Author Topic: The Champions League Draw Thread - 2007/2008: Toulouse in the 3rd QR (Read 36531 times)

JP-65 · « **on:** June 21, 2007, 10:19:04 am »

The draw for the first 2 qualifying rounds is on June 29th, a week tomorrow, with the final qualifying round draw on August 3rd.

The revised rankings are out, and we are ranked 3rd, with all 4 English teams now ranked in the Top 8, Chelsea finally making it into this elite group.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2007.html

Here's the link to the list of all the teams qualified for this seasons competition.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/news/kind=1/newsid=551776.html

nidgemo · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:21:45 am »

weird that the year we won it, milan got more points than us, and last season, when milan won it, we got more points...

Good to see that Newcastle are the 11th best team in europe as well, slightly better than Juventus, and well better than Roma, Bayern Munich and Sevilla.

TheHulk · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:22:02 am »

Nice to see us as the top english team.

sanj · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:28:48 am »

Quote from: nidgemo 3.11 on June 21, 2007, 10:21:45 am

weird that the year we won it, milan got more points than us, and last season, when milan won it, we got more points...

And still less than seville, sevilla...

ghost77uk · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:31:24 am »

Newcaslte 11th...Seriously?

StormyDog · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:34:04 am »

Next year Chelsea will be the highest ranking team UNLESS we win more games than them.

blurred · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:35:16 am »

Quote from: nidgemo 3.11 on June 21, 2007, 10:21:45 am

weird that the year we won it, milan got more points than us, and last season, when milan won it, we got more points...

Not really - Milan won more games in the competition in the year we won it than we did. It's not just a 'you get 100 points for finishing first' type arrangement, every game goes toward the co-efficient.

JP-65 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:58:30 am »

Here's the group and 3rd qualifying round teams, organized by ranking points

The Road End · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:08:47 am »

Anyone got the dates for the last 16 onwards please.

Did a quick search and couldn't see anything.

blurred · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:11:10 am »

Thread in the ticket forum called 'dates 2007/08' or something like that, mate - got the dates on

Emo Phillips · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:11:12 am »

Nice that we can't face fucking Chelsea again until the latter stages! Getting sick of the fuckers...

The Road End · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:17:58 am »

Quote from: blurred, please on June 21, 2007, 11:11:10 am

Thread in the ticket forum called 'dates 2007/08' or something like that, mate - got the dates on

Nice one,sorted now.

Greg · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:27:34 am »

So in the 3rd round, can we play any team? Or do we avoid anyone else who has also entered at the same stage?

Crosby Nick · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:29:45 am »

A trip to Toulouse could be quite pleasant in late August!

jackh · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:31:24 am »

Quote from: TheHulk on June 21, 2007, 10:22:02 am

Nice to see us as the top english team.

Equally nice to see United bottom of the 'top four'

Chavvie · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:34:33 am »

Quote from: jackh on June 21, 2007, 11:31:24 am

Equally nice to see United bottom of the 'top four'

United will drop like a stone if they have a crap season this year

We look nice and secure in the top 8

Alan_X · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:41:27 am »

Quote from: sanj on June 21, 2007, 10:28:48 am

And still less than seville, sevilla...

Quote from: ghost77uk on June 21, 2007, 10:31:24 am

Newcaslte 11th...Seriously?

UEFA don't make any differential between CL and UEFA Cup games - coefficient points are awarded for games won and drawn. The UEFA Cup usually has more games per season and because of the structure of the competition anyone getting to the latter stages will be bound to have a few wins under their belt. Seville have won it twice in a row and Newcastle have had a few good runs in the UEFA Cup - 04, 05 and last season.

As someone pointed out, when the 02/03 scores are dropped we'll be 15 points worse off than Chelsea so we'll need to do well this year to stay top of the English rankings. On the positive side, if United have another poor year they could drop out of the top eight ranked clubs and go into pot two!

Red-juvenated · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:41:42 am »

Quote from: Emo Phillips on June 21, 2007, 11:11:12 am

Nice that we can't face fucking Chelsea again until the latter stages! Getting sick of the fuckers...

Another semi, perhaps?

Alan_X · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:47:02 am »

Quote from: Greg on June 21, 2007, 11:27:34 am

So in the 3rd round, can we play any team? Or do we avoid anyone else who has also entered at the same stage?

