Topic: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares

[redmen77]

  Sounds too good to be true. 

I think that guy works for transferrumours!

[will2003]

There are way too many if, buts and maybe's and too many variables to say whats going on. every week there seem to be conflicting reports surrounding our future and the owners. I suspect somethings happening behind the scenes either refinancing with huge guarantees or a sale. I'm also one of those that believe rafa wouldn't have signed a new contract if there wasn't going to be any transfer budget as he constantly bemoans how far behind the mancs we are in terms of cash and that we need to spend to compete.

[will2003]

Silva would choose Liverpool over Juventus

We are still getting quite a few emails and comments from Liverpool fans asking if David Silva is on his way to Anfield….
Win a Signed Torres Home Shirt 2008/10!I have to say that very little has changed since we last dealt with it here. Since then, the market has been moving very slowly in terms of actual offers being made for the player. However, Silva`s representatives are expecting any interested clubs to make their move at the end of the summer.

Valencia are willing – they have to – sell the player and will want things sorted quickly, so they will probably be happy to do business with the first club to put an acceptable offer on the table. At this moment in time, neither Barcelona nor Real Madrid have made a move for Silva – and if it ends up as a straight fight between Juventus or Liverpool, the player would prefer a move to Anfield.

That does not mean David Silva is definitely on his way to Liverpool, but it does mean that there has perhaps never been a better time to try and secure the services of one of the most talented attacking midfielders in Europe. However, Rafa Benitez is going to have to play his cards cleverly as, following the initial contact, Valencia have been told that before Liverpool make a second approach, Benitez will have to offload a couple of players first.

He's already signed to my fifa 09 lfc team and that was chosen by the computer!!

[Something Else]

According to Guillem Balague, Rafa has told Valencia he has to off-load a couple of players before he can make a firm bid for David Silva. Which, if true, would seem to indicate that the stories of £20m + transfer budgets were a load of cr*p, and also the general RAWK optimism about this - 'Rafa would not have signed a new deal if he hadn't been promised a decent transfer budget' type posts. Anyway, what has happened to the CL money/PL 2nd/3rd place money if it ain't going to Rafa?

or it could just be Ballbag talking more shite and making more shite up as usual.....

the lad talks more shite than our owners

[HarryLabrador]

A very loose translation on the current state of affairs of one of our two dreamers.
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Serge Savard given access to Canadiens books on Monday (today?)

MONTREAL-The businessman Serge Savard will on Monday have access to the books of the Montreal Canadiens, as reported in the Journal de Montreal.
The former star player and general manager of the team would also have access to financial data of the Bell Center and the Gillett Entertainment Group.

Serge Savard and his associates will be able to meet with Canadien leaders, including the president, Pierre Boivin, and current Executive Director, Bob Gainey.

The newspaper also reported the possible alliance of the group of Serge Savard with the Canadian telecommunications giant BCE, to present a stronger front against a possible counter higher bid.

So far, Serge Savard had negotiated directly with the current owner, George Gillett. He would have put together a financing of $ 250 million and would then expect to get a controlling position in the activities of the Canadiens.

The other group Quebecois, led by Quebecor would have consulted the documents of the Gillett Entertainment Group last Friday. Later in the week, it would be the turn of two other groups: one led by the Ontario Graeme Roustan, owner of Nike Bauer, and the other by U.S. financial interests.

Last month, buyers had obtained financial reports that they have learned that the Canadian has generated revenues of $ 288 million during the 2007-2008 season and that the profit was $45 million.

As for the entertainment division of the Group Gillett, it generated revenues of $ 100 million and profits of $ 10 million.

George Gillett has requested BMO Financial Group to evaluate all options on its business in Quebec, including the sale of Canadian. Mr. Gillett must refinance large loans in July.

http://www.corussports.com/canadiens/serge_savard_fouillera_livres-20090518-1565341.html

The difficulties of Gillett

In serious financial difficulties, the millionaire George Gillett has mandated BMO Financial Group to evaluate all options regarding its business in Quebec, including the sale of Canadien. Mr. Gillett must refinance large loans in July.

Two other firms are responsible for carrying the same excercise in the United States and in England. In other words, they must consider the possible sale of U.S. assets and British sports empires of  Mr. Gillett in order to help him out of the quagmire.

On the Canadian side, the banker Jacques Ménard and BMO Financial Group must examine the final offers that potential buyers deposit for the Habs in the coming days.

