Author Topic: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October  (Read 9794 times)

Offline jackh

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Ajax vs Liverpool

20:00, Wednesday 26th August
Johan Cruyff Arena, Amsterdan
Champions League League
Referee: José María Sánchez (ESP)


We find ourselves very much at the business end of the Champions League Group Stage this week – five of thirty-two teams are already guaranteed a place in the Knockout Phase, and a handful more will likely join them by the time Wednesday is done. That very much applies to Group A, where a point for Liverpool – away in Amsterdam – will assure them of a place in the draw for February’s Round of 16 matches. Despite a six-point deficit to their visitors, however, Ajax themselves will see opportunity when reflecting on Liverpool’s form and each side’s remaining fixtures.


The clubs’ meeting at Anfield last month was only a fifth competitive match in their history, with Liverpool claiming a 2-1 victory. The sides were tied at 1-1 going into the final moments of the match, courtesy of Moham(m)ed’s Salah & Kudos – Joel Matip’s late winner ensures that the group feels very differently going into this week’s match than it might otherwise have done so. Previous meetings between the sides have also been in the same competition, with Ajax achieving a 7-3 aggregate victory over Liverpool in the European Cup Second Round in 1966-67 and the Reds claiming a pair of 1-0 victories over their opponents in the 2020-21 Champions League Group Stage.


After the relatively fallow 00s period, Ajax have looked in good health again over the last decade or so. Legendary centre-back, Frank de Boer won four successive titles (as he did as a play in the 90s) as Ajax manager between 2010-11 and 2013-14 – after a transitional period, Ajax then won three in succession (and were leading the Covid-abandoned 2019-20) under Erik ten Hag, prior to his departure to take over at Manchester United this summer. The peak of recent Ajax is surely the young team that won the league in 2018-19 but had their hearts broken by Lucas Moura in the Champions League Semi Final – that team, featuring Matthijs de Ligt, Frenkie de Jong, Donny van de Beek, and Hakim Ziyech, was one of those fantastic Ajax sides that comes along every generation or so to remind everyone of the magic that surrounds the club.


As was largely expected, Erik ten Hag’s 2018-19 Ajax side began to be dismantled by the pressures & temptations of the wider footballing market just as it hit its peak – de Ligt and de Jong departed in 2019 itself, whilst van de Beek and Ziyech followed a year later. Only really Daley Blind and Dusan Tadic – formerly of United and Southampton, respectively – remain, and a number of further departures (including ten Hag himself) brought the curtain down on that Ajax team during this summer.


The club remain in good health domestically, however – they’ve won the last three league titles and a couple of cups, and have a 4 point lead over regular rivals PSV & Feyenoord a third of the way through their first Eredivisie season with new coach Alfred Schreuder. They’ve scored 15 in their last three in the league, but face PSV in their next match – having lost only to 4th-place AZ so far during their league season, the PSV match will be a significant indicator as to where Ajax stand this season: a win and they strengthen a strong position at the top, but a defeat would suggest potential weaknesses in their armour and give rivals cause for optimism for when the league picks up again in the new year.


Schreuder’s Ajax began with a commanding 4-0 home victory over Rangers (returning after an eleven year absence) in their opening Champions League Group Stage match, but have since followed the loss to Liverpool with two comprehensive defeats to Napoli. As things stand, that Joel Matip goal could prove a pivotal one – Ajax will however feel that Liverpool’s Champions League wins and their recent victory over Manchester City represent the Reds flattering to deceive, and it’s not incomprehensible that the Ajax and Liverpool could both end the Group Stage on 9 points each. A big game awaits for both clubs.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2022, 02:50:02 pm »
What do we need then? A draw puts us through yeah?

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2022, 03:29:09 pm »
What do we need then? A draw puts us through yeah?

A win or a draw sees us through or any 1 goal defeat other than 1-0 or 2-1 will also see us through as well. 
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Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2022, 03:38:53 pm »
Hopefully Thiago is back for this.

I'd go:

Becker
Trent
Gomez
VVD
Robbo

Fabinho
Thiago
Henderson

Mo
Bobby
Carvalho/Elliot

Keep Darwin for Leeds if he isn't properly fit.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2022, 03:40:38 pm »
Hopefully Thiago is back for this.

