Topic: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**

[Alan_X]

Well I enjoyed it.

[Les Willis]

I wasn't as keen on this episode, but then I'd had a few and lost track of it slightly.

[Trousers]

Big shouty bore fest.
This series is unravelling at the seams.

[Trada]

Really enjoyed that.

The Doctor is so much a Corbynite.

[KillieRed]

I like Clara.

Yep.


Despite her weird nose. In fact, probably because of it.

[MagicHat]

Better then first episode of this two parter (not hard), decent enough and more cohesive but ran out of steam near the end.

[Red Beret]

[Titi Camara]

Big shouty bore fest.
This series is unravelling at the seams.

Totally agree. Sat here hungover listening to someone shouting, a lot, is not my idea of entertainment! Dreadful!

[Robotforaday]

This series has been enjoyable, but would be dramatically improved by the death of Clara.

[Les Willis]

Yesterday's episode was better than the first one. I'm not a fan of the modern unit stories though and generally prefer the less Earth based stories.

[Mouth]

I enjoyed it, I liked the depth you get from a weary old man who has seen it all, who has seen too much and done terrible things. Capaldi played that well.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I enjoyed it, I liked the depth you get from a weary old man who has seen it all, who has seen too much and done terrible things. Capaldi played that well.

I thought the speech he gave was terrific and very moving.

[JerseyKloppite]

Good episode.

I hope they bring them back. One of the best new villains, a great concept.

[Red Beret]

Yes it's a colossal rip off, but a lot of artistic work has gone into it so it's worth sharing imo.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/IpVUCv6q5Lg&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/IpVUCv6q5Lg&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

[SP]

Good episode.
 I hope they bring them back. One of the best new villains, a great concept.

I don't. I think it was a mistake bringing them back after Blink.

[Red Beret]

I don't. I think it was a mistake bringing them back after Blink.

It's using them properly that's key.  The River Song episodes where there's loads of them just doesn't work because Moffat had to violate the key rule of them not seeing each other to get so many to move together in broad daylight.  But Angels Take Manhattan was a very good concept.

I'd actually like to see a few "friendly" ones that try to help out.  The Sontarans were always chaotic neutral for me - could be both good and bad - and I think that's a logical step to explore with the Weeping Angels.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't understand why they don't use the Sea Devils. Of every monster ever in Doctor Who that was the only one that had me hiding behind the sofa.

I was terrified of them. Was never arsed about the Daleks after Bernard Cribbins spun them around and gave them a right kicking

[sideshowme]

a pretty boring episode, that seemed to exist solely as a bit of moffat fan-wank regarding the tedious character of osgood.

the doctor's monologue was really good, as was the sarky american accent, and would have been enough to redeem any episode, apart from an episode cursed with not one but *two* claras, FFS.

I don't. I think it was a mistake bringing them back after Blink.

completely agree.  even in blink they were mildly nonsensical, but as a distraction from the more fun things going on in the episode they worked fine.  every single reappearance has seen diminishing returns, and i really hope they never return.  moffat believing his own hype there, more than anything else.

[Red Beret]

I don't understand why they don't use the Sea Devils. Of every monster ever in Doctor Who that was the only one that had me hiding behind the sofa.

I was terrified of them. Was never arsed about the Daleks after Bernard Cribbins spun them around and gave them a right kicking

The Silurians are a form of Sea Devil.  ie Madame Vastra.

And Bernard Cribbins is a Doctor Who God.



EDIT: trying hard not to spam the thread (when I've had a few cans I tend to go a bit crazy on FB) but I really found this to be awesome (probably because I've had a few cans)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2c6qENWh2jQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2c6qENWh2jQ</a>

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The Silurians are a form of Sea Devil.  ie Madame Vastra.

And Bernard Cribbins is a Doctor Who God.



EDIT: trying hard not to spam the thread (when I've had a few cans I tend to go a bit crazy on FB) but I really found this to be awesome (probably because I've had a few cans)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2c6qENWh2jQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2c6qENWh2jQ</a>

I was thinking more of this film with him and Peter Cushing in mate



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5VniqDkGuM


(01:07 - take that Dalek!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHCwzIgEs8

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Come 'ed then!! We'll have yer!

[JerseyKloppite]

I don't. I think it was a mistake bringing them back after Blink.

Fair enough. Agree with the above though, it's using them in an interesting/creative/thoughtful way that's the issue.

[Red Beret]

I was thinking more of this film with him and Peter Cushing in mate



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5VniqDkGuM


(01:07 - take that Dalek!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHCwzIgEs8

That's the key for me though - it's Bernard in the films AND in the series that makes him so awesome.  Makes him unique as an actor, even if he played different characters.  And who wouldn't want to see Cribbins sassing Capaldi?

(And I still think that Dalek flying saucer is faultless!)

[Les Willis]

That's the key for me though - it's Bernard in the films AND in the series that makes him so awesome.  Makes him unique as an actor, even if he played different characters.  And who wouldn't want to see Cribbins sassing Capaldi?

(And I still think that Dalek flying saucer is faultless!)

But the Cushing films weren't canon... *ducks* 

[sideshowme]

Yes it's a colossal rip off, but a lot of artistic work has gone into it so it's worth sharing imo.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/IpVUCv6q5Lg&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/IpVUCv6q5Lg&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

that is utterly superb.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

But the Cushing films weren't canon... *ducks* 

[SP]

They were balls?

[Ray K]

I don't know what you lot watched, but that was the best episode in years.

