Topic: The Klopp Template

[killer-heels]

It's still not clear what we're trying to achieve.  We set up to play like a possession team but aren't coached to play possession football, and our set of forwards don't compliment each other or gel particularly well.

We have quality all over the pitch, which is why we'll always get results and why we're right up there, but it really feels like there's no clear plan.

Don't expect much activity in January, maybe a defender, but a serious rethink is needed in the summer.

Our game control and defensive structure, as well as our counter pressing has improved big time though this past week. How many times did we like the 18-20 team did we win the ball back in great positions against all three teams? Loads and we should have converted.

I can see why Klopp was delighted with that element of performance against United. The issue is now the last bit but I remember the Guardiola thing about getting you to their box and then its on the attackers.

[RedG13]

Our game control and defensive structure, as well as our counter pressing has improved big time though this past week. How many times did we like the 18-20 team did we win the ball back in great positions against all three teams? Loads and we should have converted.

I can see why Klopp was delighted with that element of performance against United. The issue is now the last bit but I remember the Guardiola thing about getting you to their box and then its on the attackers.

It just seems like it going take some time. Yes Everybody loves new signing but it super important to be consistently playing with the same player in the system. This little winter break probably going be super helpful for everybody, Even without Endo and Salah, Klopp going be able to work on the training pitch more then he has since like August since having Midweek games training sessions are a lot more recovery stuff at times from my understanding.

Im not discounting not saying adding players is important but like putting somebody new in takes time to get used too and there was 4 new Midfielders too with Lineups also been heavy rotated in part of managing minutes/playing time and in part because of injuries and red cards.
Also there still been a lot of good performances this season, just seems a little dip the last month.

[killer-heels]

It just seems like it going take some time. Yes Everybody loves new signing but it super important to be consistently playing with the same player in the system. This little winter break probably going be super helpful for everybody, Even without Endo and Salah, Klopp going be able to work on the training pitch more then he has since like August since having Midweek games training sessions are a lot more recovery stuff at times from my understanding.

Im not discounting not saying adding players is important but like putting somebody new in takes time to get used too and there was 4 new Midfielders too with Lineups also been heavy rotated in part of managing minutes/playing time and in part because of injuries and red cards.
Also there still been a lot of good performances this season, just seems a little dip the last month.

I agree which is why bar a defender I have said we should look to identify new players at the end of the season. I think we need an attacker of starting level but we should wait until the summer.

[Eeyore]

It's still not clear what we're trying to achieve.  We set up to play like a possession team but aren't coached to play possession football, and our set of forwards don't compliment each other or gel particularly well.

We have quality all over the pitch, which is why we'll always get results and why we're right up there, but it really feels like there's no clear plan.

Don't expect much activity in January, maybe a defender, but a serious rethink is needed in the summer.

You keep saying that we aren't coached to play possession football.

If that were true how has Endo improved his involvement in the build-up, How has Jones changed from a pure attacker to a controller, how has Gomez improved his build-up play when asked to play as an IFB, and above all how has Darwin massively improved his link-up play and how has Mo become a playmaker.

Those things don't just happen, it requires coaching and huge amounts of work on the training ground.

[Chris~]

Individual improvements aren't the same as repeated structures at a team level. Obviously there going to be some possession work, we're going to have lots of it, but it's not and will never be our biggest strength of what we build from like say Guardiola or De Zerbi or Postecoglu it seems. That's fine, there isn't one way of winning. I'm also not sure how much Gomez has improved rather than his role just changed, he's always been really good on the ball. Same with Endo just getting more game time (and is he that much better than 2 weeks ago?). I'm sure if asked Klopp'd say Endo and the team have had very little time on the training ground to work on these things since the season started.

[tubby]

You keep saying that we aren't coached to play possession football.

If that were true how has Endo improved his involvement in the build-up, How has Jones changed from a pure attacker to a controller, how has Gomez improved his build-up play when asked to play as an IFB, and above all how has Darwin massively improved his link-up play and how has Mo become a playmaker.

Those things don't just happen, it requires coaching and huge amounts of work on the training ground.

We still struggle to play out from the back under pressure, and we're never able to work the ball into the box against a packed defence.  We just end up crossing or taking a pot shot.

[jepovic]

I dont think we struggled to get the ball up, except the first 15 min. Do we warm up or do we spend the last hour before the game eating pie? Not sure anymore

Our final passes were poor though, especially from our normally best players like Trent and Salah

[Eeyore]

We still struggle to play out from the back under pressure, and we're never able to work the ball into the box against a packed defence.  We just end up crossing or taking a pot shot.

I would say we were much better at building up from the back against West Ham and Arsenal than we were against United.