We will be the top seed in the 3rd round and won't be able to meet Arsenal. We couldn't be drawn against anyone seeded higher than teams like Sparta Prague, Fenerbache and AEK...

possible opponents subject to 1st and 2nd round results:

Unseeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- -------------
Sparta Praha Cze 37.851
Fenerbahçe Tur 36.791
AEK Athens Gre 36.415
Dinamo Bucuresti Rom 34.255
Slavia Praha ** Cze 32.851
Rosenborg BK ** Nor 31.509
Spartak Moscow Rus 27.920
Red Star Belgrade ** Srb 19.256
FC København ** Den 19.129
Toulouse FC Fra 17.706
Dinamo Zagreb * Cro 17.533
Racing Genk ** Bel 15.594
DVSC Debrecen ** Hun 11.675
FC Zürich Sui 9.869
FC Salzburg ** Aut 9.104
APOEL Nicosia * Cyp 6.492

AdamBrunt · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:51:56 am »

The funny thing is ... Mourinho reckons Chelsea have a better chance of winning it this season coming simply because they are in the Top 8 seeds !!!! And the reason Chelsea haven't won it in the past is because they weren't Top 8.

Didn't stop Liverpool in 2005 (when we weren't Top 8 IIRC).

Alan_X · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:00:45 pm »

Quote from: AdamBrunt on June 21, 2007, 11:51:56 am

The funny thing is ... Mourinho reckons Chelsea have a better chance of winning it this season coming simply because they are in the Top 8 seeds !!!! And the reason Chelsea haven't won it in the past is because they weren't Top 8.

Didn't stop Liverpool in 2005 (when we weren't Top 8 IIRC).

I was going to say we were in the top 8 in 2005 but you're right, we were 10th... Chelsea were 20th, Arsenal were 7th and United were 4th.

This how things stand at the start of this season before any games are played:

StormyDog · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:10:24 pm »

Quote from: AdamBrunt on June 21, 2007, 11:51:56 am

The funny thing is ... Mourinho reckons Chelsea have a better chance of winning it this season coming simply because they are in the Top 8 seeds !!!! And the reason Chelsea haven't won it in the past is because they weren't Top 8.

Didn't stop Liverpool in 2005 (when we weren't Top 8 IIRC).

No credibility there I'm afraid.
The only year that they (Chelsea) failed to win their group in the last 4 years was against us (I think). So even against so-called superior opposition they still win their group.

Fitzy. · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:11:21 pm »

That table emphasises our Eurpeam form compared to our league form. It actually does the same for ManU as well.

edeyj · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:13:18 pm »

Given that this is a UEFA list, and we all know how good an organisation they are...I am surprised that the Bluenoses don't top the rankings!

Alan_X · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:40:22 pm »

Quote from: edeyj on June 21, 2007, 12:13:18 pm

Given that this is a UEFA list, and we all know how good an organisation they are...I am surprised that the Bluenoses don't top the rankings!

please read

and this

JP-65 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 21, 2007, 08:21:26 pm »

Alan, I had to go out and play a round of golf, so you beat me to it!

Here are the forced rankings for the 1st and 2nd round qualifiers.......Alan's unseeded team list is complete, unless there is an upset in the first 2 rounds.

JP-65 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2007, 08:30:13 pm »

And here's what the 4 'pots' will look like for the group stage draw, if there are no upsets in the qualifiers

Le Terrible · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2007, 09:29:37 pm »

We are due a difficult Champions League draw.

Most of the unseeded teams noted above are very beatable. However, I don't fancy running into the Turks, Russians or former Yugoslavs.

Fenerbahçe
Spartak Moscow
Red Star Belgrade
Dinamo Zagreb

Billy The Kid · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2007, 12:21:05 am »

Quote from: ghost77uk on June 21, 2007, 10:31:24 am

Newcaslte 11th...Seriously?

I found that one very suprising. Theres at least 8 teams ranked below them that would twat them.

Gilly La · « **Reply #29 on:** June 22, 2007, 01:09:04 am »

Quote from: Crosby Nick on June 21, 2007, 11:29:45 am

A trip to Toulouse could be quite pleasant in late August!

No it couldn't, France for an away game is boring as fuck!!!

Alan_X · « **Reply #30 on:** June 22, 2007, 09:36:11 am »

Quote from: Rhi on June 21, 2007, 08:29:49 pm

I was wondering where Donetsk were in Alan's list. That would be the one tie above all others that I'd love. I guess another pre-season trip to Ukraine would be a bit much for people who went last year though.

