Topic: Lucas in Brazil Squad

[timmyonions]

Anyone watch interview with Spearing? Someone said he mentioned Lucas?

Ya he said "It Lucas if i`ll be fighting with Leiva for a centre midfield spot when stevie returns"

[Sangria]

Yes it was. But I don't think it was the only one, or even a huge one in relation to the other problems we had last season. In relation to assists - I guess you could argue the same about Alonso - he didn't have many assists did he in 2008/2009 (I don't think purely looking at that should be used to make a judgement on how 'creative' a player is anyway but that's another debate)? Yet he was our best player. Now when Lucas played last season, it was always going to be difficult to do what Alonso did and to be fair, he's not exactly the same type of player. That's where the lack of movement comes in because Lucas is more dynamic than Alonso and got forward more than Alonso did the year before. If we had our other players performing well and performing in a similar vein, then it wouldn't have been nearly as problematic but we didn't and we  suffered as a result. Like I said though, it wasn't the only problem last season.

See that Wolves goal again for a microcosm of what Lucas is about. There have been other games too, where the combination of Lucas-Aurelio-Agger has been present, and they've also had examples of this kind of progressive play. One example that particularly caught my eye wasn't a goal, and I can't remember which game it was from. Lucas had the ball in midfield, looking up for options. Aurelio had somehow worked himself into position around 10 yards ahead of him, so Lucas exchanged passes, and suddenly Kuyt was clear on the edge of the opposition area. There wasn't any fancy running, or spraying the ball 30 yards to the wing, but the play suddenly changed pace with a couple of short-ish passes, and the opposition defenders were left bewildered and trying to catch up with what was going on.

Now imagine if the whole team are able to do that.

[Hazell]

Agree that confidence and more experience is in part the reason for his improvement, but even last year, when he didn't have as much, I believe he performed far better as the covering midfielder. I rate players like Aquilani (when he plays like against Wolves, Portsmouth and A. Madrid) and Gerrard higher than someone like Masch, and perhaps it's just easier to play with that type, but even when those two beside him didn't have the best of games, Lucas performed in his role, and I don't think we really miss out by not having him further forward.

He's not had a prolonged spell in the position (though he did it more often last season) and given his passing ability and movement off the ball, I think he'd benefit us playing there (again though, we'd slightly lose out what he does at present).

It's not a huge differance in average position, or responsibilities, playing as the more attacking midfielder, but I still think you need a wider range of passing and/or more confidence in attacking areas than Lucas has. In the position he plays now, I'm convinced he's among the best in the league, probably the best right now (Mikel, Carrick, Song, Huddlestone/Palacios, De Jong/Barry is the competiton), but I think the likes of Modric, Scholes (perhaps not any more, but he was the best midfielder in the league not long ago), Wilshere/Ramsey (perhaps not yet, but I believe they will), Toure, and Essien all have more about them. They are very different players, who play in different ways, but whether it's pace, strenght, confidence and forward runs (Toure, Essien), or technique, vision, and passing (Modric, Scholes, the Arsenal kids), they do more, influence the play more, than what I've seen Lucas do in the same role.

I think I tend to rate his passing more than you do. He's an excellent passer and playing higher up the pitch would allow him a greater opportunity to be more 'creative' with him being closer to the forward players. I think he is like a Ramsey or a Wilshire where he's able to link up with the forward players and move the ball around (I've always felt he'd fit in well at Arsenal anyway) or even be like Scholes who is probably the best midfielder I've seen play in England - both are intelligent in their use of the ball and movement and make good runs - with Scholes being so adept at the latter - and given the encouragement to do so, Lucas can be that kind of player. Modric is a different type of player as are the likes of Essien or Toure and have attributes that Lucas doesn't. But he's not been used there much so we haven't seen what he can do there. It doesn't look like we will either given our hunt for Adam in January.

In short, the opportunity cost for me, is losing a clever, strong, accurate and quick passer, and great reader of the game at the base of midfield, for too little attacking presence if we move him. He can still make the occasional forward run and hopefully add a few goals (needs loads more confidence in his finishing though) - especially in Kenny's system and with a new passing midfielder beside him - but that is something the best 'DMs' always had. Keane and Petit, for example, didn't score a huge number of goals, but 3-4 a season, and could get forward when the gap opened up infront of them. I firmly believe Lucas should keep moulding his game after that type of player, and he'll only get better with age. Playing him further forward, and will miss his best qualities.