George Gillett has said he wanted to first find an investor who would inject up to $350 million in his sports empire in exchange for a stake of 30%.

If this solution is rejected, he will sell one of his two jewels sports: Canadian or Liverpool FC.

Obviously the sale of the Habs favoured above all the potential buyers approached by the firm BMO. Whatever the final outcome of this process should be completed by the end of June.

If the Canadien is sold, the new owner must submit a final step, the other owners of the NHL will have to accept the transaction.

http://www2.canoe.com/sports/nouvelles/archives/2009/05/20090518-075400.html

[shelovesyou]

The most annoying thing about all of this is you just know that Hicks and Gillett are out there somewhere
without a worry in the world , no problem for them to get refinance , not a big deal , and thinking " hopefully " they can get the stadium started soon . . while we are all here frantically searching for any glimor of hope that they will fuck off ,
I bet its the last thing on their minds . . no panic , no rush they will be thinking . . .

[fry]

The most annoying thing about all of this is you just know that Hicks and Gillett are out there somewhere
without a worry in the world , no problem for them to get refinance , not a big deal , and thinking " hopefully " they can get the stadium started soon . . while we are all here frantically searching for any glimor of hope that they will fuck off ,
I bet its the last thing on their minds . . no panic , no rush they will be thinking . . .

I would go as far to say that building a stadium never crossed their minds, perhaps how much more money the club would be worth if they said they were building a stadium crossed their little rat brains.

[reddwarf12003]

hopefully it will come 2 a head when the seasons finished, so rafa can get on with building his squad for next season.......

[shelovesyou]

I would go as far to say that building a stadium never crossed their minds, perhaps how much more money the club would be worth if they said they were building a stadium crossed their little rat brains.

The clubs value wouldnt raise just because they say we are going to build a new stadium tho, Its like me saying my house is worth 20,000 more because at some point I will build an extension onto it . . . 
I think they have evrey intention of building it , the club just isnt viable without it . . .
hence the plans that have been drawn up , that costs alot of money on its own, and the decision to halt the build last time round , IMO , was the right decision . . . .

[reddwarf12003]

The tumors haven't said a lot for a while.

May have been told by the new owner to keep quite, till Rafas made the signings he wants, hence not to push price up. May not find out till all Rafa's signings in the bag.

On the stadium Think Anfield is included in the grounds for the world cup bid as well as the rugby. If successful they'll get grants to up grade it won't they

[fry]

The clubs value wouldn't raise just because they say we are going to build a new stadium tho, Its like me saying my house is worth 20,000 more because at some point I will build an extension onto it . . . 
I think they have evrey intention of building it , the club just isnt viable without it . . .
hence the plans that have been drawn up , that costs alot of money on its own, and the decision to halt the build last time round , IMO , was the right decision . . . .

If you sold your house with planning permisson for an extension it would be worth more.  The Americans are greedy, they have placed a higher price on the club as they know there is even more money to be made with a bigger stadium.  The Americans cannot build a stadium, nor had they planned to.  Even before the credit crunch they would have not been allowed another loan of 300 mill so tell me how they intended to build the stadium?  Perhaps they were going to swap some of our transfer money for some magic beans and grow a stadium

They bought the club to Milk then sell for more than they paid while the buyer picks up the tab on the loan.

[shelovesyou]

If you sold your house with planning permisson for an extension it would be worth more.  The Americans are greedy, they have placed a higher price on the club as they know there is even more money to be made with a bigger stadium.  The Americans cannot build a stadium, nor had they planned to.  Even before the credit crunch they would have not been allowed another loan of 300 mill so tell me how they intended to build the stadium?  Perhaps they were going to swap some of our transfer money for some magic beans and grow a stadium

They bought the club to Milk then sell for more than they paid while the buyer picks up the tab on the loan.

I dont disagree with that at all mate . . . .

[Billy1561]

The tumors haven't said a lot for a while.

May have been told by the new owner to keep quite, till Rafas made the signings he wants, hence not to push price up. May not find out till all Rafa's signings in the bag.

On the stadium Think Anfield is included in the grounds for the world cup bid as well as the rugby. If successful they'll get grants to up grade it won't they

What new owner?

[ttnbd]

To be fair mate you do nothing but glorify the owners at any given opportunity with your financial hocus pocus.  If the owners posted a ten billion profit id still want them hanged. 

Here's a challenge for you.  Find all instances of me "gloryfying" the owners.  I bet you won't find anything as all I do is correct people on areas of the finances that they have got wrong.

