Author Topic: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**  (Read 354397 times)

Offline PaulF

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4440 on: December 2, 2015, 02:23:46 pm »
Am I remembering wrongly or did the Moff write that? If so, he could just be re-using one of his old ideas?


The Moff :-)

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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4441 on: December 5, 2015, 09:05:08 pm »
A new Sonic screwdriver... Just in time for Christmas

Copout ending when there was so much promise....


Offline Redman0151

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4442 on: December 5, 2015, 09:07:04 pm »
The fuck was that? :lmao :lmao

Sorry that was just really bad, such a pity after last week. How did Ashielda learn to fly a TARDIS? Why did Clara make it so incredibly obvious who she was (even flying off in a TARDIS whilst the doctor was right there) when the entire point was that he was supposed to forget her? He's not dumb, he must have known she was Clara!

Also the idea of a Clara/Me spinoff, no ta

It was cool to see Gallifrey that's about it.
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Offline Les Willis

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4443 on: December 5, 2015, 09:15:30 pm »
That seemed to be a collection of fan based set pieces without any sort of plot.

Offline Mouth

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4444 on: December 5, 2015, 09:16:35 pm »
Ok, yes, the elevation of the companion bollocks reached too far this time. That was just really fucking annoying on a number of levels.

I wouldn't mind if Clara was the bestest ever companion ever or their relationship was the greatest, where they did the greatest things together and were better than everyone else. It just wasn't though, they had a real hard time, they just didn't ever really gel.
Also, he's lost companions before, he gets over it, they are like sodding dogs with him, they leave or die, he's sad for a bit, but he just gets another one. Somehow Clara is different? She wasn't and they never really wrote it well enough for her to be seen as such, she wasn't a great loss.

As soon as she showed up I just went oh for fucks sake! Its just made the entire series pointless, everything they set up in story terms, a cheap trick. Then the death itself, being quite bad for him, taking a lot out of him on a emotional level, gone, all pointless. All the great drama of last week, doing 4 billion years torture, for that? Gallifrey being hidden/lost and he cant find it, time wars, daleks do dah do and nah lets chuck it all in to save this fatuous bint.
I'm sure when he gets around to going back, the rest of the Time Lords wont have fucking forgotten her and will tell him all about her. Jesus this is just terrible writing. oh and wasn't it a big deal him finding them again? But nope!

In short, this series is a dead loss. Summed up, the companion makes a monkey out of him and rides off into the sunset with a tardis, what the fucking fuck for fucks sake!

I don't usually get so annoyed, but Moffat can go fuck himself with a rusty barbwire dildo.
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Offline Red Ol

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4445 on: December 5, 2015, 09:18:10 pm »
Utter......fucking.......rubbish.
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Offline Redman0151

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4446 on: December 5, 2015, 09:21:38 pm »
Ok, yes, the elevation of the companion bollocks reached too far this time. That was just really fucking annoying on a number of levels.

I wouldn't mind if Clara was the bestest ever companion ever or their relationship was the greatest, where they did the greatest things together and were better than everyone else. It just wasn't though, they had a real hard time, they just didn't ever really gel.
Also, he's lost companions before, he gets over it, they are like sodding dogs with him, they leave or die, he's sad for a bit, but he just gets another one. Somehow Clara is different? She wasn't and they never really wrote it well enough for her to be seen as such, she wasn't a great loss.

As soon as she showed up I just went oh for fucks sake! Its just made the entire series pointless, everything they set up in story terms, a cheap trick. Then the death itself, being quite bad for him, taking a lot out of him on a emotional level, gone, all pointless. All the great drama of last week, doing 4 billion years torture, for that? Gallifrey being hidden/lost and he cant find it, time wars, daleks do dah do and nah lets chuck it all in to save this fatuous bint.
I'm sure when he gets around to going back, the rest of the Time Lords wont have fucking forgotten her and will tell him all about her. Jesus this is just terrible writing. oh and wasn't it a big deal him finding them again? But nope!

In short, this series is a dead loss. Summed up, the companion makes a monkey out of him and rides off into the sunset with a tardis, what the fucking fuck for fucks sake!

