Author Topic: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez  (Read 17968 times)

Offline xavidub

  • Not on message, ennui
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,355
  • SOS Member No. 6218
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2007, 10:53:34 pm »
Excellent read. Though I can't help thinking that all these coaches are very orientated to the CL. Somehow I don't think Blackburn or Reading offer the same type of challenge as Real Madrid.


I saw Sacchi at the airport in Athens, it was very funny (and lets face it, there wasn't much to laugh about in Athens), he looked like a mafia don with Desailly as his favourite hitman and gangs of Milanesi shouting "Sacchi, Sacchi".

You have to try very hard to see what's going on in front of your face

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,979
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2007, 11:01:27 pm »
We have a talented manager on our hands, lets make sure we back him and keep him.
He will take us were we want to go.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline Gazza74

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2007, 11:07:20 pm »
I agree with that 4pool totally.

It's just whether the impatient section of our support will let our manager do what he wants to do.

Right from the academy up to the first team Rafa is wanting to build a dynasty and with the likes of Piet Hamberg coming into our academy the kids we will have coming through will be technically brilliant in 3,4 and 5 years and if we are patient we have a manager to make the most of them.

Unfortunately with the way modern football is i fear if we don't start winning games and fast we may lose Rafa which would be sad indeed because at 47 he is still young and his prime years are ahead of him still.

Do we want to miss out on them here??..I hope not.
"Scousers here, Scousers there, Scousers f***ing everywhere, nah, nah ,nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline b_joseph

  • b_jesus, b_mary, b_joseph and the wee b_donkey. Unloyal gloryhunter who was probably Kelly Osbourne in another life.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,621
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2007, 11:28:59 pm »
I'm not quite sure what to take from that...

Sacchi kinda said that Benitez wants his teams be very very compact and play the game as a well oiled machine, that it unspectacular, but efficient.

That being said...I think that works in La Liga because the game is more open and creative is extremely ripe there.
But in this league, every team is ridiculously well structured and they all are very disciplined. So as a consequence..it just doesnt end up being quite as effective over a 38 game, 9 month grind.


It is going to be very interesting to see how Rafa eradicates this problem.

Offline jambutty

  • The Gok Wan of RAWK. Tripespotting Advocate. Oakley style guru. Hardman St. arl arse, "Ridiculously cool" -Atko- Impending U.S. Civil War Ostrich. Too old to suffer wankers and WUMs on here.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,864
  • June 20, 2009. Still no justice for Neda
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2007, 11:34:39 pm »
Of course, what this means, dear dissatisfieds, is that unless you can name a better manager than the one we have,

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET HIM ACHIEVE HIS VISION!
Kill the humourless

Offline Sissoko78

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 435
  • Pressing is the first step in attacking, no?
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2007, 11:56:57 pm »
Thanks Spanish Fan.  Great read.

Offline tea_tree

  • oily and antiseptic.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,843
  • Walk on with hope in your heart
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2007, 12:06:47 am »
I'm not quite sure what to take from that...

Sacchi kinda said that Benitez wants his teams be very very compact and play the game as a well oiled machine, that it unspectacular, but efficient.

That being said...I think that works in La Liga because the game is more open and creative is extremely ripe there.
But in this league, every team is ridiculously well structured and they all are very disciplined. So as a consequence..it just doesnt end up being quite as effective over a 38 game, 9 month grind.


It is going to be very interesting to see how Rafa eradicates this problem.


I think the bit that everyone needed to take from that was:

Quote
He is a master like very few, and when you have an encyclopaedia like him on the bench you have to trust the master. Rafa reminds me of myself when I was young. He is like me in some ways, but he has gone higher than me. He won the league and the UEFA Cup with Valencia. He arrived at Liverpool with a better CV than me when I arrived at Milan from Parma. I don’t share the opinion that Rafa can only coach teams without stars. If the star players don’t work hard they are worth nothing. You can see proof of that at Real Madrid last season.

