Topic: Reality Check

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Reality check?

We've got fucked owners intent on ruining us, we have no money, no new stadium, we're selling more than buying, we're not in the CL, our stars don't give a fuck and want out, we're playing like shite, we score goals at random not from dominating, we're made to look shit by crap teams, the media got shut of the best manager we had in years, the Mancs are playing shite but still winning, and Chelsea are posting rugby scores for the fucking fun of it.

To top it all off, half of our fans think the situation is just fucking peachy because the ex-player pundits said an English manager, man-to-man marking and some good old 4-4-2 will sort it all out.

I'm sorry, but i don't feel too chippy at the moment old bean, and drawing brightly coloured rainbows over the problem isn't going to fix our situation now is it?

We need less tolerance of the situation and more demanding to know what the fuck is going on.

I think that sometimes the way the message is getting put around on here may seem like it's continuing into the main fanbase, but it's not. There's what? 38,000 on here, now only small percentages of that number are possibly active on a regular basis, and that means we represent a small percentage of the total matchgoing fanbase. For that reason alone we should be shouting all the louder so the delusional fans, who think our only problem is on the pitch is because we've had a tough start, can start to get the message into their thick fucking skulls.

The reality check we all need is, that even if things start to get better on the pitch, we have still got those wankers running the place (into the ground) and that means any momentum we build will be shortlived as they'll be there at every transfer window waiting to sell off the clubs assets and undercut any potential for success.

A final reminder to the comatose on here, WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[Mark Walters]

the difference here is that we were previously expected to be pushing for a title challenge. nowadays, hanging around in 6th, pushing for 4th is accepted as the best we can hope for. that is a bitter pill to swallow, and will take some getting used to. it seems that some people find it easier to accept than others.

positivity is looking at this situation and saying "its early doors, we've had some tough games, we can still challenge for the league"

the OP is just accepting mediocrity.

You know I was thinking this morning that I should start a post on accepting mediocrity because while the minimum requirement is still 4th place, a lot of people seem to think that getting any sort of European place this season is good enough.  It really is not and the players that were good enough to get us to 2nd in the league around 18 months ago should be good enough to get us into the top 4 - just as they should've been good enough last season.

If we put the blame down to Rafa for not doing so because some sort of rot had set in, then a fresh approach should be all that is required.  But so far we've stunk and I can't believe that it's because the players are suddenly shit. (Well, Konchesky and Poulsen might be but I'm going to reserve judgment until the end of the season!)

[Lucas21]

I'm not having a go at Roy but ALOT of the negativity starts with him, he's more or less saying were shite all season, we wont win, dont expect to win, he made West Brom sound like Barca. Fergie says Torres is a cheat, Hodgson should bite back and say what does that make Nani, instead he accepts it, doesnt want to go there. Negativity starts at the top and filters through, there seems to be no motivation from him. My opinion only hope he turns it around and we can get behind him.

[SkinHimHesShite]

I'm not accepting mediocrity. I'm accepting the fact that our owners are bleeding us dry, spending nothing. While other such as Tottenham, Man City & even Villa are outspending and overtaking us and until this is dealt with we cannot expect to push for major honors. I believe Liverpool Football Club can do anything but this season we cannot EXPECT to. The owners must be gotten rid of first.

But despite this I feel Hodgson has made some good signings and is starting to get his methods across. It will be a gradual process but I believe he is doing a decent job and we should back the team. I'm not backing the ownership as others are suggesting.

yeah i know mate, the owners are clearly the clubs problem at the highest level, and i cant understand why people suggest youre backing the ownership.

at the highest level, we know its all gone tits up, but on the pitch, i think we should be peforming a lot better than we are. we got turned over vs city, totally hammered. united result could have been the same, easilly. defensive tactics in those games might be justified, but then to play exactly the same way at home to west brom was unforgivable.

even with 4 new players, the tactics of hodgson are so negative, its as if we've gone back in time to houllier's reign, only worse. the fact that city and villa are outspending us has nothing to do with our performances.  expectations are high, but this is liverpool, not some mid table outfit like his old team. if you come to a club like liverpool, you live up to the expecations, you don't drag them down to a level you're comfortable at!

so while i agree the owners are c*nts, and we have also had some tough games to start the season, we have also put in 5 absolutely shit performances with stale defensive tactics and only obtained 5 points. we also sit below wolves. even if i thought backwash in a pintglass made it half full, i'd still expect us to be above wolves after 5 games.

