Topic: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe

[AirConGipsyRed]

Hes converting to $ mate!But since your sloshed . . . I'll leave you off!

Bollox, that caught me with my mum's knickers on!

Meh.

Why convert to dollars though? Graphic effect?

I best re-read this tomorrow.........................................

[rogue]

Is this supposed to inspire sympathy for torres days before he plays against us?

Had he left while the previous owners had the club, no one wouldve blamed him.  Now things are different, would it have really have hurt him to gone without the cl next year and given it a full season with new owners and a proper manager?  It's not like he's going to be getting anything this season anyway.  I hope he gets everything he deserves.

[kennedy81]

Bollox, that caught me with my mum's knickers on!

Meh.

Why convert to dollars though? Graphic effect?

I best re-read this tomorrow.........................................

it's an american magazine.

[AirConGipsyRed]

it's an american magazine.

ffs, do I have to get debagged on every post I write.

coffee and aspirin in the morning for me

[AK47]

Just my opinion but the article is totally revisionist, the thoughts of a spoilt brat who is justifying his actions to himself....

Several things stand out as just complete lies and BS: The Man City deal for Dzeko affecting the timing, the Suarez deal being funded by his sale, the club forcing his hand by telling him of the Chelsea bid? All total BS designed to make him look like a victim.

But the main thing I just don't get is the angle that Torres hasn't won any trophies, he's some desperate poor lost soul that has never had any success in his tortured career. Lets not forget he's got a World Cup winners medal and also a European Champions winners medal, not a bad haul for someone of 26, in fact something not too many players have, definitely something to show to the grand kids. Yes I'm sure he wants more but to come out with cr*p that he's that desperate to win something he'd betray the faith and trust people have put on him is just pathetic.

[Notayesman]

I agree turning down the first deal means 'fuck all'. My point was, among many other inconsistencies in the article, Lowe stated that Liverpool went public first by turning it down. They did not. Ballague broke the story and Lowe followed. If you want to call Torres' agents 'reputable sources' that's your perogative, but that's where the 'rumour' was coming from and there's fuck all you can say to convince me otherwise. I don't call that good journalism, I call that dancing to someone else's tune

I didn't say they were reputable but the fact they were right means that in this case they were spot on. What I asked was you thought they were working for Torres' agent? They weren't, they are both journalist running with a story, if that's dancing to someone else's tune fair enough but then that's what they all do. It's their profession.

[Em5y]

Here is one question that arises from that article.  Would we have paid the amount we did for Suarez if the Torres deal hadn't happened?

[PIPA23]

Here is one question that arises from that article.  Would we have paid the amount we did for Suarez if the Torres deal hadn't happened?

this depends on if we knew chelsea will not drop the bid..

i think yes...he was bought for being Torres partner and Kenny and his interviews convinced me we didn´t wanted Torres to leave.

[drpepe]

Here is one question that arises from that article.  Would we have paid the amount we did for Suarez if the Torres deal hadn't happened?

yeah exactly the point i made earlier:


without the torres sale , we pay (NET) about 18m (suarez minus babel)

with the torres sale, we pay about 3m (suarez+Carroll minus torres+babel)

would the club have shelled out 18m net if the torres deal hadn't happened?

[kennedy81]

Some relationships had soured; in many eyes within the squad, Jaime Carragher went from inspirational defender to problem player. Captain Steven Gerrard was frustrated and injured.

I'm more interested in the references to carra and stevie to be honest, seeing as they are still our players.

[liverpooll]

yeah exactly the point i made earlier:


without the torres sale , we pay (NET) about 18m (suarez minus babel)

with the torres sale, we pay about 3m (suarez+Carroll minus torres+babel)

would the club have shelled out 18m net if the torres deal hadn't happened?

Suarez was already signed before there was even a bid from Chelsea

[Bob Loblaw]

yay, another Torres thread. article is incredibly one-sided and does nothing but make piss poor excuses for the lad. like I said in the other Torres thread where this was posted, it reads like a piece commissioned by Torres's people and an exercise in damage limitation.

[MagicB8all]

Good, well written article. I've come to some of the same conclusions about Torres' state of mind in some of the earlier threads; notably, he's clearly become deeply unhappy, fears his career is on the wane (as well as perhaps his physical assets) and has acted out of desperation, not malice. As I said before, I can't wish him luck at Chelsea, but I do hope he finds a place where he can be happy playing football at some point. Otherwise I fear he could be broken down and retired by the age of 30.