People like to make little snide insinuations about Rafa and cast doubt on what he has achieved. The great man says he is a master and there are only a few like him. I fear that the mindless mob who don't like Rafa because the media says so or because they are just xenophobic will cause a great loss to LFC.
"At Liverpool I have never pulled back, I also went to war together with my fans"

Rafa Benitez

Offline Mighty_Red

  • Rojo Poderoso!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,020
  • All hail the King...
    • Join the fight - SOS
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2007, 12:38:36 am »
I refuse to take advice from someone like Paul Parker or Charlie Nicholas, they are morons without a clue and are only getting chances to write/rant because of the massive explosion of sports in the media (due to extra channels/internet etc)

At the moment the media seem intent of driving an ever increasing wedge between Rafa & Stevie and Crouch. They dont seem to comment on anyone else (apart from Torres) so its only really an Foreign coach, English player thing going on. The media frenzy has certainly got to the players, if your manager is being constantly questioned by these so-called experts (who've mostly been abject failures in management), it can make the players play within themselves instead being able to relax and play their natural game.

I think we need to try and get the basics right, and take it from there, Im pretty sure Rafa still has the knowledge to get things right.
Some clubs were always destined for greatness...

Offline shanklyboy

  • OCB Enforcer.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,591
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2007, 01:01:46 am »
I don't understand why Sacchi never mentioned Pako anywhere!!!
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy.
www.savelfc.org

Offline tea_tree

  • oily and antiseptic.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,843
  • Walk on with hope in your heart
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2007, 02:54:14 am »
Pako was such a great manager, Sacchi didn't need to mention him. Some things go without saying!
"At Liverpool I have never pulled back, I also went to war together with my fans"

Rafa Benitez

Offline KULPete

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 85
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2007, 03:42:10 am »
Thanks much SF.  I enjoyed that too and reminded me again as to the main reason why RB was hired.  To reestablish the great footballing machines of the "Fab 4" ( Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, King Kenny ) eras not with just  winning the odd one or two trophies but with a regular multitude for seasons to come.  I will gladly wait another season for number 19 if it meant three back to back PL trophies in a row.  Clearly still a work in progress.  The most important thing for me is still that there be improvement ( staying within three wins of the top ).  Chelsea made the mistake of letting Moanrinho go... I just hope that we don't make the same mistake with our El Generalissimo.  As rightly pointed out in previous posts, where are we going to find another "encyclopedia" with RB's knowledge and experience? 8)

Offline Red Rascal

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
  • I believe in Liverpool FC!
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2007, 03:49:16 am »
Thanks Spanish Fan.
I think Rafa knows fans like SF will eventually pot his Spanish Interviews and the true fans will share it and eventually his intent and work philosophy will be known. Its no use talking to those people who do not want to know and are not 'true' fans... Knowledge is King!
"Tactically, I did my job." (Rafa Benitez)

Offline SMD

  • Shit streamer. Can't be found by drive man.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,014
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2007, 04:40:53 am »
But in this league, every team is ridiculously well structured and they all are very disciplined.

...Yer what?

Unless of course "ridiculously well structured" actually means "rigid and one dimensional" then I agree.
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Offline ThisIsMickey

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,050
  • Believer
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2007, 05:25:45 am »
Insightful read as always.
thank you SF.
"100% of the shots you don't take don't go in"

Offline Redshadow

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,691
  • Wir schaffen es diesmal mit Herrn Klopp
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2007, 05:30:16 am »
Rafa hasn't changed a bit, has he? Reading his interview is just like reading his other interviews now, all you have to do is to substitute the word Valencia with Liverpool.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 05:48:09 am by Redshadow »
Whatever an education is, it should make you a unique individual, not a conformist; it should furnish you with an original spirit to tackle big challenges; it should allow you to find values to road map through life; it should make you spiritually rich, a person who loves whatever you are doing, wherever you are.

