Author Topic: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!  (Read 3746 times)

Offline GreatEx

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Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« on: October 14, 2023, 01:10:46 am »
Couldn't find an Australian thread, but there's a New Zealand one so I think I can justify this indulgence!

Those who listen to the Rest is Politics might have heard a bit about the indigenous Voice to Parliament referendum that's happening in Australia today. It's a single question asking us if we support recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders as the original inhabitants via a Voice to parliament. The idea of a Voice was proposed by First Nations people in a document known as the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which was the culmination of a decade's worth of consultation with indigenous groups across the country, the largest consensus building exercise in First Nations history, at least that we know of post colonisation. Currently First Nations people are not specifically recognised in the constitution, a gesture which around 90% of Australians would be on board with, but the decision was made to combine that question with the Voice proposal as the latter was seen as meaningful, material change towards bridging the shocking gap between indigenous and other Australians in metrics like life expectancy, income, education and incarceration.

The Voice proposal enjoyed strong majority support from its conception in 2017 until early this year (something like 59% overall and >80% among FNP). The previous Liberal National Party government (Tories) refused to call a referendum on the subject, with its relatively progressive erstwhile prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, falsely claiming it would be a third chamber of parliament equal in status to the house of representatives and senate, even though it would be an advisory body explicitly excluded from any legislative authority. When the Labor (Labour) party regained power late last year, it included a voice referendum as one of the top priorities in its manifesto, and took a clear position of Yes.

The Liberals didn't immediately put their weight behind the No campaign, having been pummelled at the election and knowing that the numbers were behind Yes. But their new leader, Peter Dutton, an ex-cop from Queensland, the most right wing state in the country, set about undermining it by planting seeds of doubt. The early tactic was to claim a deliberate withholding of detail, knowing full well that the constitution is a set of broad brush principles, and that detail comes from legislation. Nonetheless, this started to play well among more cautious conservative types. Over time the seeds of alarm were planted. Suddenly the Voice was not a result of FNP consensus building, it was a ploy by the Labor party to both destroy parliamentary democracy, to force the white man into subservience, but bizarrely also was a meaningless load of virtue signalling woke crap that FNP don't even want and is in fact another example of the whitefella forcing his vision upon the bkackfella. Whatever combination works for each individual, the effect was profound, with support for the Voice plummeting. This emboldened Dutton to mandate a No platform to the Liberals, forcing moderate representatives out of cabinet or out of the party altogether. The numbers continued to decline, with latest polls indicating 36% Yes and 57% No. The prime minister already appears to be looking at the aftermath.

So, I will trudge to the polls today, vote Yes, and just hope the end result is less humiliating than I'm expecting. The one shining light in all this is that the Liberal party has not profited from their opportunism. They have dealt a blow to Labor, but indications are that the electorate are not impressed by this further lurch to the right, a lurch which brought them undone as recent elections have been marked by pro-business but socially progressive "teal" independents wiping them out from their wealthy suburban strongholds. They're becoming more and more a party of rural cranks, and that won't work in a heavily urbanised country where the working classes are not struggling (and thus seduced by resentment politics) to the same degree as other western democracies.

Offline capt k

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2023, 03:06:15 am »
if anyone could explain clearly, what we are voting yes for  then maybe there would be a bit more support..but it looks /smells like a money grab.
What confuses me is.why are so many national companies,WesFarmers{Bunnings etc}Woolies,Coles, Uniting {the church corporation, who my wife works for and they tried to force every company car to have a "yes" sticker on the back of them}Mining Giants BHP, Gena Reinhardts group throwing MILLIONS OF DOLLARS behind it?..i smell a rat.

If the indigenous community are not unanimous in the choice, how the hell are the rest of us supposed to form an opinion?
heres some food for thought{and i know there will be a counter argument from the YES side}  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuLiR9M-IUY
JFT 96

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2023, 03:25:48 am »
and an interesting take from the comments section of the YT link i posted above.

