Topic: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Your post makes no sense as you said it was different immediately.

If that was the case then we wouldn’t have had momentum.

Fuck me. Read my fucking post.

It fucking was for me - for my mates.

The team still had momentum.


You're just taking the fucking piss now mate.

[Tiz Lad]

As soon as anybody gives their notice they're not 100% committed. Same rules all over the world regardless of what job people have. Jurgen is just a fella waiting to leave a job he no longer wishes to continue in. That's the reality.

He's checked out and allowed the players to do the same

[Jm55]

Absolutely fucking laughable that when we’ve had 3 title races against the cheats that people on here have ‘rightly’ said that it’s pathetic of other fanbases to want them to win it over us out of spite, yet here we are in the same position with tonnes cheering on the cheats to win it over Arsenal.

Arsenal are an annoying football team and some of their fans, especially online can be weird, but at the end of the day it will be won on merit and rather than from flouting the laws of the game and will stop 115 FC winning four on the fucking spin.

[Nick110581]

Fuck me. Read my fucking post.

It fucking was for me - for my mates.

The team still had momentum.


You're just taking the fucking piss now mate.

I said earlier that we lost the plot as a Club after drawing with United.

Seem to impact everyone.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Is that just your disappointment and frustration showing, Andy, or do you really think that's the case?

I've not got the impression that the bond was/is broken. That's just my perspective though, so I can't speak for anyone else there. For me, it's actually strengthened my bond with him. Reason being that he's leaving because he loves us. He knows he can't give the required focus and intensity anymore because he's burnt out. He refuses to shortchange us by staying and going through the motions.

I think we've faltered due to exhaustion. Probably mental rather than physical. Relentless injuries and the doings of a clearly hostile PGMOL have also put the icing on the cake.

We still kind of wobbled on, but since that protest the fans have gone. Me and my mates were saying that it wasn't the same once he was off.

The silence and the protest stopped the fans from getting behind the manager and the team. That hasn't returned. Not sure if you were at Goodison yesterday, but the Everton fans singing our Support was fucking shite weren't wrong. We were pretty silent. Any backing at Anfield - where we lost twice and any backing yesterday - where we lost again didn't come back.

We were shite. Klopp is off. We had momentum in the team. That's gone. We have no support from the stands.

Not sure I can be even arsed going to the last two games at Anfield. What's the fucking point?

[Nick110581]

As soon as anybody gives their notice they're not 100% committed. Same rules all over the world regardless of what job people have. Jurgen is just a fella waiting to leave a job he no longer wishes to continue in. That's the reality.

He's checked out and allowed the players to do the same

This is pretty much spot on but we still kept winning and the news galvanised the players / fans.

Then it all went pear shaped. Maybe it was the ticket price rise or drawing with United. Who knows?

[Son of Spion]

It's not exactly out of line to think a change may be needed when the man himself definitely believes a change is needed. Nobody would have objected to Jurgen doing another 10 years if he wanted to do so, but once a manager knows he has run out of steam it is time for a change.

Nobody wants to see this man ruining his health or well-being doing this job, if he's done we need to respect it and move on, so a change is needed.

Doesn't mean we're happy with that change though.

I'm just glad that Jürgen has the self-awareness and maturity to know when and how to do the right thing by himself, his family, his club and his club's fans. I'd hate to see such a wonderful man run himself and his health into the ground. That would do him and us no good at all.

[Jm55]

We still kind of wobbled on, but since that protest the fans have gone. Me and my mates were saying that it wasn't the same once he was off.

The silence and the protest stopped the fans from getting behind the manager and the team. That hasn't returned. Not sure if you were at Goodison yesterday, but the Everton fans singing our Support was fucking shite weren't wrong. We were pretty silent. Any backing at Anfield - where we lost twice and any backing yesterday - where we lost again didn't come back.

We were shite. Klopp is off. We had momentum in the team. That's gone. We have no support from the stands.

Not sure I can be even arsed going to the last two games at Anfield. What's the fucking point?

To be fair I was at Fulham on Sunday and it was as good as virtually any atmosphere we’ve had all season.

I wasn’t there yesterday but I suspect that the lack of an atmosphere might be linked to the absolute shite on the pitch.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

I'm just glad that Jürgen has the self-awareness and maturity to know when and how to do the right thing by himself, his family, his club and his club's fans. I'd hate to see such a wonderful man run himself and his health into the ground. That would do him and us no good at all.

It's a good point. I can't be arsed reading all the way back, but someone said, even as a fan I'm knackered. Just watching some of the stuff and the pressers etc, without the football

[Caligula?]