Shaktar would be in the seeded teams in the 3rd round so we couldn't play them. They've done quite well in Europe...

eLVIScOSTELLO · « **Reply #31 on:** June 22, 2007, 10:09:00 am »

Nice to see the Mancs and Chelsea quibbling over the minor placings

fudge · « **Reply #32 on:** June 22, 2007, 10:40:00 am »

Quote from: Crosby Nick on June 21, 2007, 11:29:45 am

A trip to Toulouse could be quite pleasant in late August!

yeah that'd be spot on

Gilly La · « **Reply #33 on:** June 22, 2007, 12:04:26 pm »

I want some mad outpost of Eastern Europe in the Qualifiers, somewhere like Zagreb.

Comic Book Guy · « **Reply #34 on:** June 22, 2007, 12:10:40 pm »

Quote from: nidgemo 3.11 on June 21, 2007, 10:21:45 am

Good to see that Newcastle are the 11th best team in europe as well

Even though it's nice to see us in 3rd, these are almost as farsical as the FIFA International Rankings

Alan_X · « **Reply #35 on:** June 22, 2007, 12:49:30 pm »

Quote from: treblex2 on June 22, 2007, 12:10:40 pm

Even though it's nice to see us in 3rd, these are almost as farsical as the FIFA International Rankings

No they aren't. You might as well say the English League tables are farcical. They show the points gained from games won and drawn in European competitions. Teams that go further win more games and get more points.

Newcastle reached the UEFA Cup quarter-finals last year, quarter-finals 04-05 and the semi-finals in 03-04. In 02-03 they qualified for the Champions League and came second in their group behind Juve. They failed to get out of the second group stage but put in a creditable performance beating Leverkusen home and away and drawing away at Inter. Barca were the group winners. We couldn't get out of the first group stage against Valencia, Basel and Spartak Moscow.

Laugh all you want. It just makes you look a little sad.

jonesyb · « **Reply #36 on:** June 22, 2007, 01:20:27 pm »

ooooooh cant wait for it.Its like waiting for the last lottery numbers to come and you already have 3.

Will have to watch in a bar in the Canaries and plan the seasons trips from there.Would like a Scandanavian trip, anyone fancy a midweek trip to Finland?

StormyDog · « **Reply #37 on:** June 22, 2007, 01:31:48 pm »

To be fair the UEFA Cup should have its points reduced due to the quality of opponent and lower status of the competition.

E.G.

CL 3pts. win, 1 pt draw.
UEFA Cup 2pts. win, 0 pts. draw.

Then teams like Newcastle who always get knocked out when the going gets tuff wouldn't take seedings from teams like Celtic, who play much more difficult games.

Comic Book Guy · « **Reply #38 on:** June 22, 2007, 02:00:45 pm »

Quote from: Alan_F on June 22, 2007, 12:49:30 pm

No they aren't. You might as well say the English League tables are farcical. They show the points gained from games won and drawn in European competitions. Teams that go further win more games and get more points.

Newcastle reached the UEFA Cup quarter-finals last year, quarter-finals 04-05 and the semi-finals in 03-04. In 02-03 they qualified for the Champions League and came second in their group behind Juve. They failed to get out of the second group stage but put in a creditable performance beating Leverkusen home and away and drawing away at Inter. Barca were the group winners. We couldn't get out of the first group stage against Valencia, Basel and Spartak Moscow.

Didn't one of their UEFA Cup runs come about as they couldn't navigate themselves past a distinctly average Red Star Belgrade team in the C/L Qualifier ?

They haven't even played in the C/L in about 4 years.

They have amassed their points getting wins over vastly inferior teams to the teams placed around them.

As somebody said earlier, when the going get tough, Newcastle go out.

To say they are on slighty worse than Lyon and are better than Bayern Munich, Porto, Roma, Juve or Sevilla is ridiculous.

Alan_X · « **Reply #39 on:** June 23, 2007, 11:21:59 pm »

Quote from: treblex2 on June 22, 2007, 02:00:45 pm

Didn't one of their UEFA Cup runs come about as they couldn't navigate themselves past a distinctly average Red Star Belgrade team in the C/L Qualifier ?

They haven't even played in the C/L in about 4 years.

They have amassed their points getting wins over vastly inferior teams to the teams placed around them.

As somebody said earlier, when the going get tough, Newcastle go out.

To say they are on slighty worse than Lyon and are better than Bayern Munich, Porto, Roma, Juve or Sevilla is ridiculous.

How do you deal with United? They have faced shit opposition for the last few seasons and have still managed to drop down the rankings. maybe they should get lower points for having an easy draw

I know what you're saying but all you can do is beat who's in front of you. To get 20 + coefficient points in either competition you need to get to the quarters or semis and to be in the top 20 teams you probably need to have done that for at least 3 seasons out of 5.

If, and it's fucking great big if, they consistently start qualifying for the CL then they will find their level pretty quickly.