I don't usually get so annoyed, but Moffat can go fuck himself with a rusty barbwire dildo.

I won't defend the shitty writing and relationship of Clara, but in the context of the show I guess Clara is one of the most important companions he's ever had. She convinced him not to genocide his entire race and the Daleks (thus saving Gallifrey), and she convinced the Time Lords to give him more regenerations when he was about to die. And that whole stuff with the Great Intelligence where she split herself up into his timeline.

It was poorly written, but I sorta understand why he viewed her as special, especially compared to people like Martha or Donna
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Offline Anthony

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4447 on: December 5, 2015, 09:32:57 pm »
Ok, yes, the elevation of the companion bollocks reached too far this time. That was just really fucking annoying on a number of levels.

I wouldn't mind if Clara was the bestest ever companion ever or their relationship was the greatest, where they did the greatest things together and were better than everyone else. It just wasn't though, they had a real hard time, they just didn't ever really gel.
Also, he's lost companions before, he gets over it, they are like sodding dogs with him, they leave or die, he's sad for a bit, but he just gets another one. Somehow Clara is different? She wasn't and they never really wrote it well enough for her to be seen as such, she wasn't a great loss.

As soon as she showed up I just went oh for fucks sake! Its just made the entire series pointless, everything they set up in story terms, a cheap trick. Then the death itself, being quite bad for him, taking a lot out of him on a emotional level, gone, all pointless. All the great drama of last week, doing 4 billion years torture, for that? Gallifrey being hidden/lost and he cant find it, time wars, daleks do dah do and nah lets chuck it all in to save this fatuous bint.
I'm sure when he gets around to going back, the rest of the Time Lords wont have fucking forgotten her and will tell him all about her. Jesus this is just terrible writing. oh and wasn't it a big deal him finding them again? But nope!

In short, this series is a dead loss. Summed up, the companion makes a monkey out of him and rides off into the sunset with a tardis, what the fucking fuck for fucks sake!

I don't usually get so annoyed, but Moffat can go fuck himself with a rusty barbwire dildo.

I thought you'd like it...! ;D
Spoiler
With hindsight it was quite obvious really - Clara appears to all the Doctors and puts him right. I just spent the whole episode waiting for her to serve him souffle or tell him ' You clever boy'.

Anyway, enough of that, River's back - do you think she's suppose to recognise him this time?

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Offline Mouth

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4448 on: December 5, 2015, 09:37:33 pm »
I won't defend the shitty writing and relationship of Clara, but in the context of the show I guess Clara is one of the most important companions he's ever had. She convinced him not to genocide his entire race and the Daleks (thus saving Gallifrey), and she convinced the Time Lords to give him more regenerations when he was about to die. And that whole stuff with the Great Intelligence where she split herself up into his timeline.

It was poorly written, but I sorta understand why he viewed her as special, especially compared to people like Martha or Donna
That is in fact the problem with her. They used her as a plot device, Clara ex machina, time and again. They never fully developed her character or their relationship. Which means when it comes to this kind of story, her elevation to the one person he would break all the rules for, possibly risk destroying the universe for is Clara, the drone. It rings false and doesn't work.

I was actually expecting they were going to make her the hybrid, that she is actually his daughter, which made me go eugh, but at the same time would have worked as his motivation to do and risk all to save her. It would have explained why he kept her about, why she meant so much, why she was able to do the things she did.
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Offline Les Willis

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4449 on: December 5, 2015, 10:17:32 pm »
Excellent summing up there Mouth. For me Clara never connected as a companion, so I was a bit meh about her death initially and subsequent Doctor angst afterwards. Why go out of your way to being her back when you didn't with Rose, Amy or even Adric (who I felt sadder about than Clara dying).

I dunno she just never worked for me from the off. Moffatt just seems shit at writing decent companion parts.

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4450 on: December 5, 2015, 11:31:42 pm »
So in all likelihood, the most annoying companion and second worst recurring character of recent times (Danny Pink has that nailed for good) will return...what joy...but hang on a sec...
Spoiler
here comes River again
[close]

Oh just fuck this family based entertainment shit right off and give us some dark stories/arcs, especially while we have an actor made for them.
AHA!

