may that remain so). But we still don't know how determined FSV are to get us back to the top. They only spent 1m in this transfer window and given how they were haggling over Suarez then miraculously raised their bid "JUST BEFORE" Torres handed in his transfer request leaves a mark over FSV's willingness to spend THEIR OWN MONEY. All the same I believe we're in good hands now. But time will tell.
Goodbye & thank you Rafa. You've given us more than we ever had a right to expect from you and you stayed loyal and fought for us even when some of our own turned on you. I truly hope that you find somewhere with the support that you deserve & win everything in sight.

Offline REDbrown

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #504 on: February 4, 2011, 10:15:34 pm »
Most supporters have to hate Torres, it's either that or accept that he left the club because it isn't great anymore. Accepting the reality that we're currently a mid-table club would damage the ego of so many supporters.

Wrong. Indifference is a perfectly viable option.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #505 on: February 4, 2011, 10:25:00 pm »
"Most supporters have to hate Torres, it's either that or accept that he left the club because it isn't great anymore."

Good point. i believe its called the rage of the justly accused.

as for the owners I think youre right that time will tell but the signs look good. Im trying to think who else we could have bought in January without getting ripped off though.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #506 on: February 4, 2011, 10:31:24 pm »
Don't know if this has already been said as I haven't read all thirteen pages.

What the article does not touch on at all is Torres form and lack of commitment in matches in the last twelve months. It suggests that the club let him down in the last month?

He was obviously unhappy a long time ago and as many reporters have pointed out his best game this year was against Chelsea. Sid's article (whoever he is) doesn't even touch on these "facts/observations" of others.  Balanced article - mmmmm

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #507 on: February 4, 2011, 10:34:09 pm »
"Most supporters have to hate Torres, it's either that or accept that he left the club because it isn't great anymore."

Good point. i believe its called the rage of the justly accused.

as for the owners I think youre right that time will tell but the signs look good. Im trying to think who else we could have bought in January without getting ripped off though.
Can you not learn to use the quote button? Please?? :P

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #508 on: February 4, 2011, 10:35:12 pm »
He wants to win trophies ASAP, not sure he'll do that with Chelsea this season (or ever) but I can understand.  He gave 4 years of his life to LFC, didn't win anything (came close), he's 27 and LFC are rebuilding.  He wants a quick fix and he thinks Chelsea can give it to him.  All the best to him (not chelsea)


Offline Roslagen

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #509 on: February 4, 2011, 10:36:29 pm »
Thing is, Torres wouldn't lose his national team place because he's playing outside CL - he is much too big name for that, and Fernando Llorente is picked despite playing in an Athletic Bilbao that hasn't played at Champions League level for decades - yes decades.

In the end it was all about the ca$hbox and a heavier pur$e £itting for a gr€€dy player  ;)
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Offline Stigathedump

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #510 on: February 4, 2011, 10:42:54 pm »
Thing is, Torres wouldn't lose his national team place because he's playing outside CL - he is much too big name for that, and Fernando Llorente is picked despite playing in an Athletic Bilbao that hasn't played at Champions League level for decades - yes decades.

In the end it was all about the ca$hbox and a heavier pur$e £itting for a gr€€dy player  ;)

I disagree mate, don't think it had anything to do with $$, it was a drive to win medals.  He gave 4 years to us and didn't get what he wanted, he's obviously settled in the UK and sees Chelsea as a way to win something quick (this season) i.e. CL or PL etc. Hopefully they won't.

Who cares now anyway, we came out the winners in the end .....$50 million for an injury prone player. 

Offline Roslagen

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #511 on: February 4, 2011, 10:49:47 pm »
I disagree mate, don't think it had anything to do with $$, it was a drive to win medals.  He gave 4 years to us and didn't get what he wanted, he's obviously settled in the UK and sees Chelsea as a way to win something quick (this season) i.e. CL or PL etc. Hopefully they won't.

Who cares now anyway, we came out the winners in the end .....$50 million for an injury prone player.

Medals with Chelsea :lmao

Rather a nice meeting out with the pensioneers...
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #512 on: February 4, 2011, 10:55:08 pm »
Very good article by Lowe, a good read as always, but it's got plenty of holes for me. Not arsed about Torres now tho, but as a starter.. Dzeko was signed very early on in Jan. We've all got theories and some knowledge... some I agree with, some I don't. I see Torres's point of view, but he spent much of his time winning love for the sake of the thing itself, but that seems to have been for his benefit only. Like politicians they have advisors surrounding them and maybe as a team they get things wrong. Whatever the case, he's there for himself and is maybe at the right team now. If he wins the league title this year I don't know how real that'll feel for him, Chelsea may even with the Champions league but it's a knock out competition. Shit happens, good and bad.