I agree with Andy. I think the decision to announce that he was leaving was a calculated gamble that's not payed off. In hindsight I can see why it was done and I'd never hold it against the man for doing so.

But it has taken its toll. Jurgen has seemed more fed up with it with each passing week. He just hasn't been the same out there on the touchline. It's transferred through to the players. We have to remember that at the end of the day they're just human beings. Some of them have probably been thinking about their own futures as soon as Klopp announced he was leaving. Will they survive a new manager's cull? Will they get as much game time? What's going to happen? Surely being confronted with questions such as these and others can't be good for performance. You can try to put it in the back of your mind and get on with it but it's always going to creep back in. Momentum got us through the first few weeks where performances were not great but we kept getting results but it was obviously going to come crashing down sooner rather than later once it wore off.

[Son of Spion]

We still kind of wobbled on, but since that protest the fans have gone. Me and my mates were saying that it wasn't the same once he was off.

The silence and the protest stopped the fans from getting behind the manager and the team. That hasn't returned. Not sure if you were at Goodison yesterday, but the Everton fans singing our Support was fucking shite weren't wrong. We were pretty silent. Any backing at Anfield - where we lost twice and any backing yesterday - where we lost again didn't come back.

We were shite. Klopp is off. We had momentum in the team. That's gone. We have no support from the stands.

Not sure I can be even arsed going to the last two games at Anfield. What's the fucking point?

Interesting to feel other people's pulse on this one. Cheers for the reply.

I wasn't in the ground last night. I had a family meal booked in town. We saw the second half in the pub. Grim stuff.

It does feel like the end of an era. But a new dawn always follows. You know that as much as anyone. We'll all be back. Maybe we just all need a rest and a reset.

[killer-heels]

I dont see why Klopp’s decision to announce him leaving is being criticised. A lot of people thought we would struggle to get top four. Instead we have challenged until late April and won a cup. Its a good season.

This is just one of those cases where we just have to hold our hands up and say we are just not quite as good as City and Arsenal. Its fine, as long as we are on the course to getting better.

[Son of Spion]

It's a good point. I can't be arsed reading all the way back, but someone said, even as a fan I'm knackered. Just watching some of the stuff and the pressers etc, without the football

I'm knackered too. It's been a hell of a ride, for us and for Klopp. I think we all need a rest and a reset.

[Nick110581]

I dont see why Klopp’s decision to announce him leaving is being criticised. A lot of people thought we would struggle to get top four. Instead we have challenged until late April and won a cup. Its a good season.

This is just one of those cases where we just have to hold our hands up and say we are just not quite as good as City and Arsenal. Its fine, as long as we are on the course to getting better.

Didn’t he have to announce it as it was going to be leaked ?

[killer-heels]

Didn’t he have to announce it as it was going to be leaked ?

Yep. But also how do we go about approaching managers in the meantime. If klopp says he wants to keep it quiet until May then we have to sit on our hands.

[Caligula?]

I dont see why Klopp’s decision to announce him leaving is being criticised. A lot of people thought we would struggle to get top four. Instead we have challenged until late April and won a cup. Its a good season.

This is just one of those cases where we just have to hold our hands up and say we are just not quite as good as City and Arsenal. Its fine, as long as we are on the course to getting better.

What people may think is irrelevant. Yes, if you had offered us that after last season's nightmare most of us would have taken it. But it's obvious that the squad was far better than what we saw last season and we severely underperformed. With a few new additions we became a title-challenging side so to just go back to the beginning of the season or even the end of last and say well we'd all have taken a trophy and 4th is a bit of a cop out I think.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I dont see why Klopp’s decision to announce him leaving is being criticised. A lot of people thought we would struggle to get top four. Instead we have challenged until late April and won a cup. Its a good season.

This is just one of those cases where we just have to hold our hands up and say we are just not quite as good as City and Arsenal. Its fine, as long as we are on the course to getting better.

"I dont see why Klopp’s decision to announce him leaving is being criticised."

No one is. He has an absolute right to be leaving and he's been immense for us. No one is having at go at him for making this decision.

[Nick110581]

Yep. But also how do we go about approaching managers in the meantime. If klopp says he wants to keep it quiet until May then we have to sit on our hands.

Maybe the news of last few weeks has impacted form.

Previously, we were cocky about it and all the uncertainty can’t help.

[killer-heels]

What people may think is irrelevant. Yes, if you had offered us that after last season's nightmare most of us would have taken it. But it's obvious that the squad was far better than what we saw last season and we severely underperformed. With a few new additions we became a title-challenging side so to just go back to the beginning of the season or even the end of last and say well we'd all have taken a trophy and 4th is a bit of a cop out I think.