Offline Trousers

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4451 on: December 6, 2015, 01:43:02 am »
Amy was a far better and more endearing companion than Clara ever was.
Karen Gillan is a far more skilled actress as well.

As for the episode, utter wank.
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Online Trada

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4452 on: December 6, 2015, 03:25:47 am »
I thought it was brilliant.
« Last Edit: December 6, 2015, 10:38:05 am by SP »
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Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Skeeve

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4453 on: December 6, 2015, 05:31:22 am »
I dunno she just never worked for me from the off. Moffatt just seems shit at writing decent companion parts.

For me, it isn't that the companions are badly written so much as the focus and balance has shifted far too much in their favour in new who, be it for politcal correctness reasons or something else they are being written as equal or better than an alien who has 1000's of years of experience at doing what he does.

Offline Ultimate Bromance

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4454 on: December 6, 2015, 08:12:28 am »
I liked that they switched the doctor/companion role in that thing at the end, but yeah what a shit finale. I'd go into more detail, but then I'd have to put spoilers and I can't even be arsed doing that. I liked bits and bobs of it, but 2 episodes in a 12 episode season explicitly devoted to cramming it down our throats that Clara is the bestest their ever was and how sad we should all be at her parting with the Doctor? Piss off.

Hopefully whoever they get in as a companion next season is second fiddle to Capaldi and not the other way round, otherwise the series could fuck off on another 15 year hiatus as far as I'm concerned.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4455 on: December 6, 2015, 08:31:06 am »
Thought it was rubbish

Oh. By the way

Spoiler

I told you she'd be right back.. ;)

[close]
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4456 on: December 6, 2015, 08:57:27 am »
Am I the only one a little bored at all these deep storylines that go on and and on and on?

If they were rare, they'd be great. But every series has this deep background.

I remember the days when he'd jaunt off somewhere, find a problem, maybe spend 4 or 5 episodes sorting it out then would jaunt off for his next adventure.

I'd like a few more stories that are just stories across a series. So many areas they could still explore and do.
« Last Edit: December 6, 2015, 12:01:16 pm by Andy @ Allerton »
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4457 on: December 6, 2015, 10:29:26 am »
Moffat just can't let his characters die can he. He's now somehow effectively made Clara kind of immortal (whilst also about to die). Odd, odd episode.

Also a bit of a stretch that he spent centuries looking for Gallifrey and then when he finds it he forgets he was ever looking for it (and seemed to always know where it was). Interesting to see the second consecutive male to female regeneration.

Saw a great tweet yesterday aswell, the Doctor will undergo 4.5bn years of torture to save Clara but won't pop to say hi to Martha.

As a nerd point, also a bit miffed that he's decided he can get around the fixed point in time thing...

Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4458 on: December 6, 2015, 10:39:44 am »
But he has not got around the fixed point in time. He has just postponed it happening in subjective time.

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4459 on: December 6, 2015, 11:02:38 am »
I thought it was brilliant.

Really I got a warning for that it was a joke.
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Offline sideshowme

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4460 on: December 6, 2015, 11:50:10 am »
i would go into detail about all the many things that were wrong with that steaming pile of moffat, but mouth has already taken the words out my er... mouth.  you know it's time for moffat to go when he turns in something so dreadfully fanwanky and bombastic it makes RTD's worst excesses look tame by comparison.

the worst thing is that possibly the two best actors to have the role as doctor have had to endure this continuous shite.  pointless emoting followed by a great big deus-ex-reset-switch (literally, in this case).

still, it was amusing to see that the capital of gallifrey appeared to be constructed entirely of dildos.

and please, BBC, dump moffat before that spin-off idea gains any traction.  hopefully that ashildr/clara-piloted tardis simply explodes due to the sheer quantity of smugness it contains.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4461 on: December 6, 2015, 12:02:31 pm »
Really I got a warning for that it was a joke.