Its exactly what Doctor Who can do better than any other sci-fi  - wrap a morality story around a science-fiction skeleton.
It tells us that when it comes down to it, wars can be boiled down to one or two people having a choice to press a button or not; But at the end of the day most wars don't lead to total annihilation of the enemy or total victory, but instead to a place where those participants will have to sit down and talk and agree - except with many, many people dead before they sit down to talk.

And The Doctor isn't make a speech arguing for pacifism - how could he be a pacifist given his history? - but instead using the weight of his own history to plead, cajole, threaten the protagonists here against a pointless war.

Capaldi has never been better in the role - being ferocious, then quiet, intelligent then simplistic, using every part of his personality to manipulate both sides away from war.  It's a masterclass and I don't think any previous Doctor could have pulled it off.

"This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought right there in front of you, because it's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken? How many lives shattered? How much blood will be spilled until everyone does what they're always going to have to do from the beginning and sit down and talk."

All this is done in the guise of a Saturday evening family entertainment.
Frankly, if you didn't like it, then maybe Doctor Who isn't really your thing.

[Nessy76]

snip

All this is done in the guise of a Saturday evening family entertainment.
Frankly, if you didn't like it, then maybe Doctor Who isn't really your thing.

Yep, pretty much everything you said. (Except maybe for it being the best episode in years. Been some crackers this season.)

[MichaelA]

I thought it was much better last week - far better than anything else Capaldi has had to work with so far.

[kidsshow] I feel really sorry for him, he's had some utter toss to deal with, I'm bored to tears with most of the stories, his dialogue has been grim, the sonic specs are a crappy gimmick, and I'm sick of Clara saving the day over and fucking over again. [/kidsshow]

It's gone from *must see* to 'oh, I forgot it was on' in the last couple of series. The rot set in with Matt Smith and has just got worse.

[Ziltoid]

Come 'ed then!! We'll have yer!

You want some!

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You want some!

[Red Beret]

All this is done in the guise of a Saturday evening family entertainment.
Frankly, if you didn't like it, then maybe Doctor Who isn't really your thing.

Whovians on the internet are raving about Capaldi's speech.  Has pretty much defined his tenure as the Doctor and most see it as the moment where he finally came into his own.

[Mouth]

All this is done in the guise of a Saturday evening family entertainment.
Frankly, if you didn't like it, then maybe Doctor Who isn't really your thing.

Yup, don't really know what people want or expect from Doctor Who these days.

[MagicHat]

Yup, don't really know what people want or expect from Doctor Who these days.

Good entertainment more then not (is an erratic show)with a monster of the week or an overused recurring monster, leanings towards pacifism but with Doctor Who having a darker streak, seeing people on this forum blame Clara for everything?

Frankly, if you didn't like it, then maybe Doctor Who isn't really your thing.

So I have enjoyed many episodes of old and new down the years but becuase I didn't think this one episode was good, it must be becuase the entire show isn't my thing? Deary me.

The speech was good. Very well delivered, the kind of message the show has always done (I may not agree with all of it but it was still effective), fitted into the people and scenario, used to good effect. The episode was not anywhere near as good as the speech.  The two-parter was the weakest of the season personally. You disagree and I'm glad you enjoyed it but I think I'll keep watching it even though not liking one episode means "it isn't my thing" if that is alright with you

[Ray K]

Oh, all right I'll give you my permission to watch this week's episode then 

I'm just sick of negativity everywhere. And I mean every-fucking-where on the internet, not just on this particular thread.   
I used to love reading the Guardian blogs. But these past couple of years it's turned into this hideous YouTube comments section  void of vapid bullshit, so I never venture below the line anymore.
I mean, the 2nd or 3rd comment after this episode was 'I like the series, but but would be dramatically improved by the death of Clara'. Someone else called it a big shouty bore fest. 

I just miss the days when people would talk and actually discuss things. That's why its a relief when you're on here, cos you come at this from a fan's perspective and have interesting stuff to say.  But maybe it's just me getting old and yelling at clouds.

[sideshowme]

i like the series, but it would be dramatically improved by the death of clara.

[tubby]

Yup, don't really know what people want or expect from Doctor Who these days.

I expect the Doctor to be the one to solve things or come up with crazy plans.  Stuff like Osgood having to explain to him that Clara was the one who texted, or Clara herself instantly working out where she was and that she could control her doppelganger was a bit much for me.

That kind of thing really bugs me for some reason.  Other than that, I though it was a solid enough story and Capaldi gave a great performance at the end.

[MagicHat]

Oh, all right I'll give you my permission to watch this week's episode then 

Your most kind

I haven't so much noted negativity but this thread has been unusually quiet. Usually after a doctor who episode there would be 2-3 three pages of stuff with liberal use of spoiler tags with someone always taking a contrary view on whether the episode was good or not, not really happened since opening two-parter of this season. I'm part of that not positing as much or as detailed as usual and I'm not sure why. I do miss that.

The one major piece of negativity here has been the issue of Clara. This forum has not been Clara's fan club for some time and that's fine, been some good discussions about that here. The problem is we seem to have got to the situation where the sole line some people post is hating Clara. It is like when fans have turned on a player/manager, you just know in the after-maths of the game that said person is going to get it in the neck whatever happened.

[Nessy76]

I expect the Doctor to be the one to solve things or come up with crazy plans.

It's never really been like that. Obviously there were times when the Doctor did come up with a plan, but it usually goes wrong. And there are lots of stories where his presence doesn't really change the outcome, maybe he just inspires others to sort it out rather than going full on. If you watch the first Christopher Eccleston series, the Doctor hardly solves anything, and when he does it's usually not what he wanted to do. (Obvious exception being The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, but even then, it's down to more luck than design.)