[Dave_the_Red]

This is my last week as a season ticket holder, 1983 i got it. I've had all the highs and lows.  But unless this pair of cancerous, fucking scum go, sell - up, pissoff.  WHATEVER are  your chosen words, I'll walk out of my church, temple for the last time on Sunday. The count down has started.

[zimmy]

or it could just be Ballbag talking more shite and making more shite up as usual.....

the lad talks more shite than our owners

or you?

[xerxes1]

I'm also one of those that believe rafa wouldn't have signed a new contract if there wasn't going to be any transfer budget as he constantly bemoans how far behind the mancs we are in terms of cash and that we need to spend to compete.

Let's not be too misty eyed about this. Rafa signed because he was offered a fabulous long term contract. And let us also remember that of last summers £45m odd spend, only Reira survives as half decent.

At first glance the "sell to buy" headlines prompt outrage. Then when you look you think about the players that we COULD quite happily offload.

In all probability G&H will be here next season and Rafa will have spent a bit of money in the close season part financed by some deserved exits.

[Something Else]

At first glance the "sell to buy" headlines prompt outrage. Then when you look you think about the players that we COULD quite happily offload.

I mentioned a while back that those leaving may not be primarily due to money concerns but due to not being good enough and decreasing our squad size which is rather big. Obviously any income from sales will be useful when trying tp bulk up any transfer funds.

[Dave_the_Red]

Let's not be too misty eyed about this. Rafa signed because he was offered a fabulous long term contract. And let us also remember that of last summers £45m odd spend, only Riera survives as half decent.

At first glance the "sell to buy" headlines prompt outrage. Then when you look you think about the players that we COULD quite happily offload.

In all probability G&H will be here next season and Rafa will have spent a bit of money in the close season part financed by some deserved exits.

And 20 million would be on a player that he never wanted. seems the cancers can veto who Rafa buys Barry being the case.

[west_london_red]

Let's not be too misty eyed about this. Rafa signed because he was offered a fabulous long term contract. And let us also remember that of last summers £45m odd spend, only Riera survives as half decent.

At first glance the "sell to buy" headlines prompt outrage. Then when you look you think about the players that we COULD quite happily offload.

In all probability G&H will be here next season and Rafa will have spent a bit of money in the close season part financed by some deserved exits.

Yes, and a fair chunk of that £45 million also was funded by sales. We're getting closer and closer to the Mancs, surely the custodians could put their hands in their pockets.

[ali]

At first glance the "sell to buy" headlines prompt outrage. Then when you look you think about the players that we COULD quite happily offload.

Rafa made it quite clear in his post match pc yesterday when he said we do not want to sell any of our players. Of course, he knows he will have to, second shot of the weekend over the bows following the stadium piece. It's warming up quite nicely 

[xerxes1]

Rafa made it quite clear in his post match pc yesterday when he said we do not want to sell any of our players.

And in that I think he is quite wrong.I believe that there would be a broad consensus amongst fans on a number of players leaving, thereby generating cash.

[fry]

Here's a challenge for you.  Find all instances of me "gloryfying" the owners.  I bet you won't find anything as all I do is correct people on areas of the finances that they have got wrong.

ok, Glorifiying was a strong word and apologies for the implication.  I just get the feeling that allot of your corrections make out that the owners could keep hold of the club and that the little things i hang onto such as when you suggested their guarantees may not have fallen in price which if they have creates a problem for them and a step closer to selling, which you then dash by your financial stuff.     

[dnkw]

And in that I think he is quite wrong.I believe that there would be a broad consensus amongst fans on a number of players leaving, thereby generating cash.

Well, yes, if you take him on face value.

[fry]

And in that I think he is quite wrong.I believe that there would be a broad consensus amongst fans on a number of players leaving, thereby generating cash.

That may be, if i was planning on selling players i would not announce it to the public and wait for offers.  An offer for someone you have not put up for sale yet could be more than an offer for someone that is up for sale. 

[LukeD]

Just playing devil's advocate here (or even devil's advocat which would be an interesting drink no doubt), could it possibly be that Rafa may be using the fact that the owners are struggling financially as it's actually playing into his hands?  Look at the prices City and Chelsea will get quoted?  Maybe this'll work for Rafa this summer?  We all know he is very clever.

