Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers

[Schmidt]

what i mean is actually shooting up senators and congressmen/women and those in power.

Yeah my view for a while has been that someone anti-gun needs to shoot a high profile pro-gun politician for anything to potentially change, though even that feels like it would get swept under the rug as it's a very "me before we" group of people.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

John F Kennedy feels ignored.

ah but...

Oh never mind

[Corkboy]

what i mean is actually shooting up senators and congressmen/women and those in power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Giffords

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting

Shootings either side of the aisle, nothing happened.

[stoa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Giffords

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting

Shootings either side of the aisle, nothing happened.

That's the crazy thing. Whenever someone says "This won't change until XY happens" there's an example for XY happening and nothing changing...

[PaulF]

Yeah my view for a while has been that someone anti-gun needs to shoot a high profile pro-gun politician for anything to potentially change, though even that feels like it would get swept under the rug as it's a very "me before we" group of people.

So you are suggesting someone anti-gun goes on a gun rampage.....

[GreatEx]

Yeah my view for a while has been that someone anti-gun needs to shoot a high profile pro-gun politician for anything to potentially change, though even that feels like it would get swept under the rug as it's a very "me before we" group of people.

That would just empower the gun lobby: "see, we told you the anti gun people were psychotic unAmericans, we must carry fully automatic weapons at all times to protect us from them".

A gun nut massacring a crowd at a peaceful anti gun rally is more likely to work. By "work" I mean the NRA and GOP would keep a respectful silence for a few days until a black on white crime saves the day.

[thejbs]

That's the crazy thing. Whenever someone says "This won't change until XY happens" there's an example for XY happening and nothing changing...

Yup. In the UK, all it took was Dunblane.  In the US they've had every imaginable awful scenario and still guns rule supreme. If you can have something like Sandy Hook happen and still no change takes place, you have to concede it to be a lost cause.

[Wabaloolah]

Yup. In the UK, all it took was Dunblane.  In the US they've had every imaginable awful scenario and still guns rule supreme. If you can have something like Sandy Hook happen and still no change takes place, you have to concede it to be a lost cause.

well there was Hungerford before Dunblane where very little was done apart from the Tories reacting to public pressure and moving some weapons to the prohibited range but had they acted more stringently Dunblane would in all likelihood not happened

[rob1966]

well there was Hungerford before Dunblane where very little was done apart from the Tories reacting to public pressure and moving some weapons to the prohibited range but had they acted more stringently Dunblane would in all likelihood not happened

If the Police had done their jobs, Dunblane would never had happened. Sterling gun club kicked Hamilton out, that's an automatic revoke of the FAC, didn't happen. The local Firearms officer wanted his FAC pulled, was overruled. c*nt never should have been near handguns.

[AndyInVA]

I appreciate the NRA are heavy hitters in the US political spectrum but forgive my ignorance, are they really THAT powerful?  Why aren't the people uprising?

Are there really that many people in the States that refuse to give up the right to bear arms?  I guess there is.

I find it hard to explain. I would not consider the NRA powerful but they are loud. Any politician going against them gets bombarded with anti patriotic type rhetoric that they are un American by going against the constitution. My interactions with every day Americans ranges from gun nuts to people who couldn't care less and hardly any who are actually anti gun. The latter is only one and his daughter was a news reporter shot on live TV. I have guy who works for me who wore a gun to work (construction field job) one day on his hip, an ex Uncle in law who owned 35 weapons to really the vast majority who do not own weapons and are politically unopinionated enough to care and numb to news tragedy.

It happens over and over and no cares enough to do anything. That I cannot explain. Why gun laws are such a political third rail is something I do not understand. Why immigration is a bigger issue than gun law makes no sense to me. Why reasoned argument has no standing makes no sense. UK banned guns, Australia banned guns and no now more mass shootings. Yet Americans want to argue away murder will still happen and just pass over the fact that mass murder will happen less and less.

Someone made the point here ages ago. Putting gun rights into the constitution fucked everything up. Now its untouchable.

