Author Topic: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow  (Read 70928 times)

Offline kiwiscouser

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #320 on: September 2, 2009, 09:51:34 am »
Liverpool, since the Champions League participation, have always spent at least £20 million of the profits generated in the transfer market to improve or at least maintain the viability of the squad.

This year they didn't.

Arguments about VAT, agents' fees, service fees etc. are immaterial to this discussion as they've always been there and we've always paid them.

Money for actual transfers have always come out of one budget, whilst funding for improved contracts for existing players have come out of another.

This year it didn't, the budgets have been rolled together. And it's plain to me that this has been the case so as our "custodians" could pay off a small proportion of the debt they've laden on the club. Supporters are no fools.

So I don't buy for one nanosecond Purslow's  spin on events and neither do I buy, for that matter, misguided attempts to justify them on these boards.

Its like any other business who have capex and opex.  Transfer fees are capital expenditure and wages over the length of the contract are operating expenditure.

Purslow is putting both into one transfer which is wrong.

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #321 on: September 2, 2009, 12:10:43 pm »
I agree with you WLR. It's designed to stop people asking questions. And it definitely doesn't say Kenny recommended him. I'd be surprised if he did, as that would imply KK is matey with Hicks and Gillett, too.

kk was happy to take a paid role at the club.

Its a tricky one.On the one hand no-one wants to be seen to be propping up a flawed regime. Equally a club of our size needs wise heads (KK0 and smart business brains ( Purslow? The jury is out).
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Offline Kite

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #322 on: September 2, 2009, 12:23:21 pm »
Its like any other business who have capex and opex.  Transfer fees are capital expenditure and wages over the length of the contract are operating expenditure.

Purslow is putting both into one transfer which is wrong.

The only way this argument could have any bearing was if we had significantly increased our wage bill with the new contracts.  So if we gave a pay rise to 5 players of say 20,000 each then we'd have 100,000 extra per week to pay out.

But even at that rate it would work out at 5.2 million. 

But to be honest.  I wouldn't mind going through 2-3 years of less transfer money to spend if the stadium was getting built.  That is my biggest gripe.

Where is our fucking new stadium ?
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Offline rocco

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #323 on: September 2, 2009, 01:52:21 pm »
English Premier League champions Manchester United received a huge windfall from last season's Premier League's broadcast rights, which saw the league pay out more than UK£1 billion for the first time.

United and Liverpool topped the list of earnings, with the Premier League champions collecting £51.5 million. Liverpool also broke the £50 million mark,


How much did we get the previous season ?

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #324 on: September 2, 2009, 02:20:53 pm »
£50m? Where did it go?

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #325 on: September 2, 2009, 02:47:00 pm »
£50m? Where did it go?

Thats not over one season mate, its a multi year deal.
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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #326 on: September 2, 2009, 02:48:42 pm »
Its like any other business who have capex and opex.  Transfer fees are capital expenditure and wages over the length of the contract are operating expenditure.
Purslow is putting both into one transfer which is wrong.

It's a bit of a pointless distinction isnt it? The money has to be paid.

What we do not know is what the siging on fees were. Rafa, Gerrard, Torres and Agger all copped for big contracts If all recieved £5m each by way of siging on fee / loyalty bonus/ Lump sum advance with reduced salary that COULD have taken a big chunk out of a capital budget. If they had moved, Torres and Gerrard in particular could have easily commanded such a fee.
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Offline rocco

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #327 on: September 2, 2009, 02:54:28 pm »
Thats not over one season mate, its a multi year deal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/6101397/Manchester-United-awarded-biggest-slice-of-Premier-League-television-money-in-2008-09.html

United claimed a total of almost £51.5 million in broadcast revenue last season, £1.75 million more than they received for winning the league in 2007-08, and £1.4 million more than was received by last year's runners-up, Liverpool.
« Last Edit: September 2, 2009, 03:08:53 pm by rocco »

Offline west_london_red

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #328 on: September 2, 2009, 03:21:04 pm »
My bad, I was thinking of the foreign TV deal.

The money is part of our annual income, and will have been spent of the usual stuff, wages, fees, transfers (if were lucky) etc. Although higher then previous years because of our league position (you get about £500k per position) and the championship run in meant we were on TV more, we would have got a reasonably simillar firgure the year before.
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Offline rocco

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #329 on: September 2, 2009, 03:43:45 pm »
sorry, I was thinking of the foreign TV deal.

