Author Topic: Sportwashing-A general thread  (Read 61448 times)

Offline BarryCrocker

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Sportwashing-A general thread
« on: October 25, 2022, 03:43:52 am »
As we all know the process of sovereign states buying sporting teams to clean up there international image is not new. Whether it's football or horse racing the money thrown into sports with the sole ambition of improving the image of the sponsor/owners has certainly changed the playing field.

Recently we've seen 2 major sponsorship deals in Australian sports called in question by the people who are literally the faces of the sport.

Firstly, Australian cricket captain Pat Cummins has said he will no longer appear in any more ads for the  Cricket Australia energy company sponsor, Alinta Energy. This has resulted in the sponsorship deal not being renewed by Alinta when it expires in 12 months time. Cummins is a vocal environmentalist and believes his image as he's a committed climate action advocate doesn't fit with a energy company that relies on coal and gas.

The second case is even stronger. Netball Australia which is in the hole with a $4m debt has just lost their new sponsor Hancock Prospecting's $15m deal. An indigenous player's request not to wear their logo for a 3 match series versus the England. The late founder of Hancock Prospecting has a shocking record of wanting to erase the Aboriginal race from the face of the earth as evidenced in a 1984 TV interview where he said:

Quote
“The ones that are no good to themselves and can’t accept things, the half-castes — and this is where most of the trouble comes — I would dope the water up so that they were sterile and would breed themselves out in future and that would solve the problem.”

In addition to these there are many examples of athletes requesting they be exempt from wearing alcohol or gambling branding on their kits due to their religious beliefs. Is this the beginning of an age where clubs will need to consider who pumps money into their clubs because players are now wanting more of a voice?

Thoughts?

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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2022, 07:10:19 am »
I still hold out hope that on the eve of this coming world cup players from several countries will pull out of the tournament en mass as a protest against the biggest sport washing farce of all time, naive i know but i still like to believe in the goodness of people and of sport.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2022, 08:29:43 am »
As we all know the process of sovereign states buying sporting teams to clean up there international image is not new. Whether it's football or horse racing the money thrown into sports with the sole ambition of improving the image of the sponsor/owners has certainly changed the playing field.

Recently we've seen 2 major sponsorship deals in Australian sports called in question by the people who are literally the faces of the sport.

Firstly, Australian cricket captain Pat Cummins has said he will no longer appear in any more ads for the  Cricket Australia energy company sponsor, Alinta Energy. This has resulted in the sponsorship deal not being renewed by Alinta when it expires in 12 months time. Cummins is a vocal environmentalist and believes his image as he's a committed climate action advocate doesn't fit with a energy company that relies on coal and gas.

The second case is even stronger. Netball Australia which is in the hole with a $4m debt has just lost their new sponsor Hancock Prospecting's $15m deal. An indigenous player's request not to wear their logo for a 3 match series versus the England. The late founder of Hancock Prospecting has a shocking record of wanting to erase the Aboriginal race from the face of the earth as evidenced in a 1984 TV interview where he said:

In addition to these there are many examples of athletes requesting they be exempt from wearing alcohol or gambling branding on their kits due to their religious beliefs. Is this the beginning of an age where clubs will need to consider who pumps money into their clubs because players are now wanting more of a voice?

Thoughts?

It’d be nice to think it would be!

And good for those taking a principled stand.

It’d take a few players to do that here, but I am not holding out much hope it’ll happen.  Imagine a high profile player having the integrity to say no to a massive Newcastle Utd or Man City contract and stating the reasons for it was, because he can’t take money from people who murder journalists, jail people for tweeting, torture and jail LGBTQ people, kill Yemeni children to name just a few things.

And of cousre a big part of the issue why is the very obvious one - pure greed. You get offered 10’s of millions that sets you and all you family up for life, it’s easy to turn a blind eye. A lot of these players going to these clubs get the chance to earn more in one contract than they would in at least 3 or 4 contracts at other clubs - Haaland being the most recent example of that.


Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2022, 08:46:34 am »
We can also add boxing and golf to this thread.  Sport, geenrally, is a very willing vehicle in the washing process.

We can also throw athletics in there too.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 10:31:22 am by Red-Soldier »

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2022, 09:17:49 am »
Football has sold out to murderers and tyrants with the world cup, City, Newcastle and PSG. They have bought our league, our authorities, officials and media.
Its disgusting that we are off winter training at a place owned by a fella who imprisons, disappears and turns his daughters into child brides.
There are other places in the world to train in warm weather, ones who don't murder their citizens for being gay, female or politically opposed.
Just another reason not to bother with it anymore.

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2022, 10:17:38 am »
The winter Olympics going to a country that has probably never had a day under 30 degrees in it's history  ;D
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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2022, 10:31:28 am »
The winter Olympics going to a country that has probably never had a day under 30 degrees in it's history  ;D
It shows how they want to own everything. They won’t stop until they control every major sport on the planet.
They are close to owning football, making a major play for golf. The ‘WINTER’ olympics. It is crazy.

Online The North Bank

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2022, 11:26:38 am »
The winter Olympics going to a country that has probably never had a day under 30 degrees in it's history  ;D

where is it going, i didnt hear that one

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2022, 11:38:22 am »
where is it going, i didnt hear that one

Saudi Arabia. They're building a brand new city, and executing people that don't want to move out of their homes to make way for it.
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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2022, 11:46:07 am »
The winter Olympics going to a country that has probably never had a day under 30 degrees in it's history  ;D

Racist something something...
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2022, 12:00:22 pm »
The winter Olympics going to a country that has probably never had a day under 30 degrees in it's history  ;D


Isn't it the Asian Winter Games that the Saudi dictatorship has won bought the rights to host?
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Offline plura

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2022, 01:55:35 pm »
It’s interesting that in this age when things are called out in public more than ever football clubs in the biggest league in the world gets a free pass.

I would have for example expected the guardian to have done more here, they are so eager to call out discrimination, environmental issues and other on topic issues all the time. But here? Not much. Dictatorships buying clubs and destroying football isn’t as interesting, or they are paid enough to avoid talking about it.

Interesting with the cricket example because I was thinking about what could be done on this issue and I think if a player or group of players stood up against the coming WC then that could make a difference.

Sure actual full scale financial audits that does the job will have its effect but lots of things things are symbolic and PR based and a greater effect would be if a top young player for England/France/Spain or Germany perhaps refused to play in the wc more than anything else perhaps right now.