This is my basic psychological analysis. Also remember he's seen two clubs he loves spend time rebuilding and so far he's won nothing at club level.

Given his state of mind I'm interested unknowing whether it was loyalty or something  Purslow offered that made him stay during the summer. If for the sake of argument it was wealthy owners and a top class manager, you can see why he was frustrated and ripe for Chelsea's plucking.

to be honest I think the club and Chelsea played him well. They both got what they wanted. Time will tell if 'Nando gets what he craves most.

[drpepe]

Suarez was already signed before there was even a bid from Chelsea

don't think so mate -or at least thats not how it played out in the news.

 when the torres news came through we were still bidding back and for around the 15m mark. Only when he requested transfer did it suddenly jump to 23m or so

[Fanxxxxtastic]

To tell you the truth, I can't even be arsed to read the article.

There are way too many of these 'poor, poor Nando' stories going around just to try and justify his betrayal towards the club and supporters.

To tell you the truth, I get a feeling his PR representatives, and more so him, are mega pissed off.  They thought we'd be totally up in arms with the club and owners after selling the legend that is Nando, one of our apparent prized assets.  After the initial shock and anger of him handing in that transfer request, most of the supporters have already got over it.

I get the impression, that Kenny as good as told him to fuck off if he couldn't commit himself, and owners saw fit to back the boss by handing over the cash to make our record purchase.  The fact we've brought in two hungry young players, and dispensed with the sulk that was Nando, I'm more than happy with that.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adored Nando, especially over the first two seasons, but he'd got to the stage where his demeanour on the pitch was becoming nothing short of a joke.  The desire was visibly draining from him.  He'd lost a lot of his pace, and become a right moody tart. 

I was sick of making excuses for him.  He was one hell of a tease too.  Every now and again, he'd turn it on, and you'd think he was back to his best.  Then next game, sulky bastard. 

I guess we'll find out soon enough if he was being a real fraud or not.  If he starts to turn it on for them, it will be truly hurtful to witness.

[PIPA23]

don't think so mate -or at least thats not how it played out in the news.

 when the torres news came through we were still bidding back and for around the 15m mark. Only when he requested transfer did it suddenly jump to 23m or so

are you shure, we were quite happy to play them together in our thoughts well before torres transfer request go public... at this time we had Suarez already bought.

[Gojedo]

The last part of this piece said it all for me. I don't think the writer knew whether he was coming or going. Readable but only because I was curious.

[Redshadow]

Yep, it's right, Fernando Torres is the victim here. Have a pity on him. After all, he's gone to a smaller club and that's a fact! 

[common]

Great piece, agree with almost everything, esp. with this bit:

Jaime Carragher went from inspirational defender to problem player. Captain Steven Gerrard was frustrated

[Jonno_]

Pretty pathetic - doesn't make me feel any less sympathy for the guy. If all you want is the owners to show some ambition. and you are fed up with a bad manager and a fractured squad, which is what I gleamed from the article... and then the owners show ambition, get a decent manager, and finally win a few games and seem to play well and with fluency and you leave? Because you don't think you will get another chance? Because when the tide starts turning you jump ship? Without waiting it out for 3 more months, to see how it goes? Given that there will more than somewhere for you to go in the summer? Please. It doesn't make any sense.

And then when you do leave, and you are worried about bad press you say "I'm where I should be - at a top club"? You can fuck right off sir. If you really cared you would have waited for 3 months, rather than taking your frustration out on those who did not cause it (NESV and Dalglish), and angering the people who have been with you the entire way - the supporters.

I really hope that out of all of this, the line that is the most true in the article is how he talks about how Torres feels that he lost the propoganda battle. I really hope that affects him - because he deserves it.

[PIPA23]

my view is he was frustrated but could as well wait and try to play with Suarez and the thing about his prize being droped or that he might miss clubs wanting him if we did miserably untill summer is bullshit...he is still wanted player and highly wanted + he was still under contract here, so we could negotiate a similar prize for him...or he might turn the request down as Gerrard did before..

what make me feel we have wrong impression of Torres as the inocent one is the fact he never say goodbye, he disrespected us in the Chelsea interview, knowing what this club means very well...

This article won´t convince me at all to forgive him and as said before, someone said this and i will quote the person, people should realise that: "His dreams are to win the same trophies we are aiming to win. So I hope he fails miserably."

[hide5seek]

To tell you the truth, I can't even be arsed to read the article.

There are way too many of these 'poor, poor Nando' stories going around just to try and justify his betrayal towards the club and supporters.

