Topic: PL: Liverpool v Man United

[MonsLibpool]

With how uninterested Manu were in the ball we probably would have been better served with Gomez at right back and Trent as the 6.

Trent is not quick enough to overlap. He gets it with space then slows it down.

Gomez would do that better.

[Nick110581]

I don’t know what it is really, but it just looks like we are overcomplicating things. Trent can shine anywhere on the pitch - he is that good on the ball, but the play around him is contracting in weird ways, we seem to be choking ourselves out of space repeatedly.

I just think we need to adapt when teams have no interest in playing.

Gomez should have started yesterday with Trent in the middle.

[MonsLibpool]

We miss Matip.

His ball carrying skills and passing are very useful against teams like that. I found Konate ropey in his passing.

[The G in Gerrard]

However, we need to adapt when these sides play like United did. Gomez was good when he came on.

Gomez should start on Saturday at right back. Trent in midfield.

[The G in Gerrard]

Oh yes, good baby Jesus yes.
The amount of times last night we passed the ball around the back aimlessly, only for it to end up with Konate who would proceed to sadly look ahead, hoping something would open up, afraid to push ahead. We really do miss Joel.

Agreed Konate was fine defensively. Offensively what Joel provided is sorely missing. Not sure who out of Konate or Virgil is best to replace that ability of bringing the ball into midfield and beyond when required.

[The G in Gerrard]

His ball carrying skills and passing are very useful against teams like that. I found Konate ropey in his passing.

He had one run i think near the end of the second half which is exactly what we needed iirc. Joel's presence and performances have been understated - not sure how we resolve that against sides that will do that at Anfield.

[edeyj]

Front 3 are firing blanks. Needs addressing.

[wah00ey]

34 shots, 12 corners, 69% possession and no goals. Seemed like all of our players were missing their final ball today. We struggled with Kostas going up the left against Dalot. Definitely needed to get the ball to Mo more in the final third, we probably could have tried to go up the right side more in the second half. Also when Gomez came on and Trent moved into the midfield his crosses from the right channel were actually missed. It's worth it for him to get chances in the centre at the top of their box, was a foot away from netting a tidy finish when he ran for the 6y box on one of our possession.

We just needed one of the FWs to have their shooting boots on. I thought the game was calling for Jota, bad timing for his injury. I can't really fault the game management either from Klopp, Elliott could have been introduced earlier but that's it really.

Also, has to be said, the double yellow for Dalot at the end of the game was shocking from Michael Oliver. One of the most obviously and badly wrong decisions we've seen this season.

Compared to 8 shots, 4 corners and 58% possession in the 7-0.

[Qston]

Is McAllister that player that you don`t really notice that much when he plays, but when he doesn`t you really notice it ?  Feels like yesterdays game was that game.

[BobPaisley3]

Is McAllister that player that you don`t really notice that much when he plays, but when he doesn`t you really notice it ?  Feels like yesterdays game was that game.

Absolutely. We were grim in midfield against Palace too. He’s a proven premier league midfielder, huge loss. Hopefully gets a few minutes on Wednesday and is back for Saturday.

[[new username under construction]]

Is McAllister that player that you don`t really notice that much when he plays, but when he doesn`t you really notice it ?  Feels like yesterdays game was that game.

Yup, really helps with the pace of the game and forward balls..........Robertson, too nearly everything gets killed down that left side recently

[spider-neil]

Is McAllister that player that you don`t really notice that much when he plays, but when he doesn`t you really notice it ?  Feels like yesterdays game was that game.

We definitely missed him. I'm really hopeful he make the game at the weekend.

[Elzar]

We often fall into the trap of playing at the pace the opposition want us to. We came out first 5 minutes absolutely going for it, but as soon as they slowed it down, so did we and the crowd fell flat soon after. Our passes were then over complicated, and trying to force our way through a low block. Their 2 defensive midfielders got booked early yet we didn't turn and run at them once.

The subs were a bit odd, maybe Gravenberch coming off threw the plan off, but Elliot has come on and made a big impact lately, yet both him and Jones seemed to come on into unfamiliar roles and couldn't get into the game for the 10 minutes they got. I thought we should have just gone Gakpo/Elliot for that first double sub, then Gomez for Endo a bit later to get Trent centrally.

The front 3 is troubling at the moment, but we have also got ourselves 1 point off top so I wouldn't say they are a massive issues as long as they are causing the problems for the goals to come from somewhere. Diaz seems to do everything he used to, until he gets near the box and maybe it's an effect of the injury, or just confidence that means he isn't getting it right. I'd like to see Gakpo start against Arsenal.