Even with the signings can we really say we are as good as Arsenal and City? Honestly? Plus what we are likely to do is finish third but not very far off the top. For me, we have performed to our level this season.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Interesting to feel other people's pulse on this one. Cheers for the reply.

I wasn't in the ground last night. I had a family meal booked in town. We saw the second half in the pub. Grim stuff.

It does feel like the end of an era. But a new dawn always follows. You know that as much as anyone. We'll all be back. Maybe we just all need a rest and a reset.

Indeed. Don't feel like going at all again this season, but I will be and still be backing the Reds.

I clapped the lads off yesterday and had a few agressive Everton stewards trying to push me out, but I fucked them off and clapped the team off the pitch.

The weird thing was that the Everton fans near me (I was near the divide) were having a go at the fans going out, but none of them had a go at me and a head steward fucked off the dickheads trying to get me to leave.

Always, always clap the team off. Win. Lose or Draw.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Even with the signings can we really say we are as good as Arsenal and City? Honestly? Plus what we are likely to do is finish third but not very far off the top. For me, we have performed to our level this season.

It's all about putting the pieces together. We put some of them together, gone forward, and finishing where we want to be for that. This summer we have to put more of them together, and season after probably even more. Hopefully with all that together we have a team winning the league

[killer-heels]

It's all about putting the pieces together. We put some of them together, gone forward, and finishing where we want to be for that. This summer we have to put more of them together, and season after probably even more. Hopefully with all that together we have a team winning the league

We had four big opponents this season in Everton, Arsenal, City and Man United and we have only won one of those 8 games. Having said that the margins were small but in the key moments we were not ruthless at either ends of the field.

[Jookie]

I was devastated when Klopp announced his departure and I couldn’t understand it. I’m more accepting of it now though, the reasons he cited for quitting - that he was mentally and physically exhausted - have been increasingly reflected in our performances and his demeanour. He saw it coming and he told us such when externally he seemed rejuvenated. With that in mind, I think it is right for change.

Completely agree.

For Klopp, the person, it’s hard to argue based on the available information that leaving the job is the best thing. No-one would argue that isn’t the right thing given what Klopp has given the club.

From a purely sporting perspective, imo keeping Klopp to continue the development  of this team would be the ideal option.

Given the current set of results I think  there’ll be hints from some that think the change in manager might be the best thing from a purely sporting perspective. That we need some freshness in approach and tactics to get this team over the line.

[Caligula?]

Even with the signings can we really say we are as good as Arsenal and City? Honestly? Plus what we are likely to do is finish third but not very far off the top. For me, we have performed to our level this season.

We aren't as good as them. But at the end of the day we stayed in a title race until April. There was hope even if it was a fool's hope and that's why a lot of people are disappointed. If the title was gone say around November it'd obviously be easier to take.

[killer-heels]

We aren't as good as them. But at the end of the day we stayed in a title race until April. There was hope even if it was a fool's hope and that's why a lot of people are disappointed. If the title was gone say around November it'd obviously be easier to take.

Easier to take but then we would be miles off them. Yesterday was utter shite but we have to be accepting of this being a good season for us. Ultimately its all about the goal and the steps you are willing to take to get there. Jurgen did his bit and now the club have to look to make that next step.

[hide5seek]

It's not a good season when you're leading the title  race  and throw it away without a fight.
People can lie to themselves all they want but this is not a good season.
It was in the players  hands and they threw it away.
This on the players.
They should be  ashamed but I expect their big wage packets will comfort them.

[killer-heels]

It's not a good season when you're leading the title  race  and throw it away without a fight.
People can lie to themselves all they want but this is not a good season.
It was in the players  hands and they threw it away.
This on the players.
They should be  ashamed but I expect their big wage packets will comfort them.

We were only ever one game ahead in terms of a result.

[Caligula?]

Easier to take but then we would be miles off them. Yesterday was utter shite but we have to be accepting of this being a good season for us. Ultimately its all about the goal and the steps you are willing to take to get there. Jurgen did his bit and now the club have to look to make that next step.

I don't disagree. All I'm saying is that I think it's normal that some people will be reacting more emotionally than others and that the atmosphere in the ground is almost dead as Andy said given the promise of just a few weeks ago to the reality of today.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

It's not a good season when you're leading the title  race  and throw it away without a fight.

Yeah, there's plenty to be positive about this season, but I'm really not here for the "we'd all have taken this position at the start of the season" shouts to be honest. Dropping points in one or two games during the run-in like in 18-19 and 22-23 is a shrug shoulders, take plenty of pride moment. The way we have capitulated in the past month against some very average teams certainly isn't.

