Topic: Struggling with depression

[Son of Spion]

Cheers Son of Spion. I’ll definitely look into the holistic approach.

You're welcome, Evie.

When I talk of a holistic approach I just mean taking onboard and using anything that we find helpful to us personally. I noticed via dealing with my own issues that my answers don't necessarily resonate with others who have similar issues. We're all different and respond to different things. What helps you, might not help me, and vice versa.

No theraputic approach has ever been proven to be more effective than the rest. They are all only theories. I know people who have hated CBT and others who have thrived through it. It's horses for courses, as we say. We just have to see what does and doesn't help us personally. Use what helps. Lose what doesn't.

I've picked up all manner of stuff useful to me from different types of therapy, bits of information, parts of mental health training I've done, experience, trial and error. Books, online stuff about different issues. So all I'm suggesting is taking whatever helps you from wherever you find it.

I see you might be changing your GP. You won't be the first to do so in order to get the support you feel you need. I hope things go well and you find what you're looking for. I used to have an amazingly supportive GP. Unfortunately for me she's now retired. GPs like that are priceless.

Take care, eh.

[Kenny's Jacket]

It's interesting you mention grieving for a past life. This is something I noticed when counselling people....

Top post again SOS

The values thing can be hard to grasp so Ill give an example that may help others.

Id spent a large part of life working abroad, it had been my ambition since my teens.  I was waiting for lockdown to end to take up a job in Vietnam when I had my stroke that effectively ended my life

I was crying about it to my therapist.
I had already told her that as long as my Mam is alive I wont kill myself.

We quickly worked out that the positive of not being abroad is spending more time here.
She lives in my house now. previously she had only ever lived in rented accommodation and more importantly we go to a restaurant every Thursday. The silver lining to an awful cloud is something to

The value I gave to the therapist was looking after my family and she turned it round into taking the positives of being here with them; and Jurgens tricky reds of course.




 

[Son of Spion]

That's the thing with values, KJ. They cover everything we do. Your example is a massive one. A value employed in a truly life-changing situation.

Others can be simple, basic, yet life changing in their own small way. Something like just valuing and participating in connecting with nature, for example. I do that by taking walks on beaches or along the canal in the countryside. Sometimes fishing too. It helps clear my head and it feels good.

[damomad]

If we spend a little time on this we can work out who and what we are based on the things and traits we value. Then, we set out to live by those values. Rather than waiting until things become easy (do they ever just become easy on their own?) we do what we value, even though it's not always easy. Values-based living is rewarding in itself. Your life becomes enriched by what you do.

All great stuff SoS as usual, just want to add how easy it is to slip into not doing this and waiting for a disaster to happen before changing anything.

Most people (myself included!) have an idea of how they should be living and what values they should be living by but they distract themselves until certain life events occur. Grin and bear it so to speak and then the world falls apart and you are forced to change what you have been doing.

Maybe this is something therapy or counselling could help an individual clarify their values and help them to gain clarity on how to start living by them before disaster strikes.

[Son of Spion]

All great stuff SoS as usual, just want to add how easy it is to slip into not doing this and waiting for a disaster to happen before changing anything.

Most people (myself included!) have an idea of how they should be living and what values they should be living by but they distract themselves until certain life events occur. Grin and bear it so to speak and then the world falls apart and you are forced to change what you have been doing.

Maybe this is something therapy or counselling could help an individual clarify their values and help them to gain clarity on how to start living by them before disaster strikes.

Yes, it's very easy to be reactive rather than proactive. We often tend to do do what's easiest, not what's best. Think the Pleasure Principle here. The instinctive drive we have to seek pleasure and avoid pain. We want what feels nice, not what feels uncomfortable. Unfortunately, personal growth tends to happen in the discomfort zone, not the comfort zone, so if we aren't prepared to accept some discomfort in the pursuit of our goals and fulfillment of our values, we can become stuck and stagnate.

The ironic thing being that the avoidance of present discomfort often results in much more pain further down the line. We can let things build up until we break down. Then, there is no choice other than to act.

For a lot of us, the discomfort of making valued change can feel bigger than the discomfort of stagnation. That's when we get stuck.

It can be difficult to drag ourselves out of the malaise, but it's worth it. We all have 24 hours in each day. We can choose who and what we want to be in those hours. That's something no one can take away from us. It's in our own hands. Easy? Of course not. Worth it? Most definitely.

[Black Bull Nova]

Yes, it's very easy to be reactive rather than proactive. We often tend to do do what's easiest, not what's best. Think the Pleasure Principle here. The instinctive drive we have to seek pleasure and avoid pain. We want what feels nice, not what feels uncomfortable. Unfortunately, personal growth tends to happen in the discomfort zone, not the comfort zone, so if we aren't prepared to accept some discomfort in the pursuit of our goals and fulfillment of our values, we can become stuck and stagnate.

The ironic thing being that the avoidance of present discomfort often results in much more pain further down the line. We can let things build up until we break down. Then, there is no choice other than to act.

For a lot of us, the discomfort of making valued change can feel bigger than the discomfort of stagnation. That's when we get stuck.

It can be difficult to drag ourselves out of the malaise, but it's worth it. We all have 24 hours in each day. We can choose who and what we want to be in those hours. That's something no one can take away from us. It's in our own hands. Easy? Of course not. Worth it? Most definitely.

Some interesting posts in here recently, I know what people mean about life changes and how you can lose things, retiring, death of friends or family, moving house or area, changing jobs, all sorts of things mean your goalposts shift. All of them might be opportunities if you change your persective and how you view them, even when they don't work out or go badly. Even the really bad ones. The hard ones are those you cannot shut out of your head, even respite is not possible. That respite is your positive opportunity, without it, it's hard.
Displacement helps, that's an age old lesson. If you cannot shift your thinking at all (waking time) or you are in permament pain that's the real tough one but remember if change has caused your problems then change can help with them as well as long as you see how it can and don't despair that it can happen.

[ianburns252]

I've been reading this thread more recently and so much of it speaks to how I have felt, not just over the last 5-10 years but through my life.

One thing which I have noticed more (and can see the alignment of it with times of high stress/anxiety/depression) is that I am developing more and more of a temper and becoming far less careful with what is say - unfortunately this has started coming out at work at times. Now don't get me wrong, if someone has managed to give me an audit file with only half of the accounts data there I am within my rights to be unimpressed but I also need to be able to take a step back, breathe, and then deal with it rather than at times being a bit too direct.

The thing I get on myself with the most is that I know logically the steps to take, the methods to use, and the choices to make in order to be happier, healthier, more with it but it feels like a very slow burn and feels like I am losing the support structure around me.

Over the last 3 or 4 years I have lost a few very close friends to what amount to petty reasons - now most of these friends, if looked at objectively, were not great influences and it was always in the aftermath of them going through something huge, me providing a support structure, and then them finding a new relationship and no longer needing me so getting tossed aside a bit.

