Topic: Spurs vs Liverpool 2-1 Post Match Reaction

[wz4jc3]

Thats what happens when the manager has to work with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Give Rafa the funds he needs you pair of skint cowboy twats!

Here lies the problem. 

[Notayesman]

Lucas was shite today as per usual, he offers nothing to the team and shouldn't play again. Gerrard needs to be moved back to midfield until Aquilani is fit. Next game line up should be

Pepe

Johnson    Carra   Agger(if fit)    Insua

         Gerrard              Masch

Kuyt            Yossi         Riera

              Torres

so lucas is now a world class player. mate u need to wake up as well. did u listen to sky after the match. oh thats right them boys are stupid as well?

Jesus they're out in strength today.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

your fishing there surely...please tell me you are....nobody can be that thick.

If he's fishing, that's a fucking good quota of catches. Unfortunately I don't think he is.....

[WorldChampions]

Babel needs to get his act together sharp. Yossi was 10x the player in his short cameo role than Babel was during his longer one

[indi_lfc]

Always guna be a tricky game. Still Optimistic about the season. We just need one or two more players. A right-back and a winger. But Rafa has sed he will not buy. We can play better. We have our next to games at home. BAbel needs confidence but we should of started with benny. When he came on he created a few chances.

Mancs struggled and so did chelsea. They were both at home and weaker oppositions.

Oh ye, the refs a twat.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

so lucas is now a world class player. mate u need to wake up as well. did u listen to sky after the match. oh thats right them boys are stupid as well?

Just for the record, yes Sky are fucking stupid.

HTH.

[Leighc1979]

Clearly we lack strength up top. And with the number 7 shirt still vacant I'm pretty sure we will sign someone. We simply have to. I don't know how long Babel is going to last for though. It was a big chance for him today.

[scoresagain]

If he's fishing, that's a fucking good quota of catches. Unfortunately I don't think he is.....

i can just imagine him hanging off andy grays every word.

[JamieB]

Gerrard has to drop back into midfield. We were much better when he was on the ball. We see the best Gerrard when he's on it to. We need a CB and we need to invest. I hope the owners were watching. Lucas and Babel let themselves down to today. Thoroughly disappointed.

[ElSheak]

I don't know why I was so pissed at the result, I didn't have high expectations for a result today anyway. And thats not being negative, but realistic going into the game. 

Pre-season wasn't a confidence booster -  I can't remember a game where really we played much better than that through the summer. Alonso leaving wasn't a great help and the way we play has had to change slightly to accommodate his absence. With that in mind, plus pre-season, going to Spurs was never going to be a romp in the park for us. I thought a score draw would of been right before the game, but I was hoping for a kick on in performance, even though I hadn't seen evidence prior to todays game that that would happen.

I think the Borro game last season was the last time I have seen us so incoherent as a team. The passing was sub standard all game and the 'punting' forward was a bad sign of how much we lacked confidence giving the ball to the middle - where we looked at times stretched, but others too condensed. We couldn't pass all game, that wasn't helped by missing out on every 50/50 ball. It was like it was magnetised to land at a Spurs players feet. As well as that, one of the most one-sided referring performances I've seen in a while, would always ensure we would struggle. Just nothing went our way - bar Riena being at his best.

Back to Phil Dowd though. Utterly shocking. Card happy when it suited, and no consistency all game. I was surprised he gave the penalty to be honest because there was reluctance every time he had to give us a freekick. Voronins penalty was never going to be given, he bottled that big time - as would most refs to be fair, but it didn't help.

Spurs took big advantage today and rightly so. We'd of faired no better against your Hulls, Stokes and Burnleys. We really were that bad. I hope we can get this game out of our system and look interested in a fight - because Stoke mid week will be anything less. We need to gel rather quickly before that game and put today and pre-season out of our minds.

I'm certainly not going to worry about this one game, give me three more of equal measure and then I will. As for the title race, that should be banned as a discussion from the media, the fans, everything, until at least after New Year. The season was never lost on the opening day of the weekend (just ask Yernited), despite what tomorrows maulings in the media will no doubt suggest.

Today we were shit. End of. Riena saved us from embarrassment, Yossi proved we can still play well and Torres will get better. As long as there is improvement and a win against Stoke, today really doesn't matter. 

[LFC when it suits]

Just for the record, yes Sky are fucking stupid.

HTH.

They talk some shite, but half the time, they also talk sense but a lot of our fans are too blind to see it as if no one has the right to say anything negative about a club of our stature that hasnt won a league title in 19 years.