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2007, 08:15:30 am »
Great infoming read that.
My only worry is Rafa will not be given the time to build his vision. After he had retired Bill Shankly said when he arrived at Anfield he had this vision of building a fortress, a bastion of invincibilty that would last for years. He did. But he was given the time to build that vision, and Paisley was able to complete the dream.
Rafa has stated how he wants to stay at Liverpool long enough to build and leave behind a legacy the likes of what Bill and Bob built and left behind. But I'm more than a wee bit worried that Tom and George will not give him this time. I don't fear they'll suddenly turn into clowns like Abramovich, but I do fear they'll be swayed by the opinons of the English media.
Okay they own the club and are privvy to all the inside knowledge and info. But the fact remains that they are basically armchair fans. And their armchairs maybe the best Texan leather lazy boys, but while they are sat in them they still only have Sky and Andy fuckin Gray to listen to.
I'll probably get slatted for that. But I lived in the states for years. I know how yanks work, especially where the almighty dollar is concerned. And I've already heard the rumblings... Franchise, Results Based Business, Performance v Spending Audits, End Of Season Review and so on. 
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 08:34:55 am by FAT SCOUSER »
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline SMD

  • Shit streamer. Can't be found by drive man.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,014
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2007, 08:41:04 am »
If we're even going to consider the possibility of replacing Benitez (which we shouldn't), who exactly are we supposed to get in his place?
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Offline zigackly

  • ...is Cassius Clay
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,433
  • You're ferpectly right.
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2007, 08:51:34 am »
If we're even going to consider the possibility of replacing Benitez (which we shouldn't), who exactly are we supposed to get in his place?

Dunno ... is this Sacchi bloke any good?
A liar will not be believed, even when he speaks the truth.

Online nayia2002

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,673
    • http://www.victoriacreperie.co.uk/
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2007, 09:14:09 am »
I refuse to take advice from someone like Paul Parker or Charlie Nicholas, they are morons without a clue and are only getting chances to write/rant because of the massive explosion of sports in the media (due to extra channels/internet etc)

At the moment the media seem intent of driving an ever increasing wedge between Rafa & Stevie and Crouch. They dont seem to comment on anyone else (apart from Torres) so its only really an Foreign coach, English player thing going on. The media frenzy has certainly got to the players, if your manager is being constantly questioned by these so-called experts (who've mostly been abject failures in management), it can make the players play within themselves instead being able to relax and play their natural game.

I think we need to try and get the basics right, and take it from there, Im pretty sure Rafa still has the knowledge to get things right.
good one mate! unfortunately not everyone is that understanding!!
who are you to judge the life i live?
i know im not perfect-and i dont live to be,
but before you start pointing fingers make
sure your hands are clean!.

Offline Skillz

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2007, 09:36:44 am »
to be honest, at LFC I think he gets exactly what every manager wants - time, money, a quality club and the chance to build everything his way.

It's only the support of the fans he needs to build his dynasty.
Carra is Ours - So fuck off!!!

Offline Corki

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • "It's never the wrong time to do the right thing"
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2007, 10:25:10 am »
It's only the support of the fans he needs to build his dynasty.


There you go, thats it in a nutshell.......but I'm afraid our new generation of Andy Gray clones is growing by the day, if we fail to win something they'll be up in arms with all the media fuelled bollix about money spent, time given, and failure to live up to expectation........3 or 4 years simply isn't enough time.....ask fergie or Wenger.
We need to find the link between our traditions and our present experience. Nowness, or the magic of the present moment, is what joins the wisdom of the past with the present.

Offline Kopstar

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2007, 10:35:09 am »
You must be proud that two of your pupils are in the final….
I am more than proud. They’ve learnt too much. Last year at Real Madrid when we played Barcelona we had dinner with Laporta and he told me that Rijkaard has learned a lot from me. After our 3-0 defeat I told Laporta that Rijkaard had learnt too much, so have Benitez and Ancelotti.

It is normal in the case of Carlo. After all he played for you. But Benitez went to learn your methods in his honeymoon, that’s stranger…
He came to see me work at Milanello and when I was with the Italian NT.
He is a great coach. He is showing that in a special football like English football. His biggest strength is that he can achieve much with very few top quality players. Gerrard is his most talented player, but he hasn’t got two like him. Liverpool are exemplary in two ways: their spirit and tactical organization. Benitez knows what he is doing. His team lacks talent, but they are a true team, compact, modern and with a great football culture. He’s work has been fantastic.