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Offline MagicHat

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4462 on: December 6, 2015, 02:55:26 pm »
Andy, it would be a nice change to do a five episode storyline.

In terms of overall episode quality, it wasn't bad but had a few scenes that didn't work
Spoiler
Easiest coup in the history of mankind. The Doctor doing that could have made an episode by itself
[close]
. The problem was, possibly for the first time for me with Doctor Who, I didn't buy the premise whatsoever. It felt, as Mouth and others have said, like Moffat fanfiction and the ending undermined previous episodes.

I think the basic storyline
Spoiler
Doctor crazed by grief does something stupid
[close]
could work for a different companion but it would have to be a great companion. I like Clara but most of her best moments were when playing other version of Clara, she was not such a strong figure that it made sense that the Doctor did that for her but not for the Pond's or Donna? My initial guess at what was going on might have been better
Spoiler
I thought it was another version of Clara, that the Clara we know was still dead.
[close]


Spoiler
-I like the Old Tardis

-I do enjoy the Sisters of Kain

-The dying, haunted Dalek was a very good moment

-Wish they hadn't reversed Clara's death. I doubt we will see the Clara/Me too much over the future but it undermined the death and Clara's moment of bravery.

-I did like that the Doctor lost his memory this time and how he handled it
[close]

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4463 on: December 6, 2015, 03:09:42 pm »
I don't think it was so much about her being an especially great companion compared to Donna or Amy so much as it was due to her dying, the former's memory wipe before her exit saved her life and the latter was still able to choose to live out her life with Rory.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4464 on: December 6, 2015, 06:19:06 pm »
What a fucking awful episode.  Some great concepts and ideas but as usual it was all steamrollered by Moffat's fucking ego.

Spoiler
Ultimately the entire hour long episode served as a vehicle for a dodgy sixty seconds to open the door for the Doctor to regenerate as a different race or gender.  That was the sole purpose of the episode.  And I'm fucking livid over it.
[close]

I really loved some of the snappy dialogue and I especially loved the TARDIS with the old door sound effects.  However...

Spoiler
Again, Moffat the bullshitter.  If that's the last we've seen of Clara I'll suck my own fucking big toe.  Even when she's supposed to be fucking dead she's still ruling the roost.
[close]

What a damp squib of finale.  Even worse than the opening Dalek double header.
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Offline Les Willis

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4465 on: December 6, 2015, 06:37:44 pm »
I'm still annoyed by the fan wankery of that episode..

We now have an immortal and an undead person/zombie? running around the universe in a Diner shaped classic tardis..  :butt

Offline PaulF

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4466 on: December 6, 2015, 08:54:46 pm »
I quite enjoyed it. Guess I am one of the 'fans' rather than a critic. I guess on the whole, I'm simpler and watch less telly than most ( unless we count talking cartoon pigs).
Subconsciously I liked what somone above described as set pieces. Doc with guitar, diner , old tardis, ashilda, a dalek  . timr lord president, the crib, soldiers following the doctor. All nice stuff tenuously strung together. Much preferred Amy , and I can still visualise adric's death ( although in my memory o don't have to suffer thirty year old BBC special effects), but I don't care that the doctor worked harder to save Clara
 Previous companions are gone, there is no comparison.
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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4467 on: December 6, 2015, 10:16:43 pm »
I quite enjoyed it. Guess I am one of the 'fans' rather than a critic. I guess on the whole, I'm simpler and watch less telly than most ( unless we count talking cartoon pigs).
Subconsciously I liked what somone above described as set pieces. Doc with guitar, diner , old tardis, ashilda, a dalek  . timr lord president, the crib, soldiers following the doctor. All nice stuff tenuously strung together. Much preferred Amy , and I can still visualise adric's death ( although in my memory o don't have to suffer thirty year old BBC special effects), but I don't care that the doctor worked harder to save Clara
 Previous companions are gone, there is no comparison.

The effects in the 80s were still more convincing than Adric.