I'd go:

Becker
Trent
Gomez
VVD
Robbo

Fabinho
Thiago
Henderson

Mo
Bobby
Carvalho/Elliot

Keep Darwin for Leeds if he isn't properly fit.

Konate has to come straight back in ahead of Gomez. No to Fab, Thiago and Henderson, one of them steps out most likely Fabinho. Nunez has to start in place of Bobby.

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2022, 04:37:37 pm »
Weirdly a draw might be better than a win here so we don't end up playing a full team v Napoli trying to overturn the head to head days before Tottenham away.

Luckily even if the worst happens here we'll get what we need on the last day v Napoli reserves. If Ajax go crazy press, energy this could get a bit ugly.

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2022, 05:22:45 pm »
Weirdly a draw might be better than a win here so we don't end up playing a full team v Napoli trying to overturn the head to head days before Tottenham away.

Luckily even if the worst happens here we'll get what we need on the last day v Napoli reserves. If Ajax go crazy press, energy this could get a bit ugly.

I think the same. Chances of us winning the group are really slim considering we'd have to win here which will be tough enough, and Napoli would have to lose at home to Rangers which surely won't happen. I'd be very happy with a draw here.

Ajax will have to do something different than they have their last few European games. They were rubbish at Anfield and got taken apart by Napoli twice. They just aren't as good as they were a few years ago and I'd assume that's down to persisting with an ageing Tadic and losing the likes of Antony among others. This is obviously a bigger game for them than Napoli was but you see them going there and scoring six and you'd want to go here and score at least a couple. Of course they're in far better form than we are like and they haven't just lost to Nottingham Forest, but still.
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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2022, 06:12:34 pm »
Thanks for the OP jack :)

Hopefully we get the result we need to qualify so don't need to worry going into next week. Plus it'll keep the post match thread FSG-free (touch wood).
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2022, 06:52:37 pm »
Simple win will do. No stress, no mess.
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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2022, 07:00:32 pm »
It always intrigues me why we played in an amber kit against Ajax in 1966. I don't think we've ever not wore our home kit at Anfield before or since that game!

As for Wedneday, 2-0 to us I reckon (Mo 2)
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Offline Dougle

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2022, 07:14:15 pm »
Cheers Jack. Good shout on Ajax and where they are at. I'm still numb after Forest. Hopefully the buzz will come back and opinions will follow.

Offline Legs

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2022, 07:15:50 pm »
Weirdly a draw might be better than a win here so we don't end up playing a full team v Napoli trying to overturn the head to head days before Tottenham away.

Luckily even if the worst happens here we'll get what we need on the last day v Napoli reserves. If Ajax go crazy press, energy this could get a bit ugly.

I had this same thought as well.

I had a Napoli team lined up then forgot we cant pick Keita or Ox.

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2022, 07:30:19 pm »
A win or a draw sees us through or any 1 goal defeat other than 1-0 or 2-1 will also see us through as well. 

Away goals don't count any more. They'd still need a massive goal difference swing on the final day if they beat us by a single goal, but we wouldn't be through just yet.

Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2022, 07:40:33 pm »
It always intrigues me why we played in an amber kit against Ajax in 1966. I don't think we've ever not wore our home kit at Anfield before or since that game!

As for Wedneday, 2-0 to us I reckon (Mo 2)

Wasn't there a mad UEFA. rule late 90's that home team wore away kit?

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2022, 09:20:04 pm »
Napoli won 6-1 here and while they’re currently better than us, it suggests Ajax can be got at, at home.
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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2022, 09:31:17 pm »
I’d start both Konate and Nunez if they’re fit enough. I’d worry if we started too slowly here, especially if we concede early, so need to go as strong as we can at the start with a view to (hopefully) taking key players off with half an hour left and a couple of goals up. Maybe I’m being too optimistic here after the Forest debacle, but Ajax can be fragile so need to exploit their vulnerabilities and dampen the enthusiasm of their crowd.

Offline rawcusk8

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2022, 10:20:22 pm »
Weirdly a draw might be better than a win here so we don't end up playing a full team v Napoli trying to overturn the head to head days before Tottenham away.