Some of those attributes you describe would be valuable higher up the pitch too. What he can bring further forward in my view wouldn't be ''too little attacking presence" but rather qualities with which I'd want to see us play - quick passing and good movement. And playing him in that sort of role would actually bring out those qualities further as opposed to us missing out on them. With him being so adept at the role he presently employs, we'd miss him there which we'd obviously need to get a replacement for. But he could really shine there, cause problems for the opposition and give the likes of Gerrard, Suarez and Meireles the opportunity to do the same.

Ideally, which Kenny hasn't been averse to using, in a kind of 433 formation in which Lucas would be the 'middle' of the 3 would benefit us in an attacking sense and would allow Lucas to utilise more of his attributes, particularly if we use attacking fullbacks. That's what I'd like to see next season.

[Hazell]

See that Wolves goal again for a microcosm of what Lucas is about. There have been other games too, where the combination of Lucas-Aurelio-Agger has been present, and they've also had examples of this kind of progressive play. One example that particularly caught my eye wasn't a goal, and I can't remember which game it was from. Lucas had the ball in midfield, looking up for options. Aurelio had somehow worked himself into position around 10 yards ahead of him, so Lucas exchanged passes, and suddenly Kuyt was clear on the edge of the opposition area. There wasn't any fancy running, or spraying the ball 30 yards to the wing, but the play suddenly changed pace with a couple of short-ish passes, and the opposition defenders were left bewildered and trying to catch up with what was going on.

Now imagine if the whole team are able to do that.

That's exactly what I want. And with Lucas linking in with our more 'attacking' players, it's more likely to happen than it would in a deeper role.

[Hazell]

Is scots v brazil on telly?

ITV on Sunday.

[Sangria]

Ideally, which Kenny hasn't been averse to using, in a kind of 433 formation in which Lucas would be the 'middle' of the 3 would benefit us in an attacking sense and would allow Lucas to utilise more of his attributes, particularly if we use attacking fullbacks. That's what I'd like to see next season.

Dalglish has used Aurelio as part of a midfield base, where he can "cover" (but not very well if the opposition start pressing back), but more importantly, where he complements Lucas's passing ability. When Aurelio can concentrate on passing, without being threatened, he and Lucas are a joy to watch.

[Sangria]

That's exactly what I want. And with Lucas linking in with our more 'attacking' players, it's more likely to happen than it would in a deeper role.

It can happen even with a deeper role. It just needs a strong enough complement of passers and movers around him.

[new-red]

Anyone watch interview with Spearing? Someone said he mentioned Lucas?

just said that lucas was helping him  a lot.

[Hazell]

It can happen even with a deeper role. It just needs a strong enough complement of passers and movers around him.

Yeah but I'm talking about with the players we have right now. We'd benefit in terms of the final third with him higher up than where he is right now. If we were to get better 'passers and movers', similar to Lucas in fact, it wouldn't matter so much.

[Hazell]

Watching the Slovenia-Italy game, Montolivio would be someone who'd fit in well with that kind of style.

[SalisburyRed]

Lucas Leiva understands he is finally accepted at Liverpool

After more than three years on Merseyside, Lucas Leiva still struggles with the local accent, but understands it well enough to work out that Liverpool's supporters are now singing his name without irony. But although his relationship with the fans at Anfield has improved immeasurably, the Brazilian acknowledges that his every move will be scrutinised each time he steps on the pitch. It is a familiar feeling.

"Playing for Liverpool brings a similar kind of pressure to when I represent my country," Lucas says. "Both sets of fans have a very low tolerance level of defeat and will not hesitate to demand more from the team. Playing for Liverpool is like being watched by Brazilians!"

The 24-year-old midfielder should know, having featured in each of his country's last five games since being called up by the new coach Mano Menezes, under whom he played at Gremio. Alongside Chelsea's Ramires, Lucas has formed a solid midfield partnership that, barring a late injury, should start Sunday's friendly against Scotland at the Emirates.

Nonetheless, Lucas reveals that he had to convince Menezes he would fit into his plans. Since taking over from Dunga after Brazil's dismal World Cup quarter-final defeat by Holland last summer, Menezes has introduced a more traditional attacking game while Lucas has been deployed in a more defensive role by Liverpool than he was at Gremio. "In Gremio I had carte blanche to go forward and participate more in the attacking plays. But things had to change when I arrived in Liverpool, where I am used much more as a holding midfielder. That transition took time and made settling in even more challenging. It was necessary to prove to Mano that I could still be useful."

Indeed, Lucas partly attributes his struggles to win over the fans and his early lacklustre performances at Anfield to being asked to change his game by the then manager Rafael Benítez when he arrived in 2007. The Brazilian rarely got a glimpse in the first team and even created problems for the club indirectly – in Brazil's 3-0 defeat by Argentina in the 2008 Olympic semi-finals he earned a red card in a dangerous tackle that also injured his club team-mate Javier Mascherano.