More a coda than a finale, a bold, brave choice for the end of the season, instead of the Doctor going all out to save the entire universe from evil once again, we got a much smaller, more personal story. Still not sure they quite pulled it off as well as they could, and I don't know what the kids will have made of it all, but another absolute storming performance from Capaldi and some lovely touches for long time fans to ponder over without seriously rewriting the series history or giving away too much information.
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Offline Skeeve

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4468 on: December 6, 2015, 11:49:48 pm »
What a fucking awful episode.  Some great concepts and ideas but as usual it was all steamrollered by Moffat's fucking ego.

Spoiler
Ultimately the entire hour long episode served as a vehicle for a dodgy sixty seconds to open the door for the Doctor to regenerate as a different race or gender.  That was the sole purpose of the episode.  And I'm fucking livid over it.
[close]

I fear you are right about their intentions, but maybe if we are lucky these other regenerations like the one in this episode and master/missy will suffice to appease those who are asking for more than that.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4469 on: December 7, 2015, 09:52:03 am »
I fear you are right about their intentions, but maybe if we are lucky these other regenerations like the one in this episode and master/missy will suffice to appease those who are asking for more than that.

Yeah this is a somewhat pointless, rambling rant.  Read at your own risk!  ::)

Spoiler
I'm honestly left trying to imagine if there's black people out there saying to themselves, "You know, I'd watch Doctor Who, but The Doctor is never black."  Or wondering if there are any women who might say, "You know, I'd watch Doctor Who, but The Doctor never regenerates as a woman".  I come up empty.

What we do get are people who say, "I love Doctor Who because it's so diverse.  It's had strong black characters; strong female companions; we've seen companions evolve and grow and become better people.  We've seen an omnisexual Time Agent, gay couples and inter-species relationships, plus a transexual actor."

But it just doesn't seem to be enough for some people  I'm getting hit with the same old arguments.  Some are trying to say it's part of the internal logic of the show, which I then point out has been warped by the writers - chiefly Moffat - to make this possible.  Then I actually had somebody saying to me that the odds of the Doctor regenerating as a white male every single time was astronomical, whilst another said it was consistent with established beliefs in reincarnation.

It's a TV show peeps I said.  It's however the writers want it to be.

So then I naturally had to deal with the people who said, "I don't care - I want the best actor for the role, regardless of skin colour or gender.  Are you saying it shouldn't be like that?"  At which point I bowed out of the discussion.  I guess I'm just a racist, sexist traditionalist!

This all started with the half-human bullshit of the telemovie, where the director said "I had to rationalise why the guy spent so much time on Earth."  I mean WHY do you have to rationalise it?  The Doctor is an ALIEN - why should anything he does make sense? 

Which brings about the response, well then in that case why are you so hung up on the Doctor being a white male?  He could be a spider if he wanted to be.  My answer is that we relate to the Doctor through his companions.  That was always the point of the show - they represent US. 

Mucking around with gender and ethnicity of the Doctor - nobody ever questioned it in the past and it never stopped anybody enjoying a kids' TV show.  It was just taken as a given and nobody considered it racist or sexist in the context of the Doctor himself.  Now it's been put on the table and it's a right ugly can of worms imo. 

The Doctor and the TARDIS are the two constants.  You wouldn't change the TARDIS from a Police Box - why should we think about changing The Doctor?
[close]
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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4470 on: December 7, 2015, 10:26:17 am »
The effects in the 80s were still more convincing than Adric.

Good point. Adric made Danny Pink look like an Oscar nominee.....

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Offline james791

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4471 on: December 7, 2015, 12:30:11 pm »
I really wanted to like this episode, but for the fact that Clara bloody survived, made it pretty shit in the end.

Like many others ,I'm not that keen on Clara. A smug, knowing side kick might work with the correct type of character or actress (Emma Peel? Romana?) but it just didnt click for me. Half of it is the writing of her, the other half the actress herself.

However...i find it difficult to even be that bothered in the end as yet again, another bloody death was reversed/circumvented/ignored. If you know that the possibility of danger or death is constantly going to be reverse, you lose all dramatic tension. Why would anyone be emotionally invested into Clara's death two episodes earlier, knowing full well she will be back?