The money is part of our annual income, and will have been spent of the usual stuff, wages, fees, transfers (if were lucky) etc. Although higher then previous years because of our league position (you get about £500k per position) and the championship run in meant we were on TV more, we would have got a reasonably simillar firgure the year before.
Thought the above money was to go up a good bit ? or did that happen 2 years ago. ?

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #330 on: September 2, 2009, 04:27:28 pm »
Thought the above money was to go up a good bit ? or did that happen 2 years ago. ?

Champions league prize money is paid in swiss francs, the foreign tv deals in hedged foreign currency. An uplift of up to 25% is due to currency fluctuations in our favour.
« Last Edit: September 2, 2009, 09:33:06 pm by xerxes1 »
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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #331 on: September 2, 2009, 04:28:11 pm »
sorry, I was thinking of the foreign TV deal.

The money is part of our annual income, and will have been spent of the usual stuff, wages, fees, transfers (if were lucky) etc. Although higher then previous years because of our league position (you get about £500k per position) and the championship run in meant we were on TV more, we would have got a reasonably simillar firgure the year before.

Well,it's obvious that NONE of it was spent on transfers!
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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #332 on: September 2, 2009, 05:06:28 pm »
Chamions league prize money is paid in swiss francs, the foreign tv deals in hedged foreign currency. An uplift of up to 25% is due to currency fluctiuations in our favour.

My question was towards money from the premier league , prize money and TV money ....... not the champions league.


Since we got £50m  .... it must have gone up recently  , thought it was last season ? 2008/2009
« Last Edit: September 3, 2009, 11:48:55 am by rocco »

Offline Curva Nord '77

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #333 on: September 2, 2009, 05:45:14 pm »
Mate told me Purslow now has his own club driver and car. Not a big outlay in the scheme of things but more evidence of various club officials riding on the pig's back.  :no

This guy seems to operate more like an appointed receiver to me.

Says bugger all but clamps down on spending. Except on himself.

For the last few months a fucking cone of silence has descended over the club.

We are supposed to attend games like sheep, support the team, but fucking keep paying out the cash.

It's got to stop.

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #334 on: September 2, 2009, 05:47:51 pm »
Well,it's obvious that NONE of it was spent on transfers!

Pretty obvious yes.

Are we facing Gillette's old financial strategy these days? Make the employees believe we're barely hanging on, which squeezes out the last drop of effort from everyone to survive and make decent results...? If anyone can get results out of limited funds its Rafael Benitez.  He has proven that. So the yanks saw the importance of getting him attached to a new contract. I just wonder how far it will go before Rafa says enough is enough.

By doing this they keep the boat floating, and get well paid personally, can cover all the expenses with the loan that bought the club and do what's in they're only interests...:  Make money of the club, until someone is willing to buy it for a crazy overprice, with the least amount of spending.

An investment in a new stadium is not an option. How could they? That would mean another crazy loan. And the income alone will not cover the expenses. Personal funds must be used.

So when it gets to windy around they're pirate necks, they just cough up some lies to build castles in the air for the fans and to show us "noble" "true" attentions.

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Offline ali

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #335 on: September 3, 2009, 11:41:02 am »

New football stadia key to Liverpool's 2018 World Cup plans

Sep 3 2009 by Marc Waddington, Liverpool Daily Post


..................Anfield managing director Christian Purslow explained that, for Liverpool FC, the “centrepiece is to deliver a world-class football ground that everyone can be proud of, a new home for the club with a stadium of at least 60,000 seats, giving the best possible match experience.”

He added that the project would begin “when contraction in the world banking market ends and recession finds its equilibrium”.

He added: “It’s a central part of the council’s regeneration strategy for Stanley Park around Anfield. Research shows that benefits to the local economy and community will be much greater than if the club was expanded in situ or moved away.”

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/09/03/new-football-stadia-key-to-liverpool-s-2018-world-cup-plans-92534-24595780/

back to 60,000 then
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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #336 on: September 3, 2009, 11:53:55 am »
New football stadia key to Liverpool's 2018 World Cup plans

Sep 3 2009 by Marc Waddington, Liverpool Daily Post


..................Anfield managing director Christian Purslow explained that, for Liverpool FC, the “centrepiece is to deliver a world-class football ground that everyone can be proud of, a new home for the club with a stadium of at least 60,000 seats, giving the best possible match experience.”

He added that the project would begin “when contraction in the world banking market ends and recession finds its equilibrium”.

He added: “It’s a central part of the council’s regeneration strategy for Stanley Park around Anfield. Research shows that benefits to the local economy and community will be much greater than if the club was expanded in situ or moved away.”