"Things were not looking good and some supporters were obviously not happy," he says. "I still think people needed to see the bigger picture. The move to Liverpool represented a change of country, language and there was also the not so small detail that I was only 20 and arriving at a traditional club in one of the most demanding leagues in the world. Also, few people seemed to remember Liverpool had a group of players that had made two of the last three Champions League finals. It would have been impossible to just parachute in. Maybe the supporters thought a Brazilian midfielder would do magic.''

His frustration and anxieties were alleviated by a combination of long conversations with his parents back home and the support of Benítez, who publicly backed him while privately advising Lucas to keep his head down and work harder. Lucas speaks fondly of the role the Spaniard played in rebuilding his confidence and it is no surprise that Benítez's departure last summer was a huge blow, not least because the Brazilian thought the club would sell him at the first opportunity.

"How could I blame Liverpool [if they had]? At that point I had not had a sequence of games long enough for people to see what I was all about. I had the feeling they were not counting on me for the new era. But at the end the club and I reached common ground. I was happy because nobody would want to leave a club as big as Liverpool without a true chance to show their abilities."

Not that there was any immediate chance for Lucas to do so. The arrival of Roy Hodgson in Benítez's stead was followed by a collective dip in form that resulted in Liverpool going out of the Carling Cup and into the bottom three in the Premier League. Reports indicated the players had lost faith in the manager. Lucas, however, fervently denies any mutiny contributed to Hodgson's entry in the history books as Liverpool's shortest-serving manager.

"We lost Rafa and until the pre-season there was not a substitute," he says. "Roy simply brought a philosophy that did not work with the team at that time and this is not the first or last time it will happen. This rumour about us not working hard enough is nonsense. And so was the questioning of Roy's managerial capabilities. He did a great job at Fulham and now is doing well at West Brom."

Hodgson's departure at the start of this year brought the return of an Anfield legend under whom Lucas, and Liverpool, have prospered. The midfielder had met Kenny Dalglish in his ambassadorial role at the club and the manager had also featured heavily in Lucas's crash course in Liverpudlian culture when his move to Merseyside was finalised. Along with piles of Beatles CDs, Lucas devoured DVD anthologies of Liverpool FC goals. A good bunch were scored by his now-manager.

I could see that Dalglish was unbelievable as a player, but he has also made an impression on me as a manager. The world is full of great players flunking as managers. But Dalglish has rescued our confidence and at the same time he has helped us think a bit better."

Dalglish and his assistant manager Steve Clarke have masterminded a change which Lucas says was most evident in the team's first-half display in the 3-1 defeat of Manchester United this month. "During the week of the game, Dalglish talked about the possible United line-ups and made sure we understood how important it would be for us to give them some of their own medicine. He went on and on about suffocating them in midfield. We had a great afternoon doing what he said. His mantra is: make it simple and work together."

Impressive enough for Lucas to forgive his Scottish manager's banter in regards to the London friendly. In the last few weeks, Dalglish has constantly told his player that Scotland will finally break their duck against Brazil in their 10th meeting. After a promising start under Menezes, with victories over the US, Iran and Ukraine, Brazil stumbled against Argentina and France. Winning at the Emirates is essential to keep the fans on board.

"It's a new era and the team is still gelling, for a lot of players who were around in the last World Cup have departed," says Lucas. "We lost both games 1-0, with Argentina scoring in the 90th minute and against France we played almost 60 minutes with 10 men. Scotland will be desperate to surprise us which makes our responsibility to ensure they do not even greater."

When Lucas returns to his club, he will have more on his mind than mulling over the aftermath of the game with Dalglish. With his club contract ending this summer, Lucas is hoping to re-open talks over an extension: He wants to stay and has even joked that would like to see his newborn son Pedro Lucas speaking English with a Scouse twang. But he is still waiting for the club's move.

"I have no reasons to go and I hope the club see things the same. It would be fantastic to play for Liverpool in the Champions League again and I don't see why we can't return.

"We have a squad that is united in its will and desire to return this club to where it belongs."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/26/lucas-leiva-brazil-liverpool?CMP=twt_gu

[koolkamal]

Putting ability aside for a minute - his attitude, determination, strength, humbleness is amazing.

The epitome of a Liverpool player.

He had a good mentor in Rafa and now in Kenny he has another great mentor both with similar attitudes.

[Raoul Duke]

Well played Lucas lad.

[Juan Loco]

Thought his contract ended next summer, not this?

Hopefully an extension is sorted quickly. Good to see he's making sounds about a new deal and not moving elsewhere.