"NO NO because there are already 3,278 Aboriginal corporations • 243 Native title bodies • 48 Land councils • 35 Regional councils • 122+ Aboriginal agencies • 3 Advisory bodies • 145 Health Organisations • 11 Indigenous Federal MPs • 12 Culturally important Indigenous days • Taxpayers give $30B annually for 984,000 people (3.8% of the population) • Expenditure per person in 2012-13 was $43,449 on Indigenous Australian compare to $20,900 on other Australians a ratio of 2.08 to 1 and increase from 1.95 in 2009. Senator Price says Australian taxpayers spend at least $100 million a day on direct support for Indigenous Australians. Every year $39.5 billion of direct government expenditure every single year. The figures are based on the 2017 Indigenous Expenditure Report produced by the Productivity Commission. Issues of racial and social injustices are hardly ousted by elevating and heightening race (cultural identification, credentials). Especially on a political level, but also within the wider community. The Voice to Parliament is all about adding a new “Elite Canberra-based bureaucracy” in the constitution rather than reconciliation or recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Australia has over 270 cultures, let’s embrace them all, but most importantly let’s embrace the Australians who make up our country first. NO"
JFT 96

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2023, 04:54:31 am »
Corporations always want to be on the side of positive progressive change. It was the same with same sex marriage. Didn't mean that plebiscite wasn't about exactly what it said on the tin, doesn't mean SSM is a front for anything more sinister. Keep in mind the corporations jumped on board when the Voice was polling nearly 60% Yes. It was supposed to be a slam dunk. Would mining companies be as keen to get involved at 36-37%? Given past clashes between FNP and mining companies wanting to blow up their cultural sites, possibly not!

I agree that the Yes camp has done a poor job communicating the benefits of a Voice, but it is a fairly simple concept: an advisory body that can make representations directly to parliament and the executive government. Similar to ATSIC and previous advisory bodies, but the constitutional protection means that governments are committed to improving it through legislation rather than disbanding when things aren't going well, as governments of both stripes have done in the past. The Yes camp has been light on detail to avoid the referendum being a battle of specific models like the republic one ended up. That is understandable, but they should have relented when the worm had clearly turned. The Yes website has some founding principles that could have countered some of the No claims: for example, a mate of mine earnestly believed the Voice members would be appointed by the prime minister of the day, but the principles declare they would be elected by local communities and serve g fixed terms. Why is this not being shouted from the rooftops? Instead all the oxygen is going to the likes of Price calling it the Canberra Voice or the Albanese Voice.

Bad communication and bad politics have done a huge disservice to those who strived for years to build consensus among FNP. Having said that, I can't say for sure that the Voice would have solved all the problems faced by FNP, and I would have had more confidence if they'd addressed the inefficiencies of existing agencies or the corruption of land councils as some of the areas they'd provide advice on. So I can respect people who vote No because they don't think it'd serve its intended purpose. But I don't respect the many arguments from the No camp based on innuendo and "what do they REALLY want?" insinuation.

Offline Ultimate Bromance

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2023, 09:30:32 am »
About an hour after voting closed, some networks already comfortable announcing a resounding no, pretty grim.
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2023, 09:40:51 am »
Koalas!

Bruce!
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2023, 10:12:59 am »
44.1% Yes, 55.9% No after 36% of the vote. Not as bad as I expected, but WA hasn't started counting yet and they'll be close to Queensland, who are the most negative at 35:65.

Still much closer than the SSM vote, so we're not that bad, right? Right? Hello?

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2023, 10:59:26 am »
Is that confirmation that most Aussies are racist?  Or is that way too simplistic?

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2023, 11:01:21 am »
Any breakdown of voting demographics? Is it a case of older voters backing No? And maybe in another generations time it will get over the line? If 5% of the voters swung the other way it would be close to a dead heat, that really isn’t far off.

I lived in Oz for just under 5 years and travelled inland to a lot of the smaller towns. Outside of the big cities and the NT you would rarely come across anyone of an indigenous appearance (hope I’ve worded this correctly). Places have been whitewashed so much that I doubt many people in these places bear witness to an indigenous perspective or experience, and therefore can’t clearly see why such a constitutional change would be necessary.