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2022, 01:57:49 pm »

Isn't it the Asian Winter Games that the Saudi dictatorship has won bought the rights to host?

My mistake, it is indeed.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2022, 02:01:39 pm »
I actually think most of us, as big football fans, can make a pretty big statement not watching the World Cup. I know the argument is that it won’t make a difference if we do or don’t, or we won’t watch it on BBC or ITV so it won’t matter. But me personally I know if I don’t watch it people around me would notice, and maybe it’d drip down to them. This is where people who don’t like football start watching it, it’ll be noticeable at least to them if we don’t do the same.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Boston always unofficial

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2022, 06:51:08 pm »
The winter Olympics going to a country that has probably never had a day under 30 degrees in it's history  ;D

Not to get all Gerry geography teacher but they have mountains up in the north west of the country near Jordan/Iraq border.And i'm lead to believe christmas was invented not to far from there either and it always snows at christmas!

Offline reddebs

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2022, 09:05:00 pm »

Not to get all Gerry geography teacher but they have mountains up in the north west of the country near Jordan/Iraq border.And i'm lead to believe christmas was invented not to far from there either and it always snows at christmas!

Yeah but that Christmas was hijacked by Victorian Britain and Coca-Cola.

The one in the Middle East was about a baby whose birthday someone decided was 25th December and that story never included snow 🤷

We as a fanbase are perfectly placed to let our feelings be known to the club about warm weather training over there.  I mean wtf happened to going to La Manga!!

Offline Brissyred

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Re: Sports/Brandwashing - Calling it Out
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2022, 12:37:25 am »
And of cousre a big part of the issue why is the very obvious one - pure greed. You get offered 10’s of millions that sets you and all you family up for life, it’s easy to turn a blind eye. A lot of these players going to these clubs get the chance to earn more in one contract than they would in at least 3 or 4 contracts at other clubs - Haaland being the most recent example of that.
The problem with that argument is that the money available from normal clubs will also set you and your family up for life, its not like city are paying 10m/season and Liverpool are paying 50 quid/season.
Any top player signing for a top club in the PL is set for life, the extra money from sportswashers would make no material difference to your standard of living.
There's no excuse whatsoever to 'turn a blind eye', it's pure greed.

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #17 on: June 9, 2023, 12:21:31 am »
I started this because sportswashing is all over the place at the moment and I didn't want to repeat in the Newcastle, Golf etc threads the same issues when they are so similiar. This particular article relates to Saudi Arabia but there's a bigger picture debate going on as well.

Article from today's i Newspaper

LIV Golf Takeover is just the start-Newcastle's Saudi owners can 'turn football upside down

'PIF are described as ‘serious people with a serious strategy’ as they continue their battle for sporting influence.To those still reeling at a week when Saudi financial muscle has been flexed in the world of sport, there is a message that can’t be ignored. The de facto takeover of golf announced on Tuesday was really just the start.   “The shocks haven’t finished yet,” one observer with knowledge of the intentions of the Public Investment Fund (PIF) tells i.No-one wants to get into specifics just yet but the implication is clear: there is more to come. Much more.

For all the surprise at the merger announced by the PIF-funded LIV Golf tournament and the PGA Tour, there is amusement among those who have long seen the direction of travel in this particular dispute and wider Saudi sporting aspirations.


“It’s seismic but it’s also just logical,” one source says. The goal of the PIF, they explain, is not to disrupt existing orders from outside but to eventually influence things from inside the tent. That means seats on boards or having the loudest voice in the room rather than the squabbling and sniping that has beset golf in recent months.

It is why Newcastle, the 80 per cent PIF-owned Premier League club, speak so often about sticking to Financial Fair Play rules, which are the ultimate tool of the established order to maintain the status quo. They seem to pick their battles carefully.
The same train of thought applies to PIF’s decision this week to assume control of the four biggest Saudi clubs as a precursor to building a domestic league that can rival some of Europe’s biggest.[/size]
The ambition mapped out in the Vision 2030 programme intended to wean Saudi Arabia’s economy off its dependence on oil placed sport, leisure and entertainment at its heart.


An investment of around $30billion was pledged in 2019 and four years later it is starting to be felt.

While many feel distinctly queasy about football’s embrace of Saudi Arabia given its human rights record, the huge contracts handed out to Cristiano Ronaldo and Karim Benzema prove money talks. More elite players are expected to join the league this summer and one Premier League director told i it has the capacity to turn this summer’s transfer window “upside down”.

But PIF intentions are not just to shock and awe. Those who have heard their vision in Newcastle will be well aware that they are a process-driven fund, methodical in their approach and demanding detail about how their investments will reap long-term rewards.

“These are serious people with a serious strategy,” a source told i.

Proof of the already growing spheres of influence emerged when Yasir Al-Rumayyan – nicknamed “H.E.” by Newcastle insiders on account of his official title of “His Excellency” – namechecked the success they’ve had at St James’ Park in his first interview after golf’s truce was announced.

Indeed Magpies co-owner Amanda Staveley, a close ally of PIF governor and Newcastle chairman Al-Rumayyan, emerged as the key broker in talks between the PGA and LIV.
Staveley’s knowledge of golf before she stepped into that role was fairly minimal but her modus operandi, as she did during the dispute between the PIF and Premier League that stalled the takeover of
Newcastle, is to encourage cooler heads to prevail.And that proved pivotal in engineering the deal between LIV Golf and the PGA Tour that was announced.

“Undoubtedly good for golf,” was how once source described it to i. Another pointed out that it was a sport that, unlike football, did not naturally embrace conflict between rival factions so an agreement was always likely, it just needed the right people to propose it.


Amnesty International branded the LIV Golf deal sportswashing while a 9/11 survivors group called out the hypocrisy of the PGA Tour’s leaders. But how many athletes or supporters will have noted that those who spoke of their principles and turned down the LIV cash ended up the losers?

For all the noise it feels like a simple tale of money and influence. Saudi Arabia has one and craves the other. The eventual outcome feels inevitable.
« Last Edit: June 9, 2023, 12:27:06 am by Black Bull Nova »
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #18 on: June 9, 2023, 02:01:41 am »


Quote
Saudi Soccer League Creates Huge Fund to Sign Global Stars
A coordinated effort financed by the kingdom’s Public Investment Fund is offering huge paydays to some of the sport’s biggest stars if they join Saudi Arabia’s best teams.

The lists have been drawn up and the financing secured. Saudi Arabia is looking to lure some of the world’s best known soccer players to join Cristiano Ronaldo in its national league. And to close the deals, it is relying on money, the one commodity it knows it can offer more of than any of its rival leagues.