In short.. he got what he wanted, and we get what we want... a team to get behind... a four cornered team perhaps. We've sure as shit got a manager to get behind. I think we'll get done on Sunday, done badly - dunno why. It's not that I go there with no belief, but they've got a big striker on the bench, it's all happy days and a big 'come on' in their dressing room, and there's a bit of doubt in ours. Reasons to be very cheerful yes, but this is a massive game for us all. It's just bloody everything.

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #513 on: February 4, 2011, 10:57:25 pm »
Personally, I think that LFC will win the Premier League title before Torres does ...

That's an interesting one. One thing though I would bet on is that no fucking way is he getting his hands on the CL. Terry's slip in the Moscow mud was karma of biblical proportions, the comedy Bond villain's own backyard with Putin in the stands. They'll never come closer IMO.

Personally I can't wait to for them to have their arses handed to them once again. Don't bet against FCK either, they have form against Chelsea when they saw off Mourinho's reign. And then the cherry on the cake would be then missing out on 4th. There will be a tsunami of schadenfreude if that happens.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #514 on: February 4, 2011, 10:58:45 pm »
Medals with Chelsea :lmao

Rather a nice meeting out with the pensioneers...

True mate, but whatever way you look at it, they're in a better position than LFC right now to win some silverware....and thats exactly how Torres sees it.  I'm not condoning his actions just trying to look at it from his view.  Too many people on here are wanting the worst for him, I don't want the worse for him.....I want the worst for Chelsea. (and maybe Torres on Sunday)

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #515 on: February 4, 2011, 11:01:26 pm »
From The Times

Fernando Torres declares age of romance dead after another tricky divorce

Neil Gardner
1 minute ago

£50 million striker tells Oliver Kay that he is ready for a more ruthless approach to football life

Romance is dead. Fernando Torres said so yesterday. He had always imagined otherwise, flinging himself headlong into love affairs with Atlético Madrid and Liverpool, but he feels he knows better now.

There might seem something devilish in a fixture list that takes Liverpool to Stamford Bridge tomorrow in his first appearance for Chelsea — whether in the starting line-up or from the bench — since his British-record £50 million transfer on Monday. But the emotions are not what they would once have been for someone who, in his football career, has ultimately been left unfulfilled by two initially blissful marriages.

Torres will discover tomorrow that hell hath no fury like a Scouser scorned. But if he is the one who walked out — and he repeated his claim yesterday that Liverpool were already negotiating with Chelsea when he indicated a keenness to move — he did so in the belief that the love had died. He talked of eschewing any celebrations if he scores, out of “respect for their fans”, but otherwise he appeared a less innocent, more cynical, more ruthless footballer than the one who arrived on Merseyside in 2007 and claimed to have fallen in love.

Of all the statements Torres made at Chelsea’s training ground in Cobham, Surrey, yesterday, the two that resonated loudest were the one about romance and the one in which he said that he had “never kissed the Liverpool badge”. Cue suspicious looks among some of his audience. What, really? “No, never.”

Sports desk picture editors went into overdrive in an attempt to find evidence that Torres had kissed the Liverpool crest, but he never did — not literally, anyway. Even if he was responsible for the mythology that built up around him at Anfield, talking of his heartfelt identification with the club, the city and its people, Liverpool was never his true love.

“I didn’t even kiss the badge at Atlético,” he said. “And I loved Atlético. I see some players doing that when they join a club, but the romance in football has gone. It’s a different thing now. People come and leave. When you join a club, you want to do the best for yourself and that club. That is all.”

It is hard to imagine Torres saying such things in his first two love-struck seasons at Liverpool. In October 2009 he said he would never consider joining another English team. But that happened to be the same month that the cracks that had begun to appear at the Merseyside club widened dramatically as they went from contenders to also-rans in the Barclays Premier League and the Champions League, and the mood at Anfield darkened.

Sources close to Torres have cited “broken promises” that the former regime at Liverpool made last summer in an attempt to safeguard his short-term future while the club were in the process of being sold — ultimately to Fenway Sports Group in October — but he preferred to look back farther.

“It’s not just last summer, really,” Torres said. “It’s the last two years maybe, especially with the old owners [Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr]. Last summer, with the change of manager, the sale process was very serious. I wanted to start the new season with big expectations, but I soon realised expectations weren’t so high. It’s best to be honest about what you can achieve every season. People were talking about winning the Premier League or finishing in the top four, but we were in the relegation zone after a month.

“When the new owner, John Henry, came, the club started moving in the right direction. They have ambition and they know how to go back to the way they were. But in my opinion they need time for that. And maybe I’m at my best age to play football now. I wanted to try to help the team forward, to get back in the top four. They’re close now, sixth or seventh, and moving the right way. But when you have a chance of playing for a team in the Champions League, with a chance to win it, and are the right age to do that and compete with the best, you have to do that.”

