Topic: Old photos of and around Liverpool

[vicgill]

know it very well, just been refurbished hasnt it?

It certainly didn't look like that in the old days, great memories

[vicgill]

know it very well, just been refurbished hasnt it?

Hiya mate, I have spent ages going through all my pm's looking for some from Bernie (al daas) but only found these. hopefully there may be some names that you remember.

"Had a bad year or so Vic, had a stroke last June, cancer of the gullet last October, operated on November, heart attack which was brought upon by my op, pneunomia and mrsa since November, add that to the TB I had when I was 15 im living on borrowed time.but making the most of it.

I'm still underweight but putting it back on slowly, I never was a fatty anyway,

Some bad news though Tommy O Callaghan passed away last year.
I'll be in touch again soon, medicine and a kid calling"

Tommy O'callaghan is seated at the left hand of the front row.

Another one

Hi Vic.
Just a few lines to let you know that all is as well as can be over here, 
apart from the weather that is.
was Archie Stewart in goal for the Deysie when you played ? he lives opposite me now on Princess Drive , I'll pass on your regards if you do know him.
I Was talking to John Chris last night in St Tims, not about football, just general chit chat, he's in good health, still as blind as a bat though, he plays darts from memory.
Well Vic ,not much to report, so best wishes, and next time I'm over in Spain
I may call in for a quick half.

Best wishes
Bernie.

The lad he called John Chris, full name is Christofferson (spelling)

Another one

Tony Whittick wants to know who threw the fist pie at the presentation in the 12 club.
You are the chief suspect, what do you have to say in your defence.

The 12 club was the old REME barracks, some fool organised a stag night, presentation of cups and such like for several pubs in the area, The Bluebell, The Bow and Arrow, Eagle and child, the Wheatsheaf, the Yewtree and a few others, over 300 lads in the hall and the strippers didn't turn up, The compare tried to pass himself off as a comedian and failed then he asked for people to get up and sing, I was on the verge of being a bit pissed so I threw my meat pie at the lad singing on stage, all his mates came over to our table and said it was my turn to sing, I told them to fuck off and then all hell let loose.

Another one. the one I dreaded to hear.

Vic.
Alright mate a bit of good news and bad.
The good news is that I saw Johnno last week and he wants to know when you'll be over again for a pint or six.
The bad news is me, I'm riddled with cancer and i've been told that there is nothing that can be done, I've learned to live with it to a certain extent and I'm going to have my wake dead or alive in the Deysie on the 12 feb, hope I'm alive 'cos it should be a good do.
Best wishes to you and yours, take care,
Bernie

I can tell you that he had his wake in the Deysbrook, he sent me a video of him playing his guitar and singing, he died soon after.

[jackh]

Anybody able to confirm where the Grand Cinema was, on Smithdown Road?  Initially expected it to be the buildings consisting of, and around, the Handyman Supermarket but there appear to be reasons to doubt that.  Then I considered that it could be where the Tribeca is now.  I've settled on it's most likely location being where Tesco/Carphone Warehouse, etc, sit now.

[Big Red Richie]

I don't know how to do screenshots of google maps, so bear with me.



Lets take the second picture first.

The shadows from the sun run right to left, so that puts the cinema on the North side of the street. - The side of The Mystery.



Secondly, if you look into the distance at the bend of the road, bending away to the right.

There's only two places on the whole length of Smithdown, with that combination of right to left shadows, and a right handed bend in the road.

The first one is approaching the railway bridge at the junction of Grant Ave, whilst standing outside Jallons Restaurant.
The fact there's no railway bridge rules this location out.

The second location, and the one that I think is correct is just past Smithdow Electrical, and the Fireplace shop, Warm Surroundings.


I reccon the site of this cinema is the corner of Smithdown Rd and Fallowfield road. Exactly where Penny Lane Motors now stands.

Let me explain.

First of all, from the first photo above. Look at the angle of the side road off Smithdown.
It's not at an angle of 90 degrees to Smithdown road, but more like 40 degrees.  Which on the North side of Smithdown, only makes it about one of about  a handfull of roads.

One of the biggest deciding factors though is that almost all of Smithdown raod is still intact with late Victorian/early Edwardian buildings.

One of the only locations that has changed or has modern buildings on it, is the stretch between Fallowfield Road, on the left,  up to about Tribeca. (other side of the road)

I can only asume that this section was a victim of the blitz, circa 1941, hence why it's one on the only sections of Smithdown that doesn't have vintage buildings.

That would also explain the fact that the building you pictured is now, no longer standing.


Adding all of those factors up, with a bit of detective work, -----  North side of the road -- right hand bend in the distance -- no other vintage buildings missing on Smithdown --- I reckon it pretty much ties it down to that location.   


Edit:

And the caption on this photo would kind of tie that in.