As for working the ball into the box for me a lot of that is down to Salah losing a yard of pace, Diaz not being the same since his injury and we are missing Robbo who is very good at getting to the bye line.

Do the likes of City and Arsenal pass their way into the box or just use the likes of Doku, Grealish, Martinelli and Saka to use their individual ability to take players on.

For me we are a work in progress and pretty much stuck between Klopp mk1 and mk2. We have an abundance of shooting power but lack a game breaker in the wide positions and that should be addressed in the next couple of windows.

[Dave McCoy]

The template is we're supposed to overwhelm teams in the press and attack to such an extent that it covers up for the few good chances we concede when it fails. So to say it's a work in progress or ahead of schedule when its really all working except the attack yet those attackers aren't new, well then it's a problem. For all the lamenting of not getting a proper DM or another CB, it really hasn't been an issue over the course of the season so far. Where we've had an issue is our attackers seemingly forgetting how to attack, especially over the last month. If collectively they had any type of form we'd be looking pretty good right now.

I'd buy an attacker this window if one is available. We have a good chance to win the title now. We could get better next year but ManC reloads and our chances would be worse. Need to strike while the iron is hot so to say.

[Knight]

The template is we're supposed to overwhelm teams in the press and attack to such an extent that it covers up for the few good chances we concede when it fails. So to say it's a work in progress or ahead of schedule when its really all working except the attack yet those attackers aren't new, well then it's a problem. For all the lamenting of not getting a proper DM or another CB, it really hasn't been an issue over the course of the season so far. Where we've had an issue is our attackers seemingly forgetting how to attack, especially over the last month. If collectively they had any type of form we'd be looking pretty good right now.

I'd buy an attacker this window if one is available. We have a good chance to win the title now. We could get better next year but ManC reloads and our chances would be worse. Need to strike while the iron is hot so to say.

I basically agree with this. Good post.

[johnny74]

Is it the players or the system? They all seem to be playing in very tight spaces and I'm not sure how they are supposed to fit together other than Mo is on the wing which is working in a sense.

[RedG13]

I agree which is why bar a defender I have said we should look to identify new players at the end of the season. I think we need an attacker of starting level but we should wait until the summer.

It just what type of Defender. I know hybrid cb/lb been mentioned however if the CB not good in the air I doubt Klopp would sign them.
Would just think long term LB comes in the summer and one of the current ones is gone. It really sucks both had freak type injuries. Have 4 senior Cbs healthy granted one has be a start at FB now.
It just depends on Diaz for attacker for me, can find the form etc. Is it just return performance from the knee injury at the PL level.

[killer-heels]

It just what type of Defender. I know hybrid cb/lb been mentioned however if the CB not good in the air I doubt Klopp would sign them.
Would just think long term LB comes in the summer and one of the current ones is gone. It really sucks both had freak type injuries. Have 4 senior Cbs healthy granted one has be a start at FB now.
It just depends on Diaz for attacker for me, can find the form etc. Is it just return performance from the knee injury at the PL level.

I am not one who wants a CB/LB. I dont know why thats a thing anymore, full backs and centrebacks do different roles. What people want is an eventual Virgil replacement but how many centrebacks are there that can also play left back and be amazing in the air?

I wanted a left back but personally I think we should get a right back who can start and shift Trent to midfield. That would also release Gomez to cover at left back until Robertson and Tsimikas come back. Next summer just get an out and out centreback to replace Matip.

In terms of the attack I believe that unless we see a serious up turn in form from Diaz, Nunez or Gakpo, that we need a top attacker.

Its also funny how priorities can change because of the form of Mac Allister, Jones, Elliott and the possibility of Trent and promise of Gravenberch, I actually have central midfield down as last in priority.

[RedG13]

I am not one who wants a CB/LB. I dont know why thats a thing anymore, full backs and centrebacks do different roles. What people want is an eventual Virgil replacement but how many centrebacks are there that can also play left back and be amazing in the air?

I wanted a left back but personally I think we should get a right back who can start and shift Trent to midfield. That would also release Gomez to cover at left back until Robertson and Tsimikas come back. Next summer just get an out and out centreback to replace Matip.

In terms of the attack I believe that unless we see a serious up turn in form from Diaz, Nunez or Gakpo, that we need a top attacker.

Its also funny how priorities can change because of the form of Mac Allister, Jones, Elliott and the possibility of Trent and promise of Gravenberch, I actually have central midfield down as last in priority.

I rather keep Trent at RB. His only spot in MF is 6, and that limits how much he can go forward.
I think Quansah can be the Virgil replacement long term. I mostly just think LB going need to be sorted unless they fully just think of Gomez as a FB now which I doubt(then a CB needed). That 4 senior Cbs.
Nunez has been good even though he not scoring he not an issue imo.