[astowell1]

If we'd of had Chelsea's start, we'd at least be in the top 4....

If we had Chelsea's start we'd be top of the table

[redbyrdz]

Its not about the results, its about everything else. As much as it hurts, a defeat at OT is always likely. We all know the off the pitch shite is getting worse by the minute. But at the moment, there isn't even anything on the pitch that makes me believe in better times. We play absolutely horrendous shite stone-age football. The manager doesn't seem to think he needs to change that in any way. It's not a case of key players missing, they are all playing and they don't even seem to sulk that much. You might argue that boring football is how league winners play, and it doesn't matter how we look as long as we win. But so far, hard games or not, the results have not gone our way. We play shit, we don't look like improving, and we're losing.

[kopilot]

Amen brother. Good to see a bit of positivity.

[Rusty]

If we'd of had Chelsea's start, we'd at least be in the top 4....

OP is pretty much spot on

Not if we put in the same performances as we did for the first 5 games we have played.

We'd be lucky to be top-half.

[Heathcote_Simpleton]

i think a lot of the negativity derives from the performance on the pitch as much as the actual results.

Spot on.

We are going to concede a lot of goals.  The set up does not work for us.

[vicgill]

We've had a difficult start to teh campaign in terms of fixtures - that much is true. But if you're happy with the performance yesterday, or indeed any of our League performances so far this season, then we must be watching very different matches.

I don't think people are pissed off so much with the results. As you say - 3 aways (including 2 very good teams in ManU and City and a hard to beat team in Birmingham) and a tough home match against Arsenal, as well a the West Brom match - which as you pointed out, we won.

However in none of these matches - including the West brom match, have we assered ourselves or looked to control the game (even against West Brom). If we'd arrived at this set of results by playing good, positive football, and trying to control the games and simply been unlucky, then I'd have les of a problem accepting the results. As it is, we haven't been unlucky, we've been poor.

I am not a Roy basher but i agree with everything you say, as has been said, the next 5 games are important for our confidence, let's all hope we get some decent football and good results

[CHOPPER]

From the reality check you seek from our Internet fans to the financial cheque from our sham owners, they will both bounce.

What we stand for ripped apart, undermining the manager, sound familiar?

They're both as bad as one another.

[The Jackal]

I am not a Roy basher but i agree with everything you say, as has been said, the next 5 games are important for our confidence, let's all hope we get some decent football and good results

The next 5 are really important. I'm not expecting an easy ride in any of them though. The Sunderland match will tell us a lot. We're on a similar run of form to them at the moment (in fact they're a point better off after the weekend), and put in a decent display against Arsenal (albeit at home). On paper we should beat them, but if we employ the kind of passive tactics that we have been so far this season we could struggle. They've actually got decent forward players and goal-scorers, but a dodgy defence. if we can pressure their defence and midfield and make them make mistakes then we should win, but if we sit back and let them have the ball with no pressure in defensive areas then we're not exploiting their weaknesses and it evens the playing field a lot. hmm.. we shall see what happens on Saturday...

[The Jackal]

From the reality check you seek from our Internet fans to the financial cheque from our sham owners, they will both bounce.

What we stand for ripped apart, undermining the manager, sound familiar?

They're both as bad as one another.

there is a difference between undermining the manager and voicing concerns about him, Chopper.

No one on the terraces is shouting 'Hodgson out' (as far as I am aware..)

[Red-juvenated]

Early days - Theres a lot more to come from Roy and his troops.

Have a feeling ther'll be more good days than bad, and we'll only really start enjoying them when the off-the-pitch issues are sorted.