And the finding of Gallifrey again-started well, but surely this should have been a bigger deal? it seemed instead to just have become a convenient plot device to allow a bit of tech to snatch Clara from her certain doom.

Some great performances in there-I did like the newly regenerated Time lord character (can't remember his/her name) and the throwing Rassilon off the planet..but overall the story was the same old shit. Such a shame.
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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4472 on: December 7, 2015, 12:33:09 pm »
It was the most obvious thing ever that she was going to be back.

I'm just surprised that anyone is surprised.
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Offline sideshowme

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4473 on: December 7, 2015, 01:19:01 pm »
Yeah this is a somewhat pointless, rambling rant.  Read at your own risk!  ::)

Spoiler
I'm honestly left trying to imagine if there's black people out there saying to themselves, "You know, I'd watch Doctor Who, but The Doctor is never black."  Or wondering if there are any women who might say, "You know, I'd watch Doctor Who, but The Doctor never regenerates as a woman".  I come up empty.

What we do get are people who say, "I love Doctor Who because it's so diverse.  It's had strong black characters; strong female companions; we've seen companions evolve and grow and become better people.  We've seen an omnisexual Time Agent, gay couples and inter-species relationships, plus a transexual actor."

But it just doesn't seem to be enough for some people  I'm getting hit with the same old arguments.  Some are trying to say it's part of the internal logic of the show, which I then point out has been warped by the writers - chiefly Moffat - to make this possible.  Then I actually had somebody saying to me that the odds of the Doctor regenerating as a white male every single time was astronomical, whilst another said it was consistent with established beliefs in reincarnation.

It's a TV show peeps I said.  It's however the writers want it to be.

So then I naturally had to deal with the people who said, "I don't care - I want the best actor for the role, regardless of skin colour or gender.  Are you saying it shouldn't be like that?"  At which point I bowed out of the discussion.  I guess I'm just a racist, sexist traditionalist!

This all started with the half-human bullshit of the telemovie, where the director said "I had to rationalise why the guy spent so much time on Earth."  I mean WHY do you have to rationalise it?  The Doctor is an ALIEN - why should anything he does make sense? 

Which brings about the response, well then in that case why are you so hung up on the Doctor being a white male?  He could be a spider if he wanted to be.  My answer is that we relate to the Doctor through his companions.  That was always the point of the show - they represent US. 

Mucking around with gender and ethnicity of the Doctor - nobody ever questioned it in the past and it never stopped anybody enjoying a kids' TV show.  It was just taken as a given and nobody considered it racist or sexist in the context of the Doctor himself.  Now it's been put on the table and it's a right ugly can of worms imo. 

The Doctor and the TARDIS are the two constants.  You wouldn't change the TARDIS from a Police Box - why should we think about changing The Doctor?
[close]

i guess i must be in the minority on here who would quite like a doctor of a different gender or ethnicity - as long as it's the right actor.  the actor i would most like to be the doctor is black, and there are a few women who i think could do a good job.  i don't demand it, or think it's racism (although there is a lot of that in doctor who) or sexism, but it would just be a nice change in an increasingly predictable show.

it's a TV show, so it doesn't really matter, and rants like this are puzzling to me.  my only caveat is that no female doctor should be allowed while moffat is in charge.  that would be the ultimate train wreck.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4474 on: December 7, 2015, 02:13:16 pm »
i guess i must be in the minority on here who would quite like a doctor of a different gender or ethnicity - as long as it's the right actor.  the actor i would most like to be the doctor is black, and there are a few women who i think could do a good job.  i don't demand it, or think it's racism (although there is a lot of that in doctor who) or sexism, but it would just be a nice change in an increasingly predictable show.

it's a TV show, so it doesn't really matter, and rants like this are puzzling to me.  my only caveat is that no female doctor should be allowed while moffat is in charge.  that would be the ultimate train wreck.

I have no problem with them choosing an actor of a different race, I think a female Doctor would be a mistake, though. It comes up all the time, so maybe they should just do it to get it over with and then people could finally shut up about it, but I do think it would mean losing a unique male role model, which would be a shame, and I think part of the problem is that the vast majority of TV, certainly British TV, is made for a mainly female audience.

