Topic: U.S. launches Operation Iron Fist in Iraq

[Roger]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military launched Operation Iron Fist in Anbar province early Saturday in an effort to dislodge a stubborn insurgency in western Iraq, a military statement said.

The Marine-led operation is taking place in the town of Sa'da, about 12 miles from the Syrian border, and involves about 1,000 Marines, soldiers and sailors from the Regimental Combat Team-2.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/01/iraq.main/index.html

[SMD]

Well, at least there's no spin with that name.

[Murf]

World War 3 shortly, well might as well get pissed again   Sean pass us a few cans please

[Dread Breath]

Christ all mighty, might as well have called it Operation Latex Knuckle.

[SMD]

What gets on my nerves are those people who still think that it's about regime change/weapons of mass destruction/bringing stability to the Middle East and rest of the world.

They're bombing it back to the stone age and I still hear "Bush wants democracy".

[Dread Breath]

What gets on my nerves are those people who still think that it's about regime change/weapons of mass destruction/bringing stability to the Middle East and rest of the world.

They're bombing it back to the stone age and I still hear "Bush wants democracy".

He does want democracy: one Republican four votes.

[Sasquatch]

Go on Yanks. Get stuck in there. Bust those fecking insurgent's arses.

[kesey]

Dont be fooled fuckwits!   

Ever noticed your civil liberties being slighty eroded recently?


War on terror = War on personal freedom!   


Knobheads!

[kesey]

Go on Yanks. Get stuck in there. Bust those fecking insurgent's arses.

 

[SMD]

 

I think he's being a teensy bit sarcastic.

[jambutty]

What I find really wacky is that the Sunnis,  who are being real pricks at the mo, are the moderate muslims, making my immediate sympathies lie with the shiites, who hate us (westerners) the most.

If you look at the mess that Yugoslavia became after Tito died, you can see that it takes a total bastard like Saddam to keep all those ethnic nutjobs in check.

[kesey]

  :wavesympathies lie with the shiites, who hate us (westerners) the most.

If you look at the mess that Yugoslavia became after Tito died, you can see that it takes a total bastard like Saddam to keep all those ethnic nutjobs in check.

SPLITTERS..........!!!         

[SMD]

What I find really wacky is that the Sunnis,  who are being real pricks at the mo, are the moderate muslims, making my immediate sympathies lie with the shiites, who hate us (westerners) the most.

If you look at the mess that Yugoslavia became after Tito died, you can see that it takes a total bastard like Saddam to keep all those ethnic nutjobs in check.

The irony being that all the Iraqi Arabs (i.e. those without allegiance to Iran) wanted Saddam back to hold the country together.

And how are the Sunnis being the pricks?

[Dread Breath]

Iraq wasn't Iraq until the 20th century: those "Ethnic Nutjobs" in Iraq were previously totally different communities with different cultures/languages etc. Yes Iraq is an ethnic mess in a lot of ways, but so would your country be if the population of England was placed in the nation of France and expected to get along.

[Bluto-clause]

Who would win in a wresteling match between Allah and Lemmy

[SMD]

Iraq wasn't Iraq until the 20th century: those "Ethnic Nutjobs" in Iraq were previously totally different communities with different cultures/languages etc. Yes Iraq is an ethnic mess in a lot of ways, but so would your country be if the population of England was placed in the nation of France and expected to get along.

Technically speaking yes but Iraq has always existed there or thereabouts in terms of it being an area or a province.

[Gnurglan]

Ever noticed your civil liberties being slighty eroded recently?

You mean things like the EU trying to pass a law that will make companies store all your phone calls, e-mails etc because it may help to track terrorists (or perhaps those with the wrong political views) some time in the future.

Orwell didn't know how spot on he was with "1984".

[SMD]

1984 is a bit scary in that it wasn't really a prediction, more of a damning indictment of the bastardisation of political ideas.

No one learns.

[Sasquatch]

I think he's being a teensy bit sarcastic.

No I'm not. I'm being sarcastic to some of you. Personally I think we should fecking wipe the lot of them out. The rag heads insurgents I mean, not the Yanks. LOL.

Go on Marines. Fecking do the poxy camel jockeys.

[SMD]

No I'm not. I'm being sarcastic you some of you. Personally I think we should fecking wipe the lot of them out. The rag heads insurgents I mean, not the Yanks. LOL.

Go on Marines. Fecking do the poxy camel jockeys.