This has also coincided with me changing a lot in terms of no longer being a rigid with plans (I used to try and plan as far in advance as possible, would stick to an early to bed/ early to rise approach as best I could, even used to live quite a "quiet" or "simple" life in a way) but have fallen in with a "wilder" crowd and become far more up for a party and that.

Not sure to an extent what I am trying to say here other than to get this off my chest in a way and kind of own the problems that I have created.

Reading (I think) Kenny's comments about almost living with grief for a life once lived - looking back I can see so many times where I should have been happier with my life and how things were but always demanded more, always wasn't good enough, always someone doing better than me who I have to compete with.

I find it really hard to connect with people outside of professional context (that I do find easier because of the common purpose) especially due to struggling to "read the room" at times or pick up on social cues added to having a nagging voice in my head from when I was young which due to bullying (physical and mental) and there being times of my parents comparing me to friends and peers which created a "you are not good enough for anyone" mentality and so I feel the need to almost put on a character to entertain.

Really need to focus on kind of finding myself again, deciding who I want to be, and taking positive steps towards that as recently things like suicidal ideation have been creeping in (how easy would it be to jump in front of a train for example but would never do it as I keep thinking about the people who would see it and how it'd impact them) .

The one big thing I have tried to do is use my experiences with suicide attempts and depression in general to help others by at my old firm creating a mental health committee and sharing my experiences and at my current firm joining the D&I committee and similarly getting involved in sharing my story, trying to help others etc
All a bit rambling really but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

You really find out who your real friends are when your struggling with depression

No one!

[damomad]

If you work in audit, it goes without saying it’s a high stress environment. If you are at the stage of reviewing files, you are clearly a skilled accountant (from one to another ). Bit of perspective needed to stop being so hard on yourself, you’ve grafted hard and are more successful compared to most.

Maybe to destress you need plenty of things to do outside of work so as not to keep you so focused on one area. If you have some sort of career issue, you’ll also have other things to fall back on.

Same goes for the support structure, if friendships are breaking down (which is part of adulthood unfortunately) it may take a bit of extra effort nurturing worthwhile relationships and finding the people who share the same values as you. Only you know if the partying and current friend group is detrimental to anything else you are trying to achieve but you are who you surround yourself with.

The always wanting more and not being happier with past achievements, I think you are wired the way you are in some ways and it’s not going to change. Hopefully not a silly example but I was walking around the park earlier, sun shining down through the trees, first time it hasn’t rained in forever. Every day for the past month I’ve been wishing for a bit of sunlight, thinking that would make everything better and I’d be ecstatic. The whole time I was thinking why can’t I enjoy this more than I am? All these other thoughts going through my head of what may or may not happen tomorrow, not one thought about the sun.

It’s a simple example but I find I tend to be a terrible judge of thinking what will make me happy. Sometimes it’s the journey to that thing, the anticipation that keeps me going, that I get my kicks out of. When it’s achieved, I’m already thinking what’s next? That tends to go for life and football seasons!

Good on you for introducing the committee at work, I find the more you explain and try and articulate problems the clearer they become for yourself and you may get some insightful perspectives from others.

[Peabee]

It’s really commendable what you’ve done setting up a mental health committee at work. I wish the firms I worked for in the past had such a committee. You’re an absolute star for doing that.

Re the suicide ideation, I’m in a similar position. I can be walking to the supermarket, then I’ll look at the size and speed of a truck passing me, and wonder whether stepping in front of it would be a quick way to go.
It’s scary, I agree, but it’s good to talk about it. I’ve fought against suicidal thoughts for years. If you ever need to chat, drop me a PM.

[Son of Spion]

I've been reading this thread more recently and so much of it speaks to how I have felt, not just over the last 5-10 years but through my life.

One thing which I have noticed more (and can see the alignment of it with times of high stress/anxiety/depression) is that I am developing more and more of a temper and becoming far less careful with what is say - unfortunately this has started coming out at work at times. Now don't get me wrong, if someone has managed to give me an audit file with only half of the accounts data there I am within my rights to be unimpressed but I also need to be able to take a step back, breathe, and then deal with it rather than at times being a bit too direct.

The thing I get on myself with the most is that I know logically the steps to take, the methods to use, and the choices to make in order to be happier, healthier, more with it but it feels like a very slow burn and feels like I am losing the support structure around me.

Over the last 3 or 4 years I have lost a few very close friends to what amount to petty reasons - now most of these friends, if looked at objectively, were not great influences and it was always in the aftermath of them going through something huge, me providing a support structure, and then them finding a new relationship and no longer needing me so getting tossed aside a bit.

This has also coincided with me changing a lot in terms of no longer being a rigid with plans (I used to try and plan as far in advance as possible, would stick to an early to bed/ early to rise approach as best I could, even used to live quite a "quiet" or "simple" life in a way) but have fallen in with a "wilder" crowd and become far more up for a party and that.

Not sure to an extent what I am trying to say here other than to get this off my chest in a way and kind of own the problems that I have created.

Reading (I think) Kenny's comments about almost living with grief for a life once lived - looking back I can see so many times where I should have been happier with my life and how things were but always demanded more, always wasn't good enough, always someone doing better than me who I have to compete with.

I find it really hard to connect with people outside of professional context (that I do find easier because of the common purpose) especially due to struggling to "read the room" at times or pick up on social cues added to having a nagging voice in my head from when I was young which due to bullying (physical and mental) and there being times of my parents comparing me to friends and peers which created a "you are not good enough for anyone" mentality and so I feel the need to almost put on a character to entertain.

Really need to focus on kind of finding myself again, deciding who I want to be, and taking positive steps towards that as recently things like suicidal ideation have been creeping in (how easy would it be to jump in front of a train for example but would never do it as I keep thinking about the people who would see it and how it'd impact them) .

The one big thing I have tried to do is use my experiences with suicide attempts and depression in general to help others by at my old firm creating a mental health committee and sharing my experiences and at my current firm joining the D&I committee and similarly getting involved in sharing my story, trying to help others etc
All a bit rambling really but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

There's an awful lot in your post to pick over but, essentially, you've answered your own question with the bit in bold. Our lives and our minds are crammed with so much clutter, so stripping things back to basics often helps. We all have a life situation to deal with. The questions are, given my life circumstances, who am I? How do I want to be? What do I believe in? What do I value? What is working for me and what isn't?

When we look at those basics and come up with our answers we automatically come up with a path to travel. A path we value travelling too.

Regarding the suicidal thoughts. To a degree some are actually quite normal. I often look at the white lines on the road when I'm driving and become acutely aware that if I just turn my wheel to the right and cross them I could have a head-on and all my problems would be over. Same with standing in tall buildings. But these aren't the same as genuinely suicidal periods I've had in my life.

Sometimes our minds just need the security of knowing we have an escape route, even if we would never seriously consider using it. That can feel like a claw-back of some power and control at a time we maybe feel vulnerable.