I wonder how many of the No’s are never no’s or are more of them “just not yet” or “can’t really see the point, why change anything if it won’t benefit me?”.
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2023, 11:13:41 am »
Is that confirmation that most Aussies are racist?  Or is that way too simplistic?

From the programmes I've seen, most of their politicians make Hitler look like a tree-hugging hippy
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2023, 11:19:09 am »
Is that confirmation that most Aussies are racist?  Or is that way too simplistic?

Did we need that confirming?

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2023, 11:24:23 am »
Any breakdown of voting demographics? Is it a case of older voters backing No? And maybe in another generations time it will get over the line? If 5% of the voters swung the other way it would be close to a dead heat, that really isn’t far off.

Live tracker here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-14/live-updates-voice-to-parliament-referendum-latest-news/102969568?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=other

National Yes vote fallen to 41.7% since my last post, think it'll end up in the 30s. It's a humiliation. Highest Yes vote in Victoria, but all states will end up with a No. Inner cities most in favour, regional Australia incredibly hostile, it's a 4-to-1No vote in many regional seats.

There is no chance this question will be put to referendum again for at least 50 years. It's been 25 years since we were last given a chance to piss off the inbred royals, for crying out loud.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2023, 11:53:15 am »
Here's the opening words from Senator Jacinta Price, de facto leader of the No campaign, in response to the result:

Quote
"The Australian people have overwhelmingly voted saying No to the referendum," she says.

"They have said No to division within our constitution along the lines of race. They have said No to the Yes lighting, bullying, to the manipulation.

"They have said No to grievance and the push from activists to suggest that we are a racist country when we areabsolutely not a racist country."

Way to win with magnanimity and seek to heal divisions in the country. And there have been editorials in major newspapers calling for her to be the next prime minister!

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2023, 03:11:30 pm »
Australia is a conservative country at heart, no surprises with this vote.

Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2023, 03:19:27 pm »
Is that confirmation that most Aussies are racist?  Or is that way too simplistic?
I'm not sure the UK is in a position to call anyone racists after the Brexit referendum and all the Stop the boats shite
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2023, 03:29:12 pm »
I'm not sure the UK is in a position to call anyone racists after the Brexit referendum and all the Stop the boats shite

Are you speaking for everyone in the UK? 

We currently have a racist government, but I don't think they represent the whole country (certainly not me).  And of course, people voted for Brexit for many reasons (it was complex), plus it was over 7 years ago.

Aus have just had a vote now on whether to give indigenous people a voice, and it's a pretty grim result.

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2023, 03:35:46 pm »
Quote
Hannah McGlade, a lawyer and member of the UN permanent forum on Indigenous issues, said it was a difficult result for her.

“It’s very sad and it’s grieving,” she said. “The majority of Australian people could not see the sense in finally recognising Aboriginal people.

“This is a truth-telling moment for Australia and a wake up call that we need to really do so much better and have those courageous conversations about racism and Indigenous rights.”

McGlade said the result was a damning result for Australia’s international reputation but said it could be a moment of moving forward and continuing the fight to close the gap in incarceration rates, child removals, poverty and other social determinants.

“We’ll keep fighting for our people’s human rights and for dignity, for equality, and practical reforms. Our children deserve a life and a future,” the Noongar woman told Guardian Australia.

Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2023, 03:58:18 pm »
Are you speaking for everyone in the UK? 

We currently have a racist government, but I don't think they represent the whole country (certainly not me).  And of course, people voted for Brexit for many reasons (it was complex), plus it was over 7 years ago.

Aus have just had a vote now on whether to give indigenous people a voice, and it's a pretty grim result.
we had a vote to leave the EU, there's racist people in Australia, there's racists in the UK but it doesn't mean that the whole country is
« Last Edit: October 14, 2023, 03:59:51 pm by Wabaloolah »
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2023, 04:07:39 pm »
What do the non indigenous people fear about giving a voice to those who preceded them?

