Author Topic: The War In Afghanistan  (Read 89164 times)

Offline jonnypb

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1120 on: August 27, 2021, 12:33:02 pm »
The Republican right, the MAGA mob are desperate to find any grain of sand of a scandal to pin on Biden, whilst they`ve been living on Trump`s beach of corruption and crises for the past 5 years. The laughable suggestions of impeachment just show them for what they are; pathetic game-playing children.

That is true and it’s very hypocritical of them after being part of the corrupt trump government.

BUT you don’t need to be part of the idiotic MAGA mob to see the shit show happening in front of your eyes. I do find it strange that a lot of people are only bothered about who, or what party is in power, rather than what is actually happening in the world. If trump or Boris had been heading up this withdrawal and the exact same things had happened, would everyone in here be ripping them to bits, or would some be backing them like Biden!?

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1121 on: August 27, 2021, 12:45:57 pm »
Interesting that so many seem to miss the fact that the Afghan public wanted the "invading armies" out. The ones that signed up for the army were a useless motley bunch who were just in need of a wage to put food on the table. Poor impoverished nation. So little wonder that no one put up a resistance. The corruption and the looting of the poor nation is exemplified by Afghan Prez Ashraf Ghani and his family who legged it with millions if not billions. Just as Pakistans Nawaz Sharif legged it with millions to the UK and sits untouchable here.
Believe it or not the Afghans wanted the americans out. The "refugees who escaped with their lives" will no surprise tell you and the media what you want to hear.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1122 on: August 27, 2021, 12:51:27 pm »
At least he doesn't seem to be attacked in strength from the left over there, however the left here sees things. It's the Republican right who are attacking him over this. The Democratic left seem to be fairly solidly supporting him. From what I've been told, anyway.
I hope your right but people do judge on face value rather than putting all the facts together then making a considered judgment. there are some legitimate questions that need answering, ive got a few of my own and am sure we will get those answers in time but like 9/11 people will form their opinions now, many of those opinions will be way off the truth.
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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1123 on: August 27, 2021, 12:52:09 pm »
@ Veinticinco de Mayo The way you talk to other users on this forum is something you should be ashamed of as someone who is suppose to be representing the site.
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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1124 on: August 27, 2021, 01:41:28 pm »
So Biden is threatening revenge on suicide bombers ! 🤔

Offline Spezialo

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1125 on: August 27, 2021, 01:44:07 pm »
That is true and it’s very hypocritical of them after being part of the corrupt trump government.

BUT you don’t need to be part of the idiotic MAGA mob to see the shit show happening in front of your eyes. I do find it strange that a lot of people are only bothered about who, or what party is in power, rather than what is actually happening in the world. If trump or Boris had been heading up this withdrawal and the exact same things had happened, would everyone in here be ripping them to bits, or would some be backing them like Biden!?

Probably get overlooked this.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1126 on: August 27, 2021, 01:58:54 pm »
So Biden is threatening revenge on suicide bombers ! 🤔

The groups that organise the suicide bombers. The suicide bombers are obviously dead.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1127 on: August 27, 2021, 02:07:47 pm »
The groups that organise the suicide bombers. The suicide bombers are obviously dead.

I meant future suicide bombers. They won't be quaking in their boots.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1128 on: August 27, 2021, 02:11:08 pm »
The groups that organise the suicide bombers.


He's going to nuke Pakistan, Saudi and the Gulf states, then?

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1129 on: August 27, 2021, 02:30:29 pm »
I meant future suicide bombers. They won't be quaking in their boots.

Is the point not that committing the suicide bombing will guarantee their entry into heaven, amd getting all the virgons or whatever it is, so getting bombed by the US would deny them that so they may indeed be quaking in their boots.

Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1130 on: August 27, 2021, 02:31:28 pm »
It should be noted that the view inside the US is a bit different from the view from the UK. Asking American lefties I know, the general view among the US left is that Biden did the right thing in pulling out, and that there was going to be a mess whoever pulled out, that being the inevitable consequence. The Republicans are blaming Biden, but Democrats think that the bulk of the fault and responsibility lies with previous administrations.