I can empathise with how negative comparison when young can impact. I grew up being negatively compared with my Dad's mates sons, who were 'always doing better than I was', or so I was told. No matter what I did in my young life, my Nan would compare negatively with other people she knew of a similar age. Later, when I was an outreach care worker looking after the elderly and/or the disabled, she'd go on how I should have been a white collar worker instead, sat in an office.

So yes, I grew up with my confidence and self esteem in minus figures, spending a lifetime trying to recover and feel ok in my own skin. I'm getting on for 61 now, and have only realised in recent years that I'm finally ok with who I am.

The world tells us who and what we should be. Peers tell us who we should be. Advertisers tell us who we should be. Parents tell us. Local culture tells us. We are bombarded with a billion mixed, confusing and contradictory messages, so it's no wonder we can get lost in it all. That's why we have to do exactly what you said yourself there, in bold. That's what clears the clutter and opens up our path.

Like you, I never felt good enough. Thing is though, everyone's expectations differ. We can never please everyone. Force yourselves to be the 'perfect' a partner might like and you might be your mates 'dickhead'. Force yourself to be the 'perfect' your employers might want and you could become the dad his kids and partner never sees and end up with a broken relationship.

In short, we can't please everyone and we can't be perfect. All we can do is find ourselves and be that. Those who don't like it, don't matter. Those who like you will be liking the real you. A lot of wheat can be sorted from the chaff in our lives then.

Support around us? Well support is a fantastic thing. I encourage anyone to access support that is available. But, and I've considered this long and very hard over the years, ultimately I believe we can only rely on ourselves. When push comes to shove, it's only us that can really make the necessary changes and do the work. Any help we get along the way is most welcome, but the absolute bottom line is the only person we can 100% rely on is ourselves.

Sudden Death Draft Loser made a post a few replies up about how you really find out who your friends are when you are depressed, then suggested "no one." To be honest, that sounds negative and defeatist, but I also get it 100% too.

My partner is also a counsellor. One of my best friends is a life coach. Those I've kept in my life are good, caring and supportive people. Thing is though, when I'm in a depression and riddled with anxiety, I feel completely alone. I realised that even with all that around me, I needed to do it myself. That's no bad thing either. They're still supportive, but I do my own heavy lifting so as not to over burden them. Let's face it, they have their own lives and their own issues to negotiate through too. Learning to do it myself and to rely on myself as much as possible has actually been self validating and boosted my confidence and self belief.

Even when you are counselling someone, you aren't doing their work for them. You are helping them find ways of doing it for themselves. It sort of works on the principle that if you give a person a fish you feed them for a day. But if you teach them how to fish, they feed themselves for life.

So, ultimately, we have to do it ourselves. Of course, take support if and when it's there, but don't rely on others to pull us through.

Helping others through your own experience is a wonderful thing you are doing.

Fantastic. * Doffs hat*

[ianburns252]

Really appreciate what all 3 of you say and threads like this where you can speak without judgement are a great way to put things into a tangible form which tends to help to process it.

The point by Damomad about the way friendships change and tend to slip away is entirely logical and I think is right - I guess for me, because I have struggled a lot to build friendships when I was younger I have taken those formed as an adult to mean that much more to me so when they do expire for whatever reason it hits a bit harder; for example I pretty much uprooted and significantly reduced contact with and eventually stopped near all contact with people I knew at school when I went off to uni - not by design but I was determined to go all in on making the most of the experience but they all stayed very close to Crosby and kept anchored to that same "school vibe" so it never really hurt as much.

It almost feels good, Peabee, to hear you say that about it not being uncommon - that sounds horrible when I write it that I am taking comfort in your discomfort but it knowing that it is more normal than I think it is which helps me process it better.

Spion - the work you put into this thread, and in your job, is unbelievable and it is clear the difference it makes to so many. I think you are right than no amount of counselling can overcome a mind determined not to work on things themselves. I've often likened it to get a PT - if you want to train your body you get a PT/coach and you have to give everything to it to ensure results. Well this is just fitness training for your mind - making it stronger, more resilient, able to "lift" more and a good counsellor can help with that but only if you put the effort back in.

Support comes in many different forms too I guess - like I miss being in relationships and having that immediate level of it but nowhere near as much as I miss the support of my old 11s team which amounted to "Ian we've got training in half an hour, get a fucking move on" as it was their way of saying to come and do something I enjoy so would break me out of a funk that they didn't even have to know I was in. Being the organiser in the squad also allowed me to focus my mental energy on planning and getting stuff in the diary which mean I was always looking forward to something.

Made the decision recently to leave London and move back up north which I think is going to help - I've loved the time I've spent down here, it has been class for the career, had some great experiences, met some cool people, but it isn't home. Was always part of my career/life map to go and take London on but I'm fortunate to be able to have my cake and eat it in a way as my firm operates a work from anyway at anytime policy (which I seem to take to mean work from my desk all the time) so going to try just travelling down for a couple of days every fortnight and making the most of being up nearer to family and friends to get back on an even keel

[John C]

Jim has posted this on Linkedin and is happy for it to be shared:-



Growing up as I did in the 1970s, I've fond memories of the popular TV show M*A*S*H, about a US Army field hospital during the Korean War – what today you might call a "dramedy". It had many hilarious, bitter/sweet moments and heaps of pathos. The theme tune, some might recall, was a song – "Suicide is painless." Today marks the 20th anniversary of the World Health Organization's 'World Suicide Prevention Day': I promise anyone reading that suicide is far from painless!

Some might say, "At least it ends the pain of the person committing it!", a sentiment roundly rejected by my transpersonal psychotherapist who coached me through the grief of my father's suicide 2 years ago. So there's a metaphysical argument that suicide isn't a solution for anyone's pain.

When I sought out the Buddhist viewpoint on this topic, I was assured there's no karmic retribution for the soul, rather there are lessons on all sides to be learnt when someone exercises choice over the destiny of their physical form. I can get on board with that.

However, what's proven hardest to deal with in 2 years is the idea that, far from answering all the questions, suicide actually creates more questions than it answers – not least when, 20 years ago, my stepbrother Richie also hanged himself. To this day nobody seems to know why!

At least with my father, I can more or less accurately speculate over why, in the wider sense. Even then, questions still arise, e.g., "Why then? Why in that way? Why there?"

My mother called suicide, "the ultimate f*ck you, because it has no response". I understand why she says that, yet part of me believes this partly due to the hurt she saw caused by Richie's decision, but also because she could see how hurt I was by my father's – so she's protecting those she loves.

What I can do is empathise with someone suffering that much that they think it's the only logical route to take. I try to understand the depth of pain when they're in that state of mind. I've been there too, albeit for different reasons – I just never followed through with it.

Maybe I'm stubborn, tenacious, or (as my half-sister says) "resourceful". I'd like to think that part of the reason I've never succumbed to those thoughts is because I've an amazing network of friends whom I know will offer support, love, compassion, reality-checks, toughness if needed. Crucially, they'll listen and try to understand – so that's what I do to myself (and to anyone else I know is struggling).