[stewil007]

That's the crazy thing. Whenever someone says "This won't change until XY happens" there's an example for XY happening and nothing changing...

when i say shooting up the congress, i mean literally someone stood in the main chamber Rambo style laying waste to all those in attendance.  I reckon it would take something of that level to start the conversation and even then excuses would be made and thoughts and prayers offered up

[rob1966]

when i say shooting up the congress, i mean literally someone stood in the main chamber Rambo style laying waste to all those in attendance.  I reckon it would take something of that level to start the conversation and even then excuses would be made and thoughts and prayers offered up

They'd just say that they needed to allow congress to be armed, good guy with a gun and all that shite

[AndyInVA]

They'd just say that they needed to allow congress to be armed, good guy with a gun and all that shite

Yep. That would frankly be the outcome. There would be a lot more guns.

I only feel that the US will change over time with slightly more restrictive guns laws being passed as society develops to more maturity. This is still a very young country with the wild west and Policing performed by an armed Sheriff paid by the community are not that far away.

I hope in 100 years the laws are not so ridiculous as they are now.

[Wabaloolah]

If the Police had done their jobs, Dunblane would never had happened. Sterling gun club kicked Hamilton out, that's an automatic revoke of the FAC, didn't happen. The local Firearms officer wanted his FAC pulled, was overruled. c*nt never should have been near handguns.

yes that's a fair point too

[reddebs]

Is it ironic or hypocritical of "Americans" to be so anti immigration when they're all immigrants themselves and the only indigenous Americans are treated like cattle.

Moved off their homelands, robbed of any status and corralled into communes, oh but you can keep your sacred burial grounds once we've moved all your other graves that interfere with our planned developments.

And yes I am aware that it was mainly the English and French with a few Dutch thrown in for good measure that were the perpetrators.

[rob1966]

Is it ironic or hypocritical of "Americans" to be so anti immigration when they're all immigrants themselves and the only indigenous Americans are treated like cattle.

Moved off their homelands, robbed of any status and corralled into communes, oh but you can keep your sacred burial grounds once we've moved all your other graves that interfere with our planned developments.

And yes I am aware that it was mainly the English and French with a few Dutch thrown in for good measure that were the perpetrators.

Same as Patel, Sunak and Bravermann, all c*nts pulling the same shit.

I'm going to start learning about the natives, I'd love to fully understand about what happened and how they are treated now. I know for example that now, native women are being raped at twice the national average, 1 in 3 women are victims.

[AndyInVA]

Is it ironic or hypocritical of "Americans" to be so anti immigration when they're all immigrants themselves and the only indigenous Americans are treated like cattle.

Moved off their homelands, robbed of any status and corralled into communes, oh but you can keep your sacred burial grounds once we've moved all your other graves that interfere with our planned developments.

And yes I am aware that it was mainly the English and French with a few Dutch thrown in for good measure that were the perpetrators.

In my experience the modern American just over looks the treatment of the indigenous population and doesn't see the irony of them being immigrants as they simply don't really acknowledge that there was an indigenous population.

It's not that unusual I think, but as a population, much like people do, they over look what they are a little bit ashamed of.

[Boston always unofficial]

Is it ironic or hypocritical of "Americans" to be so anti immigration when they're all immigrants themselves and the only indigenous Americans are treated like cattle.

Moved off their homelands, robbed of any status and corralled into communes, oh but you can keep your sacred burial grounds once we've moved all your other graves that interfere with our planned developments.

And yes I am aware that it was mainly the English and French with a few Dutch thrown in for good measure that were the perpetrators.

That's a whole old mess of a subject,defo not for the mad arses with guns thread.Talking of which,Democrat controlled Mass https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/07/20/metro/guns-legislature-house-senate-massachusetts/?p1=BGSearch_Advanced_Results.Now if these can't get on the same page,what hope is there in the gun states.

[GreatEx]

In my experience the modern American just over looks the treatment of the indigenous population and doesn't see the irony of them being immigrants as they simply don't really acknowledge that there was an indigenous population.

It's not that unusual I think, but as a population, much like people do, they over look what they are a little bit ashamed of.

It's not an American thing, it's kind of weird and shameful how many people in my country will use the word "Aussies" to refer to white anglo Australian citizens and "aboriginal people" as some separate entity - not consciously, mind, but it does betray certain hidden prejudices. I suppose you could argue that "Australia" is a British construct and that indigenous people considered the continent to be made up of many nations, but I'm pretty sure that depth of understanding is not at the heart of the "Aussies" demonym.

[PaulF]

I'm going to start learning about the natives, I'd love to fully understand about what happened and how they are treated now. I know for example that now, native women are being raped at twice the national average, 1 in 3 women are victims.