[cyador]

It does expire next summer, not this despite what the guardian writes.

[penga]

Yes it was. But I don't think it was the only one, or even a huge one in relation to the other problems we had last season. In relation to assists - I guess you could argue the same about Alonso - he didn't have many assists did he in 2008/2009 (I don't think purely looking at that should be used to make a judgement on how 'creative' a player is anyway but that's another debate)? Yet he was our best player. Now when Lucas played last season, it was always going to be difficult to do what Alonso did and to be fair, he's not exactly the same type of player. That's where the lack of movement comes in because Lucas is more dynamic than Alonso and got forward more than Alonso did the year before. If we had our other players performing well and performing in a similar vein, then it wouldn't have been nearly as problematic but we didn't and we  suffered as a result. Like I said though, it wasn't the only problem last season.

Just because he's performing well where his right now though doesn't necessarily mean he won't perform to the same standard higher up the pitch.

There were many problems but it was still one of the biggest problems how couldnt it be? He was asked to fill the Alonso position but clearly did not have the same creative ability (not his fault) or enough movement or dynamism himself to cover that. Alonso got 5 goals and 5 assists in 08-09 and visibly plays a much more dictacting and expansive role as compared to Lucas. Aside from Alonso all our wingers and midfielders were the same so you cannot really blame it on the rest of the players providing no movement because it was the same setup. Of course no one is saying Lucas has no creative ability because I've seen some very nice creative balls from him and his contribution to some attacking plays but it simply doesn't happen enough if he is to play that position. If he did have enough dynamism he would be scoring goals and getting more assists.

When Aquilani came in all of a sudden everyone's movement in the same team was good again because he actually could imposed his style and movement into the team and forced people to pass and move which Lucas simply could not do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwSWZg1aOg being 1 of the few examples available, you can clearly see the benefit that such players as Babel who you don't normally associate with smart football, linking up and moving into good spaces, u see Gerrard's link up level increase hugely and also Kuyt who can be very inconsistent in touch and passing. Here you can also see Lucas at the base being the DM. For us 09-10 was Lucas' chance for a whole season to show how creative he could be (either in movement or passing) in a slightly more advanced position like you're suggesting now and to see if he could contribute goals but he simply didn't and instead showed he could defend like a boss. So instead of moving Lucas ahead which will make us more defensive and lack further creativity he should stay exactly where he is and we should get a specialist CM play maker e.g. Adam, Aquilani, etc or Gerrard in a more disciplined role.

[new-red]

I think lucas and mascherano were very much confined to covering roles because of vulnerable our defense was. I think Rafa's ideas were to have 2 wbs really bomb on and create the width in the side so ideally you would have 6 attackers with masch and lucas just outside the final third to cover carra and the other cb because we were leaving a lot of space down the flanks which the midfielders had to cover. Because of the lack of pace of our 2 cbs we played a deeper line and we were subject to a lot more penetrative counters than the year before. Our whole team was just out of whack.

[Cpt_Reina]

Putting ability aside for a minute - his attitude, determination, strength, humbleness is amazing.

The epitome of a Liverpool player.

He had a good mentor in Rafa and now in Kenny he has another great mentor both with similar attitudes.

I couldn't add any more to this.

Agree 100%.

[new-red]

Everyone better read that anfield index article which Statistically shows how well lucas had done for us. This should be a revelation to a lot on here.

[jackh]

I think lucas and mascherano were very much confined to covering roles because of vulnerable our defense was. I think Rafa's ideas were to have 2 wbs really bomb on and create the width in the side so ideally you would have 6 attackers with masch and lucas just outside the final third to cover carra and the other cb because we were leaving a lot of space down the flanks which the midfielders had to cover. Because of the lack of pace of our 2 cbs we played a deeper line and we were subject to a lot more penetrative counters than the year before. Our whole team was just out of whack.

Personally, I've always assumed that Rafa's idea was:

                    Reina
                    Carra
          Skrtel          Agger
Johnson     Masch     Dossena
        Gerrard          Barry
                          Keane
                Torres

Cavalieri
_______
Arbeloa
Lucas
Benayoun
Kuyt
______

[ozzy-red]

Everyone better read that anfield index article which Statistically shows how well lucas had done for us. This should be a revelation to a lot on here.

Which article was that mate?

[new-red]

Which article was that mate?

 http://www.anfieldindex.com/class-of-0809-midfield-comparison-part-ii/

[ozzy-red]

http://www.anfieldindex.com/class-of-0809-midfield-comparison-part-ii/

Cheers mate.