On World Suicide Prevention Day, I know it takes courage to speak up, sure, yet you'll be surprised at how many people will be willing to listen to you share your pain and offer the compassion you might require to help you get back in touch with yourself and heal the wounds behind the emotions you feel.

Back to M*A*S*H. Suicide is painful. It brings on many changes. You can take or leave it if you please, but those left behind might have questions you can't answer 😢.

Talk. I'll listen.

Love & light 🤍

[reddebs]

Bless him 😥

Take care Jim sending you big love ❤️

[Terry de Niro]

Bless him 😥

Take care Jim sending you big love ❤️

Yeah.
Take care Jimbo 

[God's Left Peg]

It's interesting you mention grieving for a past life. This is something I noticed when counselling people over time. So many issues people have can be traced back to grief and loss. It comes up time and again. Thing is, when we think of grief we automatically think of bereavement, but the reality is that we grieve over many other things too.

I actually used to avoid working with bereavement because it triggered so much inside me. But as I counselled people with other presenting issues it became clear that grief and loss were front and centre there too, despite there being no bereavement. In short, you simply have to work with grief and loss. It cannot be avoided.

Examples can be loss of health. As I know you are fully aware yourself, a change in health status can change your life permanently. A person's world and how they experience that world can change overnight. This can lead to grieving for the old, now lost world you had, whilst trying to come to terms with your new reality.

For others it can be the loss of a relationship. We invest so much of ourselves in our relationships, and if that relationship breaks down it can be like losing half of who we are. We might grieve that loss for a long time.

Jobs/careers can almost define some people. They put everything into them and much of their confidence and self esteem is wrapped up in them. But what happens if suddenly made redundant or the business fails? Their whole sense of self might collapse. So, again, the issue comes down to loss.

Some males even grieve the loss of their hair. Others, their sex drive, as do some females. Parents might also grieve the perceived loss of their children as they grow up and move out of the family home. Grief and loss is everywhere, unfortunately.

Regarding values, my personal favourite therapy is centered on values-based living. Thing is, when we are down and depressed we often focus on what we can't do rather than what we can do. We can also stop doing the things that actually enrich our lives.

Our values are a good place to start when we look to claw our lives back. It can be as simple as grabbing a pen and paper then listing the things we care about in life. What do we value doing? How do we value being? If we find ourselves drawing a blank, look at what we like and respect in others. Look for positive traits to adopt.

If we spend a little time on this we can work out who and what we are based on the things and traits we value. Then, we set out to live by those values. Rather than waiting until things become easy (do they ever just become easy on their own?) we do what we value, even though it's not always easy. Values-based living is rewarding in itself. Your life becomes enriched by what you do.

Values cover anything and everything that matters to you. Big things, small things. It doesn't matter. It's just about working out where you stand on aspects of your life, then putting focus on the things that enrich your life and move you forward.

Reminds me of Mike Tyson's autobiography. I'm paraphrasing here, but he wrote that when he was younger that he thought life was about acquiring things - titles, money etc. But that he then realised its about loss and how we manage that. Whatever people think of him as a person, it is a cracking read.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Jim has posted

Thanks for sharing John
Glad he’s ok

[Son of Spion]

I was only wondering how Jim was doing yesterday. Hopefully we see him back on here if/when he's ready.

All the best, Jim. 

[Son of Spion]

Reminds me of Mike Tyson's autobiography. I'm paraphrasing here, but he wrote that when he was younger that he thought life was about acquiring things - titles, money etc. But that he then realised its about loss and how we manage that. Whatever people think of him as a person, it is a cracking read.

I've not read his book, but he's definitely correct in what he says there.

[Black Bull Nova]

Agree with every word, suicide can leave a legacy that goes through generations. I think male suicide is particulary different, partly because it is more common but also it often happens without warning, not as a call for help but a private, lonely decision taken without warning or explanation. I saw this explained (to a degree anyway) by a psychologist who suggested that males often see 'violence' as a solution to problems, violence to the self ends whatever challenges or pain or trap someone is in. Threats of suicide are more common in females but actual suicides are more common in males. I know that is a generalisation (I have a female suicide in my family) but it does demonstrate that men often just go straight there without seeking help. Pride, shame, loneliness, despair....there's something in the male psyche that misses out on any call for help and leaves behind others who have no explanation.

Even when men talk I don't think they fully express their feelings and often not even those they regard as their best friends can be of use (possibly they are too close).
Anyway
I posted this earlier

James's Place (Liverpool and London) although I am aware the Liverpool service is not restricted to the city itself.
free, life-saving treatment to suicidal men in Liverpool & London

https://www.jamesplace.org.uk/


teams work 9:30am-5:30pm Monday-Friday (exc. Bank Holidays).                                  

James’ Place Liverpool:

liverpool@jamesplace.org.uk

0151 303 5757


50 Catharine St, Liverpool L8 7NG
James’ Place London:



london@jamesplace.org.uk
20 Bunhill Row, London EC1Y 8LP


020 3488 8404

[AndyInVA]

It's interesting you mention grieving for a past life. This is something I noticed when counselling people over time. So many issues people have can be traced back to grief and loss. It comes up time and again. Thing is, when we think of grief we automatically think of bereavement, but the reality is that we grieve over many other things too.

This is a really interesting thought. I know that I feel down because I don't have the friends or social life I had 20 years ago. Now I feel lonely and seperated from that lifestyle.

[ToneLa]

I would say you grieve any loss. It does not matter if it is a person, situation, job, pet, or anything.

Loss is loss, and the heart wants what the heart wants.

In better moments, I prefer to think of grieving not as something sad; but as evidence of the love that was once there. You must have had something there, in order to miss it.

I have sometimes felt down about possibitilies, but those are the cruelest: "what if", I have banned from my thoughts. Pray I stick to it. Rarely does it conjur anything worthwhile.

Things are the way they are. And I have to say, today, feeling it though I am, that black dawg gnawing at my jeans, I still find a joy in how things fall.

My heart goes out to anyone needing it at this time. I've been there. I live there, frankly. Yeah, it hurts. But it means something.

Take care all

[Kenny's Jacket]

I would say you grieve any loss. It does not matter if it is a person, situation, job, pet, or anything.

Loss is loss, and the heart wants what the heart wants.

In better moments, I prefer to think of grieving not as something sad; but as evidence of the love that was once there. You must have had something there, in order to miss it.

I have sometimes felt down about possibitilies, but those are the cruelest: "what if", I have banned from my thoughts. Pray I stick to it. Rarely does it conjur anything worthwhile.

Things are the way they are. And I have to say, today, feeling it though I am, that black dawg gnawing at my jeans, I still find a joy in how things fall.

My heart goes out to anyone needing it at this time. I've been there. I live there, frankly. Yeah, it hurts. But it means something.

