Author Topic: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares  (Read 221754 times)

Offline Kerant

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Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« on: March 26, 2009, 02:04:15 PM »
Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks is looking to sell part of his share in Major League Baseball team Texas Rangers.

Hicks, who co-owns Liverpool with George Gillett and also owns NHL side Dallas Stars, currently has a 95% stake in the Rangers.

Hicks, who is trying to sell minority shares in the Stars as well, revealed his intentions at Rangers' spring training complex.

"I've been quietly looking for minority investors to come back into the ownership of the Rangers as a way to be prudent in a bad economy," Hicks said on mlb.com.

"I'm doing the same thing with the Stars. At the end of the day, I'll still have 51-to-60% of the ballclub and have new partners. That doesn't change anything.

"I own 95% of the Rangers. I started out owning 55% and over the past 10 years I've been slowly buying out partners that wanted to sell. There's no reason to own 95%. There aren't many owners who own 95%."

Earlier this week it was reported Gillett was considering selling some of his sporting assets, which also include the Montreal Canadiens NHL franchise.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=631447&&&cc=5739

Offline MLR

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2009, 02:29:58 PM »
let's face up to the facts that they are both here to stay

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009, 02:53:50 PM »
let's face up to the facts that they are both here to stay

This appears to be the horrible truth, at least for this fat bastard anyway
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Offline red_til_i_die

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 03:04:51 PM »
Looks like both of the cancers are trying to free some cash up so they can pay this loan off :o(
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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 03:08:11 PM »
The sale of other assets is indeed connected to the loan to buy LFC, which is why this is all being discussed in considerable, anal and sometimes very informed detail in the other thread...

Offline paisley1977

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 04:10:34 PM »
I've a better idea Tom sell us and keep your ballclub and George you know what you can do with your hockey stick.
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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009, 04:27:34 PM »
Hicks is trying to sell.
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Offline Bogman

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 04:59:38 PM »
Hicks is trying to sell.

Yeah, with "trying" being the operative word, here.

Anyone else here hearing a couple of old people starting to get slightly panicky?
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Offline Dave_the_Red

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 05:04:11 PM »
What we know.

Can't sell Liverpool

See if we can sell something else, unfortunately that's probally in debt too?

Offline Bogman

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2009, 05:06:22 PM »
What we know.

Can't sell Liverpool

See if we can sell something else, unfortunately that's probally in debt too?


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Offline i_love_lager

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2009, 05:12:04 PM »
tick...follows...tock....follows ha ha ha... when those two slimy bastards go to the wall and we get a decent "custodian"
......well I can dream anyway
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Offline Liver Bird

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 05:14:57 PM »
What we know.

Can't sell Liverpool

See if we can sell something else, unfortunately that's probally in debt too?


I think its looking obvious that if these 2 could sell Liverpool at a decent price then they would, but theres no buyers out there and any that were once there have all gone into hiding, now we hear as deadlines loom that both the owners are publicly looking to sell stakes in their other 'franchises' its all got to be linked, I don't take the view that they are desperate to keep hold of Liverpool specifically I think its becos at the moment they have no choice .....old george is a bit tetchy at the moment crying becos of people prying into his personal business!

Selling a stake in Liverpool would generate them more money one would think  and could sure up their other investments but they haven't been able to do that upto now so it looks like everything else in their portfolios is up for offers instead.

These two don't seem desperate to hang onto Liverpool regardless of the shit that comes out from them, they just seem plain desperate.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 07:37:56 PM by Liver Bird »
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Offline WaltonRed

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 06:07:45 PM »

I think its looking obvious that if these 2 could sell Liverpool at a decent price then they would, but theres no buyers out there and any that were once there have all gone into hiding, now we hear as deadlines loom that both the owners are publicly looking to sell stakes in their other 'franchises' its all got to be linked, I don't take the view that they are desperate to keep hold of Liverpool specifically I think its becos at the moment they have no choice .....old george is a bit tetchy at the moment crying becos of people prying into his personal business!