[Coolie High]

I rather keep Trent at RB. His only spot in MF is 6, and that limits how much he can go forward.
I think Quansah can be the Virgil replacement long term. I mostly just think LB going need to be sorted unless they fully just think of Gomez as a FB now which I doubt(then a CB needed). That 4 senior Cbs.
Nunez has been good even though he not scoring he not an issue imo.

Gomez is a cb, Konate Gomez VVD Quansah is a good 4, we don’t need to sign another one, if anything we should bring Van Den Berg back.

[RedG13]

Gomez is a cb, Konate Gomez VVD Quansah is a good 4, we don’t need to sign another one, if anything we should bring Van Den Berg back.

I agree about Gomez. I think Van Den Berg has a option for Mainz to buy. I think he earned enough to come back but Im not sure he going too.

[Eeyore]

The template is we're supposed to overwhelm teams in the press and attack to such an extent that it covers up for the few good chances we concede when it fails. So to say it's a work in progress or ahead of schedule when its really all working except the attack yet those attackers aren't new, well then it's a problem. For all the lamenting of not getting a proper DM or another CB, it really hasn't been an issue over the course of the season so far. Where we've had an issue is our attackers seemingly forgetting how to attack, especially over the last month. If collectively they had any type of form we'd be looking pretty good right now.

I'd buy an attacker this window if one is available. We have a good chance to win the title now. We could get better next year but ManC reloads and our chances would be worse. Need to strike while the iron is hot so to say.

For me, we have moved away from trying to overwhelm teams. We might have a 10-15 minute period when we go full-court press but those occasions are few and far between.

We are now looking for midfield control. A good example would be the initial substitutions against United that left us open to the counter for a period. We then shut things down and went back to control.

Earlier in the season and especially last season we were regularly giving up big chances with alarming regularity. In the last three games against top 8 sides, we have offered up very little.

Arsenal had an xG of 0.85, West Ham 0.06 and United 0.63. That is a massive improvement and shows how much better we are at controlling the transitions. Inevitably that has had a knock on effect on how much we are creating but even so we have had 76 shots in the last three games.

Obviously, a lot of those shots have been from less-than-ideal positions but with a little refinement things should improve.     

[Historical Fool]

I dont think we struggled to get the ball up, except the first 15 min. Do we warm up or do we spend the last hour before the game eating pie? Not sure anymore

Our final passes were poor though, especially from our normally best players like Trent and Salah

They warm up and have quite a robust pre match routine. Not sure what you’re unsure about here …

[jepovic]

We have been too sloppy with the final passes and finishes lately. Mo and Trent have moments of brilliance, but they arenalso very wasteful at the moment. No tactics can overcome that.

We need a RB more than ever. Opens up for moving Trent to CM, and Gomez to the left until Robbo is back.
I dont see us getting a LB for just a couple of weeks. Kostas injury sucks, but it should heal predictably.

[DiggerJohn]

Hope you RAWK heads had a good Christmas.  I have being reading the comments about Klopp mk2 and it is interesting see that progression.  I think we are well placed to do well this season.  However when I think of the 2018-20 team Klopp mk1

           Allison
Trent Matip Van Dijk Robbo
Henderson Fabinho Wijnaldum
    Salah Firmino Mane

versus the current team

            Alisson
Trent Konate Van Dijk Robbo(1st teamer)
Szobolszai MacAllister(1t Teamer) Jones
    Salah Nunez/Gakpo Diaz/Jota

I think currently its still Salah(31) Alisson Van Dijk(32) as the most consistent guys.  Possibly Szobolszai is a potential upgrade on the 2018-20 Henderson.

I think Mane Firmino and Fabinho havent been replaced fully with the newer versions.  Also I think Wijnaldum is a very underrated player in that Klopp Mk1 team, Curtis Jones has that potential. possibly 

Probably the bench in Klopp mk2 is stronger though.

[RedG13]

I thought the last 2 games, The Long shots where the better option have not been has a much, Dom had like 1, Im ok with like 1 from him with that.
I thought consistently was trying to make the extra pass and get good shots inside the box.

[jepovic]

Half the season, top of the league, good times!

I think we are roughly where I thought we would be before the season, quality wise. Much better than last season, but also with some clear issues. Were good, but not sparkling. Players like Nunez and Szobo clearly play a notch below their best.

The surprise is that this is good enough to be on top. I think it will continue like this, and that we will have an epic multi team title run

[Chris~]

https://twitter.com/markrstats/status/1742049162840178767?t=p9BwzyT33sbxNcIjycjw7A&s=19

Getting back to being one of the best pressing sides in the world.

