Jesus christ, step back from the keyboard and think a little will you. Did i blame rafa for letting hyypia go? did i? do you want to point out or quote me of where i even suggested anything like that? no, well dont put words in my mouth.
The point was made that the team is vastly improved from what it was when he first took over.
My point is the spine was the strongest aspect of the team he inherited and even now, 5 years on, its still the strongest aspect of his team.
Walshy gave a list of players and i drew comparison to their equivalent counterparts 5 years ago.
Carragher was our centre half 5 years ago along with hyypia. I'd take carra and hyypia over 5 year older carra and injured agger. But i think agger is better on the ball than either of those two but is injury prone. Is an injury prone and aging centre half an improvement?
The attempt to compare heskey with torres is ridiculous. Owen was first choice pre rafa. There was an over reliance on owen to score under houllier and there's an over reliance on torres now. During the 5 years with rafa we've got through cisse, baros, mellor, morientes, crouch and bellamy. Now we have torres. Is torres better than owen, yes i think his allround game is better. So "torres apart" then (i think there's an echo in the room now)
Again similarly ridiculous to compare murphy and alonso. Was spud ever our first choice centre mid? Spud played very few games as first choice centre midfield unless everyone else was injured. He played predominately on either the left or right of midfield with gary mac, didi and steven gerrard taking centre spot. Even if you want to pitch him in as a centre mid is he inferiour to lucas? who'd no doubt is 2nd fiddle to masc, gerrard and now aqualini as murphy was to didi, gary mac and gerrard.
Aurilio or riise. Toss a coin. Riise's was heavily reliant on his left peg but was fit as a fiddle, form dipped after 2005. Aurelio is great when he's fit but he's injury prone, hence the reason insua's getting so many games.
Our style of play has changed little in five years because the strength is still down the middle.
Maybe I've misunderstood what point you are making here.
However I'll run the risk of making further ridiculous comments.
Given that it's a thread discussing the signings Rafa has made and you don't think the squad or our style of play has improved under him, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that given your assesment of the replacements,it is anyone but Rafa's fault.
So when you list players , including Hyypia as not being improved upon, it's fair to point out that if Rafa had his way Hyypia would still be a part of the squad, although not as first choice. Hence my comment.
I doubt if even the best of managers can reverse the ravages of time as far as his players are concerned.
Regarding ridiculous comments again.......Hyypia and Carragher wasn't our centre back pairing in 2003/04, Biscan and Hyypia were. Even Traore was played there before Carragher.
Houllier preferred Biscan and didn't rate Carragher as a centre back...he didn't trust him because he scored a couple of own goals against Man Utd.
We were battered by Arsenal 4 - 2 at Highbury and after that Carragher was moved to centre back and Henchov brought in as right back. That was in April 2004.
To say you would take Hyypia and Carragher 5 years younger is not an option is it? To ask if an injury prone player and an ageing centre back is an improvement is a ridiculous comment to make.
Was Agger injured when he was bought.....was Carra the same age as he is now when Rafa made him the player he is?
Kewell would hardly win any long term fitness awards and by your own description 'was shit' yet Riera isn't an improvement on him?
I've no idea what Garcia has to do with anything as he's well gone.Kuyt isn't an improvement on Smicer?
Regarding Heskey or Owen. I agree that Owen was our first choice but he had gone, so Rafa had no chance to use him. Again, not Rafa's fault.
It would be just as easy to use Sinama Pongolle, Mellor, Baros or Diouf by comparison.
Murphy is a central midfielder, a playmaker, irrespective of where Houllier played him. That's what he was bought as and that's where he has always played and that's where he is playing now, so the comparison isn't as ridiculous as it sounds.
I could make the same comparison between Alonso and Cheyrou or Diao if you want as they were our other midfield players at the time.
The only other comparison is the one that you have already made between Hamman and Masherano.
To say that we haven't improved because we didn't break teams down who parked the bus last season is nit picking. Our European standing and the vctories we have enjoyed would suggest otherwise. Not to mention the season by season improvement in the league. The team that finished the 03/04 season 30 points behind the winners had far more problems than this team by a country mile.
You are correct, the spine of the team Rafa inherited was strongest part of it, and still is. That doesn't mean the spine of this team isn't an even better one than the one he inherited. The spine of the team always has to be the strongest part of it. Ideally you can supplement that by having strength out wide which is being addressed this season by the introduction of Johnson. I don't see Chelsea, Arsenal or Man Utd with too much to shout about with out and out wide players.!
Finishing last season as the Leagues top scorers would also refute your argument.