Which is slightly different from the impression one gets on here.





https://today.yougov.com/topics/international/articles-reports/2021/08/26/americans-blame-biden-withdrawal-afghanistan?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=afghanistan_evacuation&utm_content=storie

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Offline cptrios

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1131 on: August 27, 2021, 02:46:12 pm »
That is true and it’s very hypocritical of them after being part of the corrupt trump government.

BUT you don’t need to be part of the idiotic MAGA mob to see the shit show happening in front of your eyes. I do find it strange that a lot of people are only bothered about who, or what party is in power, rather than what is actually happening in the world. If trump or Boris had been heading up this withdrawal and the exact same things had happened, would everyone in here be ripping them to bits, or would some be backing them like Biden!?

Well, I don't speak for everyone, but I'm not backing Biden exactly. I just think he was set up to fail and had no good options. It certainly appears that the withdrawal has been botched, but like I said before, I have no idea how it could have been done better. For the record, I don't care about Joe Biden or his reputation/legacy at all; any defense of him I do is not in the hopes that his personal approval ratings don't drop, but that the Democrats will be able to keep the Republicans out of power. Them taking back congress and the presidency would be a disaster for the entire planet.

But yeah, if Trump were the one handling the withdrawal, I'd be ripping him to bits. He's the one who pulled the pin on the grenade Biden was left holding. If he were in office now, he would have been the one to pull the pin and toss the grenade. I don't see my reaction as hypocritical at all.

Offline GBF

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1132 on: August 27, 2021, 02:50:22 pm »
So Biden is threatening revenge on suicide bombers ! 🤔

Taliban used suicide bombers when they had only poor weapons.  Now they have over $200M worth of American military equipment at their disposal that they either can use or sell to raise money for other weapons.

01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

Offline oldfordie

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1133 on: August 27, 2021, 02:55:07 pm »
That is true and it’s very hypocritical of them after being part of the corrupt trump government.

BUT you don’t need to be part of the idiotic MAGA mob to see the shit show happening in front of your eyes. I do find it strange that a lot of people are only bothered about who, or what party is in power, rather than what is actually happening in the world. If trump or Boris had been heading up this withdrawal and the exact same things had happened, would everyone in here be ripping them to bits, or would some be backing them like Biden!?
You think Trump and Biden should take equal blame for what's happened? Trumps naïve political points scoring deal created the conditions for this whole s,,,show so yes had all this happened while Trump was still president I would be ripping him apart. 20 yrs of patiently supporting and helping Afghanistan get back on it's feet thrown down the swanney because some narcistic psychopath wanted to win a Noble prize to score political points.
There would have been problems am sure but not the total collapse and all the problems this created would have happened if Biden and the Democrats had been in charge of the negotiations.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 02:57:43 pm by oldfordie »
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Online Bobsackamano

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1134 on: August 27, 2021, 03:05:26 pm »

He's going to nuke Pakistan, Saudi and the Gulf states, then?



I presumed he meant ISIS-K who are based in Afganistan, the one's who organised the bombing the other day.

Offline stevensr123

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1135 on: August 27, 2021, 03:08:00 pm »
The Republican right, the MAGA mob are desperate to find any grain of sand of a scandal to pin on Biden, whilst they`ve been living on Trump`s beach of corruption and crises for the past 5 years. The laughable suggestions of impeachment just show them for what they are; pathetic game-playing children.
the more pathetic bunch are the people willing to accept anything but trump, these people are the reason why the democrats are probably are going to lose. The democrats for 4 years have concentrated on one enemy. They have botched borders, over seas stuff, literally what are they about? They aren’t even about free healthcare. They have nothing. 
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Offline stevensr123

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1136 on: August 27, 2021, 03:10:07 pm »
So the Biden administration thought it was cool to give American citizen names to a terrorist organisation called the taliban..cool cool cool.