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/09/03/new-football-stadia-key-to-liverpool-s-2018-world-cup-plans-92534-24595780/

back to 60,000 then

But is it a "central part" of G+H's plans and where are they going to find the money for it?

More pie in the sky promises!
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Offline HarryLabrador

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #337 on: September 3, 2009, 11:54:18 am »
New football stadia key to Liverpool's 2018 World Cup plans

Sep 3 2009 by Marc Waddington, Liverpool Daily Post


He added that the project would begin “when contraction in the world banking market ends and recession finds its equilibrium”.

He added: “It’s a central part of the council’s regeneration strategy for Stanley Park around Anfield. Research shows that benefits to the local economy and community will be much greater than if the club was expanded in situ or moved away.”

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/09/03/new-football-stadia-key-to-liverpool-s-2018-world-cup-plans-92534-24595780/



blah, blah, blah.......ad infinitum
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Offline wednesday25052005

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #338 on: September 3, 2009, 12:00:43 pm »
New football stadia key to Liverpool's 2018 World Cup plans

Sep 3 2009 by Marc Waddington, Liverpool Daily Post


..................Anfield managing director Christian Purslow explained that, for Liverpool FC, the “centrepiece is to deliver a world-class football ground that everyone can be proud of, a new home for the club with a stadium of at least 60,000 seats, giving the best possible match experience.”

He added that the project would begin “when contraction in the world banking market ends and recession finds its equilibrium”.

He added: “It’s a central part of the council’s regeneration strategy for Stanley Park around Anfield. Research shows that benefits to the local economy and community will be much greater than if the club was expanded in situ or moved away.”

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/09/03/new-football-stadia-key-to-liverpool-s-2018-world-cup-plans-92534-24595780/

back to 60,000 then

On you go Christian, go on kidda, keep spewing the shit - fucking fan - what a load of bollocks

I think it's not a case of the shit has hit the fan but a fucking hurricane instead

Offline ali

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #339 on: September 4, 2009, 01:05:06 am »
Anfield's Christian rule

The appointment of a Liverpool chief executive, on which head hunters Hodgers have been working since May, looks like being kicked into the long grass, at least temporarily.

This follows the arrival as managing director of city heavyweight Christian Purslow, who was not the temporary appointment many believed him to be at the time.

Purslow has the responsibility for defining the chief executive's role and is hardly likely to propose a job specification for any new arrival at Anfield that threatens his position high up in the club's hierarchical structure. Whatever happens, Liverpool will take their time in finding a chief exec.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1211103/Charles-Sale-Six-figure-rush-sign-Richards.html
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Offline mooks

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #340 on: September 4, 2009, 01:09:23 am »
Its like any other business who have capex and opex.  Transfer fees are capital expenditure and wages over the length of the contract are operating expenditure.

Purslow is putting both into one transfer which is wrong.
No, no, no  :butt

We the supporters are paying off the loans the owners took to acquire the club which is wrong

Offline southern scouse

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #341 on: September 4, 2009, 01:13:03 am »
Anfield's Christian rule

The appointment of a Liverpool chief executive, on which head hunters Hodgers have been working since May, looks like being kicked into the long grass, at least temporarily.

This follows the arrival as managing director of city heavyweight Christian Purslow, who was not the temporary appointment many believed him to be at the time.

Purslow has the responsibility for defining the chief executive's role and is hardly likely to propose a job specification for any new arrival at Anfield that threatens his position high up in the club's hierarchical structure. Whatever happens, Liverpool will take their time in finding a chief exec.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1211103/Charles-Sale-Six-figure-rush-sign-Richards.html

Or spin to read that "any possible" talks on any investment in the club has not gone well. Again just thinking we need a full time CEO or CP's 3 day week is quality time.

Or another key issue kicked into the long grass, just dont know what to think and believe anymore

« Last Edit: September 4, 2009, 01:16:42 am by southern scouse »

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #342 on: September 4, 2009, 09:05:30 am »
You have to be really gullible to believe that CP was not effectively taking over back in the summer. If CP is RBS's appointment, then of course there isn't going to be a new CEO.

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #343 on: September 4, 2009, 12:18:39 pm »
CP has tried the we spent 20mil spin and some head in the sand whoppers have agreed , so what next ? The Chelsea situation  is scary imho as i wouldnt be surprised if Hicks and Gillet made sh*t up about us as they can enigineer things i.e The DIC sell on if true , then they would have a real excuse for not spending instead of sending that muppet CP out to chat crap [ true LFC fan my arse ] !  Who will they blow up though is the concern especially as they will dig for dirt on us , utd and arsenal ! dont mind if they find anything on the last 2 but if we got embroiled in this it would be disastrous ! Man City will be next imho or us if the Yanks have their way !
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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #344 on: September 4, 2009, 12:23:54 pm »
LFC is big in revenue terms, but not in payroll numbers.

