Topic: Keep this Man and his Family Out of your country.

[Dread Breath]

Kerry Packer is his name, and he's an Aussie who's after your money.

Gambling is a huge social problem in Australia because our gambling laws have been 'liberalised'. Australia only has a fraction of the world's population, but has 25% of the world's poker machines. (you might know them also as 'fruit' machines) Poker machines and casinos suck up a massive amount of money, normally away from those who can least afford it. One study on a regional region in the state of Victoria showed that it cost the Gippsland community over a billion dollars a year. That's money that goes from the man and woman in the street to people who are obscenely rich to start with.

Now one of Australia's richest men, who owns a string of casinos around the world, as well as a slew of other gambling interests, wants to get access to your British pounds. Keep him out.

Packer pushed for UK reform
By Colin Kruger
October 17, 2005

Documents obtained by a London newspaper reveal that Australia's richest man, Kerry Packer, was no idle spectator when it came to convincing the British Government of the need to liberalise its gambling laws.

According to documents obtained by The Sunday Times, Mr Packer's venture hired Michael Stephenson, a former adviser to the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, to lobby for the changes.

The paper said that these efforts included a visit to Mr Packer's Crown Casino in Melbourne by a UK minister and MPs charged with scrutinising the new laws, and culminated in a series of meetings with Treasury and culture department officials last year.

Mr Packer's private investment vehicle, Consolidated Press Holdings, and its joint venture partner in the UK, Damian Aspinall, are well positioned to capitalise on the changes to gambling laws which were passed earlier this year.

The partners are lobbying the British Government to give approval to a £150 million to £200 million casino being proposed as part of a £700 million ($1.63 billion) development in Cardiff, Wales.

The partners have also announced plans for a £50 million casino in England's Midlands and have proposals approved for Newcastle and Swansea.

In an official release last year the partners stated that they intended to have a portfolio of 12 to 16 casinos in Britain.

"With potential for the modernisation of gaming laws that's been talked about for the last four years finally coming close, we're starting to really ramp up our efforts," said Andrew MacDonald from CPH last year.

"We'd just like to be a player in this market and if it so happens that we end up being one of the biggest and the best, then all the better."

The investment is being made through the Aspinall Packer Group, in which the Packer family is understood to hold a 35 per cent stake.

It is understood Mr Packer's lobbying efforts began in 2002 when the British Minister for Culture, Richard Caborn, visited Australia to study deregulation. This included a visit to Crown Casino, which is operated by Mr Packer's Publishing & Broadcasting Ltd.

The more recent efforts were aided by Michael Stephenson, Mr Blair's former political secretary, who is the London representative for lobbyist firm Hawker Britton.

According to The Sunday Times, which obtained the documents under the Freedom of Information Act, CPH's meetings with Treasury officials detailed both the benefits and downside of liberalised gambling laws.

CPH officials discussed the damaging social consequences of gambling but also pointed out that gambling now contributed such a significant percentage of state revenues that governments could not easily curtail its availability.

According to the London newspaper, CPH officials said the liberalisation of Australian gambling laws in the 1990s was primarily driven by the need to raise tax revenues during a time of recession.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/packer-pushed-for-uk-reform/2005/10/16/1129401145307.html

[Dread Breath]

Apart from that he's got a head like a busted arsehole. Invoke the National Ugly Law, and have him deported.

[Bandy]

You choose to gamble or choose not to gamble.

If people want to bring in more Casinos - good on them - it can only be good for the punter as the competition would lead to them offering good deals, better offers, cheaper food and maybe lay on entertainment and stuff.

Sounds good.

[Dread Breath]

You choose to gamble or choose not to gamble.

If people want to bring in more Casinos - good on them - it can only be good for the punter as the competition would lead to them offering good deals, better offers, cheaper food and maybe lay on entertainment and stuff.

Sounds good.

Yo ho ho ho. Doesn't work that way, pal. Gambling makes most of its money off of addicts. Do you allow heroin usage because people can 'choose to do it or not to do it'?

As for entertainment: everyone knows that casinos offer shit entertainment. Look what happened to Elvis when he went to Vegas. If watching washed up 70's and 80's acts just before you blow your pay packet at the black jack table is the British idea of fun, maybe you people really do need the Casino "Stupid Tax" invoked. In that case, just make sure Packer can't get back over here: we've got rid of Murdcock thanks to your help. Packer would make it a quinella. And happy days for us.

[Bandy]

I disagree - you may well get a few 'addicts' - but as I frequent casinos fairly often - most of the clientelle go there and enjoy themselves without getting mental

I exclude the Chinese gamblers in this, of course, as they all seem to be addicted to gambling pretty much at birth.

But Casinos aren't a problem in my opinon - if they weren't around there is plenty of stuff to get addicted to - online gambling, football betting, card games, horses etc. etc. etc. etc.

If anything - Casino are good because they can keep an eye on you.

How many people do you know PERSONALLY that 'Blow their pay packets at the blackjack table"

I personally don't know any - and have never known any - but I know plenty of people that have a flutter in the casinos from time to time.

[Dread Breath]

I disagree - you may well get a few 'addicts' - but as I frequent casinos fairly often - most of the clientelle go there and enjoy themselves without getting mental

I exclude the Chinese gamblers in this, of course, as they all seem to be addicted to gambling pretty much at birth.

But Casinos aren't a problem in my opinon - if they weren't around there is plenty of stuff to get addicted to - online gambling, football betting, card games, horses etc. etc. etc. etc.

If anything - Casino are good because they can keep an eye on you.