I think its quite interesting that the last 3 winners of the champions league have a direct link to Arrigo Sacchi.
I like this interview alot. It disproves the belief that Rafa can't work with superstars. If the player works hard then he can still be a superstar in a Rafa side. Just look at the signing of Torres.
This project is clearly a work in progress but we are getting there. Shame on all the doom mongers.
"In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women."

Offline bazeze

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2007, 10:56:17 am »
Great Stuff, Thanks SF

Offline Life

  • goes on.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,982
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2007, 11:12:39 am »
If we're even going to consider the possibility of replacing Benitez (which we shouldn't), who exactly are we supposed to get in his place?

Not exactly a good argument that.  The same was said during Houllier's last year in charge, and the answer was one that very few of us could envisage.

That said, I'd be completely amazed if Rafa is kicked out full stop, never mind at the end of this season.  He might leave for a team like Real Madrid, but I think he'll be here as long as he wants to be here.

Anyway, the way I read that was that our players are sub-standard...and there's no reason for that anymore.  We should be shopping in the same market as Milan...and in fact, I'd be surprised if their squad cost more than ours as it happens.
"Why should they be used in any other way? It wouldn'a be fair for one thing. Natural ability is far too precious tae be messed about wi'."

Offline kopindian

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,951
    • Films I Watch
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2007, 11:48:28 am »
thanks for that SF

Offline wilo in berlin

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,344
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2007, 12:05:44 pm »
Not exactly a good argument that.  The same was said during Houllier's last year in charge, and the answer was one that very few of us could envisage.

That said, I'd be completely amazed if Rafa is kicked out full stop, never mind at the end of this season.  He might leave for a team like Real Madrid, but I think he'll be here as long as he wants to be here.

Anyway, the way I read that was that our players are sub-standard...and there's no reason for that anymore.  We should be shopping in the same market as Milan...and in fact, I'd be surprised if their squad cost more than ours as it happens.
I got that too. Players not good enough.

Rafa has always looked for the correct style of player in each position. Firstly, he had to start from scrap pretty much and brought players like Alonso, Reina etc who are up to the grade. There are then players like Nunez Josemi who were bought more for their position than being the best players available.

These compromises take time to sort themselves out. We're not at the stage yet, even in year four, where we are buying a couple of players to add to the squad. We're still buying vital players that help the team play in the proper way. Lucas is maybe the first player that duplicates real quality that we already have... it might be time to play him due to injuries. Rotating him and Gerrard, or him and Alonso according to the required tactics of the match and fitness would be the perfect scenario.

It might take a few years, but we'll see the benefit of all the new youngsters finally when one or two of them make the grade after learning our style from a young age in the reserves.

Milan are at the stage where they can buy a couple of players and slowly change the squad. They've got one of the oldest average ages too at 30+


Offline Bosshog

  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,245
  • what a hit son.....WHAT A HIT!!!!!!!
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2007, 12:21:54 pm »
when Rafa has had enough of our small minded journalists, and dare i say supporters,
and leaves us for pastures new and peace!
we will then notice what we lost..........the biggest mistake in years will happen when he goes in summer.....mark my words
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose: it's how drunk you get!!

Homer Simpson

Offline Skillz

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2007, 12:35:19 pm »
when Rafa has had enough of our small minded journalists, and dare i say supporters,
and leaves us for pastures new and peace!
we will then notice what we lost..........the biggest mistake in years will happen when he goes in summer.....mark my words

No way!! The Yanks have committed, he is going no where. Only way he is going is if the fans turn against him and I do not see that. Sure the Internet at the moment might show that but they are a loud minority.

Fuck em!
Carra is Ours - So fuck off!!!

Offline Steele_uk

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2007, 12:49:48 pm »
quote  Sacchi
Liverpool are exemplary in two ways: their spirit and tactical organization. Benitez knows what he is doing. His team lacks talent, but they are a true team, compact, modern and with a great football culture. He’s work has been fantastic.