Similar in ambition to the Saudi-financed campaign to dominate golf through the new LIV series, the plan appears to be a centralized effort — supported at the highest levels in Saudi Arabia, and financed by the kingdom’s huge sovereign wealth fund — to turn the country’s domestic league, a footnote on the global soccer stage, into a destination for top talent.

To make that happen, Saudi clubs are already approaching players receptive to moving to the kingdom with some of the highest annual salaries in sports history. The deals could require in excess of $1 billion for wages for some 20 foreign players.

Cristiano Ronaldo, a five-time world player of the year, has led the way. He joined the Saudi club Al-Nassr after the 2022 World Cup, in a deal reported to be worth $200 million per season. Last month, Al-Nassr narrowly missed out on the league championship on the penultimate week of the season, but for those running the Saudi league Ronaldo’s presence alone was a victory in that it ensured unprecedented attention on the country’s top division, the Saudi Premier League.

Since Ronaldo arrived, the Saudi league has been considering whether to centrally coordinate more big-money signings in order to distribute talent evenly among the biggest teams, according to interviews with agents, television executives, Saudi sports officials and consultants hired to execute the project, the details of which have not previously been reported. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because the deals involved were private.

In recent weeks, leaks about huge offers to famous players have mounted: Lionel Messi, who led Argentina to the World Cup title in December, is said to have been tempted by a contract even richer than Ronaldo’s Saudi deal; and the French striker Karim Benzema, the reigning world player of the year, has reportedly agreed to leave Real Madrid for a nine-figure deal to play in Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi league’s British chief executive, Garry Cook, a former Nike executive who briefly ran Manchester City after it was bought by the brother of the ruler of the United Arab Emirates, has been tasked with executing the plans. Cook did not respond to an email seeking comment. League officials also did not respond to requests for comment about the plans.

The project comes on the heels of a surprisingly strong performance by Saudi Arabia at last year’s World Cup in Qatar. The team’s run included a stunning victory over the eventual champion, Argentina, which stoked pride on the Saudi streets and in the halls of power in Riyadh. The project’s goal is not so much to make the Saudi league an equal of century-old competitions like England’s Premier League or other top European competitions, but to increase Saudi influence in the sport, and perhaps boost its profile as it bids for the 2030 World Cup.

But the effort also is reminiscent of a similar scheme a decade ago in which China sought to force its way into the global soccer conversation through a series of high-profile and high-dollar acquisitions. That bold plan, eventually marred by broken contracts, economic implosions and the coronavirus pandemic, is now seemingly at an end.

The plans for the Saudi league to become the dominant domestic competition in Asia are similarly subject to the whims of the country’s leadership, and could yet be derailed by a sudden change of direction, or an ability to sign the kind of elite talents being pursued. The players, too, would be committing to contracts with teams that in the past have been regular attendees at arbitration hearings claiming unpaid fees and salaries.

According to the interviews with people familiar with the project, the league, and not the clubs, would centrally negotiate player transfers and assign players to certain teams, in a model similar to one used by Major League Soccer as it built its global profile. Centralized signings would be a departure from what is typical in much of the rest of the world, where clubs directly acquire and trade players independently.

The size of the Saudi war chest is unclear, but officials briefed on the subject say it is as hefty as the list of players the league has identified as potential recruits. Much of the money invested in the league and the clubs in recent times has come from the Public Investment Fund, the country’s sovereign wealth fund chaired by the kingdom’s powerful crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman.

The fund has signed 20-year commercial agreements worth tens of millions of dollars with the four most popular clubs in the Saudi Premier League. Those deals will require the teams, two from Riyadh and two from the port city of Jeddah, to play games at new arenas in entertainment complexes being built by PIF subsidiaries. The PIF also sponsors the league itself through one of the companies in its portfolio, the real estate developer Roshn.

According to one of the people briefed on the plans, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss them publicly, the goal is for the four biggest teams to field three top foreign players each, and for another eight players to be distributed among the remaining 12 teams in the league.

The move for greater centralization of the league would end a period of autonomy granted to the clubs, and is further indication of the Saudi state’s interest in using sports as part of a drive to alter perceptions of the kingdom on the global stage, and diversify its economy away from oil. Saudi Arabia has been among the biggest spenders in global sports in recent years, bringing major events to the kingdom and investing in sports properties.

PIF has been the driving force behind much of that, too. Two years ago it acquired Newcastle United, an English Premier League club, and through its funding and smart recruitment helped it to achieve its best league finish in decades and a place in next season’s Champions League. The Saudi oil company, Aramco, is a major sponsor of the Formula 1 auto racing series. But perhaps the PIF’s splashiest efforts have been in golf, where it has poured billions into creating LIV, the rival competition to the established tours in North America and Europe.

All of those projects have attracted scrutiny amid claims Saudi Arabia is using its investments in sports to divert attention from its human rights record. But the golf series, in particular, has shown that Saudi Arabia’s interest in sports may not be deterred even if the promised financial bonanza does not arrive. And Saudi officials have vigorously denied “sportswashing” allegations, arguing that some of the motivations behind their push into global sports include catering to their sports-loving population and encouraging greater physical activity in a country where obesity and diabetes are common.

Discussions with potential soccer recruits and their agents are underway. Saudi Arabia’s sudden and cash-soaked presence is likely to create further chaos in soccer’s typically frenzied summer trading window, which typically runs from June through August.

Beefing up the four best teams may not be universally popular in the kingdom, which has its own rich soccer history and where the sport is passionately followed. Teams not considered to be counted in the elite group are already expressing frustration at the prospect of being left behind.

The sense of unfairness has been felt most visibly at Al-Shabab, the third-largest club in the capital, Riyadh, which has had to contend with living in the shadows of its prominent rivals Al-Nassr and Al-Hilal and their two Jeddah-based counterparts, Al-Ittihad and Al-Ahli.

“I have buried the ‘big four’ myth with my own hands,” the Al-Shabab president Khalid al-Baltan told reporters at the end of last season, when Al-Ahli was relegated to the second division for the first time in its history. Al-Baltan’s team dominated the Saudi league in the 1990s, when it was home to stars such as Fuad Anwar Amin and Saeed al-Owairan, who led Saudi Arabia to the knockout stage in the kingdom’s first World Cup appearance in 1994.

While Saudi Arabia’s ministry of sports is currently funding a major renovation of Al-Shabab stadium in northern Riyadh, al-Baltan has complained bitterly about a lack of support — while taking care to avoid criticizing the government or the PIF by name.