[robbie96]

Lucas threatens to scotch Dalglish's pride
Published 22:59 25/03/11 By Neil McLeman



Lucas Leiva wants to repay Kenny Dalglish for revitalising Liverpool by beating his new manager's beloved Scotland.

Brazil face the Bravehearts at the Emirates Stadium tomorrow in their first meeting since the opening game of France 98.

Kop caretaker Dalglish holds the highest number of Scotland caps (102) and shares the goalscoring record with Denis Law (30).

And although Lucas acknowledged his domestic debt to his boss this season, the 24-year-old is keen to return from national service with Brazilian bragging rights.

"I am enjoying my football with Kenny Dalglish," he said. "He is very good not just for me but for all the players and the fans.

Everyone can see the atmosphere is very good at the moment. The results are also better than before. Everyone is enjoying this time.

"He has been joking about this match and I think he will be watching. Hopefully Brazil will beat Scotland.

"I don't think he will be happy if I score but I am sure he will let me back Anfield if I do!"

As well as a regular place in the Liverpool midfield, Lucas has also recently celebrated the birth of his son Pedro Lucas.

"This season has been very good for me, not just because of the baby but for the performances as well," he continued. "I'm very happy the way I'm playing, so I just have to make sure I keep the same level. And of course now a son will be an extra motivation for me. I'm looking forward to help him to grow up."

Lucas has yet to win at the Emirates against Arsenal in four attempts - and expects a Premier League-style clash tomorrow.

"It will be a very physical game," he predicted. "I know a lot of the players. I will give some advice. They have good players, they have Darren Fletcher, Charlie Adam and other players so we have to make sure we play well."

Liverpool sporting director Damien Comolli suggested there was now a better atmosphere at Liverpool without £50m Fernando Torres. But Lucas insisted: "The atmosphere at the club was very good when Fernando was there as well. I don't like to talk about Fernando because he is my friend, I hope he will be happy in Chelsea.

"It is a big change for him. He did really well for Liverpool and scored a lot of goals. As soon as he scores for Chelsea, I think he will shine again."

Despite his instant impact at Chelsea, David Luiz is set to start on bench with the recalled Lucio and Thiago Silva likely to start as centre-backs.

Lucas added: "I have known David since I was 19 years old so I am not surprised he has done so well already. Also Ramires is doing really well. I know how difficult it is for a Brazilian player to play in the Premier League. Hopefully more Brazilians will come and help other teams here."

After losing the last two friendlies against Argentina and France, Brazil coach Mano Menezes has now got his short-term focus on July's Copa America on the route to their World Cup in 2014

Robinho and Ronaldinho have been left out while Alexandre Pato has withdrawn with an ankle injury.

"He is trying to give an opportunity to the new players and build a new team for the World Cup in 2014 and the Copa America in the summer so there is still a lot of work to do," Lucas said. "We are heading in the right direction and a win against Scotland will help the confidence to grow."



Source: Mirror Football UK

http://tinyurl.com/4ggx3d8

[Sangria]

So instead of moving Lucas ahead which will make us more defensive and lack further creativity he should stay exactly where he is and we should get a specialist CM play maker e.g. Adam, Aquilani, etc or Gerrard in a more disciplined role.

Or better still, stock the midfield with all-rounder types who can both defend and keep the ball moving fluently, and instead of relying on any one player to do a particular job, have them all doing it interchangeably.

[Sangria]

I think lucas and mascherano were very much confined to covering roles because of vulnerable our defense was. I think Rafa's ideas were to have 2 wbs really bomb on and create the width in the side so ideally you would have 6 attackers with masch and lucas just outside the final third to cover carra and the other cb because we were leaving a lot of space down the flanks which the midfielders had to cover. Because of the lack of pace of our 2 cbs we played a deeper line and we were subject to a lot more penetrative counters than the year before. Our whole team was just out of whack.

If the CBs were capable of sweeping up the odd, but swift attack, an ultra-pressing front 6 with Lucas and Mascherano sweeping outside their immediate attacking zone would have been deadly. A front 6 with numbers and energy in attack, Lucas and Mascherano doing the defensive and recycling work of a midfield 4, and a CB pair whose main concern was to take care of the dribs and drabs that got through, in the style of Hansen of old.

[Fluke]

There were many problems but it was still one of the biggest problems how couldnt it be? He was asked to fill the Alonso position but clearly did not have the same creative ability (not his fault) or enough movement or dynamism himself to cover that. Alonso got 5 goals and 5 assists in 08-09 and visibly plays a much more dictacting and expansive role as compared to Lucas. Aside from Alonso all our wingers and midfielders were the same so you cannot really blame it on the rest of the players providing no movement because it was the same setup. Of course no one is saying Lucas has no creative ability because I've seen some very nice creative balls from him and his contribution to some attacking plays but it simply doesn't happen enough if he is to play that position. If he did have enough dynamism he would be scoring goals and getting more assists.