[wah00ey]

We still kind of wobbled on, but since that protest the fans have gone. Me and my mates were saying that it wasn't the same once he was off.

The silence and the protest stopped the fans from getting behind the manager and the team. That hasn't returned. Not sure if you were at Goodison yesterday, but the Everton fans singing our Support was fucking shite weren't wrong. We were pretty silent. Any backing at Anfield - where we lost twice and any backing yesterday - where we lost again didn't come back.

We were shite. Klopp is off. We had momentum in the team. That's gone. We have no support from the stands.

Not sure I can be even arsed going to the last two games at Anfield. What's the fucking point?

You will though! (Go to the last 2 games ;-))

[MonsLibpool]

We were only ever one game ahead in terms of a result.

Not winning isn't the issue. It's completely unravelling when the pressure was on.

[Sharado]

.

Not sure I can be even arsed going to the last two games at Anfield. What's the fucking point?

I'll have your tickets mate DM me.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You will though! (Go to the last 2 games ;-))

Yeah and still support the lads.

Mugs us fans

[killer-heels]

Not winning isn't the issue. It's completely unravelling when the pressure was on.

Pressure can do that if you are not fully 100% there. Look at Arsenal last season or even the season before.

[MonsLibpool]

Pressure can do that if you are not fully 100% there. Look at Arsenal last season or even the season before.

That where the doubt comes from. Our performances in the run-in have been a joke to be honest. It begs the questions as to whether some of our players are good enough at the highest level.

Arsenal unravelled last season and they've sold/phased out a few players since.

[killer-heels]

That where the doubt comes from. Our performances in the run-in have been a joke to be honest. It begs the questions as to whether some of our players are good enough at the highest level.

Arsenal unravelled last season and they've sold/phased out a few players since.

I have said before that we are still a little bit short of top quality. I had us finishing 3rd or at best 2nd at the start of the season and I have been consistent in my opinions of the squad, its strengths and its limitations. Overall I am happy with the season and feel we have met expectations. Now its about taking the next step and if I hear stuff around minimal incomings or focus being on contracts then ill scream.

[Avens]

"I dont see why Klopp’s decision to announce him leaving is being criticised."

No one is. He has an absolute right to be leaving and he's been immense for us. No one is having at go at him for making this decision.

Apart from those who are blaming the dip in form on his announcement. Argue semantics all you want, Andy, but that's exactly what you're doing.

[filopastry]

Its actually amazing, in a painful way, just how few players are in any kind of form at present, I doubt there are many players at present that any of us feel confident about putting in a good 8/10 performance at the start of a game, a lot of players

Just a very painful way to end the Klopp era, he deserves a hell of a lot better.

[Macc77]

We still kind of wobbled on, but since that protest the fans have gone. Me and my mates were saying that it wasn't the same once he was off.

The silence and the protest stopped the fans from getting behind the manager and the team. That hasn't returned. Not sure if you were at Goodison yesterday, but the Everton fans singing our Support was fucking shite weren't wrong. We were pretty silent. Any backing at Anfield - where we lost twice and any backing yesterday - where we lost again didn't come back.

We were shite. Klopp is off. We had momentum in the team. That's gone. We have no support from the stands.

Not sure I can be even arsed going to the last two games at Anfield. What's the fucking point?

I think the two stages combined makes more sense. After the announcement I think the mood was pretty much "let's get this done now" and the Luton game (for example) was very much Anfield at its best chasing down the winner at 1-1, and then of course Wembley. There was still very much a feeling that we could compete for a title at that stage, and in the short term the announcement seemed to galvanise everyone
 
But I agree, it was built on momentum, and once it shifted the reality of him leaving and this era coming to an end changed the mood quickly, and the Atalanta home game marked a sea change off the field.

I think on the field it's never been the same since the Utd cup tie. We'd been on a run, the team was starting to give the vibe that it was unbeatable, then it lost, and lost at the worst place. It all changed, the momentum and confidence had gone.

[jillcwhomever]

Indeed. Don't feel like going at all again this season, but I will be and still be backing the Reds.

I clapped the lads off yesterday and had a few agressive Everton stewards trying to push me out, but I fucked them off and clapped the team off the pitch.

The weird thing was that the Everton fans near me (I was near the divide) were having a go at the fans going out, but none of them had a go at me and a head steward fucked off the dickheads trying to get me to leave.

Always, always clap the team off. Win. Lose or Draw.

Good for you Andy and your absolutely right as well.