If you want a female-led sci-fi drama show, make one. Make enough noise that the production companies make one. I'd be happy to watch it.

But don't take Doctor Who away from all the little boys in the world who don't want to be footballers or policemen and who need that positive, intelligent male role model in their lives. God knows, I did. And I had to make do with Colin Baker. If Bonnie Langford had played the Doctor, I don't know how I would have turned out.
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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4475 on: December 7, 2015, 02:27:16 pm »
I have no problem with them choosing an actor of a different race, I think a female Doctor would be a mistake, though. It comes up all the time, so maybe they should just do it to get it over with and then people could finally shut up about it, but I do think it would mean losing a unique male role model, which would be a shame, and I think part of the problem is that the vast majority of TV, certainly British TV, is made for a mainly female audience.

i'm not sure i agree with that last bit at all.  in terms of drama, and outside of soaps, i don't think that statement is true at all.  and i don't think it would mean losing a unique male role model - it would just be making it even easier for the character to be a role model for a greater number of people.

Quote
If you want a female-led sci-fi drama show, make one. Make enough noise that the production companies make one. I'd be happy to watch it.

it's in progress ;)  trying to secure funding...

Quote
But don't take Doctor Who away from all the little boys in the world who don't want to be footballers or policemen and who need that positive, intelligent male role model in their lives. God knows, I did. And I had to make do with Colin Baker. If Bonnie Langford had played the Doctor, I don't know how I would have turned out.

if bonnie langford had played the doctor then the show wouldn't exist now - but obviously that's a straw man, as nobody's asking for a token woman.  and i agree that boys need that intelligent role model - but so do girls.  the doctor is a unique character in that he can appeal to girls and boys (men and women) so there's no reason not to vary the gender now and then.  and i would argue that a lot of boys nowadays could do with an intelligent female role model they are already invested in because of his previous incarnations and the imagery surrounding her - just as long as she isn't written by steven moffat.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4476 on: December 7, 2015, 02:28:59 pm »
On another note, the "why does the Doctor spend so much time on Earth" question was answered a very long time ago.

In the first storyline, the Doctor and his granddaughter Susan are hiding out in London in 1963, she is attending the local school and two of her teachers, Ian and Barbara, follow her home one day to try and work out why she is so strange.

The Doctor panics and kidnaps the pair, but quickly regrets it and tries to take them home. He has little to no control over the TARDIS at this point, but as he keeps trying and trying to get them back, they naturally tend to head back towards Earth, England and the mid-20th Century. The TARDIS basically gets into the habit of going to Earth every other trip. Over time, the Doctor ends up taking on other companions, usually from the same period, and their natural curiosity about the future and past of their own world, plus his great affection for the place, make it the obvious destination.

When he is finally caught by the Time Lords, they exile him to Earth, recognising that he has a deep affinity for the planet, and has friends and contacts there (The Brigadier, chiefly) who will help him settle. It's also clear that they send him there to intervene in what is suddenly a huge number of invasion attempts, and the presence of the Time Lord criminal The Master on Earth at the time may be another reason.

The Doctor spends years working at UNIT and when he leaves, it is with another Earth-based companion, Sarah Jane Smith.

His next companion, Leela, is descended from human space explorers, so he takes her back to show her what her homeworld was like.

By the time Romana comes along, he is pretty much obsessed with the place. It has become a second home for him. No wonder, when you consider he's spent a good part of the last 200-300 years of his life there by that point.

Not long after that, he picks up Tegan and spends a couple of years trying to get her back to Heathrow Airport, in a similar fashion to Ian and Barbara in the first place, although he now has a far better handle on controlling the TARDIS, they seem to get knocked off course all the time.

Then it's Peri, and Mel and Ace, all from Earth, all want to see the past and future, he is basically educating Ace for some grand plan, although we never really find out what.

Apart from the Paul McGann thing, the next time we catch up with him he's just regenerated after the end of the Time War, he thinks he's destroyed his home world, so obviously he's going to head to his adopted planet to lick his wounds, and there he meets Rose, and for the first time ever actually invites someone to travel with him. And guess where she wants to go, etc, etc, etc.

