Topic: Darwin Núñez (Darwin Gabriel Núñez Ribeiro)

[elkun]

How is it tosh? I've not seen anything as accurate since I had my fortune read and it said I'd die alone.

[Knight]

In this thread Núñez is both being criticised for only scoring against the dross and being criticised for being bad against low blocks where he doesn’t get space in behind. So yes, it’s not a very good thread.

[Cpt_Reina]

In this thread Núñez is both being criticised for only scoring against the dross and being criticised for being bad against low blocks where he doesn’t get space in behind. So yes, it’s not a very good thread.

The dross don't necessarily play a low block though do they?

Do you associate a low block with Kompany's Burnley? Brentford? Bournemouth? Forest?

These are all teams that would probably be doing much much better if they actually did employ a low block, which they don't.

[Knight]

Huh? The vast majority of teams we play against spend a lot of time sitting deep against us.

[Eeyore]

Nunez since he has been here has scored against the likes of City, Arsenal, United, Newcastle, Real Madrid and Napoli. For Uruguay in that time he has scored against Argentina, Brazil and Colombia.

Only scores against shit teams though.

[Eeyore]

Give over Al. We took a calculated risk in signing him hoping he'd improve and he didn't. We have given him two seasons of support and he's no better now than day one.

Hes had a few flashes of brilliance but he doesn't deliver anywhere near as mud as we need if we want to be fighting for trophies.

He has failed. It is sad but it's a fact.

We have fought for trophies and actually won one this season. For me, we signed him when we were expecting Salah to leave. I think the only time we can fully judge him is in a team when it is set up to play to his strengths.

[killer-heels]

We have fought for trophies and actually won one this season. For me, we signed him when we were expecting Salah to leave. I think the only time we can fully judge him is in a team when it is set up to play to his strengths.

Its going to take one really brave manager to build a team around Nunez.

[RyanBabel19]

Give over Al. We took a calculated risk in signing him hoping he'd improve and he didn't. We have given him two seasons of support and he's no better now than day one.

Hes had a few flashes of brilliance but he doesn't deliver anywhere near as mud as we need if we want to be fighting for trophies.

He has failed. It is sad but it's a fact.

It’s not true at all he’s no better than day one though, not at all

[MonsLibpool]

The point of spending big on any player is to get an instant impact.

We spent big on Virg & Alisson and the difference was clear from day one. This is a big money number 9 that is still a question mark going into his THIRD season.

It's mind-boggling considering the fact we've committed £85m to his transfer. You don't spend that kind of money on a project.

[elkun]

Its going to take one really brave manager to build a team around Nunez.

If your going to build a team around him. U need to play to his strenght. The main question is, what is his main quality to build around it

[killer-heels]

If your going to build a team around him. U need to play to his strenght. The main question is, what is his main quality to build around it

Well his best ability is his pace and his ability to stretch teams, so maybe players like Mac Allister and Trent in midfield who can get the ball to him with quality. Probably need another close to him either just behind or a strike partner. Probably need wingers to create the space for him as well and wingers who keep the width.

[PaleBlueDot]

Its going to take one really brave manager to build a team around Nunez.

Slot's 9 needs to be able to play. The two wingers are often the furthest forward. Gakpo has way more of a chance in that position.

[elkun]

Well his best ability is his pace and his ability to stretch teams, so maybe players like Mac Allister and Trent in midfield who can get the ball to him with quality. Probably need another close to him either just behind or a strike partner. Probably need wingers to create the space for him as well and wingers who keep the width.

He will probably miscontrol the ball because of his bad first touch or miss most of the chances he will get from them. So in essence i hope to god that no head coach will be dumb enough to build a team around him.

[MonsLibpool]

He will probably miscontrol the ball because of his bad first touch or miss most of the chances he will get from them. So in essence i hope to god that no head coach will be dumb enough to build a team around him.

He'll be offside 3 times out of 10
Miscontrol it 3 times out of 10
Miss a sitter 2 times out of 10 (sometimes shooting off target)
Score 2 times out of 10.