Luckily even if the worst happens here we'll get what we need on the last day v Napoli reserves. If Ajax go crazy press, energy this could get a bit ugly.
Napoli have fourth placed Atalanta away after our game, can’t see why they would risk their players and like us they have matches every 3 days till the World Cup break. Best thing for us is to just do the job, hope we get a much needed win at Ajax and build up the confidence.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2022, 10:41:22 pm »
Away goals don't count any more. They'd still need a massive goal difference swing on the final day if they beat us by a single goal, but we wouldn't be through just yet.

Yeh you are correct.

Just checked article 17 of UEFA's regulations. Crazily, they did still use away goals in the group stages but only if the goal difference is equal across games against all teams in the group.

Article 17 Equality of points – group stage
17.01

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied in the order given to determine their rankings:

    higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question;

    superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question;

    higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question;

    if, after having applied criteria a) to c), teams still have an equal ranking, criteria a) to c) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the remaining teams to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria e) to k) apply in the order given to the two or more teams still equal;

    superior goal difference in all group matches;

    higher number of goals scored in all group matches;

    higher number of away goals scored in all group matches;

    higher number of wins in all group matches;

    higher number of away wins in all group matches;

    lower disciplinary points total based only on yellow and red cards received by players and team officials in all group matches (red card = 3 points, yellow card = 1 point, expulsion for two yellow cards in one match = 3 points);

    higher club coefficient (see Annex D).

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2022, 10:55:01 pm »
It always intrigues me why we played in an amber kit against Ajax in 1966. I don't think we've ever not wore our home kit at Anfield before or since that game!

As for Wedneday, 2-0 to us I reckon (Mo 2)
https://museumofjerseys.com/2020/12/01/kit-for-the-day-liverpool-1966/
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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2022, 11:31:55 pm »
Depends which Ajax turn out, the greater or the lesser, but we should still hector these and get the points we need.
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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2022, 11:43:41 pm »
Wasn't there a mad UEFA. rule late 90's that home team wore away kit?

We played in a white away kit at home to Valencia in 98/99. Drew 0-0 and then went through on away goals in the return leg (wearing red).

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2022, 12:18:39 am »
Wasn't there a mad UEFA. rule late 90's that home team wore away kit?
That was the rule back then for all continental competitions btw, and it got changed in the late 90s.

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Offline oojason

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2022, 12:51:50 am »
It always intrigues me why we played in an amber kit against Ajax in 1966. I don't think we've ever not wore our home kit at Anfield before or since that game!

As for Wedneday, 2-0 to us I reckon (Mo 2)

I still find it all fascinating (sad, I know!) - us in yellow shirts at Anfield, and Ajax in an all white kit in the 1st leg. Cryuff's top comments about us after the 2nd leg etc. Both matches in heavy fog...


There is a little more on the two matches vs Ajax in '66 here (mainly videos, but a few pics and articles too):-

www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg18527973#msg18527973


And as usual the LFCInEurope website knocks it out of the park with their scrapbook page on the match - http://www.lfcineurope.com/6667-2.html

Quality OP too, jackh :thumbup

« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 11:31:30 am by oojason »
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Offline RogerTheRed

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2022, 07:04:39 am »
Come on Redmen!!
Thanks for the op and update on Ajax form. Think I have seen their CL performance has dismayed their fans. Their end was the best away end I have ever seen at Anfield. They are obvious dangers but did seem vulnerable defensively.
Would take the draw happily. Injury news seems to pick the team.
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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2022, 07:14:16 am »
A draw is fine . Let’s finish second and have a dead rubber last match as beating Napoli 4-0 is beyond any team right now with the the form they’re in. It will enable us to rest players .

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2022, 07:14:39 am »
Thanks Jack. I hope everyone has a nice time in the dam.

Huge game for us and Them. Please god let us score first.

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2022, 07:57:21 am »
A draw is fine . Let’s finish second and have a dead rubber last match as beating Napoli 4-0 is beyond any team right now with the the form they’re in. It will enable us to rest players .

Yes, this. Considering we just lost to one of the league's worst sides, on the basis they had one functional midfielder, I'd take a draw here and get out of this group.

Konate and Nunez to start please, the more young players we can get into our spine the better and right now Thiago is the essential midfielder. He must sleep in an oxygen tent and not touch his ears!
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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2022, 09:39:48 am »
Even if we win vs Ajax, I don't think we'll try to win the group.

