Topic: Torres and Gerrard to Fire Liverpool to League Glory?

[bellyred]

to many ifs and buts at this stage of the transfer market, Crouch & Riise have gone which pays for Barry's transfer, Then the reports of wanting so many players lol Milner, Silva, Villa, Keane. I just wonder if Rafa is putting up a smoke screen to try and hide who he is really gonna sign like he did with Torres, All talk then was about Villa or Etto in the papers but he brought in Torres so IMO Rafa will possibly try and pull off a move for Silva and/or Villa by the end of the transfer window.
Let's just sit tight and wait and see because really you cannot sell Crouch and rely on Voronin or Kuyt to score enough goals for a title push in place of an unfit or injured Torres (FACT).

[Aldridge 8]

Good a player David Villa is i do think that if he goes for him it could be the wrong move , as when torres has played with villa he hasnt been as prolific as he is when torres plays as the centre forward and not the second striker as he does for spain .

[lincolnred-dad]

Good a player David Villa is i do think that if he goes for him it could be the wrong move , as when torres has played with villa he hasnt been as prolific as he is when torres plays as the centre forward and not the second striker as he does for spain .

problem with that argument is that villa ended up top scorer!
if torres scores less but sets up a player to help them be top scorer then how's that bad business?

[duvduv]

The problem with an argument which looks at a small sample is you can make it say wha you want to say. I take your point that it seemed to be a successful formation but you could equally say that our best result was against Derby, which was

Reina
Finnan  Agger   Hypia  Arbeloa
Pennant   Alonso   Masch   Babel
Kuyt  Torres


QED our best team/formation doesn't include Gerrard or Carragher (weren't even on the bench)


Another way of looking at it is that if you add the end league position
3 - 2       Middlesbrough   13
 3 - 1      Bolton                16
 4 - 0      West Ham          10
 3 - 0      Newcastle          12
 2 - 1      Reading             18
 0 - 3      Man Utd              ?
 1 - 0      Everton              5
 3 - 1      Blackburn           7
 1 - 0      Man City             9
 2 - 0      Tottenham         11

I.e. we beat teams who finished lower than us in the table.

[Aldridge 8]

problem with that argument is that villa ended up top scorer!
if torres scores less but sets up a player to help them be top scorer then how's that bad business?

but villa wont be top scorer because for Valencia he isn't that prolific , and i think him signing would stifle torres ability like it does for Spain , OK villa is a decent player but i would rather see torres stay as the centre forward and buy a top class foil to play off him IE in the mould of a dalglish,bergkamp,litmanen, or a wayne rooney type player , not a david villa type player .

[nutmeg94]

Benitez has now come out in the interview about David villa quoting Steven Gerrard is a second striker , well if that's the case i think we can forget about any sort of challenge for the league because Steven Gerrard is NOT a second striker , yes he can play there but it shouldn't even be an issue , in the big games last season he got found out , yes against the lesser teams he was brilliant with torres , but surely a proper foil for torres would be a much better option instead of  playing Gerrard there instead of Gerrard being in midfield centre or right , we need a player to play with Torres in the mould of dalglish,litmanen,bergkamp,dare i say it rooney , there the types of player that should be considered not gerrard.

Can't help but think this is true.

I'd like to see Stevie playing on the right next season, with a genuine number 10 behind Torres.

[Mimi]

Can't help but think this is true.

I'd like to see Stevie playing on the right next season, with a genuine number 10 behind Torres.

Assuming we find someone within our price range, we will still have to wait for this number 10 to adapt to the League. Why mess with a partnership that plays to each others strengths and is effective in the League. The problem with us is that we don't have variation outside this partnership; for example, effective support from the wide players. And with Torres, it is best not to overcomplicate- and Gerrard does things very simply and quickly which suits Fernando's game.

[nutmeg94]

Assuming we find someone within our price range, we will still have to wait for this number 10 to adapt to the League.

I think it'd be worth the wait if we got our man (whoever that may be)

Why mess with a partnership that plays to each others strengths and is effective in the League. The problem with us is that we don't have variation outside this partnership; for example, effective support from the wide players.

And playing Stevie out wide would further worsen the contribution from our wide players?

We'd get a guaranteed 10-15 goals a season from our right midfielder, which would be brilliant.

[SteveZissou]

I think we've done very well this season considering we've been without this partnership for most of the season.  Its so frustrating that with Torres back and coming close to full fitness we have Stevie injured.  How many games this season have we had Stevie playing behind Torres (from the start)?  I think there's just a few, and in most of these Torres wasn't 100 percent fit yet. 

So, with our hard work all over the pitch we've done well to be up there and hopefully we will peak at the vital stage.