I enjoyed the article but this statement stood out to me.  Why do our team lack talent? I am not saying i disagree, but have the signings not turned out as expected? Or are we making poor signings?

The existing players around that time not signed by Rafa would have been Gerrard, Carra, Finnan, Risse and Hyppia.  Now i wouldn't have swapped ANY (yes even JAR) of them for any others in the prem before the Athens final.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 01:10:07 pm by Steele_uk »

royhendo

  • Guest
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2007, 01:05:56 pm »
Thanks Spanish Fan. I'm changing my signature to this:

Quote
It is normal in the case of Carlo. After all he played for you. But Benitez went to learn your methods in his honeymoon, that’s stranger…

He came to see me work at Milanello and when I was with the Italian NT.
He is a great coach. He is showing that in a special football like English football. His biggest strength is that he can achieve much with very few top quality players. Gerrard is his most talented player, but he hasn’t got two like him. Liverpool are exemplary in two ways: their spirit and tactical organization. Benitez knows what he is doing. His team lacks talent, but they are a true team, compact, modern and with a great football culture. He’s work has been fantastic.

Offline pinky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,956
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2007, 01:13:47 pm »
quote  Sacchi
Liverpool are exemplary in two ways: their spirit and tactical organization. Benitez knows what he is doing. His team lacks talent, but they are a true team, compact, modern and with a great football culture. He’s work has been fantastic.


I enjoyed the article but this statement stood out to me.  Why do our team lack talent? I am not saying i disagree, but have the signings not turned out as expected? Or are we making poor signings?

The existing players around that time not signed by Rafa would have been Gerrard, Carra, Finnan, Risse and Hyppia.  Now i wouldn't have swapped ANY (yes even JAR) of them for any otheres in the prem before the Athens final.

Carra, Riise, Finnan and Hyypia are very good team players but none of them can be described as footballers that mark a difference. Out of the players Rafa has signed since he took over I'd say just Alonso or Torres can be labelled as players who are particularly talented. Agger is also a very technical player but his influence in attack is more limited due to his position.

The most talented players are the most expensive ones, but had Rafa gone for those type of players since the beggining he'd not been able to rebuild a strong squad which is one of the bases for Benitez's way of working.

Having said this, I think Rafa expected some of his signings to have worked better than they did. He probably saw players like Pennant or Mark Gonzalez and thought their performances would be very good in relation to the price paid for them.


Offline Life

  • goes on.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,982
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2007, 01:16:12 pm »
quote  Sacchi
Liverpool are exemplary in two ways: their spirit and tactical organization. Benitez knows what he is doing. His team lacks talent, but they are a true team, compact, modern and with a great football culture. He’s work has been fantastic.


I enjoyed the article but this statement stood out to me.  Why do our team lack talent? I am not saying i disagree, but have the signings not turned out as expected? Or are we making poor signings?

The existing players around that time not signed by Rafa would have been Gerrard, Carra, Finnan, Risse and Hyppia.  Now i wouldn't have swapped ANY (yes even JAR) of them for any otheres in the prem before the Athens final.

I think we're making poor signing.  Quantity not quality...which I've got to say is just like Houllier did as a general rule of thumb, and it was his downfall.

He had to replace a sub-standard squad that was built up by Houllier, and in general has done ok...but ok doesn't win you the league.  Particulary in attack, he's not bought well.
Kaka behind Inzhagi or Gerrard behind Kuyt.  Spot the weak-link, spot why we didn't win #6 and instead they got #7.  We've now finally gone out and got that top drawer striker in Torres, but he's the only one.
I love Crouch, but jesus he's slow.
I like Kuyt simply because of the effort he puts in, but there's no way he gives defenders sleepless nights the night before playing us.
Voronin the jury is out, but no way we were beating off the cream of Europe to secure his signature.
Before them there was Bellamy who I think was hugely underused and underutlised, but again, we never snapped him up with Chelsea closing in. 
And then there's Babel who could be many things, but a winger (what we needed) won't be one. 
Benayoun who is again second tier fare, although I'd be playing every week because he at least gives us something different. 
Morientes - never going to adapt to the pace of the game over here.  I know that in hindsight, Rafa should have known it in advance.
Zenden - most unspectacular left-winger since Carter.
Gonzales - might still come back and might still be a decent player, but didn't do it.
Nunez - a make-weight and decent player who did a good job for us (despite people thinking he should get lumped in with Josemi on the dud front) but again, second tier at best.
Pennant - I like him, and I think we're better with him on the pitch, but he's not the full package and never will be.