Take care all

How do you ban thoughts mate, Im desperate to be able to do this

[ToneLa]

Umm, it's fuckin hard. The honesty part of it

Usually I think something out. In full. Really consider it, what it means. I write a lot down for example. Ihavea "trauma diary". It's shocking reading back sometimes.... If you have a fear, confront it sort of thing. There are few things worse than living in fear to me. And biologically, we are essentially animals, so an important thing for me is to NOT castigate myself that thinking on this subject is "wrong"; it isn't, if you're able, it's the exact opposite.

i can "ban" a thought when I'm confident I've explored it. The ins, the outs, the upsides, the downsides, but most importantly the worst case scenario.

It's horrible, yknow, when you've got something hanging over you. I had a problem in work lately, nothing big, just had to "come out" about my mental health, and I took an afternoon and went through all the possibilities:

- What if they don't understand?
- What if it looks like i'm lying, given it's taken me three years and most people would be none the wiser?
- Who do I think is likely to understand? Who is likely not to?
- What happens if I'm unhappy enough to leave my job? Am I fit enough for other work?

So, that became things I did. To confront it. I looked for other jobs, just to satisfy this. I asked friends, i asked semi-friends, I posted here - I aired my grievances, while internally I felt like I was on a cliff edge looking down at jagged rocks.

The thing is, I reckon, if you're going to worry, it's a fucking pointless mechanism. So I try to apply like "practical"ideas to what I would actually do, to the worst case scenarios.

Time and again the day comes and reality is NOTHING like the worst case scenarios I can imagine. That's the depression working for me. Nothing is hidden.

So the thought becomes invalid. A pointless worry. Because I've already thought about it.

I have sympathy because it is hard as fuck. It really is hard. But if something scares you, needles you, or gets to you: it's a sign you need to confront it.

Me, I have people Ican trust. A core of good people. I dare say this place in RAWK is a good substitute.

Talk about the thought you wish to banish. Think very seriously about it - what it means, what the outcomes are. What would change. And get other people's opinions on it.

I find a lot of the darkest thoughts vanish in the daylight.

And it took me ages to do this. I think the only real benefit I have is I've lived with depression so long it doesn't even feel like a seperate thing.

It's a more extreme side. A deeper side.

Confront what concerns you. Expose it to daylight. Make it known. Talk about it.

I promise you, mate, these kind of thoughts have the most power at 4am, in the dark, when you're on your own. There's not a lot you can do about it there and then; but in good moments, you can strike.

I discussed some of this with my trauma doctor, and it is a valid technique. The gist of it is we all make absolutely tons of choices in a day; a lot of them are automatic.Roughly, it's about the neural pathways, and our behaviours and associations. You can act differently to change what something means.

The only thing I really do different is I don't hide what I'm going through. If it isn't here I'm just showing it to a different audience.

When these dark thoughts get strangled by oxygen and light, and the perspective of others, that's when I feel i have authority to banish them. Until then... hard to say.

I "worry too much", but then I came through that problem above smelling of roses and looking brave to a lot of people. It was hell for me, mate, I had days of no sleep, just processing things. Forcing myself to confront things. Reality bears it out. I think by the end of it there was not much left that reality could do that I hadn't at some point touched on in my own thoughts.

Quite a lot of the worst things I've experienced looked absolutely fuck-all like what I thought they would be like in my head. Reality is the only verifiable auditor. Trust others not hindered.

But it seems to be the only reliable way. These things, they get power from staying hidden and unvoiced.

The blues hate you speaking up about 'em.

"I can't see the light of day" often seems a very apt turn of phrase. That's just how we're seeing it. The day roars on. And when you step back into it, I've always found it's waiting right there for you. My depression yet again lied to me.

I have had been over my own depression and triggers with enough medical personnel to know what I am doing works.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how I quit drinking by the way.  So far so good.

Alcohol damages me. Trauma doctor told me. So in my head alcohol = prevents healing. We discussed it in depth. It was almost hilariously dark, the sheer amount of AA meetings in Liverpool. My problem is not alcohol but it isn't irrelevant.  And here we are with a culture that, sometimes, it can be too pro-masculine, dope-headed about being in crisis...

So "I programmed" myself to not drink. "Every time i drink I am allowing the trauma to persist and enhancing my depression". I'm not saying never. I'm not teetotal. It's a quality of life thing.

Have had one pint since the diagnosis, a month a lot of sitting off with Becks 0% or whatever when I see friends or just want to sit somewhere in the sun with a cold drink, still "me", the thing feels like a hoax, this item in your hand is real, when you consider is happiness is what, abv 5%? Ridiculous.

So I did this "i drink the fake beer" thing. Nobody cares. Big drinker Tony - nobody gives a fuck. The friends are still the same. The places are still the same.

No more booze, same method.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I immediately jump to worst case and it becomes acceptedd reality
My issue st the moment is Im completely reliant on others to to act in good faith and at weekends and evenings, I cant take any action, only during office hours,

I went through it with a mate and admitted that one of the people who needs to act in good faith has said she will do, but unless I get something written and signed she will act in good faith, its still there. 

Ive got this really sharp pain in my lower back. 

Thanks for the reply mate its really, really appreciated - I can refer back to it

[ToneLa]

I immediately jump to worst case and it becomes acceptedd reality
My issue st the moment is Im completely reliant on others to to act in good faith and at weekends and evenings, I cant take any action, only during office hours,

I went through it with a mate and admitted that one of the people who needs to act in good faith has said she will do, but unless I get something written and signed she will act in good faith, its still there. 

Ive got this really sharp pain in my lower back. 

Thanks for the reply mate its really, really appreciated - I can refer back to it

No problem at all mate, sorry to hear you're going through it

"Immediately jumping to worst-case scenario", sounds like catastrophising. So you're left with the worst case scenario. So perhaps de-catastrophising.

I think you'd still need to think it out. The thing is it'll arrive negative though. That's why it is a catastrophic thought. You need to remind yourself not to trust it. There are other sides to it.

I think that's where the same advice can apply. You have this worst case scenario. But it's still there to be dissected and considered. Do not accept it as truth. I mean you can describe it which to me implies you recognise it in some way as false.

I'm of course no substitute for the wonderful care I've found being open with clinicians in the local surgeries. Help is there for you. But hopefully you can think out these scenarios.

For me, I suppose, recent example if I was in your shoes, my work thing:

"I need to leave the job and there are no jobs available"
Which would mean I'm effectively homeless, I lose all possessions, not to mention family and friends, I've tossed that possibility around as well.

For you mate you jump immediately to this worst case in which case you should try to change it.

"I get a new job, where I am happier, and meet new people. My family and friends will support me until I get the new job"

Same situation.
Different angle.

I don't bullshit myself. I find the truth is usually somewhere in between the two extremes.

"I'll have trouble finding a new job. But I will work again. It'll be shit and disruptive, but I'll have support".