No mystery there at all.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4477 on: December 7, 2015, 02:33:05 pm »
i'm not sure i agree with that last bit at all.  in terms of drama, and outside of soaps, i don't think that statement is true at all.  and i don't think it would mean losing a unique male role model - it would just be making it even easier for the character to be a role model for a greater number of people.

Course it is. Crime drama, police procedurals, medical drama, soap (why are we not counting soap, that's like half the drama output?) all appeal more to women than they do to men.

Quote
if bonnie langford had played the doctor then the show wouldn't exist now - but obviously that's a straw man, as nobody's asking for a token woman.  and i agree that boys need that intelligent role model - but so do girls.  the doctor is a unique character in that he can appeal to girls and boys (men and women) so there's no reason not to vary the gender now and then.  and i would argue that a lot of boys nowadays could do with an intelligent female role model they are already invested in because of his previous incarnations and the imagery surrounding her - just as long as she isn't written by steven moffat.

Your use of the word "nowadays" undermines anything else you say. You are Michael Owen and I claim my £5.

If there isn't a good intelligent role model for girls, the answer to that is not to take away one from the boys, which is what you'd be doing. Kids haven't changed that much. There's a big difference between male and female role models.

As I say, if you want a show with a strong female role model lead, I'm right behind that. But it doesn't have to be Doctor Who. Get your own.
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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4478 on: December 7, 2015, 02:50:01 pm »
Course it is. Crime drama, police procedurals, medical drama, soap (why are we not counting soap, that's like half the drama output?) all appeal more to women than they do to men.

fair enough - if you want to include soaps in "dramas" then i guess you're right.  i was thinking of a better standard of authored drama than stuff that's just churned out.  i agree on medical drama, but it was ever thus.  crime dramas and police procedurals?  no chance.

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Your use of the word "nowadays" undermines anything else you say. You are Michael Owen and I claim my £5.

what's wrong with 'nowadays'?  people are so picky nowadays... :)

Quote
If there isn't a good intelligent role model for girls, the answer to that is not to take away one from the boys, which is what you'd be doing. Kids haven't changed that much. There's a big difference between male and female role models.

no you wouldn't be taking a role model away from the boys.  you're assuming that boys would completely lose interest if there were a female lead, even if the aliens, the tardis, the explosions, the monsters were all still present.  i just don't buy that at all.

and if there is a difference between male and female role models, then there shouldn't be.  again, why should the doctor's character, actions, decisions, ethics, morals (all the things that make a role model a role model) be any different just because she happens to have breasts?  that's what's unique about the show - the face and body may change, but the character prevails.

Quote
As I say, if you want a show with a strong female role model lead, I'm right behind that. But it doesn't have to be Doctor Who.

again: why not, other than "i don't want it"?
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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #4479 on: December 7, 2015, 02:55:56 pm »
fair enough - if you want to include soaps in "dramas" then i guess you're right.  i was thinking of a better standard of authored drama than stuff that's just churned out.  i agree on medical drama, but it was ever thus.  crime dramas and police procedurals?  no chance.

what's wrong with 'nowadays'?  people are so picky nowadays... :)

no you wouldn't be taking a role model away from the boys.  you're assuming that boys would completely lose interest if there were a female lead, even if the aliens, the tardis, the explosions, the monsters were all still present.  i just don't buy that at all.

and if there is a difference between male and female role models, then there shouldn't be.  again, why should the doctor's character, actions, decisions, ethics, morals (all the things that make a role model a role model) be any different just because she happens to have breasts?  that's what's unique about the show - the face and body may change, but the character prevails.

again: why not, other than "i don't want it"?

If it doesn't matter to young boys where the Doctor is a man or a woman, why does it matter to young girls that the Doctor is a man?

Agree with Nessy here, make a new Sci-Fi show with a female lead if it's so important. They already had the Sarah Jane spin off there in recent years. There's one there waiting to be made with Ashielda and Clara anyway  ;D
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