Topic: Diving, cheating, timewasting & theatrics in football

[Captain Caveman]

Thanks so much for posting that. It's very interesting.

The solution is so blindingly obvious that the PL/UEFA/FIFA won't give it a moment's thought. It involves yellow cards for time-wasting, but only as a back up to a more fundamental change.

Yes, yellow cards would be the simplest way. But it brings in the "how long is a piece of string" element with regards to when it is used and still allows a dimension of theatrics for the keeper to justify why it is taking so long. "See the ball won't stay still in that spot, so I have to try these other three spots. And my boots man, how can I be expected to kick the ball with that bit of grass on the studs". Also the general lack of desire to send a player off for such a "minor infringement".

Applying a time limit would give a framework for how long a goalkick should take normally. Like the old pass back rule, no one counts to 6 any more, but it helped reset the system regarding how long the keeper could hold on to the ball for. Saying that, if they bring back counting 6ish seconds from when the keeper first catches the ball, then this would immediately stop the frankly ridiculous Pickfordian antics of flopping onto the ground with the ball and lying there for as long as you like, smirking at the impotent referee.

And the threat of a corner kick in the dying minutes when you are holding on is a much greater incentive to restart play than a yellow card for the keeper, which actually only wastes a bit more time!
 

[sheepfest]

Always amused me when Suarez would stand with his hand in the air counting how long a goal kick was taking.

[Agent99]

I wish more of a lead was taken with what they do in Rugby. If there is an injury you stop the clock, the video ref and the main ref talk to each other to agree on a decision and you can hear it as they are mic'd up. If you have a head injury you go off for a concussion check, when the ball is available the scrum half has 5 seconds to use it and he is told when the countdown starts. But football wont do anything to change 'the beautiful game' as it's a cesspit at the moment.

[SamLad]

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/04/guide-to-premier-league-time-wasting/

Southampton apparently used up 13 min of their 3-3 against Arsenal taking goalkicks. 13 fucking minutes of watching a goalkeeper find a nice spot to place the ball and knocking grass off his boots before deciding that there was a much better spot for the ball 2 metres to the left. The keeper wasn't booked.

But then Ramsdale took 10 min when they played against us at Anfield.

Teams should get something like 20 seconds* to take a goalkick and if they exceed that time it turns into a corner. That would instantly give us 5+ more minutes of actual football during a game.

(* or x seconds from when ball is retrieved)

excellent piece - thanks for posting it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

They should bring back the rule were you take the GK from the side it goes out,sick of watching keepers put it down one side only to pick it back up and move it over.

[StigenKeegan]

Don't give corners for timewaisting... If the time limit is exceeded 20/30 sec); indirect freekick in the box. That'll stop the theatrics in no-time.

[Lee1-6Liv]

It is getting to the stage now where games are unwatchable. Our game Saturday was ruined by Brentford's play-acting and the referee was only too happy to give them everything. Ball was in play for 40 minutes and I saw someone say that for the ball to be in play for the premier league average of 55 minutes, the ref would have had to add on 38 minutes of injury time. Arsenal were as bad on Sunday, a team capable of playing some great football reduced to diving and feigning injury, and again the ref was only too happy to play along.

[BarryCrocker]

Premier League referees to add on time lost for goal celebrations this season

> New time-wasting regulations introduced across the EFL
> Exact time will also be measured for penalties and red cards

The exact time lost during goal celebrations will be measured by referees in the coming season, as part of a move to clamp down on dark arts and time-wasting.

New regulations, agreed upon by the law maker Ifab and the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), will take effect when the English Football League resumes next Friday and will be adopted by the Premier League. It is part of the PGMOL’s drive to keep the game flowing and a high threshold in terms of contact for free-kicks and penalties will remain.

Games are likely to run longer, as seen at the men’s and women’s World Cups. It is hoped the rules will increase the amount of time the ball is in play. The ball was recorded as in play for only 51 minutes during Arsenal’s draw with Newcastle in January. Opta found the ball was in play in the Premier League for an average of 54 minutes and 49 seconds last season.

In previous seasons the policy was to add a nominal period of time for events such as goals and subsequent celebrations, substitutions and injuries. The same applied to penalties and red cards.

Other changes will involve players receiving treatment off the field whenever possible to promote player safety and deter teams from slowing the game. Exceptions include when a goalkeeper is injured or if players from the same team have collided.

In circumstances where a player declines medical assistance, a teammate perceived to then purposely delay the restart will be cautioned. Referees have been reminded to book players who fail to respect the required distance at free-kicks.