.... that suddenly looks much more like how it would play out

(And, I'm working still, feeling valued. Looking forward to work tomorrow. Reality vs depression)

[Son of Spion]

How do you ban thoughts mate, Im desperate to be able to do this

In short, you can't. It's just impossible.

On average we have around 60,000 thoughts per day. 75% of those thoughts will be what we perceive as having negative content. 95% of those thoughts will be repetitive in nature. All this is completely normal.

Tone is looking at it in a different way. A way that works for him. I commend his commitment and effort. He's putting an awful lot of thought into dealing with his thoughts, though. If you see what I mean.

I always believe in individuals finding what helps/works for them, then employing it. Tone provides a great example of just that. Arrived at via trial, error and learning from experience.

With thoughts, many will pop up in relation to practical things we need to do and decisions we need to make. We can't really ignore them, so have to think them through and come to conclusions on which to act.

Aside from those thoughts, we often seem plagued by what we consider intrusive, negative thoughts. To be honest, those type of distressing thoughts haunted me for most of my life. They still show up from time to time, but they don't haunt me now.

Why don't they haunt me now if they still show up? Well I learned to deal with them differently. Thing is, you can't unthink something. You can't force yourself not to think something. Try telling yourself you cannot think of bananas, and you'll automatically think of bananas. The more you focus on trying to not think something, the more you think it.

I researched CBT years ago. I've also had CBT myself. That helps us look at thoughts differently. You look at their validity. CBT really helps some people, but others either don't like it and/or don't respond to it. Just as with any therapy, really.

Although I took things from having CBT, I found it long-winded and still leaves you in a daily battle with your thoughts. Now I've had a battle raging in my head all my life. I didn't want to start another one.

It wasn't until I found another therapeutic approach that the penny dropped for me. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy is a values based approach that helps us not only identify our life values and live by them, but also how to live alongside our thoughts, no matter what they are.

In themselves, thoughts have no power. They only have the power we attribute to them. The trick is not to fight with them. Not to spend your life and your mental energy in conflict with them. We have to remember that fact about how many thoughts we have on average per day and the percentage that are what we perceive as negative. And that's in the normal, healthy mind too. 75% of our daily thoughts are negative, and 95% of those are repetitive. Now if you choose to fight that every day, your life becomes one long distressing conflict which drains your energy.

Through ACT, I learned how to step out of the battle with my thoughts. How to make room for them, but not be consumed by them or compelled to live my life ruled by them. Imagine yourself driving your own bus. You are going in the direction you value going in in life, but there's an annoying little twat on the back seat telling you that you'll never get there. You aren't good enough to get there.

Now, you can stop your bus and go back and fight with said twat, but you can't evict him from the bus because he's a normal, natural part of the ride. Problem is, he's now forced you into a conflict and you've now stopped travelling in your valued direction.

You have a choice now. Do you abandon your journey and stay embroiled in conflict with annoying thoughts guy, or do you offer him a seat in the back, get yourself back in the driver's seat and continue on your journey?

A lot of people abandon their journey, preferring to put it off until they finally evict annoying thoughts guy from their bus so their ride is easier. Problem there is, he can never be evicted. That's when people stagnate and become slave to Mr Twat and the thoughts he is always spouting from the back seat.

The way forward is to make room for him. Don't fight with him. If he pops up, he pops up. Let him mouth off in the background if he must. Just know that no matter what he says, he cannot hurt you. His words only have the weight you personally attribute to them.

The interesting thing is, when you do this, he pops up less and less anyway. He gets bored of being ignored. This isn't just another way of getting him to go away though. If you try to get him to go away completely, you'll always be disappointed.

So yes, when it's practical things we have to address and decisions we have to make, we have to devote time to thinking things through. But when it's those annoying, and often distressing, things the annoying guy on the back every single one of our personal buses, don't engage him. Don't fight with him. Just offer him a seat then carry on with your life. Then, he has no power over you.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Thank you both for the advice, its good to have stuff to refer back to.

 

[ToneLa]

Great post, thanks for the input Spion!

For reference my trauma doctor basically approved my method as being roughly CBT - "layman's CBT" (I did used to work in a mental health trust, so I'm just borrowing what I've picked up over the years, albeit doing it well. It was probably there when I had the idea of being "100% mentally perfect" absolutely destroyed for me, everybody hurts)

Sounds counter-intuitive at first that you can "think your way out".  I presume this is why I've not been pushed harder into the medications or therapy route.

My original wording of "banning thoughts" is more like a blocked road. "Been there, done that". Second time around. I'd agree with Spion that you can't necessarily prevent negative original thoughts existing. Apologies if I could have made it clearer: there's no initial filter. That's impossible.

I generally focus on quality of life, though the truly deep things hit hard in a way nothing can prepare me for. So then it becomes a concept of how I deal with myself, which I suppose is where my strength is.

I frequently find myself in periods of happiness then something uncontrollable happens to "spoil" it. I can't change that. I can change my reaction to things.

This is why I like the sound of ACT.  Cheers Spion, going to absorb this in my own time - a quick read is confirming some things I already knew

"it is counterproductive to try to control painful emotions or psychological experiences; suppression of these feelings ultimately leads to more distress."

Being diagnosed was like the jigsaw falling into place. It isn't a case of "these are invasive thoughts I must stop!"
It's totally: "I'm this way. So I am thinking about this dark thing. So I can do ____________"

One thing my trauma doctor said was how great it was just to see a bloke come in and speak frankly about his mental health. He said he wished more people do it. Really interesting guy, usually does private, is helping out my local practice.

And now it's like the full picture is emerging. It isn't about solving depression. I want to be the best version of me, and there are paths by which to attain that.

Thank you both for the advice, its good to have stuff to refer back to.

 

No problem - it helps me to talk about it

Even the idea it might possibly help someone else is turning bad old depression into something potentially good.

Dark into light.... that's what it's all about!

[Son of Spion]

I can see the "layman's CBT" in there, Tone.

I do like your approach of picking up and borrowing what you've used over the years. I've mentioned using an holistic approach in the past. All I mean by that is take whatever you find useful from wherever you find it. No theraputic approach has ever been proven more effective than the rest. They are all just theories. I'll dip my toe in anything to see if I can use it.

ACT is not for everyone either, but it resonates with me more than anything else. Because I've had a lifelong mental war going on in my head, an approach that side-steps the battle suits me down to the ground. I no longer battle with my thoughts, and that frees me up to enjoy my life more and do more with it.

Anyone interested in having a look at ACT in a really accessible way can read 'The Happiness Trap' by Russ Harris. It's very easy to read and understand. ACT is based in Relational Frame Theory , which was pioneered by Steven C. Hayes. His books are not as easy to get your head around, so Russ Harris is a great place to start. His stuff is more 'self help' than text book format.

You're right when you said everyone hurts. We often think others just sail through life and it's only us who are constantly plagued by distressing thoughts and the feelings they cause. It's not though. You notice it in mental health services. All walks of life come through the door. Rich, poor; it doesn't matter. Many people who appear on the surface to have it all can be the very same ones who feel they and their lives are falling apart. Some with lots of people around them can actually feel the most alone.