“The gap is getting too large, the financial situation does not allow us to compete with other clubs,” al-Baltan said during a news conference last week, as he wondered aloud how Al-Shabab was supposed to compete when Ronaldo’s salary for one season is four times the size of his club’s annual budget.

“Am I expected to close that huge gap myself?” he asked. “My car is a small Japanese sedan, and I’m somehow expected to race against Lamborghinis and Ferraris. If I don’t win then I’m bad? This is not logical.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/02/sports/soccer/saudi-soccer-messi-benzema-ronaldo.html
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #19 on: June 9, 2023, 02:06:01 am »
Quote
IOC not consulted over Saudi plans for $500bn desert Asian Winter Games

> IOC says it was not involved in the decision-making process
> 2029 Games in clear conflict with policy of using existing arenas

The International Olympic Committee has said it was not consulted in the decision by the Olympic Council of Asia to pick Saudi Arabia as the hosts of the 2029 Asian Winter Games.

The choice for the 2029 Games at the OCA general assembly raised eyebrows Saudi Arabia experiencing only rare snowfall and without any winter sports infrastructure or tradition. That means all or most venues needed for this multi-sports event would have to be built from scratch.

“The IOC was not consulted about the OCA decision with regard to the Asian Winter Games and was not involved in the decision-making process,” an IOC spokesperson said. “As far as the IOC is concerned, sustainability is a key pillar of Olympic Agenda 2020+5.” The IOC’s Olympic Games' reform plan is aimed at reducing costs and the size of the Olympics to make them more attractive to potential host cities.

Saudi Arabia plans to build a mountain resort in the Gulf Arab state’s $500bn flagship Neom project. The Trojena development is expected to be completed in 2026 and will offer outdoor skiing, a man-made freshwater lake and a nature reserve, according to the project’s website.

“For the Olympic Games, the IOC made it plain in Olympic Agenda 2020+5 that there is a clear priority for existing venues. If these do not exist, the use of temporary venues is encouraged,” the IOC spokesperson said.

“If neither of these works from a sustainability point of view, the respective events can even be held outside the Olympic host country. The IOC also requires organising committees to achieve climate-positive Olympic Games by 2030 at the latest.“

Paris will hold the 2024 summer Olympics while Italy’s Cortina D’Ampezzo will stage the 2026 winter Games. The 2028 summer Games will be held in Los Angeles while Brisbane, Australia, will host the 2032 summer Olympics.

Neom is Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s most ambitious project under the Saudi kingdom’s Vision 2030 development plan to reduce reliance on oil and transform the economy, including by developing sports. Neom, a 26,500 sq km (10,230-square-mile) hi-tech development on the Red Sea, will include zero-carbon city “The Line” as well as industrial and logistics areas.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/05/ioc-not-consulted-over-saudi-plans-for-500bn-desert-asian-winter-games
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #20 on: June 9, 2023, 02:14:33 am »
Quote
Boxing's dirty washing is at home in Saudi Arabia
Amnesty International don’t get involved in boxing very often but have been vocal in condemning the decision to hold Joshua v Usyk in Jeddah

One of the most exciting boxers at the last Olympics was the eventual middleweight champion, Hebert Conceicao.

He made his professional debut last Saturday, beating a journeyman in Danny Mendoza.

That the fight between a Brazilian and a Nicaraguan took place in the city of Tashkent in Uzbekistan tells us much about the geopolitics of sport.

It is a country that is rich in oil and other natural resources. It is a country with a poor human rights record. It is a country that is using sport to help launder its reputation.

The card in Taskhkent was a Probellum one — a company that has made a rapid rise and that has issued writs against journalists who suggested that it has links to the now defunct MTK Global.

So the Probellum chiefs wouldn’t have been happy with Shakhobidin Zoirov last Saturday night.

He was on the undercard in Taskhkent and stepped into the ring wearing a robe with a large MTK Global on the back.

Maybe it’s a reminder to us all that the company co founded by Daniel Kinahan still casts a long shadow, as does the man himself.

Tonight in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there is another echo of Kinahan with the heavyweight clash of Anthony Joshua and Oleksandr Usyk.

Two years ago, the world was waiting on a huge Joshua fight there — but the expectation was that it would be against Tyson Fury.

Just after lunchtime on June 9, 2020, Fury uploaded a video on to his Instagram account.

In that clip, he — prematurely — announced that a deal had been done to fight Joshua.

It would be one of the most lucrative fights of all time and Fury made it clear that would happen due to one man. “Thanks to Dan!” Dan is Daniel Kinahan.

Quickly, it emerged that Saudi Arabia was favourite to host the event, but the scrutiny on Kinahan from outside Ireland after Fury’s Insta post helped reach the situation where the US authorities offered a $5m reward for information leading to his capture.

Fury is retiring and coming out of retirement at a bewildering rate. Today is a Saturday. When there’s an ‘r’ in the day, we think it means he is still retired...

For all sorts of reasons, Fury v Joshua in Saudi Arabia would have been the ultimate sportswashing event.

Even without Fury’s former advisor, Kinahan, and MTK Global, it’s still right up there.

Try telling that to Joshua, though. Golfers have come up with some lame excuses for getting in bed with the Saudis, Joshua raised eyebrows with his pathetic responses this week too.

Presumably, he lies in a dark cave in Ulan Bator with no electricity as he claimed not to understand what sportswashing means.

“I don’t know what that is. The world’s in a bad place, I can’t just point one place out,” he said. “If you want to point Saudi out, let’s point everyone out. We’ve all got to do better, and that’s where my heart is. The whole world has got to do better if it wants to change.”

An answer worthy of a Rose of Tralee contestant.


This was a week where a woman, Salma al-Shehab, was sentenced to 34 years in prison in Saudi because she followed and retweeted dissidents on Twitter.

This is a country that executed 81 men on one day in March — some were killed for holding “deviant beliefs’’.

Ongoing issues with Saudi Arabia include the murder of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi, the treatment of women and gay people, the hacking of Jeff Bezos’ phone and the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen.

Saudi law has led to gay people being punished for homosexual acts with public whippings and chemical castration, as well as exectutions.

According to the promoter of tonight’s fight, Eddie Hearn of Matchroom, Joshua v Usyk had to take place in Jeddah, though.

“I’m very comfortable, particularly in boxing, to make decisions like that. It’s a prize fight where, contractually, we have to go to the venue that ultimately creates the most amount of revenue for this fight,’’ he said.