When Aquilani came in all of a sudden everyone's movement in the same team was good again because he actually could imposed his style and movement into the team and forced people to pass and move which Lucas simply could not do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwSWZg1aOg being 1 of the few examples available, you can clearly see the benefit that such players as Babel who you don't normally associate with smart football, linking up and moving into good spaces, u see Gerrard's link up level increase hugely and also Kuyt who can be very inconsistent in touch and passing. Here you can also see Lucas at the base being the DM. For us 09-10 was Lucas' chance for a whole season to show how creative he could be (either in movement or passing) in a slightly more advanced position like you're suggesting now and to see if he could contribute goals but he simply didn't and instead showed he could defend like a boss. So instead of moving Lucas ahead which will make us more defensive and lack further creativity he should stay exactly where he is and we should get a specialist CM play maker e.g. Adam, Aquilani, etc or Gerrard in a more disciplined role.

The bolded statements completely contradict each other.  It's not the same setup if their movement isn't the same.

[penga]

The bolded statements completely contradict each other.  It's not the same setup if their movement isn't the same.

When comparing Lucas and Alonso it was a similar set up because they played in the same position in the same formation because neither were very dynamic in their own movement, the main difference being that Lucas was not as creative and dictating in the play as Alonso. When Aquilani came in he had his own style which forced a different type of movement from the other players in a slightly different setup. Some times he played CM, sometimes CAM and sometimes alternating between the 2 with Gerrard. Lucas did not have the ability to force a different style onto the game like Aquilani. What was clear was that we were a much better team and created more chances when either Gerrard or Aquilani were occupying the CM positions along side or just ahead of the DM than Lucas which is the point I'm trying to make.

[new-red]

If the CBs were capable of sweeping up the odd, but swift attack, an ultra-pressing front 6 with Lucas and Mascherano sweeping outside their immediate attacking zone would have been deadly. A front 6 with numbers and energy in attack, Lucas and Mascherano doing the defensive and recycling work of a midfield 4, and a CB pair whose main concern was to take care of the dribs and drabs that got through, in the style of Hansen of old.

I completely agree but they very much weren't.

The game that I realized that Carra was a not a first teamer anymore was the west ham away game. One of WHU's pacey wingers got down the touchline and into the box and carra was trying to keep up with him and he tried to make one of his patented shoulder challenges but was a step late and got him in the back instead. A clear penalty but it opened my eyes because carra would always make those types of challenges successfully before but he couldn't do it this time. The lack of pace was apparent.

Playing a deeper line moved everyone back 10 yards just like the first half of this season. The top clubs can play with the CBs at midfield almost so even your deepest lying midfielders are just outside the final third like a busquets. With Agger in the squad these last few months we have been able to push and start attacks much closer to the opposition penalty box.

But yea that is one of the key reasons why we failed last year.

The priority in the summer for me is this:

1a. Winger
1b. Top ball playing CB

after those two needs are filled I couldn't really be arsed what positions get taken care of because addressing those needs will sort out a lot of our problems at current.

[Cadno]

Everyone better read that anfield index article which Statistically shows how well lucas had done for us. This should be a revelation to a lot on here.

Won't make any difference to most of the haters.  You will get the "Statistics can he made to make anyone look good" or some such nonsense.  Facts and statistics will make no difference to some, their opinion is far more important to them.

[barneystuta]

http://www.anfieldindex.com/class-of-0809-midfield-comparison-part-ii/

Really highlights a few good points this. Below is my comment I made on the blog yesterday -

The pressure came from Lucas, simply because he had one of the toughest job’s around in European football, at that time.

The combination of Gerrard, Alonso, and Mascherano, was near “perfect” as you can get. The ball winner, Mascherano. Alonso, who was such a luxury. And Gerrard, the goal scorer, creator, and “superman”. It worked, at times, near perfect.

When was injured, rested, or suspended, up stepped Lucas. And, as the stats point out, he did relatively well in all aspects. But never really “specialised” in anything. Eventually, when Alonso left, and his replacement Aquilani was on the treatment table, Lucas had to step up. And, he simply isn’t, wasn’t, and never will be Xabi.

That is no slant on him at all, as Lucas is a very good player to have, and I think he has well and truly earned his place in the team. But we did miss Alonso, so much. He made everything happen, he made everything tick. Without taking the Gerrard like headlines.

Now, our midfield has evolved. We don’t have Alonso, or a player like him, but the way we set up and play is totally different. While having a Xabi Alonso wouldn’t harm at all, we don’t “need” him like we did then.