A pathetic disgrace who should never have been voted in, he is about 100 ffs, everyone can see he is barely competent.it’s handing power to republicans,
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 03:12:29 pm by stevensr123 »
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Online Bobsackamano

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1137 on: August 27, 2021, 03:20:09 pm »
the more pathetic bunch are the people willing to accept anything but trump, these people are the reason why the democrats are probably are going to lose. The democrats for 4 years have concentrated on one enemy. They have botched borders, over seas stuff, literally what are they about? They aren’t even about free healthcare. They have nothing. 

Here's a couple of decent summaries of what Biden has done in the first 100 days, obviously that only takes us to April so is slightly out of date but it's not 'nothing'

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/26/990305593/100-days-how-biden-has-fared-so-far-on-his-promises?t=1630073704725

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2021/politics/biden-executive-orders/

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1138 on: August 27, 2021, 03:46:28 pm »
the more pathetic bunch are the people willing to accept anything but trump, these people are the reason why the democrats are probably are going to lose. The democrats for 4 years have concentrated on one enemy. They have botched borders, over seas stuff, literally what are they about? They aren’t even about free healthcare. They have nothing. 
So you saying it would've been better to keep Trump?

Biden was the only alternative.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1139 on: August 27, 2021, 04:01:04 pm »
the more pathetic bunch are the people willing to accept anything but trump, these people are the reason why the democrats are probably are going to lose. The democrats for 4 years have concentrated on one enemy. They have botched borders, over seas stuff, literally what are they about? They aren’t even about free healthcare. They have nothing.

If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong. etc

I know I`m going to regret this, but if you were a one-person US electorate, what would you have done? As a preface to this: I wouldn`t have wanted to have to vote for Biden, I would have wanted a younger, striving, vivacious, intelligent, popular, articulate, principled candidate. Unfortunately, there was no such candidate and only Biden could put together the voters coalition to get the orange criminal out of office. That was the first target, the next is to pass their agenda, which seems even more difficult given the way American politics seems set up to benefit a determined and noisy minority. As for the situation in Afghanistan, only those short of memory or politically biased can blame Biden for what has happened. This has been decades in the making.
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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1140 on: August 27, 2021, 04:22:37 pm »
the more pathetic bunch are the people willing to accept anything but trump, these people are the reason why the democrats are probably are going to lose. The democrats for 4 years have concentrated on one enemy. They have botched borders, over seas stuff, literally what are they about? They aren’t even about free healthcare. They have nothing.

Do you really believe that,they're worse than all the lying,racist,bible thumping,maga c*nts,really ?


I'm starting to think that you admire Drumpf and his gang.
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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1141 on: August 27, 2021, 04:31:40 pm »
The democrats for 4 years have concentrated on one enemy. They have botched borders, over seas stuff, literally what are they about?

Didn’t realise Democrats have been in charge for 4 years. 

Offline Spezialo

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1142 on: August 27, 2021, 04:35:22 pm »
Can you not say anything on here about Biden/Dems without getting labelled a Trump supporter?

Online Elmo!

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1143 on: August 27, 2021, 04:39:34 pm »
Can you not say anything on here about Biden/Dems without getting labelled a Trump supporter?

Loads have over the last week or 2, including myself,  without being labelled a Trump supporter.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1144 on: August 27, 2021, 04:39:34 pm »
Didn’t realise Democrats have been in charge for 4 years.


His posts are weirdly pro-drmupf,which makes the post that you responded to one of the most blinkered I've ever read on here and that's saying something considering we're a Footy forum.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1145 on: August 27, 2021, 04:41:13 pm »
Can you not say anything on here about Biden/Dems without getting labelled a Trump supporter?

Of course you can but maybe you should read Steves posts in this thread.
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Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1146 on: August 27, 2021, 04:41:36 pm »
Can you not say anything on here about Biden/Dems without getting labelled a Trump supporter?