In terms of attacking players, he's not signed well...and he has signed a fair few.  A few bob more spent on 1 or 2 top class players would see us in a much better position.  Only Garcia and Torres I'd say are of the standard that we need if we're going to be challenging for the league.

Conversely, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina, Arbeloa, Carson - all very, very good signings of the highest quality...and easily outweigh the odd dud in Paletta, Josemi (got as much back as we paid for him), Kronkamp (did ok and again recouped our money).
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 01:21:37 pm by Life »
"Why should they be used in any other way? It wouldn'a be fair for one thing. Natural ability is far too precious tae be messed about wi'."

royhendo

  • Guest
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2007, 01:18:54 pm »
I have to say, aged 33, that Milan under Sacchi was, along with our own two sides from the 80s, the most dominant and impressive football team I've ever had the pleasure to watch (on live TV, mind, but still). That's what I find most intriguing and promising about having Benitez at the helm.

Sacchi's quote here sums up the recruitment (and selling policy) we've seen thus far under Benitez:

Quote
I don’t share the opinion that Rafa can only coach teams without stars. If the star players don’t work hard they are worth nothing. You can see proof of that at Real Madrid last season.

Ideally you buy players with both, but thus far we've only arguably been able to buy a handful of those players (Reina, Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, possibly Agger...). Hard work comes cheaper than the highest quality, hence thus far we've focused on that side of the equation. Give it time and it'll grow and grow.


If memory serves, here was their typical starting 11.

Galli

Tassotti
Costacurta 
Baresi
Maldini

Evani
Costacurta
Rijkaard
Donadoni

Van Basten
Gullit

If we do a 'like-for-like', we've probably got the workrate aspect covered in most positions, but we're a little short of quality in most departments (be honest now). It's a fine line really. It's backed up by the players we know Rafa's tried to sign in the past, because they all fit the template (Vidic, Malouda, Simao, Diaby, etc etc). The more departments we manage to reach parity in, the closer we'll get to our goal.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 01:23:32 pm by royhendo »

Offline -HH-

  • 'cocky bastard'?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,405
  • Never forget the Hillsborough victims
    • Footy fans
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2007, 01:19:03 pm »

The Sacchi interview was just before the Athens CH L final.

So he's not saying so much that our squad now lacks quality, but that our squad then did.
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline Life

  • goes on.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,982
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2007, 01:22:39 pm »
So he's not saying so much that our squad now lacks quality, but that our squad then did.
Torres apart...it's not exactly improved since has it?
"Why should they be used in any other way? It wouldn'a be fair for one thing. Natural ability is far too precious tae be messed about wi'."

Offline b_joseph

  • b_jesus, b_mary, b_joseph and the wee b_donkey. Unloyal gloryhunter who was probably Kelly Osbourne in another life.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,621
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2007, 01:25:14 pm »
...Yer what?

Unless of course "ridiculously well structured" actually means "rigid and one dimensional" then I agree.
Yes..that is what I meant. I just wanted to phrase it in a way that wouldnt be disrepectful to the lesser teams in the Premier league.

Rafa really needs to find a way to ''open'' the team up. I hope that he can, but it will take a good few years to do it.

Offline -HH-

  • 'cocky bastard'?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,405
  • Never forget the Hillsborough victims
    • Footy fans
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2007, 01:26:03 pm »
Torres apart...it's not exactly improved since has it?