Doesn't that just prove that Native American men are more likely to be rapists?  (edit - I know , you'll know I'm not serious, but that's how that stat could be viewed).

I think we were looking at the glorification of guns in films.
What happens when we don't have guns on screen. For example the last three things I've watched are Barbie, Mission Impossible and Jack Ryan (TV series). Now that might say something about my viewing preferences more than Tv in general, and I know there will be debate about how good (or not MI) is, but you can't deny it's incredibly popular. And guns are everywhere in it. And although not directly glorified the 'All american, gun toting action hero' is glorified.

[rob1966]

Doesn't that just prove that Native American men are more likely to be rapists?  (edit - I know , you'll know I'm not serious, but that's how that stat could be viewed).

I think we were looking at the glorification of guns in films.
What happens when we don't have guns on screen. For example the last three things I've watched are Barbie, Mission Impossible and Jack Ryan (TV series). Now that might say something about my viewing preferences more than Tv in general, and I know there will be debate about how good (or not MI) is, but you can't deny it's incredibly popular. And guns are everywhere in it. And although not directly glorified the 'All american, gun toting action hero' is glorified.

It's all over the place, from Death Wish and Dirty Harry, through Die Hard to now, it's always a good guy with a gun kills a bad guy.

I've been having this argument with a mate, who falls for that shit (bear in mind I'm a member of a gun club, have owned handguns in the past and did a lot of training to learn stuff outside of my main hobby or target shooting) and I keep telling him this whole "good guy with a gun" argument is bullshit. The ONLY way you'll win a gun fight is if you take the robber by surprise, most armed muggers will shoot you before your gun gets out of its holster. I was timed years ago and I could draw from a side holster, put one into a man targets heart and two between the eyes in under 2 secs and I'd still not be fancying my chances against someone edgy as fuck, with their finger already applying pressure to the trigger and pointing the gun at you.

[Fortneef]

My hope is there are no more mass shootings, but if there is one, I hope its at an ammosexual event. Some dickhead lets off some fireworks. one gun nuts think its a shooter, start firing, other nuts think that those shooters are the enemy, and return fire, so it ends up like the end of reservoir dogs, but on a bigger scale.  The important thing is that the prankster , the shooters , and the dead are all NRA lunatics , rather than real people.

[Fortneef]

Ive probably posted this before.



I admire it as a Gorey tribute until P is for Paula when I properly  realise this actually happens  and lose it.

[Ghost Town]

Ive probably posted this before.



I admire it as a Gorey tribute until P is for Paula when I properly  realise this actually happens  and lose it.

Yes, it's very well done. I love all the thematic details

[PaulF]

It's all over the place, from Death Wish and Dirty Harry, through Die Hard to now, it's always a good guy with a gun kills a bad guy.

I've been having this argument with a mate, who falls for that shit (bear in mind I'm a member of a gun club, have owned handguns in the past and did a lot of training to learn stuff outside of my main hobby or target shooting) and I keep telling him this whole "good guy with a gun" argument is bullshit. The ONLY way you'll win a gun fight is if you take the robber by surprise, most armed muggers will shoot you before your gun gets out of its holster. I was timed years ago and I could draw from a side holster, put one into a man targets heart and two between the eyes in under 2 secs and I'd still not be fancying my chances against someone edgy as fuck, with their finger already applying pressure to the trigger and pointing the gun at you.

Probably not the right place for it, but I quite like shooting guns at targets.  Any indication of what an hour at a range is likely to cost?

[lobsterboy]

Sadly these are now such an everyday occurrence in The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave that this thread no longer gets bumped with each atrocity.

[Chakan]

Sadly these are now such an everyday occurrence in The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave that this thread no longer gets bumped with each atrocity.

I don’t think there’s anything more to be said at this time really.

[Boston always unofficial]

The numbers haven't been high enough.3 dead in Florida,3 in Cali,2 in Louisville,none in the recent Boston shooting.The fucking nerve of DeSantis to show up at  the vigil in Fl though.What a p.o.s that guy is.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What a fucking country. 

California ban on gun marketing to kids blocked by appeals court

(Reuters) -A U.S. appeals court on Wednesday blocked a California law banning gun marketing that is attractive to minors, saying it was unlikely to reduce gun violence or the unlawful use of firearms.

A panel of the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said hunting and sport shooting groups were likely to prevail on claims that the law violates their free-speech rights under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and blocked it pending the outcome of the case.