Selling a stake in Liverpool would generate them more money one would think  and could sure up there other investments but they haven't been able to do that upto now so it looks like everything else in their portfolios is up for offers.

These two don't seem desperate to hang onto Liverpool regardless of the shit that comes out from them, they just seem plain desperate.


I would assume that RBS have informed them that they are happy to refinance the loan but want certain guarantees in place and possibly an injection of equity.

Gillet and Hicks can only do this if the raise money elsewhere and the most obvious way to do this is to sell stakes in their other sports franchises.

Offline nsrederic

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 07:34:34 PM »
I would assume that RBS have informed them that they are happy to refinance the loan but want certain guarantees in place and possibly an injection of equity.

Gillet and Hicks can only do this if the raise money elsewhere and the most obvious way to do this is to sell stakes in their other sports franchises.
I agree with you Walton - G&H must have been advised that RBS are prepared to refinance their loan, but with stricter terms and conditions. Namely - substantially increased personal guarantees and an injection of cash, with stricter conditions and a higher rate of interest.
It will be interesting to see if they are able to sell any part of their stake in their American franchises, with just about 4 months before the RBS loan is due for renewal. Money seems to be tight everywhere and investors seem reluctant to part with funds at the present time.

Offline Liver Bird

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2009, 07:36:19 PM »
I would assume that RBS have informed them that they are happy to refinance the loan but want certain guarantees in place and possibly an injection of equity.

Gillet and Hicks can only do this if the raise money elsewhere and the most obvious way to do this is to sell stakes in their other sports franchises.

And if they can't raise money from their other franchises, what then?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 07:38:13 PM by Liver Bird »
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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2009, 07:42:15 PM »
And if they can't raise money from their other franchises, what then?

Who knows ?

No one on here seems to know from what I can gather , I certainly dont ,
but one thing is for sure If they cant get the cash Injection they so obviously crave and need
then they will have to sell at a lower price and that is when the big boys will rear their heads
and show renewed interest in LFC . Its a waiting game .
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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2009, 08:07:51 PM »
Hicks is trying to sell.

Exactly. Hes been looking for partners for us and got no where. Plus if he places silly values on his US clubs like he does with us, no one will be interested.

Offline lfc_bhoy

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 08:47:14 PM »
This is all in a effort to be in a better position to refinance.  While the Dallas Stars and the Montreal Canadians are decently large domestic brands, both Hicks and Gillett know that Liverpool is a much bigger asset.  For businessmen, owning the biggest and the best everything is a priority, and I doubt they'll let us go easily.  What would force their hand is if they cannot sell their other assets and remain in their current position until they have to refinance.  Here's to hoping they can't find a buyer.
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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 09:03:58 PM »
This is all in a effort to be in a better position to refinance.  While the Dallas Stars and the Montreal Canadians are decently large domestic brands, both Hicks and Gillett know that Liverpool is a much bigger asset.  For businessmen, owning the biggest and the best everything is a priority, and I doubt they'll let us go easily.  What would force their hand is if they cannot sell their other assets and remain in their current position until they have to refinance.  Here's to hoping they can't find a buyer.

It's not surprising how suddenly both of them are trying to raise funds at the same time by attempting to sell shares in their existing businesses across the pond. Sounds like RBS has read some riot act? If so, it would be interesting to learn if the RBS have included any penalties  should H&G not manage to raise enough equity for the refinancing.

I also wonder what the Rangers fans would make of this new move by Hicks, considering he publicly announced in 2007 that  "Liverpool Can Fund The Texas Rangers". Maybe that's what he is now intending to do?