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2023, 04:22:12 pm »
What do the non indigenous people fear about giving a voice to those who preceded them?

Loss of wealth, land, power..........??

Recognition that they've been more fortunate than indigenous people and that their ancestors, were potential bastards....??

There was lots of disinformation and propaganda, not surprisingly.

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2023, 05:48:53 pm »
Loss of wealth, land, power..........??

Recognition that they've been more fortunate than indigenous people and that their ancestors, were potential bastards....??

There was lots of disinformation and propaganda, not surprisingly.

Insecure little gimps. 

As if one voice is going to undo a few centuries of oppression!!

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2023, 06:43:35 pm »
What do the non indigenous people fear about giving a voice to those who preceded them?

From what I gather, at least one of the arguments is better definition of what they should be voting Yes to. See capt k above.
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2023, 06:51:41 pm »
From what I gather, at least one of the arguments is better definition of what they should be voting Yes to. See capt k above.
we all know what happens when you have a poorly worded referendum
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2023, 07:05:55 pm »
From what I gather, at least one of the arguments is better definition of what they should be voting Yes to. See capt k above.

They deliberately made it vague, due to the defeat in 1999.  But the vagueness was seized upon, by the No camp.  They could come up with all kinds of things, about what it meant.

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2023, 07:34:58 pm »
From what I gather, at least one of the arguments is better definition of what they should be voting Yes to. See capt k above.

That doesn't make sense though. 

Why does not having a defined reason for giving them a voice make them fearful of giving them a voice?

Wtf did they think would happen?  That one little tiny voice speaking up for the indigenous population would suddenly mean they'd dictate policy, the constitution or their way of life.

How fucking pathetic!!

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2023, 07:46:09 pm »
That doesn't make sense though. 

Why does not having a defined reason for giving them a voice make them fearful of giving them a voice?

Wtf did they think would happen?  That one little tiny voice speaking up for the indigenous population would suddenly mean they'd dictate policy, the constitution or their way of life.

How fucking pathetic!!

That's democracy for yer.
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2023, 09:26:53 pm »
That doesn't make sense though. 

Why does not having a defined reason for giving them a voice make them fearful of giving them a voice?

Wtf did they think would happen?  That one little tiny voice speaking up for the indigenous population would suddenly mean they'd dictate policy, the constitution or their way of life.

How fucking pathetic!!
how very sanctimious of you.
If you could be arsed reading up a bit more , its OBVIOUS, living over here, that a fair amount of the indigenous population are against it.. so why would the rest of the country vote yes, when they wont even tell us what we are voting for,  and dont bother with "a Voice".. a voice already exists for every australian in one form or another.
JFT 96

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2023, 09:37:16 pm »
how very sanctimious of you.
If you could be arsed reading up a bit more , its OBVIOUS, living over here, that a fair amount of the indigenous population are against it.. so why would the rest of the country vote yes, when they wont even tell us what we are voting for,  and dont bother with "a Voice".. a voice already exists for every australian in one form or another.

Define ‘fair amount’
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2023, 10:02:36 pm »
how very sanctimious of you.
If you could be arsed reading up a bit more , its OBVIOUS, living over here, that a fair amount of the indigenous population are against it.. so why would the rest of the country vote yes, when they wont even tell us what we are voting for,  and dont bother with "a Voice".. a voice already exists for every australian in one form or another.

Oh I'm sorry did my points scare you like it seems all the fearful Ozzy's are scared of the natives making decisions.

Clearly the tactic of not telling you what you were voting for scared you all so much you didn't bother trying to make a difference.

Fucking human being, the dummest creatures ever to walk the earth!!

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2023, 10:48:19 pm »
Also, google exists

https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/files/pamphlet/your-official-yes-no-referendum-pamphlet.pdf

I had a copy of that on my desk. Asked most of my staff had they read it when they said they'd pre-voted. All said no. And those that voted no were clear in stating that if 'you don't know vote no' and made zero effort to find out more.