Time to make a list for Santa

[rick287]

Reality check?

We've got fucked owners intent on ruining us, we have no money, no new stadium, we're selling more than buying, we're not in the CL, our stars don't give a fuck and want out, we're playing like shite, we score goals at random not from dominating, we're made to look shit by crap teams, the media got shut of the best manager we had in years, the Mancs are playing shite but still winning, and Chelsea are posting rugby scores for the fucking fun of it.

To top it all off, half of our fans think the situation is just fucking peachy because the ex-player pundits said an English manager, man-to-man marking and some good old 4-4-2 will sort it all out.

I'm sorry, but i don't feel too chippy at the moment old bean, and drawing brightly coloured rainbows over the problem isn't going to fix our situation now is it?

We need less tolerance of the situation and more demanding to know what the fuck is going on.

This the absolute top post of the season so far. It sums up everything I'm feeling when I start to think about LFC, and even football in general. If you're out there, reading along to this post and not nodding your head then you're deluded, plain and simple.

[scutty]

I think that sometimes the way the message is getting put around on here may seem like it's continuing into the main fanbase, but it's not. There's what? 38,000 on here, now only small percentages of that number are possibly active on a regular basis, and that means we represent a small percentage of the total matchgoing fanbase. For that reason alone we should be shouting all the louder so the delusional fans, who think our only problem is on the pitch is because we've had a tough start, can start to get the message into their thick fucking skulls.

The reality check we all need is, that even if things start to get better on the pitch, we have still got those wankers running the place (into the ground) and that means any momentum we build will be shortlived as they'll be there at every transfer window waiting to sell off the clubs assets and undercut any potential for success.

A final reminder to the comatose on here, WAKE THE FUCK UP.

I swear by Almighty God, That although my post doesn't mentioning takeovers boardroom, or even the owners, It doesn't mean I don't care, so help me God.

[cornelius]

I stick by what I said at the start of the season...we'll do better than last season.

[otottottffn]

Great to see some positivity as a change from the usual doom and gloom.  I can't exactly say I'm confident about this season, but having said that, given our fixture list at the start of the season, new players and manager, and other factors affecting the club at the moment I am not going to get at all despondent based on what has happened so far.

If I want to read anything into the league table so far, I'd rather like to read soemthing into the current relegation positions.  I wish.

[JovaJova]

Fully agree with the OP. Olivier Holt actually wrote a good article in the Mirror today along similar lines.

[horne]

years ago,i could spot an evertonian a mile off by the way he talked,now its not as easy....be warned

[Gnurglan]

Yes, it's early days. What worries me is we haven't played well apart from the Arsenal game. Our brand of football has not been the best. I'm not surprised that many are already questioning Roy. For me, it's not so much about Roy. He's in a very, very difficult situation. Was from day one. He hasn't helped himself with some of his comments.
 
Our owners are trying to fuck us over once again, we don't know if we can trust the board at all, Roy is about to realise what a mess he's entered, our players look like they want to be somewhere else and the fans are up in arms about the whole situation. Roy needs to win games. Win games and we can close a couple of fronts in the war. That's the only way to survival. It's unfair, yes, but in this mess, Roy needs to be exceptional. He needs to drop the tea cup and fight his part in this war. I reckon this is why everyone is upset with his lack of defence for Torres, his reference of "sir" Alex, his talk about how difficult Birmingham are etc. So far there's no indication Roy is able to fight his part.

You just wait, soon enough the media will pick up on this and we'll have an even greater circus. The storm hasn't even started yet for Roy.

[Mutton Geoff]

Roy was supposed to bring improvement, wasn't he?

not in five prem games though?

[Nebelkoala]

Yes, our fixture schedule was tough.

Maybe we should just wait a couple of days..There's still enough time to panic IF we lose against Sunderland at home next weekend.

If that happens, we can't make up these excuses anymore.

[cracka]

Cant see the big elephant in the room? Its disguised as agger on the bench.Until a boss hass balls to drop dinosuars than the chain will always break at said link.