[Dar]

We were shite, Yossi was our best player and he only had 20mins which says it all.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Interesting thought, perhaps we'll only have a small blip this season and it'll be at the start, then we'll twat everyone and win the league. That's my reckoning anyway.

[dobbadobbs]

Gerrard has to drop back into midfield. We were much better when he was on the ball. We see the best Gerrard when he's on it to. We need a CB and we need to invest. I hope the owners were watching. Lucas and Babel let themselves down to today. Thoroughly disappointed.

Babel did, Lucas didn't. Far worse players than Lucas today mate. Could have been worse if it wasn't for a few timely interceptions from the lad. Did well to put an end to a few Lennon surges.

[LFC when it suits]

Clearly we lack strength up top. And with the number 7 shirt still vacant I'm pretty sure we will sign someone. We simply have to. I don't know how long Babel is going to last for though. It was a big chance for him today.

He looked utter toss today, but so did everybody else bar Reina, Johnson,, Insua and Benayoun. Atleast he wasnt taking out his own players.

[Red Genius]

I think we have to put Lucas's performance into some kind of context.

With regards to his game today he played quite well, he delivered his passes, was busy in defensive situations, competed okay against a strong opposition in midfield.

However there is a distinction between Lucas delivering a performance to a certain standard, and delivering the goal of his role within the team. With Alonso gone the onus is on Lucas to become the link between defense and attack with Mascheranos main function to win the ball back. Within this role Lucas had a bad game today, because he did not effectively move the ball from defense to attack.

I believe Lucas certainly has attributes to do a job for us, however currently his vision and natural instinct to try and move the ball forward along the floor quickly is not upto standard to replace Alonso's role in the team.

IMO he could deputise for Mascherano and fullfill this function in the team, however at this stage in his development / career dictating the play and moving the ball forward varying the tempo etc is a step too far.

I don't want to get rid of the lad or anything like that, i like him and hes clearly progressed as a player - i just don't think hes first team material for a 50-60 game season looking to win all the competitions we enter at this moment in time.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

How do people think Ayala did when he came on? Just out of curiosity. In ll fairness, i thought he handled the game pretty well for an 18 year old making his debut in a team where everyones being a bit shit.

[JamieB]

Babel did, Lucas didn't. Far worse players than Lucas today mate. Could have been worse if it wasn't for a few timely interceptions from the lad. Did well to put an end to a few Lennon surges.

We lost the midfield. Lucas didn't offer anything. His play is too slow and predictable. I'm a fan of his but we needed Alonso today. Fully expect Gerrard in midfield and Yossi behind Torres.

[therockbox]

I think we have to put Lucas's performance into some kind of context.

With regards to his game today he played quite well, he delivered his passes, was busy in defensive situations, competed okay against a strong opposition in midfield.

However there is a distinction between Lucas delivering a performance to a certain standard, and delivering the goal of his role within the team. With Alonso gone the onus is on Lucas to become the link between defense and attack with Mascheranos main function to win the ball back. Within this role Lucas had a bad game today, because he did not effectively move the ball from defense to attack.

I believe Lucas certainly has attributes to do a job for us, however currently his vision and natural instinct to try and move the ball forward along the floor quickly is not upto standard to replace Alonso's role in the team.

He's never going to replace Alonso's role in the team though, and Rafa has intimated at that in numerous interviews by saying he wants Lucas (and Aquilani) to play higher up the pitch.  Judging him on how he steps into Alonso's shoes is grossly unfair and highly stupid when his manager is clearly giving him different instructions.

[Gnurglan]

How do people think Ayala did when he came on? Just out of curiosity. In ll fairness, i thought he handled the game pretty well for an 18 year old making his debut in a team where everyones being a bit shit.

He did well. One of few positives. It can't be easy to make your first game when the whole team is playing below par.

[therockbox]

We lost the midfield. Lucas didn't offer anything. His play is too slow and predictable. I'm a fan of his but we needed Alonso today. Fully expect Gerrard in midfield and Yossi behind Torres.

We lost all over the pitch.  Lucas can't be held responsible for the front four being absolute shit or the centre of defence going missing, no matter how much people like you would like him to.

[Leighc1979]

Anyone reckon Rafa might sacrifice Gerrard's position behind Torres when Aquilani's fit? I'm beginning to wonder.

[koppite118]

We need some more signings that's for sure, yossi sub behind babel no way.

Come on Uncle Sam back rafa and give him the cash...