The court reversed a January ruling by a federal judge in Sacramento who had said the law properly regulated commercial speech and the groups were unlikely to succeed in their challenge.

The 9th Circuit said that because California allows minors to possess and use guns under supervision, the state cannot justify the ban as a way to curb the unlawful use of firearms.

"California’s law does not significantly advance its purported goals and is more extensive than necessary," Circuit Judge Kenneth Lee wrote for the court.

The 9th Circuit, which has nearly 30 active judges, is considered to be one of the most liberal U.S. appeals courts. But the three judges on Wednesday's panel was made up entirely of appointees of Republican presidents.

The California Attorney General's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Chuck Michel, a lawyer for the groups and the president of the California Rifle & Pistol Association, applauded the decision in a statement.

"This is another example of legislative overreach and the politicians' willingness to trample on constitutional rights," he said.

California Governor Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, signed the measure into law last year, citing the need for new legislation "as the (U.S.) Supreme Court rolls back important gun safety protections."

Newsom's office cited gun manufacturer Wee 1 Tactical's advertising of an AR-15 meant for kids as an example of why the law was needed.

California lawmakers passed the ban days after the conservative-majority U.S. Supreme Court ruled the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment protects a person's right to carry a handgun in public for self-defense.

That ruling, which said any restrictions on gun ownership must fall within the nation's "historical tradition of firearm regulation," has led courts to strike down other gun control laws.

(Reporting by Daniel Wiessner in Albany, New York; Editing by Alexia Garamfalvi, David Holmes and Timothy Gardner)

[Boston always unofficial]

They don't really need to advertise guns anyway,Video games,music vids,tv shows,movies of course all do a fine job.

[Dim Glas]

Breaking news right now. Lewiston, Maine, the latest mass shooting 

many deaths reported (at least 16 22 ) and 50/60 injured.

Took place across 3 locations including a bowling alley.

[shank94]

Land of the thoughts and prayers

[Caligula?]

Sending lots of tots and pears

[Zlen]

Honestly, horrible as it may be - I'm not even flinching any more on news like this. If tomorrow there was a mass shooting in USA where shooter mowed down 1000 kids - it will go through the media cycle and disappear within a week. Who am I to lament their choices. No mass shooting will obviously make them change anything regarding gun laws, so best just leave them to it. Barbaric country.

[lobsterboy]

They'd just say that they needed to allow congress to be armed, good guy with a gun and all that shite

You would just end up with a congress full of boeberts.

[Mark Walters]

A firearms instructor you know?!

Thoughts and prayers though!

[BOBSCOUSE]

Sending lots of tots and pears

Never had you down as an Everton fan - you got a fruit and veg stall too?

[So… Howard Philips]

A firearms instructor you know?!

Thoughts and prayers though!

I thought a good guy with a gun…….?

There’s nothing to say as long as it’s perfectly legal to own military grade weapons.

[Nobby Reserve]

From the Indy:

As per law enforcement reports, Card served as a firearms instructor in the US Army Reserve. He recently disclosed mental health issues, citing experiences of auditory hallucinations including hearing voices and threats to shoot up the National Guard Base in Saco, according to a Maine law enforcement bulletin seen by the Associated Press.

He was also committed to a mental health facility for two weeks during the summer of 2023. According to a report by Macra, Card has a history of arrests for domestic violence and other crimes.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/robert-card-person-of-interest-maine-lewiston-shooting-b2436280.html

FFS, a man with mental health issues and numerous arrests for violence... and they let him have guns.

The Repugs and gun fetishists have fought tooth and nail to block laws bringing in sensible controls on gun ownership for people with mental health issues or histories of violence. Evil, right-wing scum.

[Chakan]

From the Indy:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/robert-card-person-of-interest-maine-lewiston-shooting-b2436280.html

FFS, a man with mental health issues and numerous arrests for violence... and they let him have guns.

The Repugs and gun fetishists have fought tooth and nail to block laws bringing in sensible controls on gun ownership for people with mental health issues or histories of violence. Evil, right-wing scum.

One of the first things trump did when he became president was make it easier for people with mental health issues to own guns. So yeah…

Also in California a federal judge overturned the ban on assault rifles because it was “unconstitutional”

Anyway who cares anymore. Thoughts prayers not the time to talk about gun control, yada yada forgotten in a week.