I'm just trying to look at this from all directions and, whilst I don't really buy into the whole "there are new owners but they don't want to say anything just yet so Rafa doesn't get ripped off" (there is no way Hicks would have kept quiet - never in a million years I'm afraid), there may be some legs in the fact that Rafa prefers the talk of his budget being very low and him needing to sell to buy as it can help his bargaining?  Yes, that's very unlikely and probably me looking at it and trying to find some good but I guess it is one of many possibilities however unlikely. 

My big question, if this is the case, would be where the hell is the money coming from this summer?  Second place?  The Champions League runs for the last three seasons? More borrowing?

[LFCLife4Life]

i could tell you where its not coming from if that helps

[paul j]

Mr A brazil on talkshite has said he's heard the refianance has gone through but they've had to stump up more of they're own money, and the stadium may now get started. 

is this the same a.brazil who last year said we had been bought buy the arabs.sadly i believe him this time over the refinance.

[LukeD]

i could tell you where its not coming from if that helps

Sure, lets work out all of the "nots" and single out the "not nots" so we can work out where it is coming from.  If that makes sense?!

[ttnbd]

ok, Glorifiying was a strong word and apologies for the implication.  I just get the feeling that allot of your corrections make out that the owners could keep hold of the club and that the little things i hang onto such as when you suggested their guarantees may not have fallen in price which if they have creates a problem for them and a step closer to selling, which you then dash by your financial stuff.     

Unfortunately sometimes that the way it pans out.  With regards to their guarantees, unfortunately due to the way the british economy has been handled sterling became a bit of a basket case in the last 12 months which will have potentially strengthened their arms.  However it does depend on their general financial health.  That is one thing that not one single person on this, or any other, forum can claim to know about.  There may be the odd snippet in the press but the only people who'll know about their financial situations are themselves, their families and their accountants.

I've always felt they'd get an extension/refinancing, because of the way the deal appeared to be structured at the first refinancing.  It may not pan out that way, but, from the banks point of view, why not extend when the club is still generating sizeable operating cashflows and appearing to improve year on year?

Personally I'd ignore 99% of the stuff that gets posted/printed.  It's more than likely hyperbole.

Take Ballague, he's said in a recent article that Rafa had only spent, on average £16m net per season.  That's just incorrect.  With the figures that are known (seasons ending 05, 06 & 07) he spent on average £34m net (£52.6m gross).  Even if the season ending 08 was flat (ie zero net spend) it'd work out to £25m net.  And even if, in that first season (ending 05) included the Cisse transfer it'd still be above £20m if last season was flat.  Not saying it's high enough if it is that low, but it shows how wide of the mark certain figures bandied around are and how ballague maybe being used to portray a different picture for reasons unbeknown to ourselves.

[maj]

For them to get refinance they would have to stump up huge amount of cash. Not loans or letters of credit but hard wods of cash. Hicks has none and their partnership is that if one doesnt pay up the other one covers it. Would gillett pay up Hicksy boys half??? I would never trust Hicks.

There is no money to build a stadium. The promise of a stadium was all bullshit to get liverpool Council give them planning permission. Thats were the value of a resale was. Thats how Hicks valued the club at 1 billion

[Mackeroo]

There is no money to build a stadium. The promise of a stadium was all bullshit to get liverpool Council give them planning permission. Thats were the value of a resale was. Thats how Hicks valued the club at 1 billion

I guess we'll never know for sure but I've suspected that for a long time.

A sure fire way of adding value to an asset eg: a house, is to have planning permission to expand.

There was never going to be a stadium and there never will be a stadium while fuckface & knobrot are still in charge.

[shelovesyou]

UEM on TLW :

Ready for this ? ?

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Been reading over the past couple of days about the apparent agreement on an extension of the loan provided by RBS to Liverpool Football Club in a few of the Sunday Papers.

From what I understand, the stories are more or less correct in regards to structure, and I'm not in any way implying that I know more than Chris Bascombe or am in any way correcting him, as he was spot on.

But there is a side issue which hasn't been reported and the person who told me this has given me the nod to get it out, so I'm not in anyway screwing anyone, and I think it's important that we all know.

In the last week or so, one of the senior staff from The Times business section was at dinner with a friend who is one of the higher upper's from RBS.

It wasn't a press briefing, just a meal between friends and the subject of LFC came up.

When asked what the situation was in regards to the renewal, the following reply was offered, obviously I wasn't there so this isn't verbatim.

The gyst of the reply was that RBS are inclined to offer the current owners of the club an extension, principally because they don't want to be the bank who might have to put LFC into administration, and just as important, they had 25-26 branches in Liverpool and didn't want any action taken against their property or employees.