I know what you mean when you said your doctor found it refreshing that a male such as yourself could be so open about his mental health. It's improving though. When I was counselling young people up to 25 years of age it was noticable how more and more males now feel able to discuss things. I've always been open too. I had to be. I was at school when I first had to see a psychologist, so I'm comfortable with it.

I like your approach of trying to be the best version of you. That's what I do myself. It's always a work in progress. The focus is off anxiety and depression though, and on the task of being my best me. No one can be perfect. I'll never get anywhere near it. But I'll be in a better place than I used to be in, and I'll be a better person than I used to be too. That's all we can do, isn't it?

[ianburns252]

I'm not sure what the goddamn point of anything is these days.

Before I ramble on, following my last post I took on board the comments made and am working towards putting some of that stuff in place.

My job is killing me - I'm not sleeping properly because of it and it genuinely hurts because I love what I do. I know some of you will think I'm a mug for this (and if anyone is going to say "just do the minimum" please don't as it isn't in my nature and, again, I find it so interesting and engaging that I wouldn't want to) but because our client base are so sound and I am developing close professional relationships with these people then I have no problem spending so free time doing research for them on an accounting treatment etc as I can use it for my own knowledge.

What it is is the fucking people! Those at my level and those around my age I have no issue with and before this becomes a rant against the young we have some unreal up and coming trainees who will take the world by storm.

It isn't even about necessarily people's workload or time clocked.

It is their fucking mentality. I know that I trained in an era of "trainees are first in, last out and when I say jump you say how high" so I don't expect that but we have trainees willfully ignoring or refusing instruction and causing grief around the team and I just think "if they can get away with fucking about, why am I trying to hard"

It isn't as though I'm some horrendous dictator or anything - literally this week I have had two people say they don't want to follow a certain process that has been mandated down from QAD and had another lad last week when pissed tell me how he hadn't done any work for two weeks.

The firm I am at is class in terms of how they treat the team, how we approach work life balance and all that but due to rapid growth we have had some trainees no learn about certain processes due to time being more important and now I'm saying "guys I need you to do this and if you don't it will cause problems" they are saying fuck off.

I know that I am not a natural leader of people - I can enthuse people who are clever or who are hard working even if they aren't naturals at it but those people who are just "ok" I can't get to them.

Just want to bang my head against the wall because I know what this sort of thing does to me and I know that if it goes on I will start becoming a problem drinker again and will put myself at risk.

Just fucking hate to see how hard I try (and the hours I put in to helping people) go to waste

[damomad]

That sounds horrible Ian, it's only anecdotal but I've seen a major rise in the amount of newbies being put onto PIP's and being managed out the door recently. Some of it is to do with over recruitment during COVID but a lot of the time individuals are making it an easy choice for management. Lack of presence and a fall in standards, a failure to realise what is expected from them.

Have you noticed a change in quality since COVID? I get a sense that standards have dropped due to getting away with so much for so long. And working for home for so long, they fail to see the impact of their slacking is having on those further up the chain.

Maybe this cycle of recruits is a lost cause and you'll have to get a new batch of trainees in who haven't had it as easy.

[Black Bull Nova]

I'm not sure what the goddamn point of anything is these days.

Before I ramble on, following my last post I took on board the comments made and am working towards putting some of that stuff in place.

My job is killing me - I'm not sleeping properly because of it and it genuinely hurts because I love what I do. I know some of you will think I'm a mug for this (and if anyone is going to say "just do the minimum" please don't as it isn't in my nature and, again, I find it so interesting and engaging that I wouldn't want to) but because our client base are so sound and I am developing close professional relationships with these people then I have no problem spending so free time doing research for them on an accounting treatment etc as I can use it for my own knowledge.

What it is is the fucking people! Those at my level and those around my age I have no issue with and before this becomes a rant against the young we have some unreal up and coming trainees who will take the world by storm.

It isn't even about necessarily people's workload or time clocked.

It is their fucking mentality. I know that I trained in an era of "trainees are first in, last out and when I say jump you say how high" so I don't expect that but we have trainees willfully ignoring or refusing instruction and causing grief around the team and I just think "if they can get away with fucking about, why am I trying to hard"

It isn't as though I'm some horrendous dictator or anything - literally this week I have had two people say they don't want to follow a certain process that has been mandated down from QAD and had another lad last week when pissed tell me how he hadn't done any work for two weeks.

The firm I am at is class in terms of how they treat the team, how we approach work life balance and all that but due to rapid growth we have had some trainees no learn about certain processes due to time being more important and now I'm saying "guys I need you to do this and if you don't it will cause problems" they are saying fuck off.

I know that I am not a natural leader of people - I can enthuse people who are clever or who are hard working even if they aren't naturals at it but those people who are just "ok" I can't get to them.

Just want to bang my head against the wall because I know what this sort of thing does to me and I know that if it goes on I will start becoming a problem drinker again and will put myself at risk.

Just fucking hate to see how hard I try (and the hours I put in to helping people) go to waste

What you must do is not think you can solve the problems of the world, even that part of it close to you. You need to concentrate on yourself and what you do and show by example. Youngsters have always been slackers and rarely have a work ethos to start out with (some do).


Don't let it get to you, get your pride from what you do and don't let the obvious frustration eat your soul. In the end we can only really manage ourselves.


At the end of the day, these people will fade into memory and what you will be left with is your own self worth and conscience. This is what matters in the long run so take pride in yourself and your work, see others as people who can be helped if they need or want it and look after yourself (and by extension others) through how you carry yourself and interact with others.

[AlphaDelta]

@ianburns252

I can relate to a lot of what you say pal, I love my job and for the last few years have literally put everything into it. Unfortunately, because of the very nature of our work (civil service), people can and do get away with absolute murder. My boss for example, he's frequently took credit for a lot hard work I have achieved and passed it off as his own. I am not a brown nose, far from it, but I take the mentality that I am being paid to do something and I should try my hardest to be good at what I am paid to do. Sadly, and I've said this before on here, some people just aren't like that these days. They come into a role with a bad attitude and thats what gets people's back up.

Keep your chin up if you can pal.

[Fiasco]

Maybe I've been stupid for so long, but for as much as I outwardly love this time of year (the colours, the winter coming, footie is back etc), it is surely no coincidence that my depression does come on stronger at this time of year as well. Seasonal of course. Less sunlight, longer nights etc. As I say, it is quite a contradiction because I am a winter person over a summer person, I don't mind nice summer days but anything above 20 degrees and I get agitated and struggle to function. Plus my sleeping pattern has always been horrendous, so not being able to sleep in hot, sticky nights just exacerbates that problem.