[12Kings]

I don't give a fuck about the football at the moment to be honest. There's far more important things playing out off the pitch to worry about. WHo gives a fuck about this season really? I don't. Reality check is, there is nothing to be positive about. Seriously get real you lot. The Football means nothing at the moment. If you cared about this club, you'd surely have this view.

[CHOPPER]

there is a difference between undermining the manager and voicing concerns about him, Chopper.

No one on the terraces is shouting 'Hodgson out' (as far as I am aware..)

Constructive critisism is one thing, just plain get him out after a dozen games is a fucking joke, Jackal.

There are a hell of a lot on the Internet, you know, the Uber-fan, who are.

[Seebab]

Last year, it was similar. We started with a lot of negativity even before we kicked the ball. Alonso left, Arbeloa left, Hyypia left, no one knew about Aquilani, owners same old same old. We weren't positive at all, and the players and manager were the same.

The negativity is worse than last year for sure but it's what I expected to be honest. I watch games with much less passion and when we were 2-2 at Old Trafford, I was wondering how the hell it was 2-2 and expecting them to score more afterwards; not we're going to beat these because our attitude has been excellent enough for us to come back and win.

[Dabudah]

Hate being negative about the club but at the moment I struggle to find anything that inspires any confidence.

Our performances so far have been appaling,  We made West Brom who are normally whipping boys look like a top 4 side,  Birmingham looked like Barca and when it came to Man C and Man U we may as well have been playing an all time 11 brazillian squad.   We started playing route one football trying the long balls constantly with no success,  if we keep the ball on the deck we can't string more then 3 forward passses together.  We don't close down the opposition, we don't run at defences, I've seen more movement with a subutteo team when we do attack and we most definately don't make the opposition keepers earn their salary.  And to cap everything off we've started using last season as a benchmark for success despite it being our worst finish in 10 years, unfortunately if you set your targets and aspirations against shit performance then at best you can hope to achieve is mediocrity!! 

Everything surrounding our performance on the pitch is the responsibility of Hodgson.  Roy taking the managers job at LFC is like having Blackpool in the prem, you hope they do well but deep down you know they are way out of their depth and the only thing that put them there is one miracle season which they're not likely to repeat for a long time.  At the moment I'm giving Hodgson my support, I don't think he is the right man for the job but I would love him to prove me wrong and I am holding back the 'I told you so' for a few more games yet.  Hopefully over the next few games we can build a good series of results and kickstart our season as I don't think we can survive many more performances like the ones we've provided so far this season without there being some form of major backlash.

[nico 8]

I don't think he's accepting mediocrity. He's accepting reality.  It's been a tough start and let's let the season bed in before we all lose our heads.  Wait until Christmas time to judge.

Reality set in 3-4 years ago but too many were blind and some have now only smelt the coffee.
"Wait until Christmas"-- what for? Santa is not coming.We have been waiting for 3 years now.

[Junkle]

Our play has  been very depressing. It's so depressing that a friend of mine bought me a manu beer mug. What do I do with it. I use it to feed my dogs.

Things are just damn depressing. The four players brought in are so far not giving us anything we did not already have. They are definitely not an improvement on Lucas, babel or even  ouir departed Italian. In fact, I have watched all the games we have played thus far. One thing I can bet on is that very soon [by Christmas] Lucas will be in the starting line up.

Over and above all no one is talking about man or zonal marking at set pieces. So far man marking has not produced the desired results e.g. 1st goal against Manu. Even TV commentators instead of complaining about zonal marking we have employed so far with not much success they decided to have Torres as their scape goat. Anyway, he put himself in that bad position is so many ways.

[Kopite7]

I don't think he's accepting mediocrity. He's accepting reality. 

There is no reality just 3 games into a season. Give it time. Let Roy settle in as well as our new transfers. I think we'll be OK by mid next month.

[Jonny J]

There is no reality just 3  FIVE games into a season. Give it time. Let Roy settle in as well as our new transfers. I think we'll be OK by mid next month.