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 09:05:56 PM »
Oh fuck our worst nightmare come true they know how big the Liverpool monster is and they are putting all their eggs in one basket by the looks of it  :butt :butt :butt
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Offline fry

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 09:13:05 PM »
Oh fuck our worst nightmare come true they know how big the Liverpool monster is and they are putting all their eggs in one basket by the looks of it  :butt :butt :butt
I never actually seen the above video.  Heard of what he said etc, what a greed greedy man.  The only things he knows about our fans is that we turn out in extra numbers which makes him happy as their will always be bums on seats.
Hicks has his nose in our collective wallet.
Disclaimer: The above post may not be based on facts even if stated as fact.

Offline redprodigal

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2009, 09:32:22 PM »
Yep, the last month has finally brought home to these 2 muppets what our club is really about. We've come a long way since they bought us, we are now right up there and they can see what our manager has done with everything that has been going on around him and with a budget that is not as big as the likes of Utd and Chelsea. Maybe they realise what he would be capable of achieving with a bit more financial support and they are now in the process of gathering up more financial clout which will enable them to get the refinancing deal they want. They can now see that we could indeed become the cash cow they envisaged a couple of years ago despite the crunch. Looks like they are going nowhere for quite a while.

Offline TSC

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 09:41:23 PM »
Yep, the last month has finally brought home to these 2 muppets what our club is really about. We've come a long way since they bought us, we are now right up there and they can see what our manager has done with everything that has been going on around him and with a budget that is not as big as the likes of Utd and Chelsea. Maybe they realise what he would be capable of achieving with a bit more financial support and they are now in the process of gathering up more financial clout which will enable them to get the refinancing deal they want. They can now see that we could indeed become the cash cow they envisaged a couple of years ago despite the crunch. Looks like they are going nowhere for quite a while.

LFC would only become the magic cash cow they envisaged with a capacity of at least another 20k.  This isn't possible without a new ground or some major investment to extend Anfield.  Fail to see how they can afford either if they're struggling to refinance.  What they're doing is freeing up capital maybe with a view to extending current committments beyond July.  This is just to retain the status quo though.

However I think we're stuck with them, simply because they can't sell at the mo.

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2009, 09:43:28 PM »
Just throwing this out there ,

but is it not possible they know refinancing wont be a major issue and perhaps they are trying to release funds to start the new stadium ? ?
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Offline redprodigal

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2009, 09:52:28 PM »
Just throwing this out there ,

but is it not possible they know refinancing wont be a major issue and perhaps they are trying to release funds to start the new stadium ? ?

It's possible because refinancing won't be a major issue at all.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2009, 10:02:34 PM »
Just throwing this out there ,

but is it not possible they know refinancing wont be a major issue and perhaps they are trying to release funds to start the new stadium ? ?

Forbes valued the Texas Rangers at $412 million last year. Forbes reckon the Dallas stars were worth $273 million last year. Hicks owns 95% of both making his holdings worth $650.75 million.

Assuming he manages to sell half of those holdings at last year's values, that would net him $350.4 million or c.240 million.

edit: 325.4 million or c.222.88 million - I can divide by two. Sometimes :D
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 10:07:08 PM by Zeb »
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Offline TSC

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2009, 10:04:28 PM »
Just throwing this out there ,

but is it not possible they know refinancing wont be a major issue and perhaps they are trying to release funds to start the new stadium ? ?

I'd guess though they'll be asking for premium prices for shares in their US interests.  Why would this be attractive to potential investors in todays economy when they can't drum up any interest in Liverpool at their premium prices?

Offline TSC

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2009, 10:06:00 PM »
Forbes valued the Texas Rangers at $412 million last year. Forbes reckon the Dallas stars were worth $273 million last year. Hicks owns 95% of both making his holdings worth $650.75 million.

Assuming he manages to sell half of those holdings at last year's values, that would net him $350.4 million or c.240 million.

I'd guess those figures will have reduced though, maybe considerably, given what's happened over the last 12 months.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2009, 10:08:43 PM »
I'd guess those figures will have reduced though, maybe considerably, given what's happened over the last 12 months.