Oh, my mistake.

[Sasquatch]

No probs.

[jambutty]

I think we should fecking wipe the lot of them out. The rag heads insurgents I mean, not the Yanks.

Should we do a US Marine thing like kill them all & let God sort 'em out?

[a partridge in seat_5c]

oooooo how tough arming yourself to the teeth and then embarking on operation Iron Fist
 

I bet that took some thinking up

I wonder if there's ever been an operation Big Girly Poof?

[Bronx Red]

oooooo how tough arming yourself to the teeth and then embarking on operation Iron Fist
 

I bet that took some thinking up

I wonder if there's ever been an operation Big Girly Poof?

That was bloody sunday

[Art Vandelay]

They even designed a nice new poster to go with there new campaign.

[BIGdavalad]

The assault won't work, the Coalition don't have enough troops to block every escape route for the insurgents, without leaving other areas unmanned.

[Millsee]

The assault won't work, the Coalition don't have enough troops to block every escape route for the insurgents, without leaving other areas unmanned.

BDL. Genuine question.

How do you distinguish an "insurgent" from a "pissed off local"?

I admit that I had never heard the former term until the recent invasion.

[BIGdavalad]

BDL. Genuine question.

How do you distinguish an "insurgent" from a "pissed off local"?

I admit that I had never heard the former term until the recent invasion.

Since a lot of insurgents probably are pissed off locals, I don't think the two terms are mutually exclusive. Since it's legal to own an Ak in Iraq (although not to have it outside your house or place of work), you can't say that having an assault rifle = terrorist/insurgent as you can in most places. The way I see it, if they point a gun at me, I shoot them. If they don't, I won't.

Insurgent is just a posh name for terrorist IMO, been used in military circles for a long time (Counter Insurgency Operations have been known as that for decades), although "one man's terrorist..." and all that.

[Millsee]

Since a lot of insurgents probably are pissed off locals, I don't think the two terms are mutually exclusive. Since it's legal to own an Ak in Iraq (although not to have it outside your house or place of work), you can't say that having an assault rifle = terrorist/insurgent as you can in most places. The way I see it, if they point a gun at me, I shoot them. If they don't, I won't.

Insurgent is just a posh name for terrorist IMO, been used in military circles for a long time (Counter Insurgency Operations have been known as that for decades), although "one man's terrorist..." and all that.

Thing is though, are "insurgents" just dressed up locals? Anyone who shows the slightest dissent to the occupation (the term is moot, and for another time) is termed an insurgent.

I accept your simplistic approach - shoot and get shot at - but I worry that all forces are not as noble.

I also am now convinced that there was no masterplan for this ongoing saga from the military leaders.

[a partridge in seat_5c]

BDL. Genuine question.

How do you distinguish an "insurgent" from a "pissed off local"?

I admit that I had never heard the former term until the recent invasion.

the same way you distinguish 2 men in civvies in a foreign country who kill people as "terrorists" as opposed to being "special forces"

by the colour of their skin

[BIGdavalad]

the same way you distinguish 2 men in civvies in a foreign country who kill people as "terrorists" as opposed to being "special forces"

by the colour of their skin

What about the Gurkhas, whos main VDM is being, how to put this?, not white? Or the Ghanain, Bermudan, Jamaican, Fijian, Sierra Leonean lads I worked with, who were, again, not white? Maybe if you know nothing about a subject, it's best not to post about it?

What were the alleged members of the Special Forces captured in Basra and handed over to the Militia doing that makes them terrorists?

[BIGdavalad]

Thing is though, are "insurgents" just dressed up locals? Anyone who shows the slightest dissent to the occupation (the term is moot, and for another time) is termed an insurgent.

I accept your simplistic approach - shoot and get shot at - but I worry that all forces are not as noble.

I also am now convinced that there was no masterplan for this ongoing saga from the military leaders.

Technically, anyone who is not a member of the Armed Forces of a country who fights is an illegal combatant and legally a terrorist (whether this would include the Home Guard or a similar organisation, I'm not certain). Some of the insurgents in Iraq are just pissed off locals, some are pros from all over the Middle East, some are from further afield (the two Royal Signals lads who got killed by a suicide bomber during the Black Watch operations at Camp Dogwood last year were killed by a white guy, not an 'Arab'), so the insurgents are from all over, motivated by all kinds of things from defending their homes from foreign aggression to being pro terrorists who want to fight their Jihad anywhere they can.