You can, but it does come with a risk of being labeled/questioned by some.
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Offline jonnypb

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1147 on: August 27, 2021, 04:53:59 pm »
But yeah, if Trump were the one handling the withdrawal, I'd be ripping him to bits. He's the one who pulled the pin on the grenade Biden was left holding. If he were in office now, he would have been the one to pull the pin and toss the grenade. I don't see my reaction as hypocritical at all.

I wasn’t saying you, or anyone else in here was being hypocritical, in the first paragraph I was replying to someone who was talking about American politicians calling for Biden to be impeached, these are the same politicians who backed the corrupt trump leadership, that’s who I meant were hypocrites.

Can you not say anything on here about Biden/Dems without getting labelled a Trump supporter?

Seemingly not by some! This is where it comes back to are people just bothered about who is in power and not what is actually happening in the real world. Trump was the worst, but it doesn’t mean that his opposition can’t be criticised for perceived failures.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 04:57:26 pm by jonnypb »

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1148 on: August 27, 2021, 04:57:19 pm »
Can you not say anything on here about Biden/Dems without getting labelled a Trump supporter?
If you look at what's going on in Kabul right now and look at just the recent history of Afghanistan (say the past year) can you explain what Biden has done wrong?

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1149 on: August 27, 2021, 05:07:07 pm »
That is true and it’s very hypocritical of them after being part of the corrupt trump government.

BUT you don’t need to be part of the idiotic MAGA mob to see the shit show happening in front of your eyes. I do find it strange that a lot of people are only bothered about who, or what party is in power, rather than what is actually happening in the world. If trump or Boris had been heading up this withdrawal and the exact same things had happened, would everyone in here be ripping them to bits, or would some be backing them like Biden!?

I have yet to find one non-MAGA bullshit pundit explain what could have been done better.  20 years of failure and all of a sudden we're going to come up with a foolproof plan to evacuate 100k+ people at a leisurely pace with no bad optics?   If you got one I'd love to see it as otherwise what you're saying its complete garbage.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1150 on: August 27, 2021, 05:09:58 pm »




https://today.yougov.com/topics/international/articles-reports/2021/08/26/americans-blame-biden-withdrawal-afghanistan?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=afghanistan_evacuation&utm_content=storie

What do you know.  Putting every foreign policy expert on TV to explain why Biden fucked up but conveniently forget their part in the carnage might make people think bad things are happening.  News at 11.  Really enjoyed Ambassador Crocker and HR McMaster shooting everyone straight on this yesterday.

You can, but it does come with a risk of being labeled/questioned by some.

If you're going to regurgitate bullshit right wing talking points then you might get tarred with the same brush.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1151 on: August 27, 2021, 05:53:31 pm »
If you look at what's going on in Kabul right now and look at just the recent history of Afghanistan (say the past year) can you explain what Biden has done wrong?

I haven't said anything about Biden with regards to this. Just picking up that fact that you more or less get labelled right wing if you slate Biden or say anything about Trump if its not (he's corrupt, orange c*nt, sexual predator etc).

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1152 on: August 27, 2021, 05:54:00 pm »
Do you really believe that,they're worse than all the lying,racist,bible thumping,maga c*nts,really ?


I'm starting to think that you admire Drumpf and his gang.

His posts on this thread have been nothing short of embarrassing. And that's saying something in a thread like this.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1153 on: August 27, 2021, 05:54:45 pm »
His posts on this thread have been nothing short of embarrassing. And that's saying something in a thread like this.


Pretty sure he has deleted some from yesterday.
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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1154 on: August 27, 2021, 05:56:07 pm »
I haven't said anything about Biden with regards to this. Just picking up that fact that you more or less get labelled right wing if you slate Biden or say anything about Trump if its not (he's corrupt, orange c*nt, sexual predator etc).