To tell you the truth, I get a feeling his PR representatives, and more so him, are mega pissed off.  They thought we'd be totally up in arms with the club and owners after selling the legend that is Nando, one of our apparent prized assets.  After the initial shock and anger of him handing in that transfer request, most of the supporters have already got over it.

I get the impression, that Kenny as good as told him to fuck off if he couldn't commit himself, and owners saw fit to back the boss by handing over the cash to make our record purchase.  The fact we've brought in two hungry young players, and dispensed with the sulk that was Nando, I'm more than happy with that.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adored Nando, especially over the first two seasons, but he'd got to the stage where his demeanour on the pitch was becoming nothing short of a joke.  The desire was visibly draining from him.  He'd lost a lot of his pace, and become a right moody tart. 

I was sick of making excuses for him.  He was one hell of a tease too.  Every now and again, he'd turn it on, and you'd think he was back to his best.  Then next game, sulky bastard. 

I guess we'll find out soon enough if he was being a real fraud or not.  If he starts to turn it on for them, it will be truly hurtful to witness.

By a mile best post in the thread.

[vivabobbygraham]

I didn't say they were reputable but the fact they were right means that in this case they were spot on. What I asked was you thought they were working for Torres' agent? They weren't, they are both journalist running with a story, if that's dancing to someone else's tune fair enough but then that's what they all do. It's their profession.

You did say they had reputable sources, what I'm saying is those sources could only have been Torres' people. Who else could they have been? The fact they were proved correct confirms it. They didn't get their info out of a lucky bag. Now we have Lowe, two days before the Chelsea match, inferring he didn't want to go, but broken promises, needs to win things, blah, blah, blah, Liverpool got a good deal......Ballague, I'm a Liverpool fan, don't shoot the messanger.....I don't buy it mate.  Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

But as you can tell I'm over it........................

[1021]

I think the article is ultimately looking to paint Torres as the victim, isolated in a storm not of his own making, stranded in the Liverpool desert with the promise of an oasis in the form of Chelsea, or some other shite, with the aim of people taking pity of poor, helpless, 'Nando.

Well it wasn't necessary because I already do, you see that line about the train missing the station again, I have no doubt it has.
Good, even great things are just around the corner for the Liverpool FC our former no9 thought he was too good for and he might well pick up a couple of bits of tin, along with his monster pay packet down in West London, but they will be just that hollow meaningless bits of tin. He could have had a legacy here. And he blew it.

If Liverpool aren't good enough for you sunshine I'm glad you left enjoy your plastic flags, we'll be just fine without you.

[SportBilly]

I read the whole thing and that entire article smacks of damage limitation, probably run past Torres himself prior to publication.

And I've been wondering this - even though the shirt burning was obviously done for the cameras, were there any more legitimate instances of this? Stories of 'Liverpool fans burning their shirts' are rife, and I'm wondering whether they're all based on that one bit of contrived footage.

[Six Beardy]

I imagined Simon Bates reading that, with the Our Tune music playing in the background. Pass me the sick bucket.

No doubt Sid Lowe's suckassery and selective revisionist spin has  earned him a few exclusives in the future from El Plastico.

[SportBilly]

I imagined Simon Bates reading that, with the Our Tune music playing in the background...

That's what was missing!

[StevePass]

A dumb ass writer.  He makes it sound like Liverpool FC put a gun to Torres' head and asked him to go. 

Torres and Chelsea in cahoots, and that rentboy obviously has a mind of his own.  How Liverpool FC can be blamed for this I don't really know, unless you asked Sid Lowe.  What an obvious shower of shite.

[kcbworth]

Most of that was very good, but couldn't help feeling a sense of frustration at the way this was worded:

It was about Chelsea being, in his words, a "big club" -- and a big club right now. It was about Liverpool not being one. Not any more. And maybe not in the foreseeable future.

Maybe its just my perspective, but I think the author (and Torres of course) has confused "big" with "currently competitive". I don't think anyone would argue that we're not competitive this season, but to say thats an indication of how "big" the club is is crazy. Liverpool have a much larger fan base, likely a similar budget now really, much greater history, and much more appeal to most people, which to me, certainly indicates that Liverpool is a "big" club. Temporary failure does really have any indication on how "big" we are... does it?

[mercury]

Didn't miss it, I'd already said it in another post. But I don't think it's the core of the point I was responding to. Of course Torres wanted to leave. But once Liverpool knew that, I think - in part - that also suited the club and so we rightly got the best deal we could; and importantly, the club protected itself by making sure Torres demonstrably pushed for the move with the transfer request. And I think that's all Lowe is really saying, too.

