Topic: Liverpool's defence - Giraffes, Walls and Automobiles

[JackWard33]

Another clean sheet for Matip and Lovren in a back 4. Still unbeaten together as a centre back pair in the league - conceding less than a goal a game

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Another clean sheet for Matip and Lovren in a back 4. Still unbeaten together as a centre back pair in the league - conceding less than a goal a game

We'd be much higher up in the table had they not missed the matches they have.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

You really do get ahead of yourself. You do know Van Dijk will be wanted by City and Chelsea in the summer?

Doesn't mean he will sign for them.

[Fromola]

We'd be much higher up in the table had they not missed the matches they have.

A settled back four makes a big difference with goals against. Added to an actual DM in the team with Lucas and a goalkeeper full of confidence playing well.

The absence of these three things is when and why we struggle.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

We didn't really see a back three today though did we?

Mostly it was a back four with Lucas only dropping back to make a five when we were under pressure.

It was a very fluid formation..

It was a back 3 for long periods in the game. When we were building up, Lucas was the deepest player most of the time, with Matip and Lovren Flanking him. It was remarkable how wide our CBs were through the game.

[Chalky Boots]

A settled back four makes a big difference with goals against. Added to an actual DM in the team with Lucas and a goalkeeper full of confidence playing well.

The absence of these three things is when and why we struggle.

I still can't help but be a little bit vexed over these proper DM shouts. Like is there a certain cut off point in your career where you shall be shunned by all because you didn't transition to one before it?

[kingz]

We need at least 4 new additions to our defense and a DM all with a good injury record .. Eight teams conceded less goals than us , not good enough at all ..

[SerbianScouser]

We need at least 4 new additions to our defense and a DM all with a good injury record .. Eight teams conceded less goals than us , not good enough at all ..

We have two top class DMs. What we need is better back up CBs, that's why we conceded so many.

[cdav]

I see Ryan Sessegnon has scored again for Fulham, looks an incredible prospect still aged 16. We have been heavily linked with him for next year as understudy for Milner but I think it would be hard for a youngster to play so much for us next year. I can't see Milner doing 40+ matches next year, could a 16 year old play a key position for 15+ games next year for us? Would be a hard decision but he does look incredible.

[reddebs]

Watching the Fulham v Villa game and young Sessegnon has just scored to put them 1-0 up.

Left foot volley from the left corner of the 6yd box hit the bar and he followed up the rebound.

No idea what position he's playing as they seem to have Malone playing lb but they could be playing 3 at the back with Ryan at wingback.

I can't be arsed to change my Tapatalk settings because my time is more important than yours

[kingz]

We have two top class DMs. What we need is better back up CBs, that's why we conceded so many.

We will struggle if we did that .. Stability is important too .. With the current players we have our defense will be always changing ..

[rickardinho1]

I see Ryan Sessegnon has scored again for Fulham, looks an incredible prospect still aged 16. We have been heavily linked with him for next year as understudy for Milner but I think it would be hard for a youngster to play so much for us next year. I can't see Milner doing 40+ matches next year, could a 16 year old play a key position for 15+ games next year for us? Would be a hard decision but he does look incredible.

15 games isn't all that much.

5 could be in the league cup
5 could be in the FA cup
5-10 could be in games scheduled before or after CL games against promoted and bottom half sides (some of whom he's already excelling against this season).

The only issue would be if Milner got injured and we had a 17 year old LB against Robben/Bale/etc in a potential CL tie but at this stage that's scratching the barrel a bit as Milner hardly ever gets injured, and we haven't even got CL football yet.

[Eeyore]

I still can't help but be a little bit vexed over these proper DM shouts. Like is there a certain cut off point in your career where you shall be shunned by all because you didn't transition to one before it?

It's about when you develop defensive instincts for me and when tracking runners becomes a natural thing to do. For me we don't have anyone who does that unless Lucas plays.

[owens_2k]

Cant see FSG allowing us to spend £50m on a defender.

[rickardinho1]

Cant see FSG allowing us to spend £50m on a defender.

FSG have been quoted as saying that we could compete with anyone for the top players (if there was value), and Van Dijk/Koulibaly would be such a scenario.

Secondly, I highly doubt the fee any club would agree with Southampton would actually be £50m. Rather, that fee sounds like media hype, and his actual fee would probably be closer to £40m than £50m. For comparison, John Stones cost £47m, but he was only 21 and the fee includes the English premium.

If Southampton play hardball then I'm sure we could just move on to Koulibaly, where it surely wouldn't take more than €50m (£42m) to sign him.