I'm not so sure, but 5 games in is no time to start knee-jerking to whats happening on the pitch - agreed.

[Kopite7]

I'm not so sure, but 5 games in is no time to start knee-jerking to whats happening on the pitch - agreed.

I stand corrected. Cheers.

[Wesley Pipes]

It's not the results on their own that are worrying....it's the way we're tactically set up in those games that's of concern.  When it became clear Roy was to become the next Liverpool manager, people looked back at how he set up the Fulham side....a deep defence, direct balls, no pressure when the opposition has the ball etc...  A lot thought "Liverpool are a different side, with better players....he'll play differently with Gerrard and Torres at his disposal...", but so far (and to be fair, it's only been a few games) we look like a carbon copy of his Fulham side.  We don't look like scoring, and we look like we're going to conceed at any minute.

The question is, is the five or ten minute spell we had yesterday where we looked competent Roy's ultimate tactical aim for the side.  At least we'd be slightly dangerous, and though I doubt the football would be much fun to watch we'd win a few games....or is the other 75 minutes of play the style that Roy actually prefers, because we'll struggle to finish top half playing like that.

Hit the nail on the head mate, this is my concern too.

I still think we have a great side, not awesome but still pretty damn good and if he is going to play that counter footy he needs to use our greatest counter assets, like Babel for instance.

Did like the N'gog move, straightened us up no end. Torres really needs support and if he is going to push that many back he needs players with the pace to get up around him.

[xerxes1]

Roy was supposed to bring improvement, wasn't he?

Roy inherited a disillusioned, demoralised side whose final day achievement was to fail to score against a dismal Hull side. In the summer we lost a genuine world class player in Masch, and a fine player in Yosser, banked some cash and spent a fraction of the money on inferior players. That's the reality.

[mercury]

Yes, it's early days. What worries me is we haven't played well apart from the Arsenal game. Our brand of football has not been the best. I'm not surprised that many are already questioning Roy. For me, it's not so much about Roy. He's in a very, very difficult situation. Was from day one. He hasn't helped himself with some of his comments.
 
Our owners are trying to fuck us over once again, we don't know if we can trust the board at all, Roy is about to realise what a mess he's entered, our players look like they want to be somewhere else and the fans are up in arms about the whole situation. Roy needs to win games. Win games and we can close a couple of fronts in the war. That's the only way to survival. It's unfair, yes, but in this mess, Roy needs to be exceptional. He needs to drop the tea cup and fight his part in this war. I reckon this is why everyone is upset with his lack of defence for Torres, his reference of "sir" Alex, his talk about how difficult Birmingham are etc. So far there's no indication Roy is able to fight his part.

You just wait, soon enough the media will pick up on this and we'll have an even greater circus. The storm hasn't even started yet for Roy.

Absolutely spot on. 

[Cunny Funt]

We should have a dedicated positivity thread, so we can only post positive things. Any negative posts get removed.

[Jonny J]

We should have a dedicated positivity thread, so we can only post positive things. Any negative posts get removed.

FFS cant you see we're in crisis here?

[The Red artist.]

Agree with the op. Taking everything into concideration i think we're doing ok. Lets get one thing staright here, the players are as pissed off as we are, moreso really as its their very careers on the line here. If anyone thinks the ownership bollocks is not affecting the players then they are not thinking staright.

Roy needs our support more than anything, next to this all he needs is time. We must be patient and look at the bigger picture.

[The Jackal]

Constructive critisism is one thing, just plain get him out after a dozen games is a fucking joke, Jackal.

There are a hell of a lot on the Internet, you know, the Uber-fan, who are.

yeah. there are some on the internet. I think a lot of it is frustration. As I've stated, I have my own doubts about Hodgson but I'm certainly not suggesting that he should go. Not yet. However I don't see people 'undermining' him as you've suggested - there's no orchestrated campaign to get him the sack - just people venting on internet forums. I think there's a difference between the two.