I'd say Babel is a big improvement on Gonzales, personally. And Lucas for me will be an improvement long term.

The main point still stands though, we're maybe a bit lacking in stnad out individuals that can change a game. I say maybe, because in recent weeks we've been missing Alonso, Torres and Agger. Alonso makes us tick (whether at his best or not) and Torres and Agger are in positions where they are far superior to the squad players to replace them (Sami might argue that but his legs won't stand up to 2 games a week these days.)
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline rafathegaffa

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,116
  • Bang bang Rosie
    • A few songs...
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2007, 01:32:34 pm »
So he's not saying so much that our squad now lacks quality, but that our squad then did.

Still, the only real undisputed talented addition has been Torres... in the "first name on the team-sheet" category.
We have a number of players with limited technique (Riise, Kuyt, Momo) and others like Voronin and Crouch who I can't imagine any of the other top clubs wanting. Babel is a work in progress but I hoped we'd get another certain starter in the summer. Malouda (for a few dollars more) could have slotted in well.

United, Chelsea and Arsenal don't have players with crap technique (bar John O'Shea). We simply couldn't play Arsenal style of football with our current personnel - the moves would break down too often.

Offline -HH-

  • 'cocky bastard'?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,405
  • Never forget the Hillsborough victims
    • Footy fans
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2007, 01:47:44 pm »
Still, the only real undisputed talented addition has been Torres... in the "first name on the team-sheet" category.
We have a number of players with limited technique (Riise, Kuyt, Momo) and others like Voronin and Crouch who I can't imagine any of the other top clubs wanting. Babel is a work in progress but I hoped we'd get another certain starter in the summer. Malouda (for a few dollars more) could have slotted in well.

United, Chelsea and Arsenal don't have players with crap technique (bar John O'Shea). We simply couldn't play Arsenal style of football with our current personnel - the moves would break down too often.

Reina

Finnan
Carra
Agger
Aurelio

Alonso
Mascherano

Pennant
Gerrard
Babel

Torres

I reckon has more than enough technical quality to do that. As does a 4-4-2 of:

Reina

Finnan
Carra
Agger
Aurelio

Gerrard
Alonso
Mascherano
Kewell

Kuyt
Torres

Either way, our team is a lot stronger with the players we've had out in recent weeks, who I've highlighted. 5 injuries in both sides and clearly players who are amongst our most technically gifted. Arbeloa is one of our better ball playing defenders and he's been out recently too and I haven't put him in either side. Those are (opposition specifics aside for a moment) pretty much our best side we can put out. In particular the loss of Alonso, Torres and Agger through our bad run have been completely key to the pattern. Xabi in particular we need back, and fast.
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline Life

  • goes on.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,982
Re: Benitez on Milan's Sacchi and Sacchi on Benitez
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2007, 01:47:45 pm »
I'd say Babel is a big improvement on Gonzales, personally. And Lucas for me will be an improvement long term.

The main point still stands though, we're maybe a bit lacking in stnad out individuals that can change a game. I say maybe, because in recent weeks we've been missing Alonso, Torres and Agger. Alonso makes us tick (whether at his best or not) and Torres and Agger are in positions where they are far superior to the squad players to replace them (Sami might argue that but his legs won't stand up to 2 games a week these days.)

Right now, Babel isn't an improvement on Gonzales.  Work in progress sums him up, and I'm sure in time he will be an improvement, but right now he's not.  Gonzales played a couple of good games before getting crocked and got us a bit excited.
I agree with the rest, apart from the word maybe.
In terms of attacking, we're woefully worse off than Utd, Cheslea and Arsenal.  Torres apart, we have no-one that would trouble their first choice players, and conversely, Rooney, Tevez, Saha, Ronaldo, Giiggs, Nani, Drogba, Shevchenko, Cole, Malouda, Van Persie, Hleb and Rosicky would all walk into our team.  I reckon Adebayour would be challenging too.
"Why should they be used in any other way? It wouldn'a be fair for one thing. Natural ability is far too precious tae be messed about wi'."