Author Topic: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.  (Read 10363 times)

Offline bleedsred1978

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Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« on: January 8, 2011, 12:01:03 am »
I'm sorry Kev if this should be in the other thread. I'll delete if needs be but it;s not about his future as such.

When the head of the LMA came out last night and gave his warning to premier league club owners about the perils of short termism in relation to sacking of their managers my first reaction was “Bastards, that’s some timing. Roy’s on the brink and they wheel out the big guns to back their man. Where were they when Houghton got the sack at Newcastle amongst others”?

So it got me thinking what is it about Roy that everybody likes? Why has he shown none of those likable traits while at my club? This just does not add up to me. At all.

Almost every voice who has been asked in English football has backed Roy. Most of our own ex players and club legends, Gerard Houlier, Andy Gray and co, multiple newspapers, Gary Lineker and Co, his fellow premier league managers, his former team’s captain and now the head of the LMA.

Why all the excuse making and going easy on him?

Do they see something I don’t? Do they see an old man trying his best to fill his boots in his last big chance maybe?

This is not to say that I agree with them but it did get me thinking and trying to look at things from another angle. An angle outside my biased impassioned position. As a fan I have too much anger to direct at this man who is destroying the club with his inability to do the job.

I posted in another thread this evening that up until today I have been as vociferous as almost anyone in my wanting Roy out the door asap (Although I tried to leave the abuse out of it) and I still do but my reasons have changed somewhat. What I saw as disrespect I now see in a different light. What I saw as claiming credit for the good work of others I now see as desperation. What I saw as bumbling rambling after bumbling rambling I now see as horses for courses.

Let me explain.

To me Roy has been drowning since the beginning of his tenure at our club. We know who appointed him and that it was ill judged to say the least but this is not the fault of the man himself. He has said that he viewed Liverpool as the panicle in his career and who wouldn’t take a top job if they had spent 35 years in their chosen field?

The problem Roy has is that the 35 years he has put in are not translatable to his current position. They are chalk and cheese in real terms. All his experience counts for nothing as such because he has not spent more than a year or two at any job even coming close to this level.

The result was and is inevitable. Failure.

The football his previous teams played was not transferable to Liverpool but most importantly and most damningly in so far as buying him time, is the fact that his media skills are nowhere near what he needed. He is a good talker, articulate in his musings but his problem is the content. Roy has been managing teams that are underdogs for so long that his “stock” of phrases and comments in interviews are on a different planet to what the fans of a club like Liverpool expect.

He’s desperate and in his desperation he is looking for positives he can attach to himself to try and buy more time. This comes across as stealing credit from others but desperation is a terrible situation to find yourself in. He has never been anywhere that his every word is scrutinized to such an extent and his head must be spinning at this stage. Evidently so by the absence of anything but staged comments in the last couple of days. He is out of time and he knows it.

I take no pleasure in this as an outsider watching this car crash. It’s ugly to see a man broken in front of your eyes. He is hiding it well at the moment but this must be hurting him no doubt.

As I said in the other thread I liken Roy to a boxer who has punched himself out and his hands are dropping. He knows he is about to be knocked out but pride is keeping him upright or in this case in the dugout at Liverpool Football club.

Anyway, that’s my take on him before he goes. (If he goes)

It’s ugly, it’s painful to watch, it’s destroying my club and it’s largely not his fault imo.


From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline alex.

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #1 on: January 8, 2011, 12:06:31 am »
Purslow

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #2 on: January 8, 2011, 12:07:39 am »
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #3 on: January 8, 2011, 12:07:55 am »
Roy is English. The LMA, like al things in the PL, is all about the England team. They want a good English manager to lead the team. So when yet another English manager implodes they automatically back him in the hope he will come good. They don't give a rats ass about Liverpool. All they care about is England.
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Offline Scousebeef

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #4 on: January 8, 2011, 12:08:46 am »
Those that are not in management like him because he's everybodys best friend! those in management love him because he's piss easy to beat!!
he's made a lot of friends in his mediocre 35 years at the middle!!
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Offline ricflairandy

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #5 on: January 8, 2011, 12:09:30 am »
he could walk, but he wont.