[Draex]

Yep, press and counter press lead by Jones is on point. I loved watching us for about 20 minutes in the first half just win the ball back and it was wave after wave of attacks, that's us at our best, this metronome of sustained pressure building and building then pop, it must be incredibly hard for the opponent.

[Felch Aid]

Results wise I think we are slightly ahead.

I assumed progress from last year but in transition with a second half even better.

What has been more evident is the press is just coming back, Diaz just coming back to his better form and the link up play between the front 3.

We are finishing the games really strongly and fitness wise we look a step up.

Still think we have a couple more gears to come.

Afcon, Asia cup and some injuries not helpful but still plenty of firepower and January not overly congested.

It's really positive and I suspect Klopp is happy to see the team start to click ready for the big push.

[killer-heels]

We have become incredible again.

[DiggerJohn]

The team is looking very good again especially after the shit show last season.  All the summer signings have been great.  I think possibly Gravenperch still has to prove himself but wasnt that expensive and has huge potential.  The likes of Joe and Curtis have really impressed and are becoming key players.  Ali Virgil and Mo are Club legends. Quansah has been a big find and Bradley coming through too.  Squad is looking strong and coping well with the injuries to Robbo Joel and Tsimikas.  Also Bajcetic to comeback.

Where needs strengthening?  I still would want another pacy forward because apart from Nunez we dont have another.
Please get Mo to stay on too, fuck Saudi Arabia.

[afc tukrish]

I think possibly Gravenperch still has to prove himself

Jugen is gearing up to knock him off his fucking berch...

[DiggerJohn]

 

[afc tukrish]

 

[PaulF]

The team is looking very good again especially after the shit show last season.  All the summer signings have been great.  I think possibly Gravenperch still has to prove himself but wasnt that expensive and has huge potential.  The likes of Joe and Curtis have really impressed and are becoming key players.  Ali Virgil and Mo are Club legends. Quansah has been a big find and Bradley coming through too.  Squad is looking strong and coping well with the injuries to Robbo Joel and Tsimikas.  Also Bajcetic to comeback.

Where needs strengthening?  I still would want another pacy forward because apart from Nunez we dont have another.
Please get Mo to stay on too, fuck Saudi Arabia.

What's TAA done robe be left out?

[newterp]

What's TAA done robe be left out?

I think that's the problem. should keep the robe on.

[afc tukrish]

I think that's the problem. should keep the robe on.

Certainly while he's taking a corner...

[DiggerJohn]

What's TAA done robe be left out?

100% right Trent is the guy sorry apologises love Jota Konate Darwin Diaz lol

[BarryCrocker]

Apparently 15 goals and 15 assists from the bench this season. Sounds like the boss knows how to change things up.

[DiggerJohn]

Thats a good point Barry.  Klopp mk2 version appears to have more options from the bench to change it up so you can see the benefit of that.
Klopp mk1 the first 11 was stronger but bench options were poorer Origi did well but having either Jota Nunez or Gakpo coming on is an upgrade.  Same with midfield Harvey or Gravenberch seem to be effective game changes too.

[Draex]

Apparently 15 goals and 15 assists from the bench this season. Sounds like the boss knows how to change things up.

Klopp the canny bastard pushing for 5 subs, he loves a 3 sub change around 55mins. Reminds me a bit of what rugby union transitioned to which is your starters and finishers, you let your starters wear down the opponents and bring on your finishers to finish the job.

[tubby]

Klopp is brilliant at changing games from the bench.  But we wouldn't have to do it as often if we didn't keep conceding the first goal, which is something he's not been great at sorting out.

[thaddeus]

Klopp is brilliant at changing games from the bench.  But we wouldn't have to do it as often if we didn't keep conceding the first goal, which is something he's not been great at sorting out.

I think some credit to our opponents for starting games against us like it's a cup final.  It seems to be the accepted tactic now against us to hit us hard early on and then hang in later.

What we've done really well all season is to not go two goals down during those periods.  We then just run through tiring sides in the second half of games.

I'm not sure if it's deliberate from Klopp/Ljinders but it feels like périodisation on a much smaller scale.  Conserve energy in the first half whilst making sure the game isn't lost and then win it in the second half when it really matters.

[PaulF]

Klopp the canny bastard pushing for 5 subs, he loves a 3 sub change around 55mins. Reminds me a bit of what rugby union transitioned to which is your starters and finishers, you let your starters wear down the opponents and bring on your finishers to finish the job.

Yeah, he's great at getting one step ahead of how to take maximum advantage of rules changes.
It helps us keep a bigger/better squad happier too. Smaller clubs can't compete with our bench. Only really a 'top 6' can afford to. And that's assuming they spend their cash wisely.