“Even if I felt it was morally incorrect to come here, I would still come.”

The LIV tour is an attempted power-grab in golf, and it’s using Saudi money as a weapon.

Tomorrow, in the Premier League, Manchester City — backed by Abu Dhabi — take on Newcastle United — with Saudi owners.

Sport has become a battleground. Amnesty International, for example, don’t get involved in boxing very often but have been vocal in condemning the decision to hold Joshua v Usyk in Jeddah.

It’s important too to point out the double standards that are often at play.

Many Irish companies do business with Saudi Arabia. Leo Varadkar led a trade mission to Saudi last year and pledged to “deepen ties’’ with this country.

US President Joe Biden visited Saudi last month. France and Britain are among other countries keen to forge links with Saudi Arabia.

So it’s understandable why some in sport wonder why they’re hammered for going to Saudi, when politicians and business leaders aren’t.

Sportswashers do come in different guises — and Ireland had one of the kings in a former furniture shop owner from Dublin.

Many believe he had become the most powerful figure in the sport worldwide.

Former allies of Kinahan have now set up other companies within boxing, and with many former MTK people on board.

There has been no attempt by boxing to address the chaotic way the sport operates.

If another Kinahan came along tomorrow, there’s nothing to stop him buying his way into a position of power.

The world has become smaller, though, for those within boxing with connections to Kinahan.

A list of over 600 names has been drawn up by the US authorities. None of those are allowed to enter America. That list includes some of the biggest names in boxing.

Without America — pro boxing’s home — where do they go when they want to attend the biggest fights? Where the money is. For now, that’s Saudi Arabia, where many of them will be in the crowd tonight.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/other-sport/boxing/boxings-dirty-washing-home-saudi-27789232
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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #21 on: June 9, 2023, 07:13:43 am »
The opening article quoted is rather pro Saudi/sportswashing in my opinion. My concern is that this sort of soft propaganda is massively more effective than the screamingly obvious stuff like the behaviour of City/PSG and the clearly paid for scribblings of someone like Martin Samuel.

No one named in the article other than good old, level headed Amanda and that cheeky scamp 'HE'. Good job the people at Newcastle are always at pains to follow the rules, even though the rules are just there to support the existing elite. Wow, all those 'elite' footballers turning up in Saudi, I'm e-mailing Sky later to see if I can buy a subscription. Honestly can't wait to see the super stars hobbling round the pitch.   ::).
« Last Edit: June 9, 2023, 07:16:38 am by jacobs chains »

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #22 on: June 9, 2023, 09:18:04 am »
I may be wrong, but I don’t necessarily buy into the concept of Sportswashing, as it were, especially not at the level of the general public. I don’t particularly think these nation states care about their reputation in the west, and if anything their involvement in sport creates greater awareness of their issues amongst the general public who are otherwise often none the wiser on these subjects. The only people they win over are those who are directly benefitting from their investment, for example whilst they may by the protection or silence of certain Man City or Newcastle fans, they draw the criticism from other circles.

My belief is that their actual intentions are to diversify their sources of income away from an over-reliance on oil, which is limited in its long term reliability as a major source of income. By increasing their hold over sport, they not only create new sources of income, they more importantly showcase their countries as tourist destinations to a wider audience. They also have started to invest in other industries fairly heavily, so whilst Sport has been impacted, it’s just one small section of their overall strategy to eventually have income streams that aren’t eventually going to be replaced.

The other advantage to their involvement in the industries they are entering is the sway that they can continue to hold over the most influential personalities in these countries, such as politicians, journalists and also elite sportsmen and women. That’s the level I think Sportswashing actually works at, and its aim is to replace their hold over the west that they currently have through their control over the supplies of oil. They’ve realised this power only lasts as long as their supplies, so they need to use the mass wealth they’ve accumulated through these products to get their fingers in other pies, so they can continue to have sway of geo-politics, because their hold over their regions and the ability to rule them in the abhorrent way that they do, relies heavily on this influence, that makes western countries turn a blind eye. Without this diversification, the oil would eventually run out and so would the tolerance towards their abuses, quickly leading to a change in power, the potential establishing of democracy, and eventually a separation of religion and politics. They can’t allow that to happen.

This is where these western governments falling under the influence of Middle Eastern money is so incredibly shortsighted. By moving towards greener sources of energy we would have been able to, as a country, be in a better position to deal with the issues caused by the current holders of power in that area, but taking their money in other areas, just ensures they will continue to hold onto power, continue to fund our enemies on a global scale and continue to abuse human rights within their territories.

That’s the real issue with Man City, PSG, Newcastle, LIV etc. as much as they ruin the sports they are involved in by destroying the sense of romance, achievement and fairness, these are minor issues compared to the extended influence these states will continue to have on a global scale through the diversification of their income streams.
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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2023, 04:54:52 pm »
.
Nice thread, Black Bull Nova  :thumbup


Some other RAWK threads on sportswashing (mainly the footy - some overlapping chat with ineptitude & psychopathy of some people running the once beautiful game etc)...


'Financial Fair Play': developments in here' thread (aka 'UEFA / Ceferin / Al Khelaifi / Sportwashing' thread) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=297245.0
'Infantino trying to sell FIFA's rights on everything to Saudis' (aka 'Infantino the sociopath' thread) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=341515.0
2022 World Cup : Qatar's True WC Legacy - news & reports on the human cost of sportswashing: www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=305953.0

Sportswashing - a general thread (2023) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=354341.0
Saudi Arabia's raid of European clubs (2023) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=354365.0
Sportswashing: 'some templates / info / fuck off with the whataboutery' post - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=354341.msg18929007#msg18929007

Chelsea : sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=352542.0
Newcastle : sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=282654.0
Manchester City (Cheats) sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=344681.0
Manchester Utd : wannabe Qatari sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=344488.0
PSG : sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=301223.0

Gerrard : sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=330779.msg18782535#msg18782535 & www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=354420.0
Fowler : sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=287273.msg18924616#msg18924616 (and ignorant whataboutery 'excuses' from him too)
Firmino : sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=325807.msg18919743#msg18919743
Fabinho : sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=340309.msg18947130#msg18947130
Henderson : sportswashed - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=329699.msg18941667#msg18941667

^ The 'Henderson thread' was understandably closed by the mods: more discussion in here; the 'Liverpool Transfer Thread - 2023' (from around Page 512 onwards):-
www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=354122.msg18944077#msg18944077

ESL - Direct Actions and Boycotts (2021) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=347588.0
Champions League changes approved (2022 thread) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=352280.0
UEFA makes CL, Europa League & Conference format changes 2024/25 | + UEFA top brass news: www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=347577.0

'FIFA & Blatter' (2014) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=314602.0
'FIFA Investigated by FBI' thread (2015) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=321490.0
Platini: Resigns (2016) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=327626 & Platini: Arrested (2019; Qatar) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=343151
'2018 & 2022 FIFA World Cups - Russia and Qatar. The Garcia Report...' thread - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267113.0
'FIFA wants a World Cup every two years' (2021) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=349176.0
'FIFA Club World Cup : a 32 team tournament : starting 2025 in the USA' (2023 thread) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=354376.0

The Golf thread: www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=323093.msg18893166#msg18893166 (Page 126; surprise lLV/PGA 'merger')

It is probably worth checking through some of the Olympics, boxing, tennis, F1, and horse racing threads too...