I've felt it coming on for weeks really. It never really goes as many in this thread will know, but you can function and try and get through it. But over the weeks I've felt it coming on and it really is here now. You know that homesick feeling you get, but you're not actually away from home? That pit of your stomach dread, the feeling of tears behind your eyes ready to just release at any given moment and for no apparent reason. I'll fight it as I always have but it doesn't seem to get any easier.

I lose track on here and my PMs get lost in drafts sometimes, but anyone is free to hit me up for a chat on there anytime, would be happy to listen to anybody who is struggling.

[Son of Spion]

Maybe I've been stupid for so long, but for as much as I outwardly love this time of year (the colours, the winter coming, footie is back etc), it is surely no coincidence that my depression does come on stronger at this time of year as well. Seasonal of course. Less sunlight, longer nights etc. As I say, it is quite a contradiction because I am a winter person over a summer person, I don't mind nice summer days but anything above 20 degrees and I get agitated and struggle to function. Plus my sleeping pattern has always been horrendous, so not being able to sleep in hot, sticky nights just exacerbates that problem.

I've felt it coming on for weeks really. It never really goes as many in this thread will know, but you can function and try and get through it. But over the weeks I've felt it coming on and it really is here now. You know that homesick feeling you get, but you're not actually away from home? That pit of your stomach dread, the feeling of tears behind your eyes ready to just release at any given moment and for no apparent reason. I'll fight it as I always have but it doesn't seem to get any easier.

I lose track on here and my PMs get lost in drafts sometimes, but anyone is free to hit me up for a chat on there anytime, would be happy to listen to anybody who is struggling.

I had the exact same feeling today while out walking the dog in the park. I get it every year too, around this time. I am ok with winter once it's here, but it's the transitional period I always struggled with. I'm a summer person ideally. The onset of winter always felt like creeping death to me.

I saw it as the time everything died. For some reason, a time when I also felt I had less control. A time when I'm more aware of the mortality of my loved ones. I had to eventually learn to reframe the approaching winter differently. Now, I see it more as the time not where everything dies, but where everything rests and sleeps after being busy since spring. That helps quite a lot actually, but I still get the feelings you described in the autumn transition.

Like I mentioned in another recent post, I just try to make room for the thoughts and feelings, but not dwell on them. I acknowledge their presence though.

In your case, although you say you are more of a winter person, it sounds like your body and mind enjoy the much longer hours of daylight in summer. The weather not so much, of course. But daylight can make a big difference. That's one reason why it's quite healthy to go to bed earlier and get up earlier in winter. You get to see more daylight hours. The more daylight/sunlight we get, the better.

Take care of yourself, mate.

[Black Bull Nova]

I had the exact same feeling today while out walking the dog in the park. I get it every year too, around this time. I am ok with winter once it's here, but it's the transitional period I always struggled with. I'm a summer person ideally. The onset of winter always felt like creeping death to me.

I saw it as the time everything died. For some reason, a time when I also felt I had less control. A time when I'm more aware of the mortality of my loved ones. I had to eventually learn to reframe the approaching winter differently. Now, I see it more as the time not where everything dies, but where everything rests and sleeps after being busy since spring. That helps quite a lot actually, but I still get the feelings you described in the autumn transition.

Like I mentioned in another recent post, I just try to make room for the thoughts and feelings, but not dwell on them. I acknowledge their presence though.

In your case, although you say you are more of a winter person, it sounds like your body and mind enjoy the much longer hours of daylight in summer. The weather not so much, of course. But daylight can make a big difference. That's one reason why it's quite healthy to go to bed earlier and get up earlier in winter. You get to see more daylight hours. The more daylight/sunlight we get, the better.

Take care of yourself, mate.

Funnily enough I am the other way around, sunny days quite often get me down, I think these things set in during childhood.

[AlphaDelta]

I have just come back from one of the greatest holidays I have ever had and as predicted, the wave of depression/post-holiday blues has hit me.
It does not help that I come back to an empty house which I shared with my mum before she passed away in 2019. I have decorated it, changed things around, but the memories are still there.

I struggle with the evenings, especially when it goes dark. Sometimes I think its not normal to still grieve for someone after four years, but then I know it actually is perfectly normal.

Given the trauma I have been through since then, I do believe I need some sort of help. I lost my mum in 2019, followed by a really close mate a few months later who took his own life.

During covid I lost my uncle who I was really close to, then I lost another good mate to cancer and then last year I made contact with my dad after 25 years. He was still an arsehole, but he was diagnosed with a terminal brain tumour within months of us meeting again. I couldn’t stand the man, but I opted to stand by him whilst he was ill. He died 12 months ago.

On top of that, a woman in work who is a close friend and someone I have been having an affair with, got breast cancer but is thankfully in remission.

I have told myself several times that I am jinxed or a curse, I have questioned why all this has happened to me inside four years? After all I’ve never done anything to anyone, I am just a normal lad from Huyton.
I managed to get through it, I had counselling through work and thought I got the better of it, but I think I need a little bit more. For example, I find myself getting emotional over the stupidest of things such as adverts, soaps etc. I know that isn’t normal.

It does help coming into this thread though, the empathy and decency in here is outstanding.

[Keith Lard]

Funnily enough I am the other way around, sunny days quite often get me down, I think these things set in during childhood.

You are one fucked up little puppy, getting depressed by shorts, sunshine and pina coladas.

I bet you prefer Angelina 200 years old too

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/yxNcUn5hIJU?si=2GJwBAY6qTWwHwxf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/yxNcUn5hIJU?si=2GJwBAY6qTWwHwxf</a>

[evie]

I have just come back from one of the greatest holidays I have ever had and as predicted, the wave of depression/post-holiday blues has hit me.
It does not help that I come back to an empty house which I shared with my mum before she passed away in 2019. I have decorated it, changed things around, but the memories are still there.

I struggle with the evenings, especially when it goes dark. Sometimes I think its not normal to still grieve for someone after four years, but then I know it actually is perfectly normal.

Given the trauma I have been through since then, I do believe I need some sort of help. I lost my mum in 2019, followed by a really close mate a few months later who took his own life.

During covid I lost my uncle who I was really close to, then I lost another good mate to cancer and then last year I made contact with my dad after 25 years. He was still an arsehole, but he was diagnosed with a terminal brain tumour within months of us meeting again. I couldn’t stand the man, but I opted to stand by him whilst he was ill. He died 12 months ago.

On top of that, a woman in work who is a close friend and someone I have been having an affair with, got breast cancer but is thankfully in remission.

I have told myself several times that I am jinxed or a curse, I have questioned why all this has happened to me inside four years? After all I’ve never done anything to anyone, I am just a normal lad from Huyton.
I managed to get through it, I had counselling through work and thought I got the better of it, but I think I need a little bit more. For example, I find myself getting emotional over the stupidest of things such as adverts, soaps etc. I know that isn’t normal.

It does help coming into this thread though, the empathy and decency in here is outstanding.

The thing about a jinx or a curse….for me it’s like I feel like I’m being punished by the universe for bad (read really bad) decisions I’ve made in the past. It’s killing me.