One person has. Out of loads who have criticised Biden.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1155 on: August 27, 2021, 06:00:33 pm »
I have yet to find one non-MAGA bullshit pundit explain what could have been done better.  20 years of failure and all of a sudden we're going to come up with a foolproof plan to evacuate 100k+ people at a leisurely pace with no bad optics?   If you got one I'd love to see it as otherwise what you're saying its complete garbage.

This is the nub of the issue with debate in general these days but it applies in particular to someone like Biden whose job it is to make difficult decisions that have sometimes no good options. All the people giving Biden shit without acknowledging the difficulties of the other options are reducing the debate down to booing a president for making a decision that has bad consequences. It's essentially idiotic and childish. We get the right wing nut jobs predictably piling in but we also get left wing morons who wailed to the moon when the US kicked the Taliban out in 2001 but are now decrying a president for leaving Afghanistan and letting the Taliban back in. A mental state of permanent opposition can do this though, they forget that a situation can have no good outcomes because nobody they like has ever been elected to a position of power where they have to make one of these decisions.

Could this operation have been done better? Who the fuck knows, normally when 1 side loses a war that's been going on for 20 years there's a shitstorm afterwards of some kind. As far as I'm concerned Biden is the one president from the past 20 years who has done the right and proper thing regards Afghanistan and acted according to the reality of the situation, effectively admitting the war is lost/not worth it and retreated.

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1156 on: August 27, 2021, 06:01:09 pm »


POLITICS
The GOP’s Phony Complaints About Afghanistan
Nearly everything Republicans are decrying happened under Trump.
BY WILLIAM SALETAN
AUG 26, 20216:02 PM

On Thursday, suicide bombers killed scores of people outside the Kabul airport, including at least 12 American service members. Congressional Republicans snapped into action, demanding that President Joe Biden resign or be impeached. It’s the latest outburst in a string of political opportunism. For weeks, Republicans have been all over cable TV, lambasting Biden for withdrawing troops. They’ve professed dismay that thousands of jailed Taliban fighters were released from prison, that al-Qaida operatives are still in Afghanistan, and that the American president accepted a Taliban deadline to get out. All of these complaints are phony. Nearly everything the Republicans are decrying happened last year. But Republicans defended or ignored it, because the president who engineered those concessions was Donald Trump.

On Feb. 29, 2020, the Trump administration signed a deal with the Taliban to pull all American troops out of Afghanistan by May 1, 2021. The deal also required the Afghan government to release 5,000 imprisoned Taliban fighters. Hawks called the agreement weak and dangerous, but Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader, advised them not to speak out against it. In March 2020, at hearings of the House Armed Services Committee, some lawmakers worried about the deal, but most, including Reps. Jim Banks and Matt Gaetz, said nothing about it. Another Republican member of the committee, Rep. Mo Brooks, expressed his impatience to pull out, noting that American forces had long ago “destroyed al-Qaida’s operational capability” in Afghanistan.

In July 2020, the committee took up the National Defense Authorization Act, which would fund the military for the next year. Democratic Rep. Jason Crow presented an amendment that would make the Afghan pullout contingent on several requirements. These included “consultation and coordination” with allies, protection of “United States personnel in Afghanistan,” severance of the Taliban from al-Qaida, prevention of “terrorist safe havens inside Afghanistan,” and adequate “capacity of the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces” to fight off Taliban attacks. The amendment also required investigation of any prisoners, released as part of the deal, who might be connected to terrorism. In short, the amendment would do what Trump had failed to do: impose real conditions on the withdrawal. Crow told his colleagues that he, too, wanted to get out, but that Afghan security forces weren’t yet “ready to stand on their own.”

Gaetz dismissed these warnings. The Taliban was already taking over the country, he argued, and imposing conditions would just get in the way of the pullout. “I don’t think there’s ever a bad day to end the war in Afghanistan,” he said.