Mereiles is proving to be a very good player, with totally different qualities. Scoring vital goals so far this season. Lucas has stepped right up to the plate, and is one of the first names on the team sheet at the moment. And Gerrard, under Kenny, has in the main taken a deeper role. Less “super man” but still having all his midfield qualities, that he has always possessed.

I fully expect to see us sign another midfielder in the summer, someone who can give us that passing from deep. Adam is heavily linked of course, and he could be the one. But Alonso? He was one in a million.

[Fluke]

When comparing Lucas and Alonso it was a similar set up because they played in the same position in the same formation because neither were very dynamic in their own movement, the main difference being that Lucas was not as creative and dictating in the play as Alonso. When Aquilani came in he had his own style which forced a different type of movement from the other players in a slightly different setup. Some times he played CM, sometimes CAM and sometimes alternating between the 2 with Gerrard. Lucas did not have the ability to force a different style onto the game like Aquilani. What was clear was that we were a much better team and created more chances when either Gerrard or Aquilani were occupying the CM positions along side or just ahead of the DM than Lucas which is the point I'm trying to make.

Fair enough, I think I understand your point a bit better now.

What I will say though, is that this is more a criticism of the team as a whole, and then by extension, the manager and his tactics.  Because the problem isn't so much that Lucas wasn't creative enough, but rather that the team's movement was too stagnant.  When the team moves well and makes themselves available for passes, Lucas flourishes (and I think most would agree that's how we want to see our team set-up).  Alonso's talent may have worked as a double-edged sword in that our movement may have gotten a bit lazier.  Why pass and move when Alonso is just going to ping one 50 yards for Kuyt to run onto and we're already attacking the box?

Alonso was able to play the low percentage ball, because for him, the percentages weren't as low.  Lucas is an advocate for maintaining possession and won't play the low percentage balls as often.  Because of the after-effect of having Alonso, we were setting up in a way that meant that Lucas' qualities weren't on show.

What SHOULD have happened is the team should've adjusted their tactics and movement to play to the remaining players' strengths.  They didn't and Lucas suffered because of it, along with the rest of the team.  I think Lucas' qualities are right in-line with what Liverpool should be playing, and also what Kenny is trying to bring to us.  Like barneystuta said, Alonso would be a luxury, but not a necessity, with our current set-up (which is the set-up we should have had when Alonso left).  So the criticism that Lucas wasn't creative enough, is missing the point.  It really should be, the team should've set-up differently.


.... probably rambled a little too long there.

[Hazell]

There were many problems but it was still one of the biggest problems how couldnt it be? He was asked to fill the Alonso position but clearly did not have the same creative ability (not his fault) or enough movement or dynamism himself to cover that. Alonso got 5 goals and 5 assists in 08-09 and visibly plays a much more dictacting and expansive role as compared to Lucas. Aside from Alonso all our wingers and midfielders were the same so you cannot really blame it on the rest of the players providing no movement because it was the same setup. Of course no one is saying Lucas has no creative ability because I've seen some very nice creative balls from him and his contribution to some attacking plays but it simply doesn't happen enough if he is to play that position. If he did have enough dynamism he would be scoring goals and getting more assists.

But I'm not saying it wasn't a problem. Replacing Lucas with Alonso meant the team suffered - but all I'm saying is there were other issues, which if they hadn't occured or had been fixed, meant we wouldn't nearly have had the season we did.

The thing about the lack of movement is that it was there - Alonso's ability eant that we were able to mask our problems with it. When he left, we had no one who could ditate the game and find a player like he could which meant our limitations were exposed. As for his goals, that's still not a lot and how many were penalties or freekicks (The one in Europe was, , one against Newcastle in the league was and the goal against Hull was a rebound from a free kick which Alonso took himself)? Lucas doesn't need to score or assist to have an impact on the game just like Alonso didn't. And the reason it doesn't happen enough is because Lucas, like Alonso (particularly in his final few years) plays deeper and doesn't have Alonso's passing range. That's what we missed last season but playing him further forward would mean that he'd be able to utilise his ability on and off the ball in an attacking sense - and he does have it.

When Aquilani came in all of a sudden everyone's movement in the same team was good again because he actually could imposed his style and movement into the team and forced people to pass and move which Lucas simply could not do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwSWZg1aOg being 1 of the few examples available, you can clearly see the benefit that such players as Babel who you don't normally associate with smart football, linking up and moving into good spaces, u see Gerrard's link up level increase hugely and also Kuyt who can be very inconsistent in touch and passing. Here you can also see Lucas at the base being the DM. For us 09-10 was Lucas' chance for a whole season to show how creative he could be (either in movement or passing) in a slightly more advanced position like you're suggesting now and to see if he could contribute goals but he simply didn't and instead showed he could defend like a boss. So instead of moving Lucas ahead which will make us more defensive and lack further creativity he should stay exactly where he is and we should get a specialist CM play maker e.g. Adam, Aquilani, etc or Gerrard in a more disciplined role.