Hes been in this sitiation before and jack walker offered him a full payoff if he walked, and he refused. He is deluded and probably thinks hes doing a good job.
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Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #6 on: January 8, 2011, 12:27:05 am »
he could walk, but he wont.

Hes been in this sitiation before and jack walker offered him a full payoff if he walked, and he refused. He is deluded and probably thinks hes doing a good job.

That's a fair point but if he walks he knows he wont get another go at his age. I suppose my question/point is does he deserve the amount of shit getting flung his way at the moment.

Allthough the football has been shite of the highest order my feeling is that the strenght of ill feeling is more to do with what he says than what he does.

If we get a new manager and he says the right things I think he will be given more time to get the football side right.
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline ricflairandy

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #7 on: January 8, 2011, 12:30:17 am »
irts not a case of time. Imo there is no excuse for the team performing so badly with this set of players.

Do you think if spurs suddenly sacked rednkapp and brought in say mccarthy and they where doing this bad they wouldnt want rid?
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Offline Spongebob Redpants

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #8 on: January 8, 2011, 12:33:59 am »
Can't blame Hodgson for giving it a go - absolutely not .

The knives were always out for him from day one , but he's not done himself any favours .
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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #9 on: January 8, 2011, 12:34:26 am »
H&G, Purslow, the fans (and players?) who forced Rafa out - these are the ones most to blame for our current sorry state and that should be remembered. But Roy is certainly not blameless, and deserves most of what he is getting from the fans these days.

I don't blame Roy for having a go, but I do blame him for the way he's gone about it.
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #10 on: January 8, 2011, 12:36:02 am »
Who here wouldn't have taken the job if Purslow had of rang them?
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Offline RK7

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #11 on: January 8, 2011, 12:39:11 am »
I'm not sticking up for Roy in any shape or form but just how many clubs do you see play absolute shite with no effort then the next game after the sacking of the manager the players remember how to play and double their efforts.

The manager takes the bullet in almost every case when sometimes it's the players who should be lined up.

Offline Ultimate Bromance

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #12 on: January 8, 2011, 12:39:13 am »
Allthough the football has been shite of the highest order my feeling is that the strenght of ill feeling is more to do with what he says than what he does.

That's been my biggest gripe. I wouldn't have a problem with our current position, or how we're playing, if I felt we were in the process of building something. We're stagnating under him, hell, rapidly declining. And the constant deflection of criticism of himself, preferring to place the blame on players, fans and anyone else in his sights is disgusting. I don't care what excuses people use, the man just simply doesn't get what this club is about, and when you consider who he's replaced, it's not hard to see why he gets the level of abuse he's getting.

And no, you can't really blame him for having a go, he did a good job at Fulham last year in the Europa League, but a weak personality, an appalling away record and a runners-up medal in a cup competition shouldn't qualify you for the position of manager of LFC. So thanks Purslow, I expect, no demand, you be shown the door along with your precious LMA manager of the year associate when the time comes.
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Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #13 on: January 8, 2011, 12:39:23 am »
irts not a case of time. Imo there is no excuse for the team performing so badly with this set of players.

Do you think if spurs suddenly sacked rednkapp and brought in say mccarthy and they where doing this bad they wouldnt want rid?


I get your point and to answer your question I guess that yes , they would want him gone in that scenario.

But if Roy's teams play a certain way and have done throughout his career and the players we have dont suit this style then in theory he should be given money and time to as he puts it "shape the team in his image".

What I'm saying is that the problem here is not Roy or his methods.

The problem is that the club picked a manager who's methods are totally unsuited to the club and that is the clubs fault imo.
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline Ziggy09

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #14 on: January 8, 2011, 12:40:19 am »
Roy is English. The LMA, like al things in the PL, is all about the England team. They want a good English manager to lead the team. So when yet another English manager implodes they automatically back him in the hope he will come good. They don't give a rats ass about Liverpool. All they care about is England.

Spot on.
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Offline Ziggy09

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #15 on: January 8, 2011, 12:41:00 am »
We should remember Roy didnt ruin his career overnight as some say. Its taken him 35 years to do it!
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Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #16 on: January 8, 2011, 12:41:25 am »
Can't blame Hodgson for giving it a go - absolutely not .

The knives were always out for him from day one , but he's not done himself any favours .