Build around the above? Nope.

We have a genuine world class player who happens to be a local lad that we can build around.

[farawayred]

We have fought for trophies and actually won one this season. For me, we signed him when we were expecting Salah to leave. I think the only time we can fully judge him is in a team when it is set up to play to his strengths.

What's that, Al, a counter-attacking low-block team? And he'd still miss 50% of those chances (he had a few already).

[PaleBlueDot]

Well his best ability is his pace and his ability to stretch teams, so maybe players like Mac Allister and Trent in midfield who can get the ball to him with quality. Probably need another close to him either just behind or a strike partner. Probably need wingers to create the space for him as well and wingers who keep the width.

I don't know if many realise but risky long ball football isn't Slot's style. Don't think he will change that even for Trent's right foot. It will be progressive build-up. Slot's 9 needs to play.

[Mr Dilkington]

I don't know if many realise but risky long ball football isn't Slot's style. Don't think he will change that even for Trent's right foot. It will be progressive build-up. Slot's 9 needs to play.

What does this mean in real terms?

Darwin this season is averaging 22 passes a game, completing 71%. He is playing 2.2 progressive passes per game and is at 0.23 xA.

Feyenoord's primary number 9 is averaging 15 passes a game with a 67% completion rate. He is playing 1.4 progressive passes per game and is at 0.13 xA.

[robertobaggio37]

Thanks man.
That is scarilly accurate.

The consensus here and in other places before he was signed was pretty much this. A risky signing for a big fee. It was all there and concerns were voiced. Not even a hindsight to be honest.

[PaleBlueDot]

What does this mean in real terms?

Darwin this season is averaging 22 passes a game, completing 71%. He is playing 2.2 progressive passes per game and is at 0.23 xA.

Feyenoord's primary number 9 is averaging 15 passes a game with a 67% completion rate. He is playing 1.4 progressive passes per game and is at 0.13 xA.

I meant it in reply to running in behind and stretching teams. He wouldn't get the long balls over the top to chase that he gets now in Slots team. It's much more progressive and controlled up the pitch.

 

[Buster Gonad]

He'll be offside 3 times out of 10
Miscontrol it 3 times out of 10
Miss a sitter 2 times out of 10 (sometimes shooting off target)
Score 2 times out of 10.

Build around the above? Nope.

We have a genuine world class player who happens to be a local lad that we can build around.

Nothing to do with Nunez but who is that lad?

[RedG13]

Dropped again. As he no doubt would have been for the Derby has Gakpo and Jota been available.

Took less than 2 seasons for him to blow through all of the goodwill Klopp had for him seemingly.

Fresh start this summer for all ofc, but it's not a good look.

He played 90 minutes midweek and this a short rest game. the 5 changes where more about injury prevention then dropping etc.

[MonsLibpool]

Nothing to do with Nunez but who is that lad?

Trent Alexander-Arnold

[Eeyore]

Dropped again. As he no doubt would have been for the Derby has Gakpo and Jota been available.

Took less than 2 seasons for him to blow through all of the goodwill Klopp had for him seemingly.

Fresh start this summer for all ofc, but it's not a good look.

He has the most appearances of any player this season.

[Mr Dilkington]

I meant it in reply to running in behind and stretching teams. He wouldn't get the long balls over the top to chase that he gets now in Slots team. It's much more progressive and controlled up the pitch.

Most of his chances aren't from long balls though? We face a lot of low-blocks and he is elite at getting chances for himself against such setups.

Haven't watched a lot of Slot's Feyenoord myself but I don't think we've hired him because his football philosophy is completely different to Klopp's, on the contrary in fact.

We can see Slot's preferred 9 at Feyenoord is considerably less effective in possession than Darwin (in a much, much easier league) so I personally don't see how it would be an issue.

[JasonF]

He'll be offside 3 times out of 10
Miscontrol it 3 times out of 10
Miss a sitter 2 times out of 10 (sometimes shooting off target)
Score 2 times out of 10.