[rafathegaffa83]

I'm not too perturbed about the result, more about the collective performance. We always struggle at White Hart Lane. Like Boro away it is always one of our bogey fixtures, we rarely seem to get a positive result there. We were really poor today and probably deserved to lose. A draw would have been highly fortuitous under the circumstances. The performance was mostly lethargic and lacking in leadership and communication.

We struggled against Spurs' physicality in the first half and whenever we responded to it, we were punished by Dowd. The refereeing was awful (the penalty incidents), but so was our overall play. We were sloppy in possession. We also far too easily resorted to hoofing it in the first half, when we needed the quick, short-passing style that worked so effective last style.

If it hadn't been for Johnson's run into the box or Reina's superb displays at the back, we could have been worse off. Our key players looked mostly jaded and indifferent (Torres, Gerrard, Carragher, Kuyt in the first half) and most were presumably unfit. Benayoun, Insua, Lucas and Reina were easily our best players. Benayoun was absolute magic when he came on and should start against Stoke. After a slow start, Johnson started to look the part. I thought Ayala looked composed in his brief cameo.

We will get better and presumably this game will serve as a wake-up call for some players. In light of the officiating, it could also perhaps allow Rafa to develop a siege mentality in the dressing room. Rafa will be anticipating one hell of a reaction from the lads in midweek.

We got what we deserved.  A few of our key players doesn't look like they are ready for the season -- I can see that injury might be playing a part, so it is still early days.

I thought we got a tough season opener and with the circumstances I would take 1 point before the game, so losing is not the end of the world.  The question is how do we react from it.

My message to Rafa is : play Yossi whenever you can, he is our best player at the moment. 

I completely agree.

[Notayesman]

I think we have to put Lucas's performance into some kind of context.

With regards to his game today he played quite well, he delivered his passes, was busy in defensive situations, competed okay against a strong opposition in midfield.

However there is a distinction between Lucas delivering a performance to a certain standard, and delivering the goal of his role within the team. With Alonso gone the onus is on Lucas to become the link between defense and attack with Mascheranos main function to win the ball back. Within this role Lucas had a bad game today, because he did not effectively move the ball from defense to attack.

I believe Lucas certainly has attributes to do a job for us, however currently his vision and natural instinct to try and move the ball forward along the floor quickly is not upto standard to replace Alonso's role in the team.

IMO he could deputise for Mascherano and fullfill this function in the team, however at this stage in his development / career dictating the play and moving the ball forward varying the tempo etc is a step too far.

I don't want to get rid of the lad or anything like that, i like him and hes clearly progressed as a player - i just don't think hes first team material for a 50-60 game season looking to win all the competitions we enter at this moment in time.

You're being very fucking easy on Masch there. If his sole function is to win the ball back then we sold the wrong midfielder this summer, sure we may as well get Momo back. Masch is capable of a lot more than that, I'm not looking for goals or assists but he's well able to get on the ball and play and he didn't do it enough today. Like I said on another thread he seems bullet proof while the younger player in the partnership takes all the flak. Also Lucas is better than a 4th choice mid which is essentially what you make him if you think of moving Gerrard back there.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

We lost the midfield. Lucas didn't offer anything. His play is too slow and predictable. I'm a fan of his but we needed Alonso today. Fully expect Gerrard in midfield and Yossi behind Torres.

Right, can you lot sort this shit out. Alonso is a Real Madrid player. Discuss our team, our options, our failings. But if you really think we lost because we needed alonso then you might as well not bother watching the rest of the season. Pining for a player who no longer plays for us is just a bit dim in my book.
I'm sick of reading how alonso was the be all and end all of our club. Cracking player yes, not ours anymore so I don't fucking care. How we move on is important. We haven't done a good job of it today, but rafa will get it right.

It would help with a team of match fit players.

[west_london_red]

Anyone reckon Rafa might sacrifice Gerrard's position behind Torres when Aquilani's fit? I'm beginning to wonder.

No

[Notayesman]

He's never going to replace Alonso's role in the team though, and Rafa has intimated at that in numerous interviews by saying he wants Lucas (and Aquilani) to play higher up the pitch.  Judging him on how he steps into Alonso's shoes is grossly unfair and highly stupid when his manager is clearly giving him different instructions.

Exactly, its Masch that has to step up where Alonso's role is concerned. He's now the sole holding player and needs to show for his CB's more.

[Red Genius]

He's never going to replace Alonso's role in the team though, and Rafa has intimated at that in numerous interviews by saying he wants Lucas (and Aquilani) to play higher up the pitch.  Judging him on how he steps into Alonso's shoes is grossly unfair and highly stupid when his manager is clearly giving him different instructions.