I was always unclear as to why we needed a CEO and MD,
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Offline redmen77

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #345 on: September 4, 2009, 01:10:21 pm »
LFC is big in revenue terms, but not in payroll numbers.

I was always unclear as to why we needed a CEO and MD,
I must admit that stumped me as well but I suspect its because CP is a temporary appointment and creating separation doesn't highlight that fact.

Offline west_london_red

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #346 on: September 4, 2009, 02:36:07 pm »
CP has tried the we spent 20mil spin and some head in the sand whoppers have agreed , so what next ? The Chelsea situation  is scary imho as i wouldnt be surprised if Hicks and Gillet made sh*t up about us as they can enigineer things i.e The DIC sell on if true , then they would have a real excuse for not spending instead of sending that muppet CP out to chat crap [ true LFC fan my arse ] !  Who will they blow up though is the concern especially as they will dig for dirt on us , utd and arsenal ! dont mind if they find anything on the last 2 but if we got embroiled in this it would be disastrous ! Man City will be next imho or us if the Yanks have their way !

A little far fetched mate
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Offline PJLFC1

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #347 on: September 4, 2009, 02:51:27 pm »
A little far fetched mate

I know WLR but i wouldnt put anything past these 2
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Offline zabadoh

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #348 on: September 7, 2009, 02:29:59 am »
Here's a thought:  Maybe the club is hoarding the alleged "extra" revenue as a deposit for the eventual stadium building loan?  Even more than spending to win the league, funding the new stadium is our greatest priority.
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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #349 on: September 7, 2009, 01:41:32 pm »
Here's a thought:  Maybe the club is hoarding the alleged "extra" revenue as a deposit for the eventual stadium building loan?  Even more than spending to win the league, funding the new stadium is our greatest priority.

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Offline pazcom

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #350 on: September 7, 2009, 01:49:50 pm »
Here's a thought:  Maybe the club is hoarding the alleged "extra" revenue as a deposit for the eventual stadium building loan?  Even more than spending to win the league, funding the new stadium is our greatest priority.

its a nice thought, be amazed if that was the case
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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #351 on: September 7, 2009, 02:32:20 pm »
Here's a thought:  Maybe the club is hoarding the alleged "extra" revenue as a deposit for the eventual stadium building loan?  Even more than spending to win the league, funding the new stadium is our greatest priority.

You could be right there actually- weren't the owners issued with an ultimatum to start the build by RBS or something?

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #352 on: September 7, 2009, 02:57:49 pm »
Here's a thought:  Maybe the club is hoarding the alleged "extra" revenue as a deposit for the eventual stadium building loan?  Even more than spending to win the league, funding the new stadium is our greatest priority.

why the fuck would you not just come out and then say that, as it would be the only decent coherent argument they've had since theyve been here
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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #353 on: September 7, 2009, 03:20:42 pm »
why the fuck would you not just come out and then say that, as it would be the only decent coherent argument they've had since theyve been here

The pricks would never admit they didn't have money on their own to start the stadium.  If they're using club revenue to fund stadium construction then what exactly are they here for?  Being purposely vague about it suits their purposes and lets them manipulate the public record in the future.
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Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline will2003

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #354 on: September 8, 2009, 09:17:51 am »
Purslows appointment to me looks as though he's trying to tidy up the books and make us look good, whether this is for the banks or for buyers who knows, tho its most likely for G+H's bemnefit. It looks as tho finally we are making in roads to increase out commerical revenues, which we have left us well behind some of our rivals.  Perhaps it PR i'm falling for i hope not but it looks like he's been brough in to stream line the club and maximise profit for the Yanks!

Didn't ole THicks say along with the stadium bollox that he was impressed with Purslow and there will be an annoucement of some good figures to come or did i make that up.

If this is the case either we are about to be sold or Dumb and Dumber are here for the long haul.. Hopefully its the former and we can have proper owners!
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Offline WaltonRed

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #355 on: September 8, 2009, 09:37:23 am »
Purslows appointment to me looks as though he's trying to tidy up the books and make us look good, whether this is for the banks or for buyers who knows, tho its most likely for G+H's bemnefit. It looks as tho finally we are making in roads to increase out commerical revenues, which we have left us well behind some of our rivals.  Perhaps it PR i'm falling for i hope not but it looks like he's been brough in to stream line the club and maximise profit for the Yanks!