Build around the above? Nope.

We have a genuine world class player who happens to be a local lad that we can build around.

2 goals every 10 chances is pretty damn good. Messi averages over 5 shots per goal and Ronaldo over 6 shots per goal. I think you could safely build a team around that level of production.

[Eeyore]

I meant it in reply to running in behind and stretching teams. He wouldn't get the long balls over the top to chase that he gets now in Slots team. It's much more progressive and controlled up the pitch.

 

Did you miss Benfica having 64% possession at home and 57% possession away in 21/22 when Nunez scored 26 goals in 28 games. Slot's team pressing really high up the pitch and attacking before teams get set would be perfect for Nunez.

[PaleBlueDot]

Most of his chances aren't from long balls though? We face a lot of low-blocks and he is elite at getting chances for himself against such setups.

Haven't watched a lot of Slot's Feyenoord myself but I don't think we've hired him because his football philosophy is completely different to Klopp's, on the contrary in fact.

We can see Slot's preferred 9 at Feyenoord is considerably less effective in possession than Darwin (in a much, much easier league) so I personally don't see how it would be an issue.

You're in for a surprise because the only similarity is a close enough formation and heavy pressing without the ball. On the ball, unless won high up the pitch which they're good at, it's actually not get the ball 'forward and fast'. There is a an obsession with control and a methodical approach to opening up the space that the wingers at the top of the pitch can exploit. It's not quite City level but it certainly differs from how we play now.

[rawcusk8]

18 goals 12 assists in 54 games, imagine the numbers if he wasn’t totally shit.

[Jwils21]

His reputation (which is hugely over exaggerated) preceded him today, when Coufal put the ball out but the officials immediately assumed it was a miss.

[LiverBirdKop]

We have fought for trophies and actually won one this season. For me, we signed him when we were expecting Salah to leave. I think the only time we can fully judge him is in a team when it is set up to play to his strengths.

we're f-ed if the new head coach/manager tries to build  his team around him.

[Mr Dilkington]

You're in for a surprise because the only similarity is a close enough formation and heavy pressing without the ball. On the ball, unless won high up the pitch which they're good at, it's actually not get the ball 'forward and fast'. There is a an obsession with control and a methodical approach to opening up the space that the wingers at the top of the pitch can exploit. It's not quite City level but it certainly differs from how we play now.

Just checked this out of interest.

Feyenoord average 62% possession and complete 85% of their passes.

Liverpool average 62% possession and complete 86% of their passes.

[elkun]

His reputation (which is hugely over exaggerated) preceded him today, when Coufal put the ball out but the officials immediately assumed it was a miss.

[PaleBlueDot]

Just checked this out of interest.

Feyenoord average 62% possession and complete 85% of their passes.

Liverpool average 62% possession and complete 86% of their passes.

Okay and? I never said we'd have more possession. How we use the ball will be different.

[Eeyore]

You're in for a surprise because the only similarity is a close enough formation and heavy pressing without the ball. On the ball, unless won high up the pitch which they're good at, it's actually not get the ball 'forward and fast'. There is a an obsession with control and a methodical approach to opening up the space that the wingers at the top of the pitch can exploit. It's not quite City level but it certainly differs from how we play now.

How about the times they do win the ball high up the pitch?

As for City is that the team who play with Haaland as a out and out 9 who rarely gets involved in the build up.?

[Eeyore]

Just checked this out of interest.

Feyenoord average 62% possession and complete 85% of their passes.

Liverpool average 62% possession and complete 86% of their passes.

So about the same as Benfica when Nunez was ripping up the League.

[PaleBlueDot]

How about the times they do win the ball high up the pitch?

As for City is that the team who play with Haaland as a out and out 9 who rarely gets involved in the build up.?

I did say they win the ball high up the pitch a lot. I personally wouldn't trust Nunez's decision making when we do.

Secondly, Haaland will probably be Premier League top scorer two seasons in a row. If Nunez was hitting those numbers nobody would care if the ball came off his shins in the build-up.