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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'Saudi golf takeover is blueprint for what they want to do everywhere else' - by Jonathan Liew:-

The Saudis came for golf. Will your favourite sport put up any more of a fight?

www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/jun/13/saudi-arabia-golf-pga-tour-public-investment-fund





a snippet...

'Let’s be reasonably firm about this at the outset. It doesn’t matter if you don’t like golf. You don’t have to harbour a shred of affection for the PGA Tour, which was essentially birthed in similar circumstances: an audacious power grab by the game’s top players in the 1960s. The finer details of how the new shared enterprise will work and what becomes of the beloved Milton Sewage Solutions Open at Grundle Pines should not overly detain us.

The wider significance here is in the concussive speed and devastating lack of transparency with which this transaction was conducted, the way intractable obstacles were simply bulldozed or bought away, the utter indifference to public opinion, outcry, backlash. This may be the story of how Saudi Arabia bought golf. But really, it is a blueprint for what they want to do with everything else.

There remain a couple of curiously prevalent misconceptions when it comes to Saudi Arabia’s investment in golf. The first is that it is all simply part of an elaborate public relations exercise, a sanitisation of its image, an attempt to deflect attention away from its human rights abuses, its treatment of women and LGBT people, its brutal justice system, its role in a ruinous war in Yemen. But the extreme secrecy of the LIV-PGA Tour deal exposes the fact it knows exactly what people think of it.

The circle of trust, according to a report in the New York Times, was deliberately kept as small as possible. Even most of the PGA Tour board had no idea what was happening. Does this strike you as the behaviour of a regime concerned with winning hearts and minds? The brazenness, the wall of silence, the smoke and mirrors, the decision to present this deal to the world as a fait accompli: this is all part of the performance. The projection of power matters as much as the power itself. It says to the world: we bone-sawed a journalist, we bought golf and you didn’t even know anything was happening.'

« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 08:52:09 pm by oojason »
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Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576

Offline oojason

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2023, 04:59:37 pm »

'Money talks: how Saudi Arabia’s soft power project is shaking up sport' - by Sean Ingle, on 7th June:-

Regime wants to use sport for soft power and to improve the lives of its population but has failed to wash away its human rights record

www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/jun/07/saudi-arabia-deal-pga-major-step-sportswashing-golf




^ Phil Mickelson and Greg Norman, two of the key players in the breakaway LIV Golf tour, pictured at the PIF Saudi International in Al Murooj last year


a snippet...


'Looking back, so much of it was already there on that night in Diriyah when a storm raged across the desert and Anthony Joshua made history – and £60m – by retaining his world heavyweight title belts. Not just the good, the bad and the ugly of Saudi Arabia’s sporting ambitions, but the accommodations of those willing to take the money and look the other way.

One moment from the fight in December 2019 lingers more than most: Joshua absorbing the cheers from the young crowd, many of whom were women in western clothes, before averting his gaze upwards towards the kingdom’s ruler, Mohammed bin Salman, and giving a fist-pump to the man who had made it all possible.

It felt disconcerting yet no one was really surprised. A couple of days earlier, Joshua had responded to questions about human rights by insisting the Saudis were “trying to do a good job politically” before adding: “I just came here for the boxing opportunity. I look around and everyone seems pretty happy and chilled. I’ve not seen anyone in a negative light out here, everyone seems to be having a good time.”

Perhaps Joshua was unwilling to delve any deeper for fear that those dissenting whispers would permanently stain his conscience. He was the first global sports star to display a sunny-side-up approach to the kingdom rarely seen outside its own PR campaigns, but far from the last. Only this week Bryson DeChambeau claimed the Saudis were “trying to do good for the world and showcase themselves in a light that hasn’t been seen in a while” by setting up LIV Golf.

Meanwhile, taking it all in was Joshua’s promoter, Eddie Hearn, who sported the look of a man whose lottery numbers had just come in on the same day he had hit an 11-team accumulator. “This really feels like a really big moment where everything could change,” he told me. “If they’re going to be investing this kind of money in the sport, we’ve got to be realists.”

It was a comment to make Henry Kissinger purr.'
.
Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576

Offline Koplord

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2023, 05:15:36 pm »
I may be wrong, but I don’t necessarily buy into the concept of Sportswashing, as it were, especially not at the level of the general public. I don’t particularly think these nation states care about their reputation in the west, and if anything their involvement in sport creates greater awareness of their issues amongst the general public who are otherwise often none the wiser on these subjects. The only people they win over are those who are directly benefitting from their investment, for example whilst they may by the protection or silence of certain Man City or Newcastle fans, they draw the criticism from other circles.

My belief is that their actual intentions are to diversify their sources of income away from an over-reliance on oil, which is limited in its long term reliability as a major source of income. By increasing their hold over sport, they not only create new sources of income, they more importantly showcase their countries as tourist destinations to a wider audience. They also have started to invest in other industries fairly heavily, so whilst Sport has been impacted, it’s just one small section of their overall strategy to eventually have income streams that aren’t eventually going to be replaced.

The other advantage to their involvement in the industries they are entering is the sway that they can continue to hold over the most influential personalities in these countries, such as politicians, journalists and also elite sportsmen and women. That’s the level I think Sportswashing actually works at, and its aim is to replace their hold over the west that they currently have through their control over the supplies of oil. They’ve realised this power only lasts as long as their supplies, so they need to use the mass wealth they’ve accumulated through these products to get their fingers in other pies, so they can continue to have sway of geo-politics, because their hold over their regions and the ability to rule them in the abhorrent way that they do, relies heavily on this influence, that makes western countries turn a blind eye. Without this diversification, the oil would eventually run out and so would the tolerance towards their abuses, quickly leading to a change in power, the potential establishing of democracy, and eventually a separation of religion and politics. They can’t allow that to happen.

