Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé

[BobPaisley3]

Can you remember the last title  winner without a top class DM? Probably United 10+ years ago. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel, we know what works.

That team had Michael Carrick, a massively underrated deep lying midfielder. He was excellent in that season where RVP won them the league.

[KC7]

That team had Michael Carrick, a massively underrated deep lying midfielder. He was excellent in that season where RVP won them the league.

When thinking about DMs (for most of the bloody season) was thinking about that United team with Carrick, such an anomaly. They did have Park Ji-sung (a Energizer bunny, and one who I thought we might be getting with Endo when Jurgen greeted him with "we need your legs", not quite) in that side who chased after anything that moved. Think it was Rio Ferdinand who thought Fergie got it wrong in the 2011 final by not sticking Park on Messi (not that I think would have done much good given how elusive Messi is). The two finals they played vs that Barca side by trying to go toe to toe with them was mental. Mourinho got it right in the season sandwiched between by stifling the crap out of the game and overpowering them in midfield and outrunning them. No DM vs Messi, Xavi and co. is pretty insane. The space Messi had for the second at Wembley to shoot against Van Der Sar, that's the DM zone. The pass Xavi made to pick out Pedro for the first, again it's that area infront of the defence you'd be expecting a DM to close off. Fergie got a real doing in those finals.

When Fabinho became physically shot overnight the effect on the team was immense. The "lighthouse" became "after you son". From putting out fires to handing out the matches. Already relegated Southampton running riot with run after run through the midfield at the end of the season just crowned it. Remember the effect on Real Madrid being enormous when Makelele left them in 2003. He wasn't "glamorous", no but he held the whole show together. Their team of superstars to a man maligned that sale and they became a disjointed mess for the next few seasons after that much like we have been for two seasons. It's remarkable that such a key position, pivotal, can be overlooked at times, one such blunder we have made.

[PaleBlueDot]

Ornstein dropped in the Athletic Podcast a few days ago that Kudus has a release clause. Probably more than the £38m they paid for him but not near Paqueta's £80m release clause. I'd guess somewhere in the £60-65m range. Edwards a massive fan. I would be very surprised if we didn't revisit that this summer and test West Ham.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Apparently, according the bbc gossip thingy, Geertruida was at the West Ham gam.

[TepidT2O]

Apparently, according the bbc gossip thingy, Geertruida was at the West Ham gam.

Not been mentioned on here mate

[Knight]

Ornstein dropped in the Athletic Podcast a few days ago that Kudus has a release clause. Probably more than the £38m they paid for him but not near Paqueta's £80m release clause. I'd guess somewhere in the £60-65m range. Edwards a massive fan. I would be very surprised if we didn't revisit that this summer and test West Ham.

He's been at West Ham under Moyes' negativity but he's not done anything to suggest he's worth more than what West Ham paid for him.

[Mr Dilkington]

Yep we won't go anywhere near Kudus.

[MD1990]

Kudus is a bit similar to Mane at southampton
i do think he will be great at a bigger club
a player that would make sense even at 60m.

[lionel_messias]

Yep we won't go anywhere near Kudus.

Thanks Michael Edwards. Can you provide a list of legitimate targets please?

[HeartAndSoul]

Looking at Mats Weiffer stats, he seems to be a complete midfielder. Seems to be excellent in defence and his attacking numbers are great too. I know it’s only the Dutch league and you need to be cautious with a player over there but the numbers are impressive. Wonder if he’ll be on the shortlist if (hopefully) we target a number 6 this summer.

https://fbref.com/en/players/4876c9ab/Mats-Wieffer

[killer-heels]

If you are going to sign players like Kudus, you dont sign him after he has made a big move. Since that big move he has been good but isnt good enough for us. It would be paying a premium for a decent player. We need better.

[MD1990]

Looking at Mats Weiffer stats, he seems to be a complete midfielder. Seems to be excellent in defence and his attacking numbers are great too. I know it’s only the Dutch league and you need to be cautious with a player over there but the numbers are impressive. Wonder if he’ll be on the shortlist if (hopefully) we target a number 6 this summer.

https://fbref.com/en/players/4876c9ab/Mats-Wieffer

we need to stay way from the eredivisie.
rwe need 2-3 big signings that can settle in quickly especially if we lose a big player
I can see us re signing all 3 of Trent,VVD, & Salah.

We have had enough players from abroad that are good but take time to settle.

Kudus & take advantage of PL teams who need to sell Wolves etc is where i think Edwards will look.
Hughes maybe take a look at Serie A too

[Mr Dilkington]

Thanks Michael Edwards. Can you provide a list of legitimate targets please?