A frustrating match, which puts more pressure on the Arsenal match. Funny to see they are now pointing at past success to try bite back... how ironic.

[Nick110581]

Some weird narrative from their lot that they were disappointed that they didn't win.

[spider-neil]

Some weird narrative from their lot that they were disappointed that they didn't win.

They had the best chance of the game. Allison saved us big time.

[Nick110581]

They had the best chance of the game. Allison saved us big time.

They had two chances but let's not rewrite history. They were horrific.

[RedG13]

They had the best chance of the game. Allison saved us big time.

Incorrect. Gravenberch had the best chance of the game per Xg. He had .41 chance in the 16th minute. A volley in the 6 yard box. It after Nunez passes the header into the 6 yard box from a Trent Cross.
Hojlund chance was the 2nd best at .2
Gakpo had the 3rd best in 90+2 at .17
Mo in the 16th minute had a .16 xg chance after the Gravenberch shot.

[SuperStevieNicol]

One of those days where more players are off form than on form. Front 3 not firing and squad stretched. It happens. We didn’t lose and we are in a great place overall on all fronts. Beat West Ham and beat Arsenal and it will be a great Christmas.

[spider-neil]

Incorrect. Gravenberch had the best chance of the game per Xg. He had .41 chance in the 16th minute. A volley in the 6 yard box. It after Nunez passes the header into the 6 yard box from a Trent Cross.
Hojlund chance was the 2nd best at .2
Gakpo had the 3rd best in 90+2 at .17
Mo in the 16th minute had a .16 xg chance after the Gravenberch shot.

Gravenberch's shot was the best chance of the game? It was a shot from distance.

[Fruity]

Jota has 4 goals in 8 starts in the league so his numbers are ok, but Diaz has 3 in 12, Nunez 4 in 10 and Gakpo 2 in 7. We really need the attackers to step up here.

We are one game away from the half way point so based on that none of our strikers (apart from Mo) will get into double figures if they carry on at that rate.

[spider-neil]

We are one game away from the half way point so based on that none of our strikers (apart from Mo) will get into double figures if they carry on at that rate.

This wouldn't be a problem if others were chipping in with goals but that's dried up as well.

[Motty]

Just one of those days yesterday, shit happens.

But when we are like that fuck me are we bad for just lumping aimless balls into the box and taking long shots constantly, Salah loses the ability to make the simplest pass and Trent suddenly can't cross for his life. Fully expect them to be back on it Wednesday though but got to say Szoboszlai has been awful on the ball for weeks now, still works hard for the team but would really like him to start adding assists or just general creating stuff to his game again. And Diaz needs to start taking people on on the outside now and again instead of trying to cut in onto his right every time.

[Kennys from heaven]

Front 3 are firing blanks. Needs addressing.

Jota is more important to us than most realise in that respect. That said, every team goes through lean spells. That was shit-up-a-stick yesterday so no wonder everyone struggled. One goal would have clinched that either way, but it didn't happen.

As we all know and Jurgen has quite often said, this is a time of the year that you cannot go expecting fluent, energetic and open games of football. Not losing and keeping players fit is the name of the game, so I'm not really that fussed about the performance - it was inevitable.

Anyway, here we are though, one game (that was never a loss) lost and sitting within a win of the summit. Take that every day of the year. Just relieved that that farce is over anyway and move on.

[Coolie High]

Gravenberch's shot was the best chance of the game? It was a shot from distance.

Thats why stats aren't infallible, anyone who thinks Gravenberch chance is a better one than the one Hojlund had is bonkers.

Unless i'm thinking of another chance?

[thaddeus]

That reminded me of a couple of games we had against Leicester where they would crowd their own penalty area and hope for the occasional clearance to fall their way for somebody to leg it up the pitch.  We struggled then and we struggled yesterday.  I don't think that's particularly on us as the "park the bus" tactic is a tried-and-tested way of frustrating sides.

We looked a lot better after the substitutions but couldn't quite force the ball in.  Two points dropped but hopefully a game we can learn plenty from.

[Raid]

I’ve not been overly convinced so far this season and I think City’s stuttering form had put us into a position we aren’t quite at yet. Too many players weren’t at it yesterday against a side that had no interest in winning the football match.

That said, we still should have won. Arsenal will come to win next week and that should suit us. We’re in a fabulous position considering we haven’t really gone past third gear so far this season.