Go for the win here, then rest players versus Napoli.

No incentive to do anything else.
It looks to me as if we have signed another 'average' player. I'll hold back my complete opinion until I see the lad play

Offline BigCDump

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2022, 09:48:16 am »
Agreed that a draw is better than a win. Focus Klopp's mind.

Then we can cheer on Chelsea and Spurs finishing behind Marseilles and Salzburg (it's close).
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Offline Fromola

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2022, 12:19:33 pm »
Even if we win vs Ajax, I don't think we'll try to win the group.

Go for the win here, then rest players versus Napoli.

No incentive to do anything else.

Be a big plus to be able to rest players before Spurs.

Having to go flat out with a depleted squad to get a result next week is not ideal, either for the games after it or for getting through. Be a struggle tomorrow though if Thiago isn't fit.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2022, 12:35:19 pm »
Thanks Jackh for the nice writeup.

I have no idea how this game will go. One minute we look like we are back to our best and then we play like we have no idea how to score.
I think Ajax will have a go at us and I think that will help as there will be more room for us especially in their half. The worst thing is that they score first and then sit back in their penalty area.

For me confidence is key so I would play the strongest team available.
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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2022, 07:11:30 pm »
Kostas Tsimikas and Calvin Ramsay, who were both pictured taking part in training, were not spotted boarding the plane to Amsterdam. There was also no sign of Thiago Alcantara, who missed training after being absent at the weekend with an ear infection.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-dealt-new-fitness-concern-25354489


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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2022, 07:32:12 pm »
You could sense Klopp's frustation in the press conference with the injuries we have.
Its playing a huge part in destroying our season.

I did sense some frustation with the medical team as well.

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2022, 07:34:11 pm »
Quote
@IanDoyleSport Klopp: Ibou trained properly the first time yesterday. He wasn't long out but he has a muscle thing. I'm not sure it makes sense for him to play 95 minutes. Naby and Ox the same. They aren't in the CL squad because everybody told me they wouldn't be ready (in time)

Said at the time it seemed strange they both weren't included in the squad, even if they missed most of the group. You could have at least put one of them in case.

Tomorrow would probably come a bit soon for Keita but let's hope he's not needed next week, although it would have been a good game to give him and Ox a start in  and rest others if we're through.



Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Fromola

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2022, 07:42:00 pm »
You could sense Klopp's frustation in the press conference with the injuries we have.
Its playing a huge part in destroying our season.

I did sense some frustation with the medical team as well.

Reading between the lines it seems he was pissed off that he could only use Trent and/or Henderson for 20 minutes. Plus having to be extra cautious with Nunez and then Thiago gets ill overnight.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2022, 07:48:25 pm »
Klopp was definitely frustrated about the minutes some players are being asked to play, or not play.

Personally I would ask his sports science and medical departments why the players are still getting fucking injured then.

Offline CS111

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2022, 08:34:19 pm »
Who knows

Offline SamLad

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2022, 12:26:13 am »
Klopp said today that Thiago is out for tomorrow.

Kostas Tsimikas and Calvin Ramsay, who were both pictured taking part in training, were not spotted boarding the plane to Amsterdam.


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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2022, 12:27:32 am »
Klopp said today that Thiago is out for tomorrow.

bloody hell

Offline SamLad

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Re: Ajax vs Liverpool (Champions League) - 20:00, Wednesday 26th October
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2022, 12:27:41 am »
from a decent guy, Ajax supporter ....

I hope we can make it interesting for Liverpool tomorrow. Ajax have a slim chance to make it through the group but we have to win by two goals and I'm thinking that is too tall a mountain to climb.

Unlike Liverpool (I watched the poor performance against Nottingham Forrest), we had a decent game. The club has settled on Brobbey as the striker so unless our manager completely loses his mind (which is indeed likely) he will start and Kudus will be on the bench.

I'm hoping that Blind sits this one out as well as he is showing his age and lack of quickness. He was moved to CB as he could not play FB at all. If he plays tomorrow rather than Wijndal at FB (he was injured the last time the teams met) and Bassey at CB all best are off and Liverpool will rampage down their right side all night long.

Anyway, good luck and let's hope for an interesting match!!!!