It couldn't not be more obvious that Kudus won't be of interest to us. Just go look at his profile.

Statistically speaking he's the opposite of Firmino, Mane, Salah and Jota who were all signed under Edwards' watch.

[lionel_messias]

It couldn't not be more obvious that Kudus won't be of interest to us. Just go look at his profile.

Statistically speaking he's the opposite of Firmino, Mane, Salah and Jota who were all signed under Edwards' watch.

He is playing under David Moyes though?

[Barefoot Doctor]

He's been at West Ham under Moyes' negativity but he's not done anything to suggest he's worth more than what West Ham paid for him.

I thought he'd looked pretty good? Is it just a consistency thing? Think Paqueta is the true gem there but seems he'll be off to City depending on what happens with the gambling charges.

Looking at Mats Weiffer stats, he seems to be a complete midfielder. Seems to be excellent in defence and his attacking numbers are great too. I know it’s only the Dutch league and you need to be cautious with a player over there but the numbers are impressive. Wonder if he’ll be on the shortlist if (hopefully) we target a number 6 this summer.

https://fbref.com/en/players/4876c9ab/Mats-Wieffer

Wouldn't trust FBREF numbers for Dutch players. I remember looking at someone like Sangare, whose numbers (if they were in England) would have him in the world class bracket...

The way FBREF works, it splits mens football into two groups. The first is PL, Serie A, Ligue 1, Bundesliga, La Liga (and CL and EL) - so if you're a player in one of those leagues, you'll only be compared with players across those leagues/competitions. But if you're in Holland, you get compared to players in lesser leagues, so you end up looking great by comparison. It's basically all the second divisions of the big five leagues, plus top divisions in Portugal, Belgium, America, Mexico, Argentina and Brazil...

If you compared Wieffer to a holding mid in a top five league I'd imagine loads of those greens disappear... although maybe not!

[Mr Dilkington]

He is playing under David Moyes though?

It's true, and is likely playing some role in his numbers - not enough to be confident he'd be worth the money though.

Firmino, Mane, Salah, Jota were all guys with big xG numbers who were underperforming in front of goal, making them undervalued by the market. Kudus is the opposite of that - he is massively overperforming his xG this season and as a result is likely to be overrated by the market.

In terms of who he will go after, it's really difficult to say. There is no obvious slam dunk option ala Mane or Salah. I think we can be reasonably confident that if we sign a wide forward it'll be someone between 21-24 and someone from one of the top 5 leagues (this was a clear Edwards preference we moved away from with Diaz, Núñez and Gakpo).

When I look around the player that seems to fit most categories is Olise at Palace. But he potentially has hamstring issues so he might be off their board so to speak.

[Peabee]

We should sign Kudus just for the headline "Kudos ad Kudus" after a winner.

[[new username under construction]]

I always thought, "ahh for fucks sake, this guy is a pain in the ass" when playing Southampton and Mane. Don't get that wilh Kudus

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

If you are going to sign players like Kudus, you dont sign him after he has made a big move.

Don't really get this. Signing players after they've proved themselves at a higher level has pretty much been our MO. We're happy for players to move to the likes of West Ham and Southampton because then we know we will have another chance to sign them, at which point they'll be more of a sure thing.

[Mr Dilkington]

https://fbref.com/en/players/c4486bac/scout/12192/Michael-Olise-Scouting-Report

https://fbref.com/en/players/bc7dc64d/scout/12192/Bukayo-Saka-Scouting-Report

Olise's season is going under the radar. Doing this in your age 21-22 season is incredibly impressive.

[killer-heels]

Don't really get this. Signing players after they've proved themselves at a higher level has pretty much been our MO. We're happy for players to move to the likes of West Ham and Southampton because then we know we will have another chance to sign them, at which point they'll be more of a sure thing.

But thats the point, Kudus isnt a sure thing. I dont mind us paying a premium if he is really good, but Kudus isn't. He has made a big move and now we will get a decent attacker, not better than anyone we have, for an even higher premium.

He could have been a decent signing when he was at Ajax in that, he is of a level, but you pay a bit less than what West Ham want and see if he can develop.

[QC]

https://fbref.com/en/players/c4486bac/scout/12192/Michael-Olise-Scouting-Report

https://fbref.com/en/players/bc7dc64d/scout/12192/Bukayo-Saka-Scouting-Report

Olise's season is going under the radar. Doing this in your age 21-22 season is incredibly impressive.

Think Olise will be one of the most sought after players this window - he must be on loads of teams target list

[Draex]

Think Olise will be one of the most sought after players this window - he must be on loads of teams target list

Agree, and Arsenal / City seem stacked in those areas and he'll want a CL team..