This is where these western governments falling under the influence of Middle Eastern money is so incredibly shortsighted. By moving towards greener sources of energy we would have been able to, as a country, be in a better position to deal with the issues caused by the current holders of power in that area, but taking their money in other areas, just ensures they will continue to hold onto power, continue to fund our enemies on a global scale and continue to abuse human rights within their territories.

That’s the real issue with Man City, PSG, Newcastle, LIV etc. as much as they ruin the sports they are involved in by destroying the sense of romance, achievement and fairness, these are minor issues compared to the extended influence these states will continue to have on a global scale through the diversification of their income streams.

Nail well and truly on the head. Saudi Arabia only 80/90 years ago was a nothing country with little income apart from religious tourism and then the discovery of oil by an American changed their fortunes. In a small amount of time it became one of the richest countries in the world but oil. At one time Oil made up about 95% of it’s income (just Googled current percentage) 46%

They hold such power locally and globally because of the oil fields and they are reaching for everything that not only creates new income but also will give them a power leverage once the oil runs dry.

It is about diversification and I am not sure what can be done at this point. Countries struggle to control these people so what chance do small sports organisations have.

If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2023, 05:23:55 pm »
Been saying for a while that these regimes will not stop until they control all major world sports.
They already control FIFA and UEFA.

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2023, 05:50:59 pm »
I may be wrong, but I don’t necessarily buy into the concept of Sportswashing, as it were, especially not at the level of the general public. I don’t particularly think these nation states care about their reputation in the west, and if anything their involvement in sport creates greater awareness of their issues amongst the general public who are otherwise often none the wiser on these subjects. The only people they win over are those who are directly benefitting from their investment, for example whilst they may by the protection or silence of certain Man City or Newcastle fans, they draw the criticism from other circles.

My belief is that their actual intentions are to diversify their sources of income away from an over-reliance on oil, which is limited in its long term reliability as a major source of income. By increasing their hold over sport, they not only create new sources of income, they more importantly showcase their countries as tourist destinations to a wider audience. They also have started to invest in other industries fairly heavily, so whilst Sport has been impacted, it’s just one small section of their overall strategy to eventually have income streams that aren’t eventually going to be replaced.

The other advantage to their involvement in the industries they are entering is the sway that they can continue to hold over the most influential personalities in these countries, such as politicians, journalists and also elite sportsmen and women. That’s the level I think Sportswashing actually works at, and its aim is to replace their hold over the west that they currently have through their control over the supplies of oil. They’ve realised this power only lasts as long as their supplies, so they need to use the mass wealth they’ve accumulated through these products to get their fingers in other pies, so they can continue to have sway of geo-politics, because their hold over their regions and the ability to rule them in the abhorrent way that they do, relies heavily on this influence, that makes western countries turn a blind eye. Without this diversification, the oil would eventually run out and so would the tolerance towards their abuses, quickly leading to a change in power, the potential establishing of democracy, and eventually a separation of religion and politics. They can’t allow that to happen.

This is where these western governments falling under the influence of Middle Eastern money is so incredibly shortsighted. By moving towards greener sources of energy we would have been able to, as a country, be in a better position to deal with the issues caused by the current holders of power in that area, but taking their money in other areas, just ensures they will continue to hold onto power, continue to fund our enemies on a global scale and continue to abuse human rights within their territories.

That’s the real issue with Man City, PSG, Newcastle, LIV etc. as much as they ruin the sports they are involved in by destroying the sense of romance, achievement and fairness, these are minor issues compared to the extended influence these states will continue to have on a global scale through the diversification of their income streams.
Good post and I’m coming round to that point-of-view as well.  We’re getting it wrong thinking about this in terms of reputation-laundering, when really the heart of it is an attempt to buy our culture.  It feels weird and degrading to me – how come, like, Newcastle is now pro-Saudi just because Amanda Staveley says so? – but I’m not convinced it looks like that from abroad.  When you see something like the IPL on tv the audiences there seem perfectly happy to see the best players hitting big shots while wearing cricket-type gear, while people shout and wave flags.  Why wouldn’t that be the case for football - the stuff we think is important, do they think it matters, do they even really know or care what it is?  Man City might look like a robot dog to us, but for all I know in the rest of the world there’s no difference between last weekend and us winning it in 2019.  I keep thinking of Formula One and how distant it is now from the ghosts that built it, yet on and on it goes.

What are the ‘other industries’ that they’re buying up btw?  I wasn’t aware this was a wider thing, beyond a few influencer types who seem to have a mutual attraction with Dubai for some reason.

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2023, 05:52:41 pm »
A really good podcast which I urge people to listen to, I have listed the people taking part in the discussion. What comes across depressingly is the helplessness that they feel. Kathryn Fletcher is a season ticket holder at United who has started a campaign against Qatari ownership. She made the very fair point how little support they are getting from local politicians which is just appalling. It appears most of the politicians are on the Qatari board already. This is a Labour council for fuck's sake. It's why fans of other clubs need to put rivalry aside and support those who are attempting to fight these sort of ownerships. At the end of the day no club is safe including our own.

https://t.co/KkqWZHwPrw

Nic McGeehan - FairSquare – Human Rights Research and Advocacy

Kathryn Fletcher - United Against Sportswashing

Ed Barker - No Question About That

John Hird - NUFC Fans Against Sportswashing

Andrew Page - NUFC Fans Against Sportswashing
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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2023, 05:55:07 pm »
Been saying for a while that these regimes will not stop until they control all major world sports.
They already control FIFA and UEFA.

Indeed.

They aren't sportswashing, they are increasing their global (soft) power and influence.

It's not about cleansing their image.

In a geo political sense, the Saudis are aligning themselves more with China and Russia now too.

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2023, 06:02:14 pm »
I think its a very Western view to try and reduce sportswashing down to a business plan. Particularly in sports where such businesses frequently operate at a loss and where only playing and managing staff make any kind of wealth.

More to the point, how does spending money to win trophies diversify their economy and make income streams? The businesses themselves are the equivalent of an SME. Liverpool FC, one of the top ten biggest clubs in the world has a revenue of 1/2 a billion a year and employs less than a 1000 people. That is peanuts. In contrast Mercedez employs 170,000 people and has a turnover of 150bn.