Alonso's function in the team will still need to be replaced, so whilst i take your point and it is unfair - Lucas is naturally because of the proximity of the position he plays in between defense and attack the natural player in terms of position to take Alonso's batton.

If Rafa doesn't want Lucas to perform this function, then who will? Mascherano? that i seriously doubt. To achieve that kind of change we would need to alter our tactics / approach and on todays evidence the pattern of play is identical to last year apart from we didn't have a successful link between defense and attack.

So i'm sorry i'm not buying that, in this system we need that link and with Lucas coming in for Alonso it is his responsibility and if that is indeed what Rafa has told him then hes putting Lucas between a rock and a hard place, because its untennable with our system.

[Red Genius]

You're being very fucking easy on Masch there. If his sole function is to win the ball back then we sold the wrong midfielder this summer, sure we may as well get Momo back. Masch is capable of a lot more than that, I'm not looking for goals or assists but he's well able to get on the ball and play and he didn't do it enough today. Like I said on another thread he seems bullet proof while the younger player in the partnership takes all the flak. Also Lucas is better than a 4th choice mid which is essentially what you make him if you think of moving Gerrard back there.

I agree mate, really i do... i love Masch, however i do think he is a luxury player because hes hardly Zidanesq on the ball is he now? we accept what Masch can and can't do, and to get the balance right you have to have a specialist next to him who can use the ball.

And at this moment in time Lucas is not that person. So if we accept this will be the way Rafa decides he wants the team to look, double pivot and Mascherano will be the first name on the team sheet for one of those two positions he has to be complimented with somebody who can pass the ball better than Lucas currently is.

I personally don't think Masch should have a devine place in the team, against weaker opposition he really is a luxury because of what he doesn't bring to the table on the ball.

I recognise that a lot of this post will get right up some people's noses. However i prefer to say how i see things and not bury my head in the sand (not to suggest you are)

The fact of the matter remains, Alonso's role in the team is not being replaced currently by any of the players being used in this current system.

[buchigo!]

He's never going to replace Alonso's role in the team though, and Rafa has intimated at that in numerous interviews by saying he wants Lucas (and Aquilani) to play higher up the pitch.  Judging him on how he steps into Alonso's shoes is grossly unfair and highly stupid when his manager is clearly giving him different instructions.

tend to agree with this mate- xabi was one of a kind. i've stated before that he was sort of our metronome- hey wait guys no one up front lateral pass to masch to buy time or hey let's go quick ball to dirk and so on and so forth. lucas for me is a cross between masch and stevie- can break up plays (which he did- brilliant cut to take away a chance in the box earlier) but at the same time can bring the ball forward so that stevie can get in the box and mix it up with the other attack three as well as to buy time if ever the opposing team counters (which he did in the, albeit in the second half-then again all of us weren't arsed in the first but anyway). at any rate, once the team settles down and gets to play more with each other, it will work. they were showing flashes of good playmaking earlier.

[smig]

Overall I thought as a team we were poor today. We lacked the cutting edge we had last season and didn't attack or defend well enough to get something from the match. Carra was very dodgey and didn't have a good game at all but I'll let him off and I expect him to put in a good display against Stoke in midweek. Up front Nando never really got going but I thought the service to him was very limited and him and Stevie never really got going as a partnership. Unfortunately Babel reverted back to his average form which frustrated us all so much last year, after a promising pre-season. I like Ryan and I think he has bags of potential if he's played correctly and given enough chances but this season really is make or break for him and he has to start delivering soon. One positive was Johnson's impact and the run which won us the penalty was something which Arbeloa would never have given us last season, as good a player as he is. Johnson's defensive qualities will be put under more scrutiny against better players this season but I thought he played pretty well today. He got forward well and looks as though he could add a dimension we lacked last season down the right side.

As for Lucas I thought he did okay today. If you watch Lucas closely he rarely does anything wrong. He's pretty good at breaking up opposition attacks, wins the ball back, is reasonably good at keeping hold of possession and gets forward well but it's what he doesn't offer which is also noticable. He lacks a killer ball and doesn't have the same kind of presence which Xabi had in the middle for us. Xabi was also better at getting out of tight corners than a lot of people give him credit for, whereas Lucas perhaps struggles when he's under pressure in possession.