I don't think the knives were out from day one. I think a lot felt he wasn't good enough for the tenure, however they were prepared to give him a go, as that's what we do. Does that classify as having the knives out? I don't know.

The guy lost me in the wake of the Northampton debacle. Headhunting your own players in public while the issue of Ferguson's comments about a "cheating Torres" were still awaiting reply.

Offline Hunter Thompson

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #17 on: January 8, 2011, 12:43:48 am »
Like a greedy child whose eyes were bigger than his stomach, Roy bit off more than he could chew.
« Last Edit: January 8, 2011, 12:47:46 am by Hunter Thompson »

Offline Chakan

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #18 on: January 8, 2011, 12:44:53 am »
No-one is blaming him for taking the job, it's everything after that.

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #19 on: January 8, 2011, 12:45:13 am »
That's been my biggest gripe. I wouldn't have a problem with our current position, or how we're playing, if I felt we were in the process of building something. We're stagnating under him, hell, rapidly declining. And the constant deflection of criticism of himself, preferring to place the blame on players, fans and anyone else in his sights is disgusting. I don't care what excuses people use, the man just simply doesn't get what this club is about, and when you consider who he's replaced, it's not hard to see why he gets the level of abuse he's getting.

And no, you can't really blame him for having a go, he did a good job at Fulham last year in the Europa League, but a weak personality, an appalling away record and a runners-up medal in a cup competition shouldn't qualify you for the position of manager of LFC. So thanks Purslow, I expect, no demand, you be shown the door along with your precious LMA manager of the year associate when the time comes.

Yep that is the crux of the problem i think.

I think Roy is building something or at least would build something given money and time but the issue is that nobody wants him to build it because 1, we wont like the look of it once it's done and 2,we know we will have to rip it all down and start again.

He's just the wrong manager at the wrong club but again this is not his own doing and we are expecting him to be something he isnt which isnt fair on him or us.
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #20 on: January 8, 2011, 12:46:34 am »
No-one is blaming him for taking the job, it's everything after that.

:)

But can you blame someone for not being able to do something they simply cannot do?
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline majestic_11

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #21 on: January 8, 2011, 12:46:44 am »

Allthough the football has been shite of the highest order my feeling is that the strenght of ill feeling is more to do with what he says than what he does.

If we get a new manager and he says the right things I think he will be given more time to get the football side right.

Its everything to be honest mate. Rafa still had the backing of the majority of fans, many wanted to give him a chance to put right what went wrong last year. The fans were not happy in the manner that he was sacked. Out of managers the club interviewed Roy was seen by large the least appealing for the post.
Everyone does or should hate purslow and Roy was his appointment and it was not a football based choice. 

The thing that rattles me the most is this star players an b team bollocks! Ask king kenny what it was like to be the star of the team back in the glory days and just wait and count before he shoots u down in flames! The club is all about one and it has a winning mentality! Two shankly quotes 'first is first second is nowhere' and 'you must believe you are the best then prove that you are'! Two massive quotes that signifies LFC. Does Roy embrace that? Does he hell he talks about not having the right squad, he talks up the oppostion and he talks about not having the resources to put his stamp on the squad.

I haven't even mentioned his static don't press in their half solid 4-4 fucking 2! Sorry i cannot and will not fault the man for giving it his best, i posted before the season started with the right believe and the right addittions we could challange as the core of the squad was as good as anything, i didn't think anyone could damage that dream so badly!

Roy you are destroying people's pleasure, please leave our club, i will respect you for having some dignity!

Offline REDbrown

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #22 on: January 8, 2011, 12:47:16 am »
Those that are not in management like him because he's everybodys best friend! those in management love him because he's piss easy to beat!!
he's made a lot of friends in his mediocre 35 years at the middle!!
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #23 on: January 8, 2011, 12:49:14 am »
Roy gets almost universal support in the media because he obviously is a decent enough guy.

He's over-reached himself with the Liverpool position, that's the tragedy in all this.

I hope, as he leaves over the next few days, there will be dignity maintained, from the club, from the fans and from Roy himself.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #24 on: January 8, 2011, 12:49:15 am »
:)

But can you blame someone for not being able to do something they simply cannot do?