[owens_2k]

FSG have been quoted as saying that we could compete with anyone for the top players (if there was value), and Van Dijk/Koulibaly would be such a scenario.

Secondly, I highly doubt the fee any club would agree with Southampton would actually be £50m. Rather, that fee sounds like media hype, and his actual fee would probably be closer to £40m than £50m. For comparison, John Stones cost £47m, but he was only 21 and the fee includes the English premium.

If Southampton play hardball then I'm sure we could just move on to Koulibaly, where it surely wouldn't take more than €50m (£42m) to sign him.

I personally don't see any value in paying premium prices for defenders. Attackers yes but defenders just dont seem worth it to me.

[paddysour]

I wonder if Flanagan will be back in the squad next season? If the rumours are true we'll be having TAA and Sessenyong as backup fullbacks which mentioned above isn't ideal as they are so young. Flanagan can cover either side and is the only Club home grown player over 21 that we have - we need 4 for CL registration (or Flanagan plus 3 blank slots in the squad).

Flanagan might not be very good but it doesn't cost us a squad place to keep him around in case of emergencies.

[rickardinho1]

I wonder if Flanagan will be back in the squad next season? If the rumours are true we'll be having TAA and Sessenyong as backup fullbacks which mentioned above isn't ideal as they are so young. Flanagan can cover either side and is the only Club home grown player over 21 that we have - we need 4 for CL registration (or Flanagan plus 3 blank slots in the squad).

Flanagan might not be very good but it doesn't cost us a squad place to keep him around in case of emergencies.

In case of an emergency at LB we'd simply play Clyne there, and TAA at RB
In case of an emergency at RB we'd simply play Milner there, and the new LB at LB.

Gomez can also cover either RB or LB in an emergency too, and so too could Can.

Flanagan isn't significantly better than Trent at this stage, if at all, and it would be pointless to give him games ahead of Trent as that would just block Trent's development.

It would surprise me if he wasn't sold this summer, probably to a club in the Championship or bottom of the PL at best. He couldn't break into Burnley's team which is quite telling really.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Cant see FSG allowing us to spend £50m on a defender.

If that defender is the difference between winning and not winning the Premier League, I can easily see FSG spending £50 million on a defender.

[owens_2k]

If that defender is the difference between winning and not winning the Premier League, I can easily see FSG spending £50 million on a defender.

They better invest in a crystal ball too then.

[PeterTheRed ...]

They better invest in a crystal ball too then.

They don't need a crystal ball. If the manager thinks so, they will back him.

[kingz]

Cant see FSG allowing us to spend £50m on a defender.

They don't care. Net spend is the important thing for them if its low then its OK..

[rickardinho1]

They don't care. Net spend is the important thing for them if its low then its OK..

We had a net spend of -£15m last summer, when rivals had a net spend of £100-150m.

Sales of Sakho, Sturridge, Moreno, Lucas, etc could net up to £60m, meaning that before a single player is signed this summer the club is looking at -£75m net spend across the last two summers... and with only 5 positions* needed to be filled there's absolutely no reason why big money shouldn't be made available to Klopp for those 5 signings to make the team competitive.

*CB, LB, CM, AM, RW

[joekim87]

I hope we do sign Ryan Sessegnon because he'd be wasted at Utd or Chelsea... Probably a big chance he'll ruin his career. Arsenal aren't as strong as they used to be and I think Southampton, Man City or we'd be the best place for him to grow into a world-class player. Surely that has to play a factor.

[rickardinho1]

I hope we do sign Ryan Sessegnon because he'd be wasted at Utd or Chelsea... Probably a big chance he'll ruin his career. Arsenal aren't as strong as they used to be and I think Southampton, Man City or we'd be the best place for him to grow into a world-class player. Surely that has to play a factor.

Chelsea could do with a backup for Alonso, and if he joined them he wouldn't have to leave his friends and family by staying in the same area. I'm sure they'd pay him pretty well too.

Similarly, Man City need homegrown players and a leftback so figure to throw some big offers at him too.

That said, in purely football terms, stylistically his best fit would probably be Liverpool, where he would be allowed the freedom to get forward and play his natural game under a very attacking manager who is known to trust young players. At Chelsea there's also the risk of stagnating behind a big-money signing, whereas with Klopp there is a very clear route to the first team, as he'd presumably gradually be taking over from Milner who is 32.

Whatever happens it's good to see the club being so proactive about signing up top young English players. The back 4 could be mostly English soon if we signed Sessegnon and Trent + Gomez develop as expected.