There have been a couple of fairly senior former British officers (Colonel Tim Collins being the most high profile) who have been in the media recently with similar comments about plans for a post invasion Iraq. It's a fuck-up, plain and simple, caused by the disbanding of the police and army without any thought about who was going to police the country.

[Acaustiq]

Technically, anyone who is not a member of the Armed Forces of a country who fights is an illegal combatant and legally a terrorist (whether this would include the Home Guard or a similar organisation, I'm not certain).

Whilst we're on about technicalities, perhaps you can help me with this; Obviously you're aware of the difference between a war (a very rare thing these days) and a police action, as Iraq was neither of these, what were you actually told it was ?

[BIGdavalad]

Whilst we're on about technicalities, perhaps you can help me with this; Obviously you're aware of the difference between a war (a very rare thing these days) and a police action, as Iraq was neither of these, what were you actually told it was ?

I was told what day I had to be at Brize Norton dressed in some natty sandy coloured clothes for an Operational Deployment.

Do you think soldiers have any choice about where the dickheads in charge of the country send us or what we do when we get there?

war

n 1: the waging of armed conflict against an enemy; "thousands of people were killed in the war" [syn: warfare] 2: a legal state created by a declaration of war and ended by official declaration during which the international rules of war apply; "war was declared in November but actual fighting did not begin until the following spring" [syn: state of war] [ant: peace] 3: an active struggle between competing entities; "a price war"; "a war of wits"; "diplomatic warfare" [syn: warfare] 4: a concerted campaign to end something that is injurious; "the war on poverty"; "the war against crime" v : make or wage war [ant: make peace]

Sounds like Iraq to me.

[Acaustiq]

Do you think soldiers have any choice about where the dickheads in charge of the country send us or what we do when we get there?

Never said you did.

Sounds like Iraq to me.

Plucking things out of a dictionary is one thing but we both know in order to actually be at war, the ruler of one side has to sign a formal declaration thereof.

2: a legal state created by a declaration of war and ended by official declaration during which the international rules of war apply; "war was declared in November but actual fighting did not begin until the following spring"

'operational deployment' is an interesting phrase though, was this at the 'start' or some way in ?

[saltynuts]

Going operational is going operational, wether it's at the start of a conflict or a few months before it ends, nothing interesting about it, it's effectively the Army's way of saying your training and all those wet and windy days spent on the rifle range may come into practice.

I was told we'd be going into southern Iraq on operations, Bush and Blairs motives? you already know. Makes no difference to us, we have a job to do, we get breifed on it and do our best to do the job required.

[saltynuts]

No I'm not. I'm being sarcastic to some of you. Personally I think we should fecking wipe the lot of them out. The rag heads insurgents I mean, not the Yanks. LOL.

Go on Marines. Fecking do the poxy camel jockeys.

Bit extreme that if you ask me.....

[saltynuts]

How do you distinguish an "insurgent" from a "pissed off local"?

One will want to kill you and another one will hit you with their shoe or throw stones and give you abuse......I don't beleive for one second all locals want to kill us, they might not want us there, but, from my experience anyway, most don't want to kill us. Thats what separates the two in my opinion, with Insurgents going to extremes like suicide bombs, the production of IED's and just general hostile attacks with small arms.....and they generally come from all over, Just general terrorism and being a resistance force or group, whilst a pissed off local with give you a peice of his mind like.....or it could end up as an extreme situation and a riot may occur, i.e. the police staion incident where the Warrior was petrol bombed. I wouldn't call that "insurgancy" though, just a public order situation.

[Terry de Niro]

George W Bush has put us in a Vietnam/Northen Ireland situation beyond our wildest dreams.
I fully supported the 1st Gulf war, but the 2nd war to me reeks of unfinished business. I can just imagine Bush Senior and Junior sitting around a thanks giving feast with their families, and George senior saying " hey son finish the job I should have done, and while your at it put the rest of the Goddamn world to right.."

I have a massive respect to all our British armed forces and what they do, but I have a bigger distrust of America's motives in this joke of a "so called war", in using our forces as cannon fodder/ pawns in their so called "quest for freedom, war against terror", and what worries me more so is they, Bush and his puppets ain't finished yet...

[WOOLTONIAN]

Well, at least there's no spin with that name.

Wasn't the "Fist of God" book, based on an Iraqi weapon of mass destruction ?
Christ, dont tell me they invaded after reading the book.