Nobody is telling him how to conduct himself in interviews, no-one is telling him to blame everyone else but himself, no-one is telling to smile after every defeat, no-one is making him tactically inept,  no-one is telling him that you need more than 1 tactic in a game. That's all Roy.

Offline Bangin Them In

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #25 on: January 8, 2011, 12:49:21 am »
Roy is, and always was, Roy

That's who he has been for 35 years or whatever, and what he is now.

We saw him last season, with all the restrictions his style brings and still took him as manager. It really isn't his fault, if any British manager is approached for the LFC job, with all our history and tradition they will accept, no doubt.

Down to the selectors, not the selected.
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Offline Bangin Them In

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #26 on: January 8, 2011, 12:50:08 am »
Nobodies telling him how to he has to conduct himself in interviews, no-one is telling him to blame everyone else but himself, no-one is telling to smile after every defeat, no-one is making him tactically inept,  no-one is telling him that you need more than 1 tactic in a game. That's all Roy.

Yes, and that's what I'm saying, he has always been like that.
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Offline GorstStreetBoy

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #27 on: January 8, 2011, 12:50:52 am »
Ive never seen a problem with the 'This job was my reward for 35 years of hard work' comment in itself. But it seems he views the job as an end in itself and not particularly as a platform to achieve any sort of success or even to achieve the minimum standards required. He wants the kudos of managing a big club and also wants everyone associated with the club to be happy with pottering about in midtable.

His deeply entrenched mindset was all wrong from the start.
« Last Edit: January 8, 2011, 01:00:38 am by GorstStreetBoy »
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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #28 on: January 8, 2011, 12:51:58 am »
Yes, and that's what I'm saying, he has always been like that.

Still his fault though mate.
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Offline Kaiserred2012

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #29 on: January 8, 2011, 12:53:16 am »
In a nutshell, dont dislike Roy Hodgson, too big a job.

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #30 on: January 8, 2011, 12:55:36 am »
I saw the article in question on the guardian and I got really pissed off. In the real world, if a manager is failing and sales have declined dramatically, he would be sacked. He would also be sacked possibly for unacceptable comments about/to the staff and he probably would be on his way out if the company is losing money in the time he is manager.

I don't see how the LMA deserve special treatment. Roy has not only taken the club to new lows but has consistently blamed everyone but himself for this folly we find ourselves in. Its EMBARRASSING.

He should have been sacked in November.

He is lucky to have lasted this long.
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Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #31 on: January 8, 2011, 12:55:59 am »
Nobody is telling him how to conduct himself in interviews, no-one is telling him to blame everyone else but himself, no-one is telling to smile after every defeat, no-one is making him tactically inept,  no-one is telling him that you need more than 1 tactic in a game. That's all Roy.

Indeed it is Chakan mate. I agree 100%

The only one of those that he wasnt doing when he came here was blaming the players because at that level he didnt need to as they were not expected to perform at the highest level every week.

All the rest is his MO and has been for as long as he has been a manager.

If someone hires you for a job and you perform as you did in the past then you would have to think "Well this is what I was doing when they asked me to come here so I will continue with doing the things ive always done. That's what got me the job in the first place"


CP fucked up by hiring him in the first place. He has just maintained his methods.
« Last Edit: January 8, 2011, 01:01:32 am by bleedsred1978 »
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline ricflairandy

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #32 on: January 8, 2011, 12:57:38 am »

I get your point and to answer your question I guess that yes , they would want him gone in that scenario.

But if Roy's teams play a certain way and have done throughout his career and the players we have dont suit this style then in theory he should be given money and time to as he puts it "shape the team in his image".

What I'm saying is that the problem here is not Roy or his methods.

The problem is that the club picked a manager who's methods are totally unsuited to the club and that is the clubs fault imo.

The root of the problem is the picking of the manager. But the current problem is Roy and his methods/lack of managerial skill.
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #33 on: January 8, 2011, 12:57:51 am »
Roy is English. The LMA, like al things in the PL, is all about the England team. They want a good English manager to lead the team. So when yet another English manager implodes they automatically back him in the hope he will come good. They don't give a rats ass about Liverpool. All they care about is England.

On the contrary, the PL's backing for England has been lamentable - it's a members club, no more no less. The LMA is primarily a distress association for sacked managers, again a members club.