'Inside the Grand Cinema, Smithdown Road. Thanks to Penny Lane Motor Company for the image.'

http://louiselynn.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/smithdown-road/

[Tsar Kastik]

This is a decent approximation I think

[Tsar Kastik]

A couple more from that area, bit small I'm sorry

[G a r y]

Brilliant detective work.

Enjoyed reading that haha. I've grew up off Smithdown all my life so it was interesting to see where that building was.

What is the big chimney in the pic above?

[vicgill]

To Tsar Kastik and Big Red Richie, my sincere apologies for going off topic, I genuinely thought I might be able to help "And he could Play" I love this thread and most of the stuff I love in here is down to you two. So once again I apologise.

[Tsar Kastik]

Vic behave yourself - it led from pictures of 'old Liverpool' footballers, so it was all perfectly legit, and interesting too

[Big Red Richie]

No sweat Vic.   If this particular thread has taught me one thing, it's that there's always another tangent around the next corner corner. *


*Usually just behind the now demolished pub, and next to the derelict grocers.   

[vicgill]

Vic behave yourself - it led from pictures of 'old Liverpool' footballers, so it was all perfectly legit, and interesting too

No sweat Vic.   If this particular thread has taught me one thing, it's that there's always another tangent around the next corner corner. *


*Usually just behind the now demolished pub, and next to the derelict grocers.   

thanks lads 

[Big Red Richie]

I bet you you all know this scene. 

[The Gulleysucker]

Not changed much...

[Big Red Richie]

 

[John C]

.

Did you mention the bend in the distance from where Adsa is mate?

[Big Red Richie]

Did you mention the bend in the distance from where Adsa is mate?

Eh?
 There is no bend in the road.  Well not until you reach either Lodge Ln/Tunnel Rd in one direction, or The junction of Ullet Road/Greenbank Dr. in the other.  Nether of which, bends to the right.

In fact, thats the straightest part of Smithdown there is.


From the ASDA,  looking towards town, Smithdown is pretty much straight as a die, with the exception of a slight kink, right in front of the ASDA. All the way to Lodge Ln/Tunnel Road.

Looking in that direction, the shadows would be left to right, and rule that location out. To further add, all of the left side of the road looking in that direction is still all Victorian properties/ cemetery, and not changed in a long time, with the exception of the Sefton General site.

From Asda looking towards Allerton, nothing on the left/North side of the raod has changed much, and is all original Victorian buildings/shop fronts.

[John C]

If you come back towards town doesn't it bend? My minds eye may not be as effective as yours Richie.

[The Gulleysucker]

If you come back towards town doesn't it bend? My minds eye may not be as effective as yours Richie.

For some reason I can't quite get this image out of my mind....


 

On the Smithdown road bit, I think Tsar was spot on up above, those houses on the right line up perfectly.

Just been digging around to see if there are any Blitz pics that might explain the Smithdown changes and found this..

Portman road at the junction with Smithdown road  
source

Also found a great site, apologies if it's been linked before, but hundreds of interesting pics if you follow the links at the top, North, South, City Centre etc...
http://www.liverpoolpicturebook.com/

[Tsar Kastik]

The 'same' Portman Road in 1958

[vicgill]

This the house where I lived until 1965, the house on the left of the picture is where Albie Donelly lived. Got this off Google Earth, never done that before, a bit chuffed with myself. The small extention has been added since my mum left in 1980.


If you could see that from above there is quite a decent size garden at the back, big enough to take the goal I made and he onion bags my mum sewed together to make the net,When I was a kid I used to earn my pocket money digging it,I must stress not the part my goal was on. As a kid my bedroom was the one over the front door, when my brother joined the Navy I got the back bedroom (bigger).
Spent some of the happiest days of my life there.
 
 

[And Could He Play]

where is that Vic?

[The Gulleysucker]

where is that Vic?

If you click on the picture it says in the top right hand corner....
Feltwood Rd.

[Matt S]

Thank you for that Portman Road image. My Grandad lived on Edgerton Road during the war, where my great grandad had built their own shelter under the stairs as they were still waiting for a morrison shelter. My Grandad insists it was indestructable.

Anyway he's always told me of the absolutely huge explosion during an air raid one night, to the point where they thought they'd been hit themselves. Turns out the hit was at the bottom of the road (he lived nearer the top) where he describes there being a huge crater. We've always been able to see where it was by the newer houses at the end of edgerton road, but seeing that image of Portman road really gives me some idea of what he was talking about.

I just have no idea how these people lived through it. He talks about it as if it was a normal thing to have these bombs reigning down on you, survival being based on pure luck that one didn't land on your head.

[And Could He Play]

If you click on the picture it says in the top right hand corner....
Feltwood Rd.

ah by mab lane, i was in mab lane when i was very young

[Tsar Kastik]

Thank you for that Portman Road image. My Grandad lived on Edgerton Road during the war, where my great grandad had built their own shelter under the stairs as they were still waiting for a morrison shelter. My Grandad insists it was indestructable.