Anyway look we didn't play well today and got what we deserved. The defence needs to tighten up significantly for the Stoke match but I expect us to win the game comfortably providing we can get an early goal and put pressure on them from the first whistle. We need to do this a lot more often this year, instead of easing our way into the game like we did on so many occassions last season at home which ultimately cost us.

[Neil D]

Shite performance.

God knows why Babel started instead of Yossi - he was our best outfield player when he came on.

Reina was excellent, just superb.

Personally I think people are being harsh on Carra - he played today even though he is carrying an injury from last week and he still made some key interceptions until opening a massive hole in his head that required 12 staples or whatever it was. It was hardly going to be a vintage performance from Jamie under those circumstances - whether it was his fault or not that he clashed heads he deserves credit for coming on bandaged up and trying to get us a result.

Thought neither Mascherano nor Lucas were good enough today and Gerrard didn't look fit.

[Notayesman]

I agree mate, really i do... i love Masch, however i do think he is a luxury player because hes hardly Zidanesq on the ball is he now? we accept what Masch can and can't do, and to get the balance right you have to have a specialist next to him who can use the ball.

And at this moment in time Lucas is not that person. So if we accept this will be the way Rafa decides he wants the team to look, double pivot and Mascherano will be the first name on the team sheet for one of those two positions he has to be complimented with somebody who can pass the ball better than Lucas currently is.

I personally don't think Masch should have a devine place in the team, against weaker opposition he really is a luxury because of what he doesn't bring to the table on the ball.

I recognise that a lot of this post will get right up some people's noses. However i prefer to say how i see things and not bury my head in the sand (not to suggest you are)

The fact of the matter remains, Alonso's role in the team is not being replaced currently by any of the players being used in this current system.

He doesn't have to be Zidanesque on the ball, he doesn't even need to be Xabiesque. Look at Roy Keane, not the most naturally gifted or creative on the ball but he was well able to run a game and Masch is more than capable of it too. I've seen him do it for Argentina enough times, especially in the Copa America of 2007.

The fact is we're not replacing the Alonso role, its clear Rafa has other ideas such as one holding player (Masch) and one roaming midfielder with license to support a bit more (Lucas/Aquilani) as opposed to the two deeper lying midfielders we used previously Xabi/Masch/Hamman/Momo/Igor.

I know Lucas is the one that's going to carry the can in the next few weeks and that's very unfair. Masch is going to have to step up and do more as well and like I said I believe he's more than capable, but he didn't show it today and if anything Lucas was the better of the two.

[Roady]

Some proper twats o here, and Lucas bashers again.he was by no means the worst player on the pitch not by a long shot. We lost and frankly didnt deserve to win, move on.Stoke next, lets see a reaction,3 points please.

[fowlermagic]

Not much to say about the game today as if you look at the season as a 38 stride race we are still in the blocks. Too many lads looks like they still are on their summer holidays and while its early days a win is already a must in the next game.

Long way to go but love if we add one more creative force to the starting 11.

[Leighc1979]

No

Class.

[Notayesman]

Shite performance.

God knows why Babel started instead of Yossi - he was our best outfield player when he came on.

Reina was excellent, just superb.

Personally I think people are being harsh on Carra - he played today even though he is carrying an injury from last week and he still made some key interceptions until opening a massive hole in his head that required 12 staples or whatever it was. It was hardly going to be a vintage performance from Jamie under those circumstances - whether it was his fault or not that he clashed heads he deserves credit for coming on bandaged up and trying to get us a result.

Thought neither Mascherano nor Lucas were good enough today and Gerrard didn't look fit.

Babel was given a real chance and a real show of confidence today and simply shat all over it. When you see performances like that today, and being honest you see them more often than the Madrid ones, you begin to wonder if he'll ever cut it here. He was just completely on the periphery and lost the ball when he did occasionally have it. Riera as average as he can be sometimes just doesn't play that badly and at least retains possession.

[SadRed]

They talk some shite, but half the time, they also talk sense but a lot of our fans are too blind to see it as if no one has the right to say anything negative about a club of our stature that hasnt won a league title in 19 years.

They have the right to say logic, but not bollocks.

[reniformis]

Also Lucas is better than a 4th choice mid which is essentially what you make him if you think of moving Gerrard back there.

But Gerrard is better than him back there. We are in the business of winning games, and many of us feel that Gerrard in central midfield with Yossi in front is better for the team than Lucas in midfield with Gerrard in front. I'm sorry if that pushes Lucas out of the picture but if we send out the same team as last year for 40 games with the only change being Lucas for Alonso then we aren't going to be as good.