The surprise is that so little has been done to nurture and encourage English managers - not how much. That beyond Roy the choice of English candidates is so thin only reinforces that, widen it to British, and it doesn't get much better.

No you can't blame Roy for taking it. You can blame G&H and now FSG for allowing a power vacuum to operate into which Roy has stumbled.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #34 on: January 8, 2011, 01:00:23 am »
Indeed it is Chakan mate. I agree 100%

The only one of those that he wasnt doing when he came here was blaming the players because at that level he didnt need to as they were not expected to perform at the highest level every week.

All the rest is his MO and has been for as long as he has been a manager.

If someone hires you for a job and you perform as you did in the past then you would have to think "Well this is what I was doing when they asked me to come here so I will continue with doing the things ive always done. That's what got me the job in the first place"

We fucked up by hiring him in the first place. He has just maintained his methods.


No doubt he wouldn't have got a sniff of the job had the club not been fucked from the inside out. No chance.

But here's the crux, when you are hired to do a job above your station, you adapt and try your hardest and damnest to do it! I don't feel he's tried his hardest, and I don't feel like he's done all humanly possible (in his power) to try and make the roll his own.

He's never said "I can do better, I will try harder, I have been in the wrong" if he did it would show he had more to give and to try. I blame him for that.

Offline JK-3

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #35 on: January 8, 2011, 01:00:38 am »
The reason is, outside the job and when he's having success at a club he actually cares about he probably presents himself as a likeable person. But as a failing manager he is heartless and couldn't care less about the damage he is doing to the club and is completely ignorant towards being out of his depth and how bad a manager he can be and essentially has no respect for Liverpool FC. We see and hate the manager side because thats what he is to us, nothing more, but to other managers, LMA, Fulham fans etc. he is a colleague/liked figure so they dont see the idiot we do. But this doesn't justify them complementing him in any way, they need to open their eyes and see how he's single handedly wrecked a wounded/recovering club and think about the unacceptable way he has reacted to it.  :no
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Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #36 on: January 8, 2011, 01:00:58 am »
We, WE ?!?  It was a guy that just about brings similar bad taste in mouth as mentioning previous owner, wasn't it ?  Could say He or They but not WE

Good shout..
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline Strummer77

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #37 on: January 8, 2011, 01:02:14 am »
Don't blame him for giving it a go for one moment. Hell, I know if I was asked tomorrow I'd do it. I was determined to give him the support from the off, but ultimately he just didn't make the grade. I don't blame him i blame the man who sacked Rafa- C Purslow. When push comes to shove he came in during one of the most difficult periods in our history and struggled badly. He said the wrong things, played the wrong way and got it all wrong. But he didn't try to fail, he tried to succeed. No shame in that.

He's obviously a fairly good manager. Just not good enough for us. No shame in that and for all the negative things that have happened and the negative words I've said, I wish him well in his future endeavours. The problem is Roy aims for the ceiling when we're used to aiming at the sky.

I'm sure his pay-off wil make up for things mind. This time let's pay the money, show the ambition and get the right man.

Offline Mad Men

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #38 on: January 8, 2011, 01:03:17 am »
On one hand, the LMA want him to be given a fair go. On the other hand, if he fails, the club, supporters, the finances suffer. BADLY. But he walks away with 3 or more million quid.

Yes, that's VERY VERY Fair.

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Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Can we really blame him for giving it a go.
« Reply #39 on: January 8, 2011, 01:07:10 am »
No doubt he wouldn't have got a sniff of the job had the club not been fucked from the inside out. No chance.

But here's the crux, when you are hired to do a job above your station, you adapt and try your hardest and damnest to do it! I don't feel he's tried his hardest, and I don't feel like he's done all humanly possible (in his power) to try and make the roll his own.

He's never said "I can do better, I will try harder, I have been in the wrong" if he did it would show he had more to give and to try. I blame him for that.


Ya i know what you mean but he is a 63 year old man.

Old dog new tricks and all that.

He isnt going to change now , at this stage of his career.

He only knows one way. That way isnt good enough for us I think we all agree but I no longer buy into blaming him in the main.

CP is the one who brought this upon us all and that man is still in there.
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.