Anyway he's always told me of the absolutely huge explosion during an air raid one night, to the point where they thought they'd been hit themselves. Turns out the hit was at the bottom of the road (he lived nearer the top) where he describes there being a huge crater. We've always been able to see where it was by the newer houses at the end of edgerton road, but seeing that image of Portman road really gives me some idea of what he was talking about.

I just have no idea how these people lived through it. He talks about it as if it was a normal thing to have these bombs reigning down on you, survival being based on pure luck that one didn't land on your head.

If you go on this site, you'll find right down the bottom of the page a link to all the places that were bombed; it's a PDF so you'll need to Ctrl F to search.

Portman Road isn't on it, but it mentions houses on Smithdown Road being hit - so I assume it's the same hit.

Egerton Road and Smithdown/Toxteth Park cemetery were both hit on the same night by parachute bombs; Smithdown area was bombed 3 nights in the space of 5 days for some reason.


http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/Historical/blitzCronology.htm

[Big Red Richie]

Just to add to that.

If you walk up Bagot Street - right facing the Smithdown Rd ASDA, going towards Lawrence Road, the street is full of Victorian terraces, with the exception of one side of the street..

Another hit during the blitz.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&cp=5&gs_id=i&xhr=t&q=bagot&safe=off&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=38897761&biw=1366&bih=577&wrapid=tljp135403074415808&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

[The Gulleysucker]

Rummaging around to locate a view of the Egerton Rd bomb damage I discovered this scene from an earlier period.

The aftermath of anti-German Riots in May '15 in Liverpool after the sinking of the Lusitania...



283 Breck Road  from the ever excellent Streets

And the streetview scene today....

[Big Red Richie]

Different site, but by the same fella.

http://fotolore.com/anti-german-riots-1915 


**ehem** you'll notice the comments underneath. 


Here it is today, Corner of Breck Road and Coniston Street. Which I took earlier this year.

[The Gulleysucker]

**ehem** you'll notice the comments underneath. 

I wonder who that Richie fella is?

Here's one I've been thinking of trying to find where (from Liverpool Remembrance)....

Any ideas?

[And Could He Play]

I wonder who that Richie fella is?

Here's one I've been thinking of trying to find where (from Liverpool Remembrance)....

Any ideas?

you know what wild wild wild guess. is that lime street, when you turn just after skelhorne street, the boozers the, just before x in the city.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=lime+street+station&hl=en&ll=53.406737,-2.979832&spn=0.001567,0.004989&hq=station&hnear=Lime+St,+Liverpool,+Merseyside+L1,+United+Kingdom&t=m&fll=53.406596,-2.97987&fspn=0.001567,0.004989&z=18

[And Could He Play]

in fact it looks like the croc, ill put it on twitter see if anyone knows.

[Big Red Richie]

I've podered the question of which pub this is in the past. But only very briefly.

Maybe now's the time to dig a little deeper.  I like a good sluth hunt. 


It could be from anywhere in the city to be fair.

Looking at the megre evidence available, it looks like either granite or red granite that the facade is is made of.

I may have to go trawling all four volumes of Freddy O'Connor's books, A Pub On Every Corner, to see if I can spot any clues to it's location.

[And Could He Play]

it could richie yeah, i totally agree, just the first thing that came to my mind was the pub i mentioned. so i went with that

[Big Red Richie]

Lets be honest, if it was still standing today, I reckon one of us would know it straight away....... that is if it's a city centre pub.

Further out, and it's people with the local knowledge that might spot it.


Being realistic though, and knowing thet Liverpool has lost about 70-80% of it's pubs since the 1940s, there's a more than likely chance that it's no longer with us.

Time to trawl the old pub photo's, me thinks.

[And Could He Play]

would love it if you found out what boozer that was. love things like this.

[The Gulleysucker]

.....Time to trawl the old pub photo's, me thinks.

Richie, if you look above the hat on the guy on the left in the doorway, just below the sign and inside the arch, you can make out what looks to me like a horse statue. It might just be a tantalising clue to the name of the place.

[Big Red Richie]

Richie, if you look above the hat on the guy on the left in the doorway, just below the sign and inside the arch, you can make out what looks to me like a horse statue. It might just be a tantalising clue to the name of the place.

Already spotted it first time around. 

[The Gulleysucker]

Richie, this might help narrow the search, a special Google map created by the Echo of where all the bombs fell...

[Big Red Richie]

Richie, this might help narrow the search, a special Google map created by the Echo of where all the bombs fell...

An interesting site that, but I don't think it's anywhere near complete or accurate enough.

I've just had a five minute ganzy at it, and I know at least four locations that were hit by bombs that aren't on that map. And thats without even looking very hard.

It's a nice beginning, and could be an excellent site if it was fully accurate.  I suspect though, that to list all of the bomb damage coult take an individual an inordinate amount of time to complete.

[kavah]

Warning, this will bring a tear to your eyes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq_Zkishh1Q&feature=related