Eleven members of the committee, including Banks, Brooks, and Gaetz, voted against the amendment. It passed, but Trump refused to accept it. In December, he vetoed the whole defense bill, complaining that it would, among other things, “restrict the President’s ability to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.” Steve Scalise, the minority whip, voted to uphold Trump’s veto. McCarthy, who had to miss the vote for medical reasons, said he, too, stood with the president. Congress overrode the veto, but Trump essentially ignored the amendment.

Eight months later, Biden is completing the withdrawal, and Republicans have done a 180. They act as though they had nothing to do with the pullout or its consequences. “It’s humiliating that the Taliban now controls not just Afghanistan’s presidential palace,” but the U.S. embassy, says Banks, “and it’s all happened on Joe Biden’s watch.” Having voted not to hold Trump accountable for the withdrawal’s execution in last year’s defense bill, Banks vows to hold Biden accountable in this year’s bill. Gaetz now says Biden pulled out prematurely.

To cover their hypocrisy, the Republicans are rewriting history. Brooks says the Taliban’s triumph “would never have happened under President Donald J. Trump.” In reality, Trump guaranteed it by removing as many troops as he could. McCarthy says he knows “for a fact” that Trump wouldn’t have let the Taliban advance from “city to city,” though Trump allowed just that. Scalise says Trump “made it very clear with conditions he put in place that he was not going to let the Taliban take control of the country,” but Trump continued to withdraw troops regardless of conditions, making clear that the Taliban would take control.

McCarthy expresses indignation that Biden “allow[ed] the Taliban to dictate to America when we depart.” But Trump’s 2020 agreement, which McCarthy told critics to read carefully, did the same thing. The difference is that Trump agreed to get out by May 1, whereas Biden postponed that date until Aug. 31. “I never thought there would be an American president in my lifetime who would kowtow to a terrorist group,” Banks raged in an interview with Laura Ingraham on Tuesday, but “that’s exactly what this president is doing: accepting the Taliban’s redlines and deadlines.” Ingraham completed the farce by adding: “Imagine what the Democrats would be saying if any of this had ever occurred under Donald Trump.”

When Trump withdrew more than 10,000 troops, Brooks and other Republicans said that was fine, because al-Qaida had been virtually extinguished in Afghanistan. But when Biden began to withdraw the remaining 2,500, the same Republicans freaked out. “Al-Qaida and ISIS-K still exist and are growing in Afghanistan,” says Banks. As a result, he warns, terror attacks are coming to the United States “without a doubt.” Scalise agrees that Biden has put the homeland at risk, now that “the terrorists have a country.”

McCarthy even blames Biden for Trump’s release of jailed Taliban fighters. In at least three TV appearances this week, he implied that the release, which the Trump administration authorized and forced through, actually took place more recently. America is in danger, he says, because “you just had 5,000 prisoners released. They know how to come here. They have a mission on their hands.”

Republicans had a chance last year to prove they were serious about imposing conditions on the Afghan pullout. Everything they’re now complaining about—coordination with allies, severance of the Taliban from al-Qaida, adequate preparation of the Afghan security forces, vetting of prisoners to be released—was in the Crow amendment and the vetoed defense bill. Lawmakers who were serious voted for the amendment and the bill. Those who didn’t, and who are now attacking Biden, are just opportunists.


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/republicans-phony-complaints-afghanistan-exit-trump.html

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1157 on: August 27, 2021, 06:12:29 pm »

POLITICS
The GOP’s Phony Complaints About Afghanistan
Nearly everything Republicans are decrying happened under Trump.
BY WILLIAM SALETAN
AUG 26, 20216:02 PM

On Thursday, suicide bombers killed scores of people outside the Kabul airport, including at least 12 American service members. Congressional Republicans snapped into action, demanding that President Joe Biden resign or be impeached. It’s the latest outburst in a string of political opportunism. For weeks, Republicans have been all over cable TV, lambasting Biden for withdrawing troops. They’ve professed dismay that thousands of jailed Taliban fighters were released from prison, that al-Qaida operatives are still in Afghanistan, and that the American president accepted a Taliban deadline to get out. All of these complaints are phony. Nearly everything the Republicans are decrying happened last year. But Republicans defended or ignored it, because the president who engineered those concessions was Donald Trump.