The more robust approach will be in effect for the first time when Southampton visit Sheffield Wednesday next Friday for the Championship’s opening match. A multi-ball system will also be implemented.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/28/premier-league-referees-to-add-on-time-lost-for-goal-celebrations-this-season

[swoopy]

One thing that annoys me loads is when the ball goes out of play / free kick gets awarded.. and the opposition team kicks the ball away gently to delay the restart. It happens with virtually every free kick that's awarded. It should be an instant yellow card to stop it.

[TheMissionary]

A welcome step forward, but, again, why add time on when it's more sensible to just stop the clock?  They've identified the issue but have failed to put in the correct solution because they'll be bowing to the "Rugby does it properly" lobby.  Stupid bastards.

[farawayred]

A welcome step forward, but, again, why add time on when it's more sensible to just stop the clock?  They've identified the issue but have failed to put in the correct solution because they'll be bowing to the "Rugby does it properly" lobby.  Stupid bastards.

Is that Laurel in your avatar, mate? Memories...

I'm not sure that I'd agree with the stopping the clock chime. That may make sense for the integrity of the game while somewhat preserving the flow, but countries like the US (especially the US) will exploit the breaks to commercialize the game with ads. It will turn into American football - a game of less pure game time that lasts 3 hours.

[MonsLibpool]

Using a stop clock would be more efficient.

[Hazell]

"The ball was recorded as in play for only 51 minutes during Arsenal’s draw with Newcastle in January. Opta found the ball was in play in the Premier League for an average of 54 minutes and 49 seconds last season."

Who would have guessed a match between those two teams would result in the ball being in play for way below the average?

[Wghennessy]

Using a stop clock would be more efficient.

Its not always about time its about momentum aswell. Imagine if theres a stop clock and Pickford wants to slow the game down, he'll take all day, even longer then he does now as the argument would be that no time is being lost.

Just punish them as per the laws of the game...simple.

[SamLad]

One thing that annoys me loads is when the ball goes out of play / free kick gets awarded.. and the opposition team kicks the ball away gently to delay the restart. It happens with virtually every free kick that's awarded. It should be an instant yellow card to stop it.

what bugs me is throw-ins with players going for a long stroll before throwing the damn ball. happens about 95% of the time - every damn team, including us.  refs don't give a shit apparently, it's hardly ever called back.

[bradders1011]

A welcome step forward, but, again, why add time on when it's more sensible to just stop the clock?  They've identified the issue but have failed to put in the correct solution because they'll be bowing to the "Rugby does it properly" lobby.  Stupid bastards.

Rugby does do some stuff properly, most notably for me the idea of giving up the ball and moving away as soon as the decision goes against you. None of this kicking it away, standing 2 yards from the FK for a minute nonsense.

[Black Bull Nova]

Rugby does do some stuff properly, most notably for me the idea of giving up the ball and moving away as soon as the decision goes against you. None of this kicking it away, standing 2 yards from the FK for a minute nonsense.

It's not hard is it
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/KU_7uGuIaJk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/KU_7uGuIaJk</a>

[Fromola]

Its not always about time its about momentum aswell. Imagine if theres a stop clock and Pickford wants to slow the game down, he'll take all day, even longer then he does now as the argument would be that no time is being lost.

Just punish them as per the laws of the game...simple.

Personally if a game starts at 8pm I like to know it'll be finished before 10. I don't want to be sat there for another 30-60 mins because footballers are taking the piss. Just book them and if a player goes down injured he should be off the pitch for 10 minutes, that would put a stop to most of the injury feigning which Howe and Arteta have made an epidemic out of last season.

I don't want 15-20 mins of injury time every match. I want the game to flow.

"The ball was recorded as in play for only 51 minutes during Arsenal’s draw with Newcastle in January. Opta found the ball was in play in the Premier League for an average of 54 minutes and 49 seconds last season."

Who would have guessed a match between those two teams would result in the ball being in play for way below the average?

Annoying thing is the success of these two clubs last season in the PL was largely helped by the shameless cheating and flouting of rules systemically adapted by Howe and Arteta, throughout matches, without a single pushback from the league and it's shite officials. While we finish 5th (deservedly because we were shite) and seem to play to different rules than everyone else.

Everyone else seemed to follow suit. The likes of Brentford and Villa.

[lamonti]

Its not always about time its about momentum aswell. Imagine if theres a stop clock and Pickford wants to slow the game down, he'll take all day, even longer then he does now as the argument would be that no time is being lost.

Just punish them as per the laws of the game...simple.

Stop clock doesn't punish momentum breaking that's true, but it does change the mind set of teams if they know how long they *actually* have to play left. It certainly does in NFL, basketball and rugby. For me, it's the only real way to change behaviour in the game.

Football's laws do not have the powers to deal with time wasting. Everything is subjective within them. Adding on loads of injury is a step in the right direction but it's also completely nontransparent and at the personal whim of the officials, even if they are told to "start with five minutes at least, then whack on a few more if it feels right" which seemed to be the system in the world cup.