It is the same explanation that Steven Gerrard would have given had he not abandoned the idea of leaving Liverpool for Chelsea in 2004 and again, after winning the Champions League, 12 months later. Torres, 26, said Gerrard had called him to wish him good luck — “maybe because he was in that situation before” — but tensions are nonetheless certain to run high on the pitch as well as in the stands tomorrow.

Torres was asked what kind of tackle he expects from Jamie Carragher, with whom relations were strained towards the end of his Anfield career. “I don’t know,” he said, laughing. “I’m expecting a hard game. I know he’s a big Liverpool fan. But I’m sure he understands my decision. I’m sure he wanted me to stay, but it was the same for me when [Xabi] Alonso and [Javier] Mascherano left. It was a big disappointment to me, but I understood they did the best for themselves, their families and their careers.”

When did he make the decision to leave? “As soon as I knew that Liverpool and Chelsea were talking,” he said. “I told them then that the decision was made and I would like them to talk seriously about the possibility.

“I was the first one to go to the manager and other people to tell them I would like to leave. I can’t tell you the date, but maybe 10 or 12 days before the close of the transfer window.”

Whatever the truth behind the timings, Torres must know that his bridges — as well as a Liverpool shirt bearing his name — have been burnt. Being sold against his wishes by Hicks and Gillett, with the club managed by Roy Hodgson, might have seen him martyred, albeit not if his destination was Chelsea. But actively encouraging his sale by the Henry regime, with Kenny Dalglish back in the Anfield dugout, is a different matter.

John Aldridge, the former Liverpool forward, called him a “fraud and a traitor”. “I don’t think ‘traitor’ is fair,” Torres said. “I don’t think it makes sense. They can say what they want. I played three very good seasons there, left massive money there, lots of goals, good performances. I helped the sale process, too. I’m happy with everything I did there.”

Could he have given more to the cause in the final months? “Too many people are talking about that,” he said. “I played there for 3½ years and I always gave my best. But when I had the chance to join Chelsea, I couldn’t say no. I have to think about my career. It’s a step forward, everyone agrees.”

Well, not everyone, as will be made loud and clear tomorrow. “I have only good words to say about Liverpool and the fans. Maybe it’s too soon to ask for a good reception,” Torres said. “I’m not expecting that.

But it would be a surprise for me if I get a very bad reception from the Liverpool fans.”

It is that kind of statement that will leave them wondering whether they ever knew Fernando José Torres Sanz at all. But that is modern football, where romance, he has concluded over the past joyless year or two, is dead.

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #516 on: February 4, 2011, 11:01:45 pm »
Oh and if Kobenhavn don't pull off an upset, there's a little cruel streak in me that says I'd like Jose to get one over on his old club, and for Torres to suffer once more at the Bernabeu, a reminder of his Atletico days.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #517 on: February 4, 2011, 11:05:38 pm »
he already has two of the best medals any player can have, so this lust for medals i do not believe, however doubling his wage makes absolute sense for just another prem whore sold to the highest payer!
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #518 on: February 4, 2011, 11:05:59 pm »
From The Times

Fernando Torres declares age of romance dead after another tricky divorce

Neil Gardner
1 minute ago

£50 million striker tells Oliver Kay that he is ready for a more ruthless approach to football life

Romance is dead. Fernando Torres said so yesterday. He had always imagined otherwise, flinging himself headlong into love affairs with Atlético Madrid and Liverpool, but he feels he knows better now.

There might seem something devilish in a fixture list that takes Liverpool to Stamford Bridge tomorrow in his first appearance for Chelsea — whether in the starting line-up or from the bench — since his British-record £50 million transfer on Monday. But the emotions are not what they would once have been for someone who, in his football career, has ultimately been left unfulfilled by two initially blissful marriages.

Torres will discover tomorrow that hell hath no fury like a Scouser scorned. But if he is the one who walked out — and he repeated his claim yesterday that Liverpool were already negotiating with Chelsea when he indicated a keenness to move — he did so in the belief that the love had died. He talked of eschewing any celebrations if he scores, out of “respect for their fans”, but otherwise he appeared a less innocent, more cynical, more ruthless footballer than the one who arrived on Merseyside in 2007 and claimed to have fallen in love.

Of all the statements Torres made at Chelsea’s training ground in Cobham, Surrey, yesterday, the two that resonated loudest were the one about romance and the one in which he said that he had “never kissed the Liverpool badge”. Cue suspicious looks among some of his audience. What, really? “No, never.”