Sid Lowe said a bit more than that mate. 

It's understandable Torres' people want to put in his perspective, albeit a bit whitewash (human nature this is), in the public domain. 

[kinofi]

Everything was good, until the last few paragraph. ridiculous suggestions.

[RJH]

yeah exactly the point i made earlier:


without the torres sale , we pay (NET) about 18m (suarez minus babel)

with the torres sale, we pay about 3m (suarez+Carroll minus torres+babel)

would the club have shelled out 18m net if the torres deal hadn't happened?

Possibly not.

I think the Suarez deal would have gone through whether Torres had stayed or not.
All the Torres departure did was weaken our hand in negotiating and force us to pay the extra amount Ajax were asking for.

[Big_Red]

Shouldn't this be in the General Football and Sport forum.

Who cares what the rentboy or his people say.

[common]

I'm more interested in the references to carra and stevie to be honest, seeing as they are still our players.

this.

[deadlybuzz]

An interesting read but ultimately as I read on it felt like damage control instigated once more by the Torres Camp. Of course Lowe's sources would be primarily based in Spain whether they are tied into the Torres agency or Torres himself. Ballague was first to break the news of the intentions of Torres, soon followed and backed up by Lowe. Coincidental surely? I just don't think so and here is another attempt of painting the picture of Torres the player as someone who shouldn't be entirely blamed for this mess with his side of the story.

Liverpool and Kenny have remained dignified as always.

[Didi_ram]

I dont think this article is entirely true.As in,Liverpool willing to sell him and Torres feeling that the club did not do enough to keep him.
Why hand in the request then?

[LFCpostCOM]

I think not even a mention of HIcks or Gillett as being the real culprits falls short of describing what really went wrong with the club, and how the 08/09 season was good in spite of everything. H&G, along with Purslow, and then Hodgson, almost totally fucked this club. We were perilously close to the wall, not just in football terms, but in becoming bankrupt.

This should not be overlooked so much as it is. This article fails in that regard.

Torres may have had enough, but the club has changed owners, executive, board, manager, and moved on. It is not the club of last year, and THAT should be acknowledged above all else. And the extra 65k per week cannot be dismissed as a major influence.

I think it lets him off the hook as well. He could easily have done this with more class, and not at the last minute. He could have handed in his notice on Jan 1, and let all clubs come in with bids. Going to Chelsea at the last minute, half way through a season that we still have to play them and compete for a Euro place, is unforgivable. The club were left with little choice, and the fact he was thrown off like bad rubbish for the best price possible was good management of a bad situation. If any good comes out of this mess, it's that players will know that the club cannot be held to ransom in the style of Rooney/Tevez - if you say you want to leave, better be ready to follow through. If Torres called LFC's bluff, he failed, and that could also be seen as a source of his anger toward us and should be acknowledged as so.

Torres (aka "that other fella") has become a footnote in our history, and he castigated the fans for his greed and frustration, for which he may leave behind his best football.

He is no longer one of us, and he walks alone. That was HIS doing. It could have been done with more class, but Nando chose the low road. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he ended up playing for R.Madrid, his boyhood club's arch enemy. I can't imagine any other club that deserves him more (or would be willing to pay for his magic wand).

Goodbye traitor.

[Popcorn]

Ha, failed attempt to play  Torres as the victim.

The lad will live to regret his move while we go from strength to strength.

In a few weeks none of us will give a fuck about him. Suarez will help us with that

[Juan Loco]

And the punk rock band plays on long in to the night,
The girls with empty eyes hardly even put up a fight


In this case the "punk rock" can be shortened to the PR band. The girl is Torres. His eyes are empty because he couldn't give a shit other than for himself. And he didn't put up a fight to the immense riches on offer

It's a well written article. I'd suspect it's coming from Torres' side though. Infact, it would seem likely that it was Torres who informed Lowe of his desire to leave last Friday morning when he (Lowe) was one of the first to say he'd push for a move.

Let's see if he gives enough of a shit to carry on defending his corner, pushing his side of the story, after the abuse he'll inevitably recieve on Sunday. I suspect we won't hear another word from him on the subject until he's next playing Liverpool. And really, why should he be - he's got plenty of videos to watch and books to read on Chelsea's history.

The people there are workers. Cut from the same cloth as their greatest manager, Jose Mourinho.

No, no, sorry. Wankers. Oh.

[xerxes1]

A fair and objective OP.