[killer-heels]

Olise is fantastic and he has really upped his ability to get past full backs as well. He is not blistering pace wise and he does want to come to the ball, but he is a fantastic, creative minded winger.

He has had some hamstring issues and thats literally the only thing stopping teams rushing to buy him. But someone will buy him.

[robertobaggio37]

If you are going to sign players like Kudus, you dont sign him after he has made a big move. Since that big move he has been good but isnt good enough for us. It would be paying a premium for a decent player. We need better.

Inclined to agree. Kubo looks more likely imo.

[Asam]

If we’re looking at the clubs struggling financially then Gomes at Wolves would be a great capture, he was on our radar before Wolves got him and he’s proven himself to be a really good player-

[Egyptian36]

I have no idea why would anyone think Kudus is good enough for us after watching him play. Our target should be trying to have the best midfield in the world.

[Draex]

I have no idea why would anyone think Kudus is good enough for us after watching him play. Our target should be trying to have the best midfield in the world.

He's not good enough to lose to the AFCON.

[Asam]

Olise is fantastic and he has really upped his ability to get past full backs as well. He is not blistering pace wise and he does want to come to the ball, but he is a fantastic, creative minded winger.

He has had some hamstring issues and thats literally the only thing stopping teams rushing to buy him. But someone will buy him.

My only concerns are:

- Is he quick enough? when teams are sitting deep against us how can he get on behind/create the overloads we need?
- Does he work hard enough off the ball if we want to play at a super high intensity?

technically he’s good enough on the ball and he’s also a decent finisher

[rocco]

Think Olise will be one of the most sought after players this window - he must be on loads of teams target list

His hamstring injuries has to be a worry

Missed the first 3 months and only back a while a got another hamstring injury that had him out for another long period

[Barefoot Doctor]

Salah expected to stay next season, says Ornstein.

[robertobaggio37]

His hamstring injuries has to be a worry

Missed the first 3 months and only back a while a got another hamstring injury that had him out for another long period

We should stay away from signing players who faced lengthy spells on the sidelines in the past

[Draex]

We should stay away from signing players who faced lengthy spells on the sidelines in the past

This was under Hodgson who famously told Sturridge to man up and play through injury, not exactly the forefront of medical science was Roy.

[No666]

Salah expected to stay next season, says Ornstein.

Sounds like us protecting his price.

[Bobsackamano]

Would much rather we go for Olise than Kudus, he is a better player now with a higher ceiling and won't come with the AFCON bullshit every other year.

[rafathegaffa83]

Sounds like us protecting his price.

Or he's letting it be known he'll leave on a free for a massive payday

[Garlic Red]

We should stay away from signing players who faced lengthy spells on the sidelines in the past

That significantly reduces the number of available players though.

Injuries are a part of the game, some of them can’t be helped and some of them aren’t the player of club’s fault. I keep reading people berating our medical team, like it’s their fault Harvey’s ankle snapped, Robbo’s shoulder popped out for Scotland, Salah went to AFCON or Gomez went on England duty…

Nearly every player around can face a spell on the sidelines and more often than not they’ll suffer another one close to it, but if we rule out players who’ve had any kind of long term injury we could end up missing out. I remember all those years ago being desperate for us to sign Gundogan when he was at Dortmund, my mate was adamant he was too much of a risk because of his injuries and we needed someone who’s never had an injury before. Eventually we ended up getting Keita who became the most injury prone player ever, City ended up getting years of 40-50 game seasons from Gundogan.

[Zlen]

Or he's letting it be known he'll leave on a free for a massive payday

Perfectly fine with this scenario as long as we buy his replacement this summer.

[Draex]

That significantly reduces the number of available players though.

Injuries are a part of the game, some of them can’t be helped and some of them aren’t the player of club’s fault. I keep reading people berating our medical team, like it’s their fault Harvey’s ankle snapped, Robbo’s shoulder popped out for Scotland, Salah went to AFCON or Gomez went on England duty…

Nearly every player around can face a spell on the sidelines and more often than not they’ll suffer another one close to it, but if we rule out players who’ve had any kind of long term injury we could end up missing out. I remember all those years ago being desperate for us to sign Gundogan when he was at Dortmund, my mate was adamant he was too much of a risk because of his injuries and we needed someone who’s never had an injury before. Eventually we ended up getting Keita who became the most injury prone player ever, City ended up getting years of 40-50 game seasons from Gundogan.

Cheaty are proper dodgy though, I'm 99% sure in 20 years it will come out how they were on some sort of steds and illigal recovery stuff.

[killer-heels]

Salah expected to stay next season, says Ornstein.

Good news.