You'd have thought so. Knock 25% off or so at least from those valuations? And then you're looking at him just about covering half of the RBS loan...
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Offline TSC

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2009, 10:10:55 PM »
You'd have thought so. Knock 25% off or so at least from those valuations? And then you're looking at him just about covering half of the RBS loan...

And a fair way off funding a new stadium, even with the fall in steel, construction costs, etc.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2009, 10:13:19 PM »
And a fair way off funding a new stadium, even with the fall in steel, construction costs, etc.

Was the estimate a 30% reduction in the costs of the stadium?

Just running through the scenarios, what happens if Hicks pays his half of the loan back and Gillette doesn't?
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Offline TSC

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2009, 10:17:49 PM »
Was the estimate a 30% reduction in the costs of the stadium?

Just running through the scenarios, what happens if Hicks pays his half of the loan back and Gillette doesn't?

It's one loan against the club assets.  In the unlikely event of the bank calling it in then it would need to be paid in full.  Won't happen anyway.

Offline OneKop

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2009, 10:18:43 PM »
Forbes valued the Texas Rangers at $412 million last year. Forbes reckon the Dallas stars were worth $273 million last year. Hicks owns 95% of both making his holdings worth $650.75 million.

Assuming he manages to sell half of those holdings at last year's values, that would net him $350.4 million or c.240 million.

edit: 325.4 million or c.222.88 million - I can divide by two. Sometimes :D

Thats assuming he OWNES them, probably owes 95% of that in loans on them.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2009, 10:25:01 PM »
It's one loan against the club assets.  In the unlikely event of the bank calling it in then it would need to be paid in full.  Won't happen anyway.

Thanks TSC. Looks like this isn't some crafty bit of work to force Gillette out on the cheap, but just him trying to raise cash before he loses all the profit he's made on those teams then?
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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2009, 10:33:47 PM »
It's one loan against the club assets.  In the unlikely event of the bank calling it in then it would need to be paid in full.  Won't happen anyway.

this is inaccurate.

it is not one loan secured against the clubs assets.

the loan has been explained before here:
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=209084.0

105m is against the club.

245m is against Kop Holding Ltd.

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Offline RedJam70

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2009, 10:37:38 PM »
Thats assuming he OWNES them, probably owes 95% of that in loans on them.

He has debt outstanding on both of them. Debt to value ratio is 65% on the Rangers and 73% on the Stars. Although I don't know if that will have any bearing on him getting investors involved etc.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/33/biz_baseball08_The-Business-Of-Baseball_DOV.html

http://www.forbes.com/sports/lists/2008/31/nhl08_NHL-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

However he's been searching for investors for the last 4-5 months and not yet succeeded.

"I'm looking quietly, and have been for the last four or five months, for minority investors to come back into the Rangers at the new value of the club as a way to be prudent about the economy," said Hicks,

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/032609dnspohickslede.41a8e71.html

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2009, 10:38:13 PM »
this is inaccurate.

it is not one loan secured against the clubs assets.

the loan has been explained before here:
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=209084.0

105m is against the club.

245m is against Kop Holding Ltd.



So the debt is 350 million then?

Offline redprodigal

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2009, 10:49:09 PM »
So the debt is 350 million then?

Gillett said recently that the amount reported was wide of the mark so I don't really think many of us know the actual amount of the debt (but he would say that wouldn't he)

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2009, 10:55:25 PM »
its simple really..they cant find a buyer cause there asking for too much or want to keep a share (Hicks anyway) and need to raise the capital so they can refinance or come to a deal bout the refinancing as they do not want the club to be sold cheaply. They both want out but only at their asking price at this moment and are selling other assets to remain in this postion.

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2009, 11:01:02 PM »
I guess all we can do is wait , no one will know what they are up to for sure until they tell us themselves . .
and even then we wont believe it .

What a fookin mess . . . .
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