Anyone who says this was about money/reparations/compensation has been listening to the Murdoch owned media.

Next time our first nations people will get mentioned in the MSM will be when one of their young people die in police custody.
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2023, 11:10:03 pm »
I had a copy of that on my desk. Asked most of my staff had they read it when they said they'd pre-voted. All said no. And those that voted no were clear in stating that if 'you don't know vote no' and made zero effort to find out more.

Anyone who says this was about money/reparations/compensation has been listening to the Murdoch owned media.

Next time our first nations people will get mentioned in the MSM will be when one of their young people die in police custody.

Referendums eh?
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2023, 02:15:13 am »
It's easy to get offended by foreigners dipping their oar into one's national affairs, especially when they're critical of your own judgement, but I think it can be illuminating sometimes, particularly when it comes to referendums, where we are generally asked simple questions of broad principle. The thing is, when you're in the thick of it, it's easy to be overwhelmed with information, misinformation and/or disinformation. Note that "truth in advertising" laws in this country do not extend to politics - and it must be noted that opposition to such an extension is bipartisan! - so both sides of this debate were free to disseminate as much bullshit as they liked. So we were constantly bombarded with talk of hidden agendas, secret corporate cabals, fake indigeneity, etc. The official referendum guide linked earlier on this page contained threats from the No camp that the Voice could get its hands on the keys to the federal reserve (to steal your superannuation) or the levers of foreign policy (to side with China and declare war on America). Even as one whose
deception radar is constantly buzzing, it's easy to fall into the trap of appeasement and "understanding there are reasons to doubt the Voice". Then you get the more simplified outsider perspective that takes the proposed amendment at face value. And they're right!  The proposal contains clear safeguards against such absurdist doomsday scenarios, but because the constitution is a statement of broad principle not detailed design, the No camp will always be at a huge advantage.

This now makes it 37 of 45 referendums to fail at the federal level, including the last 9 in a row. The last successful one was in 1977, when we passed a trio of amendments. The first 2 referendums in federal history, back in 1906, were also successful. So aside from those two batches, we've had 3 successful referendums out of 40 over the past 117 years. And those that pass are generally either self evident questions of human rights (should aborigines be counted as people? Should people in the Australian Capital Territory and Northern Territory be able to vote in national referendums?) or unsexy procedural matters. It's also not been noted by many that at our last referendum in 1999 - the unsuccessful republic vote - there was a second proposal that also failed: a preamble to the constitution recognising Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders as the original custodians of the land. The latter is worth keeping in mind, especially as the Labor government faces a backlash for not proposing recognition and the Voice as two separate questions. The preamble question scored only 39.3% Yes in 1999, remarkably close to the 39.7% Yes vote this weekend. There's every chance that the No camp would have defeated both questions, and that would be far more damaging to indigenous people than a result that can be blamed on a poorly marketed advisory council.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2023, 02:18:43 am by GreatEx »

Offline Red Ol

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2023, 08:32:54 am »
Interesting article by Aaron Fa’Aoso who is a Torres Strait Islander actor and producer.

‘The referendum did not divide this country: it exposed it. Now the racism and ignorance must be urgently addressed.’

‘It is disheartening that lies, misinformation, and disinformation of the voice to parliament by the no campaign have overshadowed that truth. And worse, that First Nations peoples became collateral damage in a referendum that became an unnecessary game of political brinkmanship.’

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/15/the-referendum-did-not-divide-this-country-it-exposed-it-now-the-racism-and-ignorance-must-be-urgently-addressed?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2023, 11:37:27 am »
Indigenous communities overwhelmingly voted yes to Australia’s voice to parliament

Polling catchments where Indigenous Australians form more than 50% of the population voted on average 63% in favour of the voice


Quote
Regions with a high proportion of Indigenous Australians overwhelmingly voted yes in the referendum – including the community where prominent no campaigner Jacinta Nampijinpa Price’s family is from.