Sports desk picture editors went into overdrive in an attempt to find evidence that Torres had kissed the Liverpool crest, but he never did — not literally, anyway. Even if he was responsible for the mythology that built up around him at Anfield, talking of his heartfelt identification with the club, the city and its people, Liverpool was never his true love.

“I didn’t even kiss the badge at Atlético,” he said. “And I loved Atlético. I see some players doing that when they join a club, but the romance in football has gone. It’s a different thing now. People come and leave. When you join a club, you want to do the best for yourself and that club. That is all.”

It is hard to imagine Torres saying such things in his first two love-struck seasons at Liverpool. In October 2009 he said he would never consider joining another English team. But that happened to be the same month that the cracks that had begun to appear at the Merseyside club widened dramatically as they went from contenders to also-rans in the Barclays Premier League and the Champions League, and the mood at Anfield darkened.

Sources close to Torres have cited “broken promises” that the former regime at Liverpool made last summer in an attempt to safeguard his short-term future while the club were in the process of being sold — ultimately to Fenway Sports Group in October — but he preferred to look back farther.

“It’s not just last summer, really,” Torres said. “It’s the last two years maybe, especially with the old owners [Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr]. Last summer, with the change of manager, the sale process was very serious. I wanted to start the new season with big expectations, but I soon realised expectations weren’t so high. It’s best to be honest about what you can achieve every season. People were talking about winning the Premier League or finishing in the top four, but we were in the relegation zone after a month.

“When the new owner, John Henry, came, the club started moving in the right direction. They have ambition and they know how to go back to the way they were. But in my opinion they need time for that. And maybe I’m at my best age to play football now. I wanted to try to help the team forward, to get back in the top four. They’re close now, sixth or seventh, and moving the right way. But when you have a chance of playing for a team in the Champions League, with a chance to win it, and are the right age to do that and compete with the best, you have to do that.”

It is the same explanation that Steven Gerrard would have given had he not abandoned the idea of leaving Liverpool for Chelsea in 2004 and again, after winning the Champions League, 12 months later. Torres, 26, said Gerrard had called him to wish him good luck — “maybe because he was in that situation before” — but tensions are nonetheless certain to run high on the pitch as well as in the stands tomorrow.

Torres was asked what kind of tackle he expects from Jamie Carragher, with whom relations were strained towards the end of his Anfield career. “I don’t know,” he said, laughing. “I’m expecting a hard game. I know he’s a big Liverpool fan. But I’m sure he understands my decision. I’m sure he wanted me to stay, but it was the same for me when [Xabi] Alonso and [Javier] Mascherano left. It was a big disappointment to me, but I understood they did the best for themselves, their families and their careers.”

When did he make the decision to leave? “As soon as I knew that Liverpool and Chelsea were talking,” he said. “I told them then that the decision was made and I would like them to talk seriously about the possibility.

“I was the first one to go to the manager and other people to tell them I would like to leave. I can’t tell you the date, but maybe 10 or 12 days before the close of the transfer window.”

Whatever the truth behind the timings, Torres must know that his bridges — as well as a Liverpool shirt bearing his name — have been burnt. Being sold against his wishes by Hicks and Gillett, with the club managed by Roy Hodgson, might have seen him martyred, albeit not if his destination was Chelsea. But actively encouraging his sale by the Henry regime, with Kenny Dalglish back in the Anfield dugout, is a different matter.

John Aldridge, the former Liverpool forward, called him a “fraud and a traitor”. “I don’t think ‘traitor’ is fair,” Torres said. “I don’t think it makes sense. They can say what they want. I played three very good seasons there, left massive money there, lots of goals, good performances. I helped the sale process, too. I’m happy with everything I did there.”

Could he have given more to the cause in the final months? “Too many people are talking about that,” he said. “I played there for 3½ years and I always gave my best. But when I had the chance to join Chelsea, I couldn’t say no. I have to think about my career. It’s a step forward, everyone agrees.”

Well, not everyone, as will be made loud and clear tomorrow. “I have only good words to say about Liverpool and the fans. Maybe it’s too soon to ask for a good reception,” Torres said. “I’m not expecting that.

But it would be a surprise for me if I get a very bad reception from the Liverpool fans.”

It is that kind of statement that will leave them wondering whether they ever knew Fernando José Torres Sanz at all. But that is modern football, where romance, he has concluded over the past joyless year or two, is dead.

Good article, at the end of the day he's a modern footballer, almost a businessman.  He wants to move his career forward and thinks Chelsea is the right move to make.  I don't think it is personally but what he says in my eyes makes some kind of sense.  Hopefully it all completly fails!!

Offline Sylveh

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #519 on: February 4, 2011, 11:07:13 pm »
Who fucking cares, goodbye. He was full of bs, like any other 'World class' player. He tried, we failed. Let's move on! Were going to be a better team for it, we don't revolve around one player.
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