On Feb. 29, 2020, the Trump administration signed a deal with the Taliban to pull all American troops out of Afghanistan by May 1, 2021. The deal also required the Afghan government to release 5,000 imprisoned Taliban fighters. Hawks called the agreement weak and dangerous, but Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader, advised them not to speak out against it. In March 2020, at hearings of the House Armed Services Committee, some lawmakers worried about the deal, but most, including Reps. Jim Banks and Matt Gaetz, said nothing about it. Another Republican member of the committee, Rep. Mo Brooks, expressed his impatience to pull out, noting that American forces had long ago “destroyed al-Qaida’s operational capability” in Afghanistan.

In July 2020, the committee took up the National Defense Authorization Act, which would fund the military for the next year. Democratic Rep. Jason Crow presented an amendment that would make the Afghan pullout contingent on several requirements. These included “consultation and coordination” with allies, protection of “United States personnel in Afghanistan,” severance of the Taliban from al-Qaida, prevention of “terrorist safe havens inside Afghanistan,” and adequate “capacity of the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces” to fight off Taliban attacks. The amendment also required investigation of any prisoners, released as part of the deal, who might be connected to terrorism. In short, the amendment would do what Trump had failed to do: impose real conditions on the withdrawal. Crow told his colleagues that he, too, wanted to get out, but that Afghan security forces weren’t yet “ready to stand on their own.”

Gaetz dismissed these warnings. The Taliban was already taking over the country, he argued, and imposing conditions would just get in the way of the pullout. “I don’t think there’s ever a bad day to end the war in Afghanistan,” he said.

Eleven members of the committee, including Banks, Brooks, and Gaetz, voted against the amendment. It passed, but Trump refused to accept it. In December, he vetoed the whole defense bill, complaining that it would, among other things, “restrict the President’s ability to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.” Steve Scalise, the minority whip, voted to uphold Trump’s veto. McCarthy, who had to miss the vote for medical reasons, said he, too, stood with the president. Congress overrode the veto, but Trump essentially ignored the amendment.

Eight months later, Biden is completing the withdrawal, and Republicans have done a 180. They act as though they had nothing to do with the pullout or its consequences. “It’s humiliating that the Taliban now controls not just Afghanistan’s presidential palace,” but the U.S. embassy, says Banks, “and it’s all happened on Joe Biden’s watch.” Having voted not to hold Trump accountable for the withdrawal’s execution in last year’s defense bill, Banks vows to hold Biden accountable in this year’s bill. Gaetz now says Biden pulled out prematurely.

To cover their hypocrisy, the Republicans are rewriting history. Brooks says the Taliban’s triumph “would never have happened under President Donald J. Trump.” In reality, Trump guaranteed it by removing as many troops as he could. McCarthy says he knows “for a fact” that Trump wouldn’t have let the Taliban advance from “city to city,” though Trump allowed just that. Scalise says Trump “made it very clear with conditions he put in place that he was not going to let the Taliban take control of the country,” but Trump continued to withdraw troops regardless of conditions, making clear that the Taliban would take control.

McCarthy expresses indignation that Biden “allow[ed] the Taliban to dictate to America when we depart.” But Trump’s 2020 agreement, which McCarthy told critics to read carefully, did the same thing. The difference is that Trump agreed to get out by May 1, whereas Biden postponed that date until Aug. 31. “I never thought there would be an American president in my lifetime who would kowtow to a terrorist group,” Banks raged in an interview with Laura Ingraham on Tuesday, but “that’s exactly what this president is doing: accepting the Taliban’s redlines and deadlines.” Ingraham completed the farce by adding: “Imagine what the Democrats would be saying if any of this had ever occurred under Donald Trump.”