[Billy The Kid]

This whole purchasing Villa and second striker scenario raises so many questions for me.

We will never sign Villa, spare yourself the mental  exhaustion

[JoeH]

We will never sign Villa, spare yourself the mental  exhaustion

There were some that said that we wouldnt buy Torres either.

[mjgill85]

Feel free to point out that I'm wrong, but by my reckoning the Torres-Gerrard striking duo (ie. not with Gerrard playing deep in the midfield 2) have only started 3 league games for us this season: Man City (a), Wigan (a), Chelsea (h).

Two wins and a draw, although it may be worth mentioning that:

Against City we were 2-1 down when Keane came on for Mascherano and the formation changed (Gerrard moving deeper)
At Wigan we were 1-0 up when Torres came off

[the_red_pill]

cool.....but?


Jaws 2 was shit ,although it had the same system

Captain Tsubasa!!! Long time, la.

[the_red_pill]

Lad don't you realise.... The bounce is so last year.
LET'S WOBBLE!

Shit! Never even got to do the CARTWHEEL.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

i think teams have worked out if you mark gerarrd then its not as good.

[SteveZissou]

Feel free to point out that I'm wrong, but by my reckoning the Torres-Gerrard striking duo (ie. not with Gerrard playing deep in the midfield 2) have only started 3 league games for us this season: Man City (a), Wigan (a), Chelsea (h).

Two wins and a draw, although it may be worth mentioning that:

Against City we were 2-1 down when Keane came on for Mascherano and the formation changed (Gerrard moving deeper)
At Wigan we were 1-0 up when Torres came off

Well, you're the only one to work it out so far... 3 games is extremely less... which underlines my point even if its one or two more...

[SteveZissou]

i think teams have worked out if you mark gerarrd then its not as good.

Don't think so.  If you mark Stevie then Torres has more space.... if you mark Torres then Stevie has more space... if you mark the two of them then Kuyt or Riera will pop up into dangerous positions - that's at least the plan - but there's only been 3 games or so this season so unfortunately we only have last season to go by as a proper yardstick.

[10 years from Sami]

Didn't Bolton go man for man on Gerrard at the Reebok? Muabma I think. Trying to mark him out the game. Anyway, after 20 minutes Gerrard had got rid of him 3 or 4 times, and a couple of other players were getting much more space. After 25 minutes Megson scrapped it.

[SteveZissou]

Didn't Bolton go man for man on Gerrard at the Reebok? Muabma I think. Trying to mark him out the game. Anyway, after 20 minutes Gerrard had got rid of him 3 or 4 times, and a couple of other players were getting much more space. After 25 minutes Megson scrapped it.

Yes, I think that's one of the examples for this season...

[shelovesyou]

Beg to differ, big shark eating people.

Jaws 2 is clearly the best of the lot , come on . . . .

[shelovesyou]

The problem with an argument which looks at a small sample is you can make it say wha you want to say. I take your point that it seemed to be a successful formation but you could equally say that our best result was against Derby, which was

Reina
Finnan  Agger   Hypia  Arbeloa
Pennant   Alonso   Masch   Babel
Kuyt  Torres


QED our best team/formation doesn't include Gerrard or Carragher (weren't even on the bench)


Another way of looking at it is that if you add the end league position
3 - 2       Middlesbrough   13
 3 - 1      Bolton                16
 4 - 0      West Ham          10
 3 - 0      Newcastle          12
 2 - 1      Reading             18
 0 - 3      Man Utd              ?
 1 - 0      Everton              5
 3 - 1      Blackburn           7
 1 - 0      Man City             9
 2 - 0      Tottenham         11

I.e. we beat teams who finished lower than us in the table.

am i missing something here ? ?
when did we play Derby ? ?
Have I been supporting the wrong team ? ?

............ Rafa ?

[10 years from Sami]

am i missing something here ? ?
when did we play Derby ? ?
Have I been supporting the wrong team ? ?

............ Rafa ?

last season?

Liverpol 6-0 Derby

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Didn't Bolton go man for man on Gerrard at the Reebok? Muabma I think. Trying to mark him out the game. Anyway, after 20 minutes Gerrard had got rid of him 3 or 4 times, and a couple of other players were getting much more space. After 25 minutes Megson scrapped it.

that wasnt what struck me about the first part of that game.
they tried to copy a failed formula used by everton a few weks prior.


ie.5 man midfield and one up front but without pressuring alonso.

this was their undoing as xabi had all the space and time to ping passes to the wings where the wide men had held their positions very well.
we were all over them because of that

the major downside of the formation is what hapened in the wigan game.
rafa was having a dig at those 2rather than the rest of the team those 2 were a bit "crazy" that night