Time is pretty fucking easy to measure. FIFA/IFAB/referees refusal to do it is just another signal of the malaise in football officiating.

I would also ideally change the threshold for when play stops for injuries to make it basically never. But you can't actually do that, because what if someone is actually badly hurt.

[Crosby Nick]

what bugs me is throw-ins with players going for a long stroll before throwing the damn ball. happens about 95% of the time - every damn team, including us.  refs don't give a shit apparently, it's hardly ever called back.

Think it was our home game against Brentford - they had a throw in some near level with the centre circle in our half. The player stole a yard or two, paused, another couple, paused, a few more and ending up being close enough that he could launch a long throw into the box. Think that may have been cleared for a corner and I was thinking if they score from this is anyone going to do anything about it.

[Jshooters]

And then you’ll get moronic opposition fans justifying it with ‘everyone time wastes, your club have took the ball to the corner flag in the last minute’ as if that’s remotely the same thing as feigning head injuries in the first 20 minutes or taking 2 minutes over every goal kick in the match.

[lamonti]

The real tool to counter this is to measure the time wasted in games and just put in points deductions at certain thresholds. Simplest fix going.

[Hazell]

what bugs me is throw-ins with players going for a long stroll before throwing the damn ball. happens about 95% of the time - every damn team, including us.  refs don't give a shit apparently, it's hardly ever called back.

Didn't Robertson(?) get booked for timewating from a throw in against Brighton last season?

[Fromola]

All this is because of officials don't do their job (as well as certain managers instructing players to systemically cheat throughout matches).

If someone keeps time wasting - book them. They do book them when they want (i.e. Alisson last season, even when the opponent took longer on every goal kick).

If someone is down then play on unless it's a serious injury. If it's a head injury that causes the stoppage then the player should be kept off the pitch for at least 10 minutes (this one needs to be a directive brought in).

If referees managed the game properly then it wouldn't be an issue half the time. Stop giving soft free kicks all the time as well.

[Yorkykopite]

You’re simply repeating yourself. See Lamonti’s well-thought out reply to your previous post.

[lfc79]

The problem is people are never happy when the rules are properly applied and complain its spoiling the game. Imagine if one week they had a panel retrospectively review the game and hand out yellow and red cards, every goalkeeper who catches the ball and collapses on the floor getting booked, every player who kicks the ball away after whistle has been blown for freekick, every time multiple players surround the ref everyone but the captain getting booked it would look like an under 21 league the next week.

[TheMissionary]

Is that Laurel in your avatar, mate? Memories...

I'm not sure that I'd agree with the stopping the clock chime. That may make sense for the integrity of the game while somewhat preserving the flow, but countries like the US (especially the US) will exploit the breaks to commercialize the game with ads. It will turn into American football - a game of less pure game time that lasts 3 hours.

Yes, it's Stan Laurel (real name Stanley Jefferson) the funniest man in the world, and he was a Northerner as well .

This whole discussion comes down to the fact that players and managers, with just a few exceptions, are cheats and will do anything to win or, in the case of teams coming to Anfield, not lose.  On top of that the officials are incompetent or biased (another discussion) and are incapable or unwilling to apply the rules (or are they laws?).  Someone earlier said "stop giving soft free kicks all the time"
 I agree, but the officials are incapable, or again unwilling, of determining what is a soft foul.   Generalising I know, but I think you'll find the youngsters are happy with the game as it is, it's old buggers who've seen the game deteriorate who are complaining the loudest.

[SamLad]

Didn't Robertson(?) get booked for timewating from a throw in against Brighton last season?

maybe, don't recall that.  was it for timewasting or stealing yards, though?

yellows for effing about at throw-ins happen almost as rarely as goalies getting a yellow for effing about.

until we see:
a) refs turning over possession when a team blatantly wastes time
and / or
c) refs giving players -- especially goalies - 2nd yellows for timewasting/stealing yards at throw-ins

..... none of this is gonna stop

[coolbyrne]

It says something about the state of refereeing when the idea of expecting them to do their job (which would prevent a lot of this time-wasting from happening) is just a bridge too far. One warning, then a booking. Simple as. What happened to the spray paint that was being used to mark distance for free kicks? (I only see it every so often.) Use it to mark the line for a throw-in and if the player goes past it, warn him, then book him. Keeper takes longer than 6 seconds to get rid of the ball? Warn him then book him if he does it again. We're not asking them to reinvent the rules- these are the rules. Enforce them. Do your job.

[Fromola]

You’re simply repeating yourself. See Lamonti’s well-thought out reply to your previous post.

Time wasting is a bookable offence. Book players and they stop doing it. It's really up to the referee to manage the game properly. It's the easiest solution, rather than 20 minutes of injury time every week, stopped clocks or points deductions.