The yes vote in polling catchments where Indigenous Australians formed more than 50% of the population was, on average, 63% in favour of enshrining an Indigenous voice to parliament, according to political analyst Simon Jackman, who estimated the proportion of Indigenous Australians at each polling area based on data from the 2022 election.

But the referendum was defeated under the weight of much of the rest of the country voting no. Nationally, only 39.6% of the population voted in favour, while 60.4% ruled it out.

“This was so important for Indigenous people,” said Yanyuwa woman and Labor senator for the Northern Territory, Malarndirri McCarthy, on the ABC on Saturday night, as the reality of the defeat sunk in.

“I want to emphasise the point of that to all Australians, that this was always going to be about the 3% of the population who are asking for an advisory body to the constitution.”

In the Northern Territory seat of Lingiari, which takes in Alice Springs and where 40% of the population is Indigenous, 58% voted against the voice and 42% voted in favour.

But 74% of the 11,000 people that live in Lingiari’s remote areas voted yes, according to figures provided by Labor MP for Lingiari, Marion Scrymgour.

The highest vote in support of yes was in Wadeye, at 92.1%. The Tiwi Islands voted 84% in favour, and Maningrida recorded an 88% yes vote.

Only one of the 20 mobile remote polling booths in the seat recorded a majority no vote.

In Yuendemu, the community home to the family of Price, shadow minister for Indigenous Australians, three in four people voted yes.

“If only people down south had seen what Aboriginal people in the bush were voting for, then maybe we would have had a different result,” said Scrymgour.

“We can’t change last night, but we can change what happens going forward.”

Some regions in Queensland, where only 31.3% of the state’s population voted yes, showed a similar break away trend for communities with a high Indigenous population.

McCarthy pointed out early polling results from Queensland showed on Palm Island, where the population is 93% Indigenous, three in four voted yes.

On Mornington Island, where 77% of the population is Indigenous, McCarthy said 79% voted yes. And in Lockhart River, where almost 80% of people are Indigenous, 66% voted in favour.

The overall result was at odds with claims made by Price on Saturday night during her speech celebrating the no camp’s win, in which she said a vast group of Indigenous Australians did not support the proposal.

“It was suggested that 80% of Indigenous Australians supported this proposal, when we knew that that was not the case,” Price said of the figure often quoted by the yes camp to prove to Australians Indigenous Australians backed the proposal that came from Indigenous leaders.

“When I knew, having spoken to people throughout the Northern Territory, to Indigenous people from the Northern Territory and right across the country, particularly in my role as the shadow minister for Indigenous Australians, that a vast group of Indigenous Australians did not support the proposal.”

Price also questioned the impartiality of the commission’s delivery of remote polling, saying “remote communities are exploited for someone’s else’s agenda”.

An AEC spokesperson rejected suggestions of interference at remote polling, telling Guardian Australia “the ability to campaign at any polling place, including in remote communities, was of course the same for everyone”.

“We were pleased to have delivered the largest remote voting offering ever with a 25% increase in the number of votes taken in remote communities,” the spokesperson said.

“This was off the back of record rate of enrolment overall, as well as for Indigenous Australians.”

Scrymgour said the number of young Indigenous Australaians voting in the referendum was greater than recent government elections.

“I don’t want them to feel depressed or to feel alienated or to feel that their vote went nowhere,” she said. “So we just need to make sure we continue to give them hope. And that tomorrow things will get better.

“This is a setback, but we’ve had many setbacks over many years, and we’ll continue to fight.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/15/indigenous-communities-overwhelmingly-voted-yes-to-australias-voice-to-parliament

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2023, 11:37:30 am »
Depressing news this. I lived in Australia for a couples years, had a great time and made great friends. But the position of aboriginals within Australia society was always a dark underbelly that it seemed to me most Australians tried their best to avoid thinking about. The idea "well we give them state pensions, but they just take the money and spend it all on booze" was something I heard a good few times, even from otherwise forward-thinking people. Going up to Cairns and seeing the stark division between White and Aboriginal Australia first-hand was eye opening.