And I dare someone to say Haaland gets more chances 

[Eeyore]

I did say they win the ball high up the pitch a lot. I personally wouldn't trust Nunez's decision making when we do.

Secondly, Haaland will probably be Premier League top scorer two seasons in a row. If Nunez was hitting those numbers nobody would care if the ball came off his shins in the build-up.

And I dare someone to say Haaland gets more chances 

The thing is you don't trust Nunez to do anything. You don't trust him to lead our attack, you don't trust him to counter attack and you don't trust him against a low block.

The thing is the stats don't back that up. For his two seasons at Liverpool he has been pretty much bang on a League goal every 180 minutes. So a goal every other game if he played the full 90 every week. So around 19 League goals per season despite not being a regular penalty taker for us.

At Benfica in his second season he scored a League goal every 76 minutes which is prolific.

So from the age of 21-24 he has scored a League goal every 123 minutes. So if he played 90 minutes in every game he would average out at just under 28 League goals per season from the age of 21-24.

Amazing how a player you wouldn't trust to play in an under 9's 5 a side has a record like that?

[PaleBlueDot]

The thing is you don't trust Nunez to do anything. You don't trust him to lead our attack, you don't trust him to counter attack and you don't trust him against a low block.

The thing is the stats don't back that up. For his two seasons at Liverpool he has been pretty much bang on a League goal every 180 minutes. So a goal every other game if he played the full 90 every week. So around 19 League goals per season despite not being a regular penalty taker for us.

At Benfica in his second season he scored a League goal every 76 minutes which is prolific.

So from the age of 21-24 he has scored a League goal every 123 minutes. So if he played 90 minutes in every game he would average out at just under 28 League goals per season from the age of 21-24.

Amazing how a player you wouldn't trust to play in an under 9's 5 a side has a record like that?

Exaggerating much hah. I don't think Nunez is shite. I think he's okay...and is probably one of my favourite personalities in the team. Looks calm off the pitch but a madman on it. Gives his all. If I could wave a magic wand and have one player succeed I'd pick him. I just don't think he's good enough to lead Liverpool's attack. No hate on the fella.

Stats are stats but nothing beats the eye test + context.

[Cpt_Reina]

The thing is you don't trust Nunez to do anything. You don't trust him to lead our attack, you don't trust him to counter attack and you don't trust him against a low block.

The thing is the stats don't back that up. For his two seasons at Liverpool he has been pretty much bang on a League goal every 180 minutes. So a goal every other game if he played the full 90 every week. So around 19 League goals per season despite not being a regular penalty taker for us.

At Benfica in his second season he scored a League goal every 76 minutes which is prolific.

So from the age of 21-24 he has scored a League goal every 123 minutes. So if he played 90 minutes in every game he would average out at just under 28 League goals per season from the age of 21-24.

Amazing how a player you wouldn't trust to play in an under 9's 5 a side has a record like that?

But he isn't scoring 19 league goals a season is he?! He has 20 league goals TOTAL between his two seasons.

The per90 stats don't work like that in reality do they? He's not playing 90mins every game, nobody does. And he's not scoring 19 league goals a season despite what the per90 stats claim, he's scoring an average of 10 goals a season.

What are we doing here? Seriously.

People are sacrificing actual factual output in favour of theoretical output and somehow claiming the high ground?

If Darwin's underlying numbers are so elite why aren't they translating to league goals? If they're so good why isn't he *actually* scoring more? If he doesn't have issues with putting the ball in the net why doesn't he have more than 9 league goals last year and 11 this? Bad luck? That's what all the analysis and incredibly detailed number crunching comes down to? Just bad luck? Not very scientific.

Could it perhaps be because, just possibly, just maybe, there are elements in his play that the numbers you're looking at aren't showing?Could it possibly be because they're interpretive but not necessarily 100% transferable to the reality of what we're actually seeing from him?

[MD1990]

i still fully back him. He will get form again strikers peak at 26-29