[Chris~]

Bring in a countdown or shot clock type thing for set pieces/restarts and give the opposition an indirect free kick/throw in if it takes too long.

[SamLad]

Use it to mark the line for a throw-in

Can't have refs do that, it'd take too much time for them to do it then get back into position.

Lino's maybe but they can be so far away they wouldn't be accurate spotting the placement.

Add more officials?

My guess is before too long the chip in the ball will be used for this and the VAR wiil tell the ref where the player should take the throw. (Cue uproar when a quick throw leads to a goal and is then called back for being taken 2 yards from exact spot )

[4pool]

Players and managers have been warned they face tougher punishments for poor behaviour at games.

The new penalties are part of a charter introduced by football's authorities for the 2023-24 campaign.

Managers and coaches will also have to adhere to new rules covering the technical area.

    As if they will do this against Man Utd.






'Unacceptable behaviour will not be tolerated'

"We want players, managers and fans to continue showing their passion, but these new measures have been introduced to ensure that the line is not crossed when it comes to on-field and technical area behaviour," said Premier League chief executive Richard Masters.

Teams at Step 7 and below of the men's game and in tier 3 and below in the women's pyramid will now face being docked points "if their players or coaches commit repeated offences of serious misconduct".

The points deductions will range from three to 12 points "depending on the number of breaches within 12 months of the team's first offence and severity of the case(s)".

"We frequently hear from grassroots participants that player behaviour is a growing issue and we're determined to change this," said Bullingham.

"Unacceptable behaviour towards other players and officials will not be tolerated."

[Yorkykopite]

Time wasting is a bookable offence. Book players and they stop doing it. It's really up to the referee to manage the game properly. It's the easiest solution, rather than 20 minutes of injury time every week, stopped clocks or points deductions.

A stop clock is the obvious solution. It’s objective not subjective. It doesn’t make the referees even more powerful as you seem to want.

[Fromola]

A stop clock is the obvious solution. It’s objective not subjective. It doesn’t make the referees even more powerful as you seem to want.

More powerful? I just want them to do their fucking jobs and enforce the rules.

I'm not against bringing in a stopped clock with a set amount of time to play, but it really isn't necessary if the game is played to the actual rules.

[Red-Soldier]

Players and managers have been warned they face tougher punishments for poor behaviour at games.

That means they'll o after Klopp even more.

[Yorkykopite]

More powerful? I just want them to do their fucking jobs and enforce the rules.

I'm not against bringing in a stopped clock with a set amount of time to play, but it really isn't necessary if the game is played to the actual rules.

You’re not thinking it through. Are you willing to book every player who takes more than 5 seconds to restart the game? Or should it be 7 seconds? Or maybe 8? And will we get the time back? All of it? Including the bit where the ref is booking the player?

And do you really wish to give refs even more power, which is what will happen since judgements about timewasting are subjective? If you do you’re crazy.

Just bring in the clock, shorten the game - ie lengthen it - to 75 minutes. Get the cards out too for persistent and extreme …..not timewasting, cos that would no longer be possible….but disruption to the rhythm of the game. Problem solved.

[Fromola]

You’re not thinking it through. Are you willing to book every player who takes more than 5 seconds to restart the game? Or should it be 7 seconds? Or maybe 8? And will we get the time back? All of it? Including the bit where the ref is booking the player?

And do you really wish to give refs even more power, which is what will happen since judgements about timewasting are subjective? If you do you’re crazy.

Just bring in the clock, shorten the game - ie lengthen it - to 75 minutes. Get the cards out too for persistent and extreme …..not timewasting, cos that would no longer be possible….but disruption to the rhythm of the game. Problem solved.

Footballers do what they can get away with. Refs are so lax on time wasting =  players systemically time waste. Players get a free kick every time they fall over = they fall over all the time. If they feel they can intimidate them into getting decisions then they will do.

As I say i'm not against a stop clock coming in, frankly it's needed. My point is if the refs did their job properly then it wouldn't be needed because players wouldn't be able to take the piss.

Most time wasting (at least beyond the closing stages of a game) is just weak refereeing. I think a stop clock is more needed for players wasting time in the final quarter or third of the game. The problem now in the PL is clubs wasting time from the first minute of the match and refs doing absolutely nothing about it. Eddie Howe basically set up his whole game plan last season to take advantage of weak refereeing. If a stop club needs to come in to stop cheats then the game will be better for it. Referees still need to step up.

[SamLad]

A stop clock is the obvious solution. It’s objective not subjective. It doesn’t make the referees even more powerful as you seem to want.

I'd give the timekeeping job to the 4th official, he can advise the ref.  refs have enough to do.

[SamLad]

That means they'll o after Klopp even more.

god help Robbo.