[rawcusk8]

Back with a bang.. individual mistakes aswell as collective mistakes. for that corner to make it past so many players and be tapped in is just criminal. Klopp has had 3 windows to do something about it yet nothing has changed. I cant recall another side in the top half that gives goals away so cheaply. Headed goals and set pieces we just cant cope, it's not rocket science.

[Giono]

Silver lining defensively against Palace: Klopp subbed Milner, Clyne and Lovren. 
If we upgraded just those three players in the summer we'd be such a better team.

[Youb]

Emre was marking Benteke,  then let him go.  Passed him onto the defence? Who knows.  Yes the ball should not have got through.

[rawcusk8]

Emre was marking Benteke,  then let him go.  Passed him onto the defence? Who knows.  Yes the ball should not have got through.

But it's all of them mate, fucking hell it went past how many. Emre was terrible for just letting Benteke past. The corner was badly mishit, it nutmegs Firminho gets past a bunch of our lads. Not one of them taking responsibility. It's just so fucking annoying, we never learn.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Centerhalves and fullbacks, please sign them.

[Ste08]

The fact Lovren is being rewarded with a new contract for his mistake ridden play, there is no accountability back there

[Groundskeeper Willie]

But it's all of them mate, fucking hell it went past how many. Emre was terrible for just letting Benteke past. The corner was badly mishit, it nutmegs Firminho gets past a bunch of our lads. Not one of them taking responsibility. It's just so fucking annoying, we never learn.

I'm pointing this out again. There should have been no corner, if Dejan Lovren was a top 4 defender. But he's not. He can play for Everton.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

The fact Lovren is being rewarded with a new contract for his mistake ridden play, there is no accountability back there

I can't fathom that decision. He's so poor. Dreadful.

[killer-heels]

Lovren was never good enough to be first choice after his performances in the past 2-3 seasons. He is far, far too rash.

[rawcusk8]

Echo what you say about Lovren folks, he's not reliable enough to be a starter for us. Biggest criticism of Klopp/Fsg is that they know we have a woeful defence but did nothing to change it in January. Signing top players in champions league is hard but surely we should have moved heaven and earth for Van Dijk in January, he's at midtable plucky southampton, if anything we're good at buying from them yet we seemingly didnt bother and now will face a mammoth challenge in getting him.

[SerbianScouser]

Thing about Lovren is there is a difference between being a poor defender and being a poor defender in our team.

As we've seen from day one he has too much space to defend in our team and he's simply not good enough to do it - very few defenders are. It doesn't necessarily make him a poor defender, in my opinion if you put him in Luiz's place at Chelsea they still win the league with him, but just like Luiz he is gonna struggle if the space they have to defend is much bigger than when you're in a back 3.

It takes an elite decision making and ability to read the play in order to be error free defending in our team , or even City and Arsenal for that matter. It something we have to consider if we want to call him a poor defender which he isn't but we need better if we want to win the league playing with Klopp's style.

[Garnier]

As soon as the football gods realised Lovren + Matip were on an unbeaten run, they were quick to work their magic. Nothing better than a Benteke brace to kill the good mood around us.

Sometimes it feels like no matter who's defending, we'll still concede (no news here). A prime Nesta would look distinctively rubbish for us etcetera...

[harleydanger]

Thing about Lovren is there is a difference between being a poor defender and being a poor defender in our team.

As we've seen from day one he has too much space to defend in our team and he's simply not good enough to do it - very few defenders are. It doesn't necessarily make him a poor defender, in my opinion if you put him in Luiz's place at Chelsea they still win the league with him, but just like Luiz he is gonna struggle if the space they have to defend is much bigger than when you're in a back 3.

It takes an elite decision making and ability to read the play in order to be error free defending in our team , or even City and Arsenal for that matter. It something we have to consider if we want to call him a poor defender which he isn't but we need better if we want to win the league playing with Klopp's style.

Great post.

[harleydanger]

We had a net spend of -£15m last summer, when rivals had a net spend of £100-150m.

Sales of Sakho, Sturridge, Moreno, Lucas, etc could net up to £60m, meaning that before a single player is signed this summer the club is looking at -£75m net spend across the last two summers... and with only 5 positions* needed to be filled there's absolutely no reason why big money shouldn't be made available to Klopp for those 5 signings to make the team competitive.

*CB, LB, CM, AM, RW

If I wore a different shirt I would've got laid last night.

[Caston]

Sort the fucking defence out. I'd literally spend all our money on the back line and a midfielder, how many seasons now where we concede over 40 goals?