So this bank actually think that they would be avoiding trouble by granting an extension to the loan? This was a major factor in the decision making process?

They think that not granting the extension would bring direct action from Liverpool supporters? Isn't that the wrong way round?

Someone I know well has been trying to get in touch with RBS to tell them how wrong they are, trying to find out how could they possibly get the wrong end of the stick on such a grand scale, but unfortunately hasn't been able to make a difference on his own. Hence the reason why I've been told to get this out.

The account above is absolutely true. Want to make a difference? Then this may be your chance.

I can't name the people concerned for obvious reasons, but for the bank to use this reason, above business justification, says to me that with the right pressure, expressed in the right way, a change of thinking may be possible.

They are obviously very worried about the reaction of the city of Liverpool.

I honestly believe a nationwide campaign of opposition towards the extension may bear fruit - especially considering that the bank is now owned by the taxpayer, and our policitians are very, very twitchy at the moment.

You have to believe that you can make a change. Help bring a close to this whole sorry episode, whether it's a phone call, a letter, a withdrawal of your business.

We know now that they are worried - misguided - but worried and sensitive to what we feel about the club we all love.

Don't let this chance to make a difference pass you by

[west_london_red]

Which now brings me back to a question that has been festering in my mind for some time...... where are SOS now?

I know Rafa apparently asked them to cool it, but our last home game is coming up, we've  lost the league and are plenty of goals ahead of Chelsea. Surely now is the time to act?

[Oingy Boingy]

Which now brings me back to a question that has been festering in my mind for some time...... where are SOS now?

I know Rafa apparently asked them to cool it, but our last home game is coming up, we've  lost the league and are plenty of goals ahead of Chelsea. Surely now is the time to act?

Would probably get bogged down with all the farewells/well done's to players, not appropriate for Sami etc etc , i do agree though the Yanks are due another bout of fan unrest over how they will never be accepted , if only just to remind the banks media and general public that the vast majority of us are not happy with their ownership of the club...

The public cosying up of Hicks and Gillette has to be exposed for the smoke and mirrors act it is, lets give the cage a little rattle and see if we can ruffle a few feathers and knock the pair of lovebirds of their fucking perch...

[Dr. Beaker]

UEM on TLW :

Ready for this ? ?

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Been reading over the past couple of days about the apparent.................................. Don't let this chance to make a difference pass you by

I think you'll struggle to find thousands of LFC fans who want the club to go into administration.

[fudge]

Yes, and a fair chunk of that £45 million also was funded by sales. We're getting closer and closer to the Mancs, surely the custodians could put their hands in their pockets.

Any half decent custodians would do yes, so we fucked there, oh and don't call me Shirley

[Alan_X]

For them to get refinance they would have to stump up huge amount of cash. Not loans or letters of credit but hard wods of cash. Hicks has none and their partnership is that if one doesnt pay up the other one covers it. Would gillett pay up Hicksy boys half??? I would never trust Hicks.

There is no money to build a stadium. The promise of a stadium was all bullshit to get liverpool Council give them planning permission. Thats were the value of a resale was. Thats how Hicks valued the club at 1 billion

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. The club had planning permission for a new stadium - you don't spend millions on getting permission for something so idiosyncratic and expensive to build (the latest stadium design) if you just want to sell on at a profit.

[Alan_X]

or you?

not necessary

[Jack Slater]

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. The club had planning permission for a new stadium - you don't spend millions on getting permission for something so idiosyncratic and expensive to build (the latest stadium design) if you just want to sell on at a profit.

Those millions of pounds were spent in Texas.  I'd love to know what connections (if any) Hicks has to the firm to which those millions of pounds of club money were given.

Also, the new stadium was delayed straight away after G&H's purchase.  Their excuse/reason was the need for a re-design.  A cynic might say that they couldnt simply say they were cancelling the project completely (a week or two after promising publically to start work immediately), but that a "re-design" enabled them to let the scheme die slowly.


I dont think planning permission played any part in their manoeuvring.  But they needed to promise Moores that they'd build the stadium to convince him to sell (or, if one is mega-cynical, they needed to make a public promise to build the stadium to give Moores an excuse for selling to them).  I dont think they've ever planned to invest (even through borrowing) the amount of money that a new stadium requires.  Their plan is to milk us for a few years, and if the value of the club increases, sell us on.

The claims that they have already been offered a chance to sell at a large profit should be treated with scepticism.