How many people do you know PERSONALLY that 'Blow their pay packets at the blackjack table"

I personally don't know any - and have never known any - but I know plenty of people that have a flutter in the casinos from time to time.

Fair point: the thing is is that 'liberalisation' of gambling laws leads to the situation described above in Gippsland, Victoria. In almost every pub on the Eastern seaboard of Australia there are 'pokies': this has all come about because of the liberalisation of gambling laws. You can be sure that Packer will want to have his hand in the till at your local somewhere along the line: people can and do become addicted to gambling. Allowing gambling at virtually every entertainment venue will virtually ensure that every potential addict will become one. Your government wont give a toss: they'll be raking it in from extra tax revenue, plus keeping the 'big end' of town very happy indeed.

[Bandy]

I'm sure that steps can be taken to moderate people's behaviour, but is it worse to have someone chronically addicted to gambling at home, or at the bookies or elsewhere?

I think if people are going to be addicted to gambling, they are going to be addicted to gambling.

I also think that the vast majority of people aren't addicted and aren't likely to be.

Also, the more you can bring gambling out of the shadows - the easier it may become to get people professional help where they need it and also educate people.

If they can make a bit of money - and can also provide entertainment that doesn't sound too bad to me.

[Dread Breath]

Make sure you have that chain ready for Kerry.

[Bandy]

Was that number 6 down from the Times Crypic Crossword?!

[Branno]

Fucking cant stand Pokie venues overehere. 100 machines and small bar and they call that a pub 

Its a serious problem as most are open 24hrs and are located in throughout the suburbs. So its not like heading tothe city centre for a punt.....you can walk down the road. Gambling is out of control Aus. Yes for most of us we can walk away but many many others fall for the trap!

The machines are very different to the 'fruit machines' you see in pubs in the UK....these things can pay out $10,000's !

 

[Dread Breath]

Fucking cant stand Pokie venues overehere. 100 machines and small bar and they call that a pub 

Its a serious problem as most are open 24hrs and are located in throughout the suburbs. So its not like heading tothe city centre for a punt.....you can walk down the road. Gambling is out of control Aus. Yes for most of us we can walk away but many many others fall for the trap!

The machines are very different to the 'fruit machines' you see in pubs in the UK....these things can pay out $10,000's !

 

Yes, Branno is right: the machines here are state of the art pilfering tools that teach you how to lose and to be happy about it. They are very addictive, especially for those down on their luck, who think they can pay that next bill by 'winning' on the poker machines. Seems that almost every street corner or block has a gambling palace of some sort.

As I said the governments over here are quite happy about the situation. It seems the British government is casting an envious eye at the tax revenues generated over here, most of which comes from problem gamblers.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Fruit machines over here have to have a minimum payout percentage (I think its about 70%) - whether they stick to that is another matter, so they can't really screw people over big time.

And like another poster said, you choose to gamble - it is not enforced on you.

[Dread Breath]

Here is the study I was talking about previously:

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:6UW4uwrSNzkJ:www.sprc.unsw.edu.au/nspc2001/NSPC%25202001Papers/Doughney.pdf+%22poker+machines%22+gippsland+victoria+study&hl=en

The study shows that the implementation of poker machines in Victoria has been one of deliberately locating them in poorer areas. It also shows that this form of gambling (that looks like it will be coming to a pub near you soon in Britain), is not a 'fair' form of gambling:

"This article has given data to support its original hypothesis that poker machines are located
in areas of lower socio-economic status than had been previously demonstrated. When venues
are located disproportionately in less well off areas the corollary is that less well off people
are frequenting them disproportionately and losing disproportionately. If these were
alternative recreational venues, cinemas say, then we might not think it important. Indeed we
might even be pleased. However, when the subject is poker machine gambling we must raise
an ethical question. Is it right for our society to license, literally, a form of institutional
banditry against those less well off? Why is it banditry? The answer is that there is no equality
of risk. This is not a game of ‘toss the coin’. Tattersall’s and Tabcorp’s are guaranteed
duopoly profits. The government is guaranteed a tax take equal to the operators’ profits (or
rents). These rents and taxes are regressive: more regressive than we had earlier been able to
establish. Income is effectively, very effectively, being redistributed away from low income
areas, and its flow back effects are at best marginal. (It is probably even wrong in the
aggregate to speak of poker machine ‘gambling’: there is no gamble when the ‘house’ bears
no risk and sets its winnings by computer program)"

[Lush is the best medicine...]

In the UK there is a higher concentration ratio of betting shops and pubs in so called 'poorer areas' than in richer ones.

[Bandy]

Would be funny seeing someone trying to get out of the pub alive (Or without at least buying everyone in there a pint! or ten) after winning £10,000 on a machine

I would also guess that most pubs wouldn't actually have £10,000 on their premises

[Lush is the best medicine...]

loads of quiz machines have those footy quizzes where you could win 5 grand if your score is the highest nationwide

[Bandy]

Don't you have to write off/go somewhere to collect the money?

[capt k]

Would be funny seeing someone trying to get out of the pub alive (Or without at least buying everyone in there a pint! or ten) after winning £10,000 on a machine

I would also guess that most pubs wouldn't actually have £10,000 on their premises

the law over here now is ANY pay over $1000.00 MUST be in cheque form, ie you win $1500.00 you can get upto $1000 in cash the balance in cheque..


the difference BANDY BETWEEN HORSE,S CARDS, ROULETTE AND THE POKIES is the machines ARE DESIGNED to attract and keep you playing, wiht the lights, music and even talk of the puttng a pheremone type of aroma dispenser in them..

 take it from someone who has suffered badly due to playing these things,,,,, THEY ARE ADDICTIVE