[groove]

Often you can't really do anything when you don't get the roll of the dice. Comparing this to the 7-0 highlights just how much the run of the ball can affect the mentality of the players and people's perception of how good or bad the performance was. Go back and watch the goals in the 7-0 with a real critical eye. Take, for example, Nunez's header. How many times in the build-up does the ball deflect in our favour? I count at least 5 deflections in a row that fall for us. Three times one of our lads gets a toe on it and it loops up off a United leg back into the path of our player. Just one of those 50/50s going their way kills that passage of play. We're now 2-0 up. The mentality of the players from that point on is completely different, even though the run of the game and the dominance shown by us is pretty much the same as yesterday up to that point in the game. United have to come out and play if they want a point, leaving gaps for us to counterattack.

[jillcwhomever]

I’ve not been overly convinced so far this season and I think City’s stuttering form had put us into a position we aren’t quite at yet. Too many players weren’t at it yesterday against a side that had no interest in winning the football match.

That said, we still should have won. Arsenal will come to win next week and that should suit us. We’re in a fabulous position considering we haven’t really gone past third gear so far this season.

They are more likely to sit deep and counter attack. against us. We need Macca back. He can at least break the lines with his passing.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Pretty shocking how narrow we were and how little ball progression there was from the centre or left;

[MD1990]

Pretty shocking how narrow we were and how little ball progression there was from the centre or left;

hink we need a right winger.
Would help us get Salah closer to goal

[Chris~]

442, big man little man combo of Salah and Nunez, Szoboszlai on the right and Jones/Mac in the middle

[Funky_Gibbons]

hink we need a right winger.
Would help us get Salah closer to goal

If we can't progress the ball it would make no difference. Look at how many negative passes Endo, Tsmikas, Diaz and Gravenberch are making.

We need to open up the pitch more for a start, that is incredibily narrow and very easy to defend against. 

[BigCDump]

Something for Klopp to safeguard against. Sets the scene for how other teams can come to frustrate us. Heck if even ETH can achieve it with his bunch of clowns then any team can.

[killer-heels]

Pretty shocking how narrow we were and how little ball progression there was from the centre or left;

Its quite clearly far too narrow. Its one of the issues I have against playing Elliott there as well in midfield because he is even less inclined to go wide. Basically at some point someone has to give width seeing as our actual fullback has decided thats no longer his bag.

It also doesnt help Konate as he ends up being ponderous on the ball with no option on the outside.

[Solomon Grundy]

I think I'm more annoyed with how we played today than I was yesterday.

[thaddeus]

Pretty shocking how narrow we were and how little ball progression there was from the centre or left;

From watching the game I didn't think we felt too narrow.  Kostas and Diaz on the left and Trent and Mo on the right were up against the touchline frequently.  We also had lots of big switches of play from one touchline to the other (particularly from right to left).  It felt like we put lots, probably too many, crosses in but Varane was like a magnet to them.

Those average position charts are always distorted by players that are given freedom to roam.  Trent and Mo, for example, did provide plenty of width for us but also came inside frequently to help us match up against an overloaded Man U midfield or to get to where the goal is!

The problem was bad decision making like Darwin slowing the game down when we had an overload on the left, loose passes like Mo overhitting the simplest of passes when Dom ran in behind Shaw, dribbling when we should have passed like Diaz getting dispossessed by Dalot when Kostas had overlapped him, shooting from distance as soon as the Man U defence opened up even slightly and - more than anything - poor finishing.  If any of those are executed better then we score, we win and there's no conversation about the shape of our team.

[Draex]

Pretty shocking how narrow we were and how little ball progression there was from the centre or left;

Was going to say we played something like this..



and people bemoan Endo on the ball, he was being asked to thread the eye of a needle with a blindfold on.

[killer-heels]

and people bemoan Endo on the ball, he was being asked to thread the eye of a needle with a blindfold on.

Thats his role.

[Samie]

Thats his role.

And you expect people to take you seriosly with a comment like that? 

[Macc77]

Results dictate post-match opinions of course. Two weeks ago we had similar issues against Fulham, couldn't break them down effectively, but we scored 3 wonder goals and got a late winner. Had a similar pot shot hit the net yesterday we likely win the game comfortably and all the analysis about shape and formation goes in the bin for another week.

Maybe we'll look back on yesterday as a good wake up call that we've been getting away with a bit for a while, and in isolation a home draw that hopefully gets us re-focused ahead of a massive game with a title rival could be something that we needed. Maybe we're ahead of schedule, maybe we're a title winning team, time will tell, but we're here and have a chance, and we need to use yesterday as a signal that we need to change a few things. Better we get the kick up the arse in December than wing a few more games and get it in Jan or Feb IMO.