How would people in UAE benefit from having control over a European football team? It would mean no new jobs in their country, pathetic profit streams and hegemony only maintained by capital flows the opposite way.

I have heard Gabrielle Marcotti talk about the idea of this being some sort of buysiness plan, but never explaining how sucha  plan would work.

I think the problem is people think 'soft power' is about making a regime cheery and likable. But to me it is akin to what the Nazis did in the 1936 Olympics. The cost wasn't an issue. The plan wasn't to make a profit. The real purpose was propaganda, to promote the greeatness of Germany, not to make them appear more likable.

Similarly, the UAE is using sports as a means of profile raising, putting it front and centre for very little cost. The latter point is crucial. UAE GDP is 415 bn dollars annually. It has a population of 9 million. For comparison purposes, Ireland has a population of 5 million, and a GDP of 500bn dollars. The UK has a population of approx 67 million and GDP of 3.3 trn dollars.   

In other words, while UAE has control over a very important resource, in pure money terms its not that well off. Hell, it's poorer than ireland, per capita is half that of Ireland (Saudi is a quarter of ROI). They can't invest in tech or manufacturing or any of those areas, they will never scale up to be profitable and will take decades to establish an appropriate base/business culture. They are trying that, nonetheless, planning for when the oil runs out.

In the meantime, what they can do for very little money, is make big waves geopolitically, drawing attention to themselves and presenting an image of power and prestige that far outstrips the actuality of their state. Everyone now has an image of an oil rich, successful nation, powerful, impactful and, most importantly, influential. And what has it cost them? a billion or so on transfers? A couple of million on lawyers? Again, peanuts.

The fact is, sports are way more influential than the money involved with them would suggest. For a mickey mouse amount of money for a state all anyone has spoken about for the last decade is the UAE, it's wealth, power, influence. What no one has spoken about is how it's actually a poor country with a mindlessly wealth but tiny elite. It's in every paper every day, on TV, on radio, podcasts, forums etc. Christ any country would give a bn for that kind of exposure and coverage. They don't care if they are liked, but they do care if they are respected.

It  doesn't make any sense as a state led business plan, it's too small scale and unprofitable. But a s a piece of propaganda it is massively cheap and effective.
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Offline lfc_col

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2023, 06:39:55 pm »
Been saying for a while that these regimes will not stop until they control all major world sports.
They already control FIFA and UEFA.

How mad a lot of people are just turning a blind eye to it all
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Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2023, 08:00:02 pm »
How mad a lot of people are just turning a blind eye to it all
not sure turning a blind eye is the right word, not bothered where the money is coming from would be more appropriate I think
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2023, 01:39:18 pm »
Good post and I’m coming round to that point-of-view as well.  We’re getting it wrong thinking about this in terms of reputation-laundering, when really the heart of it is an attempt to buy our culture.  It feels weird and degrading to me – how come, like, Newcastle is now pro-Saudi just because Amanda Staveley says so? – but I’m not convinced it looks like that from abroad.  When you see something like the IPL on tv the audiences there seem perfectly happy to see the best players hitting big shots while wearing cricket-type gear, while people shout and wave flags.  Why wouldn’t that be the case for football - the stuff we think is important, do they think it matters, do they even really know or care what it is?  Man City might look like a robot dog to us, but for all I know in the rest of the world there’s no difference between last weekend and us winning it in 2019.  I keep thinking of Formula One and how distant it is now from the ghosts that built it, yet on and on it goes.

What are the ‘other industries’ that they’re buying up btw?  I wasn’t aware this was a wider thing, beyond a few influencer types who seem to have a mutual attraction with Dubai for some reason.

They had been investing in recent years in Uber and Meta, plus Activision, Disney, Bank of America, Credit Suisse. They now own stakes in BP, EA, Nintendo, Boeing, McLaren, the list goes on. They’re also very closely linked to the likes of BlackRock
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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2023, 08:31:30 pm »
A good summary

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-fans-too-divided-stop-saudi-pif-qatar-man-utd-sportswashing

“We interrupt your oil state flag-shagging, transfer rumour doom-surfing and scrutiny-shifting finger-pointing to bring you a news flash: Football is fucked. Proper fucked.“
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2023, 10:32:49 am »
N'Golo Kante retires from first class football at the age of 32 and takes up a well paid media role in Saudi Arabia
aarf, aarf, aarf.

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2023, 10:46:03 am »
What is most annoying is that most football lovers in this country (and I suspect wider as well) don't really enjoy exhibition football, you might call it Harlaam Globetrotters type football. All the big players playing meaningless games that equate to friendlies in terms of their impact. LFC fans watch friendlies and testimonials as an aside to the main course and most would give up if they ever became the main course.


That's part of the problem that those with big money don't see, not just in the middle east, it's a common problem with the rich. They are used to having what they want when they want it. They see something that others like and is popular and want it for themselves. The very act of taking it destroys the very thing itself (at least in the eyes of those who traditionally watch it)


Yes, there will be new supporters in other countries who will digest the product without question but without doubt the product will cease to be what it previously was and ultimtately it will die (or at least live on in a zombie form)


The rich really do not have taste at all, they want Ancient Rome or classic european, they get kitsch





aarf, aarf, aarf.

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2023, 11:07:52 am »
Yep, they misunderstand what it is, that it involves a whole culture and the game is just the part that pokes above the surface.  They can pay Ronaldo and Benzema to wear striped jerseys and run around a stadium in front of a flag-waving audience – and that will look a lot like the thing that they’ve been coveting from afar.  There’ll probably be lots of people who can’t tell the difference.  But to anyone here it’s massively missing the point and that should be obvious.  The actual thing is kind of like a journey that you go on with on the all other fans, and in a way the game itself is almost besides the point, it’s more like a series of mileposts by which you measure the route, or the inns that you stay in overnight.  But it’s the route that’s the thing, not Ronaldo lashing in a goal a game.

That’s why I still feel some sympathy for the City fans who’ve felt they had to stick with it.  They’ve been given the players and the jerseys and the flags, and a private jet to get to the game instead of doing the journey, and they get put up in a new hotel that the owners built for them, and everything looks much like it would if it was the old City winning all that stuff — only there’s something not quite right about it, it feels like something different and they can’t quite put their finger on what it is.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 11:11:41 am by Iska »

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Sportwashing-A general thread
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2023, 12:33:50 pm »

Gary Neville

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65956434


Says the man who helped Qatar sportswash the world cup, dickhead
aarf, aarf, aarf.