When Trump withdrew more than 10,000 troops, Brooks and other Republicans said that was fine, because al-Qaida had been virtually extinguished in Afghanistan. But when Biden began to withdraw the remaining 2,500, the same Republicans freaked out. “Al-Qaida and ISIS-K still exist and are growing in Afghanistan,” says Banks. As a result, he warns, terror attacks are coming to the United States “without a doubt.” Scalise agrees that Biden has put the homeland at risk, now that “the terrorists have a country.”

McCarthy even blames Biden for Trump’s release of jailed Taliban fighters. In at least three TV appearances this week, he implied that the release, which the Trump administration authorized and forced through, actually took place more recently. America is in danger, he says, because “you just had 5,000 prisoners released. They know how to come here. They have a mission on their hands.”

Republicans had a chance last year to prove they were serious about imposing conditions on the Afghan pullout. Everything they’re now complaining about—coordination with allies, severance of the Taliban from al-Qaida, adequate preparation of the Afghan security forces, vetting of prisoners to be released—was in the Crow amendment and the vetoed defense bill. Lawmakers who were serious voted for the amendment and the bill. Those who didn’t, and who are now attacking Biden, are just opportunists.


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/republicans-phony-complaints-afghanistan-exit-trump.html

I just watched McCarthy's news conference on CSPAN and I'm not even sure what he was saying.  We shouldn't have troops there but we should retake Bagram and hold it indefinitely?  Nobody thinks we should have troops there but we should keep them there as long as it's safe?  I mean it's pretty embarrassing.


This is the nub of the issue with debate in general these days but it applies in particular to someone like Biden whose job it is to make difficult decisions that have sometimes no good options. All the people giving Biden shit without acknowledging the difficulties of the other options are reducing the debate down to booing a president for making a decision that has bad consequences. It's essentially idiotic and childish. We get the right wing nut jobs predictably piling in but we also get left wing morons who wailed to the moon when the US kicked the Taliban out in 2001 but are now decrying a president for leaving Afghanistan and letting the Taliban back in. A mental state of permanent opposition can do this though, they forget that a situation can have no good outcomes because nobody they like has ever been elected to a position of power where they have to make one of these decisions.

Could this operation have been done better? Who the fuck knows, normally when 1 side loses a war that's been going on for 20 years there's a shitstorm afterwards of some kind. As far as I'm concerned Biden is the one president from the past 20 years who has done the right and proper thing regards Afghanistan and acted according to the reality of the situation, effectively admitting the war is lost/not worth it and retreated.

The worst is that CNN, NBC, ABC, etc al are putting on supposed "experts" to explain why this is bad when these "experts" were all part of prior administrations and responsible for why we are here in the first place.  How can you trust the judgment of someone that has so clearly fucked up already?  I guess I don't remember 9/11 as well as I thought I did as I've never seen the Foreign Policy establishment of this country so strident on covering their own asses while the press just laps it up.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 06:15:59 pm by Dave McCoy »

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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1158 on: August 27, 2021, 06:20:23 pm »
No music under the Taliban

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58344197

(No doubt someone will come along soon and explain that "the Afghan public" didn't want music.
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Re: The War In Afghanistan
« Reply #1159 on: August 27, 2021, 06:23:05 pm »
I have yet to find one non-MAGA bullshit pundit explain what could have been done better.  20 years of failure and all of a sudden we're going to come up with a foolproof plan to evacuate 100k+ people at a leisurely pace with no bad optics?   If you got one I'd love to see it as otherwise what you're saying its complete garbage.

There’s plenty non trump supporters who have explained why things have gone wrong, details that Biden ignored, people have said many a thing in this thread, reporters, ex military people, people currently serving in the forces, security agencies, you just don’t want to read it, or believe it as your head is so far up Bidens arse and continue to talk ‘garbage’ to anyone who disagrees with you or Biden.