Didn't ole THicks say along with the stadium bollox that he was impressed with Purslow and there will be an annoucement of some good figures to come or did i make that up.

If this is the case either we are about to be sold or Dumb and Dumber are here for the long haul.. Hopefully its the former and we can have proper owners!

Of course thats why Purslow is here - to help sell teh club.  We have been up for sale for well over a year and have had no interest for months now.

Purslow's brief is purely and simply to make the club more sellable - the way to do that is:

1.  Have plans for a new stadium ready and fully in order
2.  Tie the best players (withe highest resale value) on long term contracts
3.  Radically reduce expenditure
4.  Work with marketing on juicy commercial deals.

Purslow's expertise - such as it is (and he has a very mixed reputation in the City) is in preparing companies for sale in such a way as to maximise the price. 

Everything he has done at Liverpool is with this sole aim in mind.

People need to understand that it is not the case that Liverpool have hundreds of buyers waiting to buy us and we are knocking them back.  Tahts simply not true.  we are desperate for a buyer who will buy us for any sum that makes sense (and that essentially means that a sum that means G&H are relieved of their personal guarantees).  They are NOT looking for a profit any more; they are simply looking to get out without losing money.  But even that is difficult and is what Purslow is trying to achieve.

Oh, and the talk of Dubai offering us £500M a year or so back is utter bollocks as many of us always expected.  I went out for leaving drinks the other night for a mate at Merrills and got chatting again to some interesting people.  They confirmed that Dubai were only willing to buy the club for slightly more than they initially wanted to buy the club for the first time round.  G&H initiated the talks in an attempt to get some investment but Dubai's valuation was so low that they rejected.

So to be fair to Dubai, they have been entirely consistent in their valuation of the club.  They had a price in mind when they first wanted to buy it, and a similar price 6 months later when negotations took place.  Unfortunately that price is now laughably low as due to our debt it makes no sense at all for G&H to sell it at that price.

Purslow's appointment is designed purely and simply to position the club so that a future buyer will think it worth paying the price needed for a sale to become realistic and sensible - roughly £300M.

Offline No666

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #356 on: September 8, 2009, 10:10:17 am »
Quote
They are NOT looking for a profit any more; they are simply looking to get out without losing money.  But even that is difficult and is what Purslow is trying to achieve

Highly interesting. WR, how much of that is your extrapolation on what you've been told and how confident are you of that assertion? Also, the 300m bottom line?

Offline WaltonRed

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #357 on: September 8, 2009, 11:08:52 am »
Highly interesting. WR, how much of that is your extrapolation on what you've been told and how confident are you of that assertion? Also, the 300m bottom line?


They were fairly adamant that a sale at a price which allowed G&H to get out of the club without having any further personal liabilities outstanding, and which allowed them to get all their money back (they have put in some, not much, of their own money) would be welcomed. 

The 300M price is my guess based on the loans, debt.  Its way in excess of anything Dubai has ever valued the club at.

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #358 on: September 8, 2009, 11:59:35 am »
Thanks, WR.  Manchester City cost what? - somewhere over £200m and have so far gobbled up almost £200m (?) in transfer fees? Surely we have far more potential to increase revenue in the Far East, plus the spine of the team is in place, and we enjoy a proven record/history; okay there is a stadium to build (which with a less high-falutin design could come in at circa £290, with naming rights and increased capacity/corporates to help pay for that). At £300m, don't the sums begin to look viable? (Or is Sheikh Mansour simply an egotistical idiot?)

Offline WaltonRed

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Re: New Managing Director Appointed - Christian Purslow
« Reply #359 on: September 8, 2009, 12:08:27 pm »
Thanks, WR.  Manchester City cost what? - somewhere over £200m and have so far gobbled up almost £200m (?) in transfer fees? Surely we have far more potential to increase revenue in the Far East, plus the spine of the team is in place, and we enjoy a proven record/history; okay there is a stadium to build (which with a less high-falutin design could come in at circa £290, with naming rights and increased capacity/corporates to help pay for that). At £300m, don't the sums begin to look viable? (Or is Sheikh Mansour simply an egotistical idiot?)

I'm not sure what the validity of comparing us to Manchester City is.

They were bought by Abu Dhabi not Dubai.

Abu Dhabi are massively, massivley wealthier than Dubai.  You cannot even begin to compare them.

Plus there is no suggestion Manchester city were ever bought as an investment.  It was purely a vanity purchase.  Even if they win the European Cup every year they will not recoup the money they are spending.