Lucas is a pass and move player and him playing further ahead of where he does right now would demonstrate that more than it already has done so. Aquilani was another quality attacking player added to the team so when he played we obviously looked better. The best move in that game started from Lucas playing a 10-15 yard pass cutting out 2 of the opposition players - if he was higher up, he would have been involved in that move but what it does show is a) the benefit of him playing that deep but also b) his ability to play a pass - again he could do more damage to the opposition if he were deployed further up the pitch. In fact, it wouldn't make us more defensive at all (how?) but give us more attacking impetus - something which would benfit the likes of Aquilani, Suarez and Gerrard. Really don't agree with you about his qualities here - he really is a pass and move player (I genuinely can;'t see why some people can't see that) and we could use him more in an attacking sense if we want to play a more progressive type of football.

[Stussy]

What a great interview. What a great lad.

[Sangria]

But I'm not saying it wasn't a problem. Replacing Lucas with Alonso meant the team suffered - but all I'm saying is there were other issues, which if they hadn't occured or had been fixed, meant we wouldn't nearly have had the season we did.

The thing about the lack of movement is that it was there - Alonso's ability eant that we were able to mask our problems with it. When he left, we had no one who could ditate the game and find a player like he could which meant our limitations were exposed. As for his goals, that's still not a lot and how many were penalties or freekicks (The one in Europe was, , one against Newcastle in the league was and the goal against Hull was a rebound from a free kick which Alonso took himself)? Lucas doesn't need to score or assist to have an impact on the game just like Alonso didn't. And the reason it doesn't happen enough is because Lucas, like Alonso (particularly in his final few years) plays deeper and doesn't have Alonso's passing range. That's what we missed last season but playing him further forward would mean that he'd be able to utilise his ability on and off the ball in an attacking sense - and he does have it.

Lucas is a pass and move player and him playing further ahead of where he does right now would demonstrate that more than it already has done so. Aquilani was another quality attacking player added to the team so when he played we obviously looked better. The best move in that game started from Lucas playing a 10-15 yard pass cutting out 2 of the opposition players - if he was higher up, he would have been involved in that move but what it does show is a) the benefit of him playing that deep but also b) his ability to play a pass - again he could do more damage to the opposition if he were deployed further up the pitch. In fact, it wouldn't make us more defensive at all (how?) but give us more attacking impetus - something which would benfit the likes of Aquilani, Suarez and Gerrard. Really don't agree with you about his qualities here - he really is a pass and move player (I genuinely can;'t see why some people can't see that) and we could use him more in an attacking sense if we want to play a more progressive type of football.

Simple solution. Play him as the deepest midfielder. And play him further up the pitch. They're not mutually exclusive.

[new-red]

Simple solution. Play him as the deepest midfielder. And play him further up the pitch. They're not mutually exclusive.

This requires the defensive line to be pushed up. To get Lucas in more advanced positions in his current role we need our cbs to be able to play football which u know as well as I do.

[Sangria]

This requires the defensive line to be pushed up. To get Lucas in more advanced positions in his current role we need our cbs to be able to play football which u know as well as I do.

I think the key to making use of Lucas as an attacker is to get him beyond the centre circle, and have runners ahead of him. Put that together, which the team should do anyway regardless of Lucas, and he'll be productive enough in an attacking sense. 20 yards outside the opposition box and closer is the zone to aim for.

[StevePass]

HELLO, anybody, somebody, please give this man a new contract to sign.  And make it a bloody good one.

[new-red]

I think the key to making use of Lucas as an attacker is to get him beyond the centre circle, and have runners ahead of him. Put that together, which the team should do anyway regardless of Lucas, and he'll be productive enough in an attacking sense. 20 yards outside the opposition box and closer is the zone to aim for.

I agree but I believe the point still stands that if the defensive line is too deep then Lucas cannot get forward as much because he will leave far too much space in front of the back line to exploit. We need to have ball playing cbs to get Lucas further forward.

[new-red]

HELLO, anybody, somebody, please give this man a new contract to sign.  And make it a bloody good one.

As long as it is a five year contract I don't care how much he gets paid. If we can keep him on 5k wages let's do it, lol.

In all seriousness he deserves to be around the 35-50k range.