The Voice seems like such a minor change with no binding powers, so it must be incredibly depressing for the Aboriginals and anyone who supports their cause to see it so overwhelmingly rejected by the population at large. It must be hard to maintain hope. But similarly, my experiences in Australia make me think this was a very predicatable outcome.

What I don't really understand is why this went to referendum in the first place? Is it an aspect of Australia constitutional law that any changes have to go to referendum?

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2023, 12:09:12 pm »
.

What I don't really understand is why this went to referendum in the first place? Is it an aspect of Australia constitutional law that any changes have to go to referendum?

Correct, same as in Ireland if wikipedia is to be believed

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2023, 12:04:13 am »
My take.
Due to my interactions with aboriginal 'leaders' I voted a hard no.
My first experience was around 25yrs ago, prior to me dealing with them in a professional capacity.
We organised a kids soccer tournament, about 300 kids in a two day tournament. We went to see the local council regarding using/hiring a large park with multiple pitches and they told us we had to go and see the local Aboriginal group as they were the ones who held the rights to use of the park. We contacted them and had a meeting, monies had to be paid up front in cash. We arranged to go in on the Friday to set up the goals/nets etc, about 10 parents took the day off got it all done ready for 8am kick off on Saturday.
Saturday morning arrives and when we get there all the goalposts/nets have gone and the elders are there to tell us we can’t use the area because they’re having some sort of corroboree.
So we’ve got 300 kids plus parents, siblings, friends etc, some having travelled 300klms wondering wtf is going on. The club secretary calls the police, police arrive and tell us “that’s just how it is, you’ll have to leave” But we’ve paid them a substantial amount of cash and they’ve stolen our equipment…”nothing we can do mate, put it down to experience and move on”

Fast forward to my time in the mining industry. If things wanted doing palms had to be greased, usually went like this, “we want to go to area x and check something out” Elder “that’s sacred ground, it’ll cost you X $ in cash”  We would then contact the mining company who we were analysing for and they’d pay the elders involved, generally in the $100’sK sometimes millions of dollars. In cash. We would then go and do our research. The next step was to watch those elders being interviewed on tv as to how we had desecrated their sacred land without asking them for permission…Those small communities usually had a few hundred people who lived in absolute squalor, getting their cash from stealing from the mining companies whilst the elders lived like the millionaires they were.
Fast forward again to my current interactions. One local agency is refusing to pay the substantial ransom to the elders for something trivial, this means that an essential service is now unable to operate in that community, a community with about 60% Aboriginal population. The lack of this service has cost at least one life already and will undoubtedly cost more going forward.

These Aboriginal ‘leaders’ are like unelected tory politicians on steroids, completely unaccountable and totally complicit in the plight of the general Aboriginal population, the billions of dollars spent yearly on Aboriginal programs is funnelled to them and their stooges with a tiny percentage going to where it needs to go.

These leaders do not want their people to be better educated, less marginalised and more integrated in to society as a whole, quite the opposite in fact, because all of those things happening will kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
Therein lies the problem, it’s those people that will have the voice in Australian politics, not the people that actually need the voice.

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2023, 12:14:27 am »
No one mention of Alf Stewart so far, you pommie bastards!

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Re: Strewth cobber, it's the Australia thread!
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2023, 01:23:13 am »
@BrissyRed, I've spoken to a few people who've worked with indigenous communities that also voted Hard No based on their anger at corruption in land councils etc. This is where I think the Voice proponents missed a trick, by not emphasising how they would seek to bring greater transparency and accountability to regional funding (and I think they would have, if only due to the increased scrutiny from disgruntled No campaigners). The opposition have seized on this by announcing they will push for greater auditing, which I agree with. The Voice campaign was too happy-clappy and should have shown a bit more tough love. The Voice principles declared that representatives would be elected by communities and would be gender- and age-balanced, which you'd hope would mean taking the balance of power away from corrupt leaders that I'm assuming are mostly older and male. Honestly, these doubts about existing power structures are the kind of reasons for No that I respect. It's all these lazy soundbites about "not enough info" and "it's divisive" that annoy me more.