Author Topic: CL reforms based on coefficient ranking + 2-legged SFs to be scrapped?  (Read 6188 times)

Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Plans that would enable clubs to qualify for the Champions League based on historic performance and not their league position are back on the table, a year after the collapse of the European Super League.

Members of the European Club Association, an organisation which includes 10 Premier League sides, are to lobby Uefa to allow two teams to qualify for Europe’s elite club competition based in part on their coefficient, a metric calculated according to continental performance over the five previous seasons.

The Guardian understands that the proposals would see clubs who finish outside Champions League places in their domestic leagues, but qualify for the Europa League or win a domestic cup, compete for two places which would then be decided by coefficient ranking.

The proposals have been discussed within the Club Competitions Committee working group, which sees senior members of the ECA work on competition reforms with Uefa. They are also likely to be raised at the organisation’s General Assembly in Vienna this week.

Allowing clubs to qualify for the Champions League via club coefficient were part of original plans to expand the competition approved by Uefa last year. At the time they were seen as allowing big clubs to guarantee a place in the competition even if they failed to qualify on merit by league position.

Following the collapse of the European Super League and public concerns over preserving ‘sporting integrity’, Uefa said the reforms could be adjusted. Speaking earlier this month at the Financial Times Business of Football summit, the governing body’s president, Alexander Ceferin, said that while the means of qualification for two additional sides had not been confirmed, it would mean “more places for smaller and mainly mid-sized leagues”.

Any reversion to using a coefficient as basis for qualification, however, is likely to benefit clubs from bigger European Leagues, where there are more qualifying spots to start with and where teams tend to dominate the latter stages of tournaments. A club in a big league can even see its own coefficient boosted if other clubs in their division are successful in Europe.

The proposals will prove divisive. The European Leagues organisation which represents domestic competitions across the continent is against qualification by coefficient, as are a number of fan organisations. One leading fan group, Football Supporters’ Europe, this weekend launched an initiative called Win it on the Pitch that calls for the reform of EU law which, among other things, would ensure “qualification to Europe via domestic success”.

The issue remains a sore point within the Premier League, too. While the league’s biggest clubs are ECA members, including all six of the breakaway Super League sides, other clubs are increasingly vocal about competitive imbalance within the division, one they see as being furthered by Uefa reforms.

Last year’s plans for a Super League were led by the then-chairman of the ECA, Andrea Agnelli, who subsequently resigned from his role. Juventus, where Agnelli is chairperson, have also left the organisation, alongside fellow Super League clubs Real Madrid and Barcelona, with the chairman of the ECA now Paris Saint-Germain president Nasser Al-Khelaifi.

Sources close to the ECA confirmed that discussions with Uefa over Champions League reform remained ongoing, but insisted any final decision would be made by the governing body.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/27/divisive-champions-league-reform-proposals-back-on-the-table
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 07:37:26 am by ScouserAtHeart »
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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2022, 04:55:54 pm »
The Glazers would be happy.
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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2022, 05:07:14 pm »
Crap idea.

It's shit enough as it is
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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2022, 05:08:03 pm »
I thought this was already the case?

Quote
To ensure the new 2024/25 format will deliver the best for clubs, players and fans, UEFA based its design on extensive consultations with key stakeholders in the European football community. The reforms received unanimous backing on 19 April from both the European Club Association (ECA) Board and the UEFA Club Competitions Committee (composed of a majority of club representatives).


https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0268-12157d69ce2d-9f011c70f6fa-1000--new-format-for-champions-league-post2024-everything-you-need-to-know/

If those rules were in place for next season then currently the mancs & Roma would be the 2 teams to take advantage, though if Roma were to drop a place then I think Spurs would get it, would be great to see the piss boiling on here over that, ESL = bad though

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2022, 05:08:27 pm »
Time for a poll!

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2022, 05:15:32 pm »
Just give the 4th Champions League spot from each top country to the FA Cup, DFB-Pokal, Copa del Rey or Coppa Italia winners, if you like to make a smart reform. Cup Winners Cup used to be such a nice competition ...

Offline jonnypb

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2022, 08:00:58 pm »
It’s the only way Man Utd will get back in the CL anytime soon.

Crap idea.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2022, 08:06:59 pm »
Teams should have to be work hard and be successful in order to qualify for the following seasons 'Champions' League, not come sixth and be gifted a place because you had a good run three years ago.

Shite idea dreamed up by idiots who don't care about the game.

They've ruined the European Cup. They've ruined the UEFA Cup. They've ruined the UEFA cups replacement, and now they want to further ruin the European Cups replacement.

Now, they want to further reward failure in order to accommodate fading big names.

 :duh
« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 08:10:53 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2022, 08:07:01 pm »
Get rid of the absurd league format and ban the dropping into the Europa League from the group stages onwards.
Linudden.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2022, 08:12:13 pm »
Get rid of the absurd league format and ban the dropping into the Europa League from the group stages onwards.
Dropping down into the Europa League is yet another example of rewarding failure, and should never have been introduced.
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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2022, 08:15:04 pm »
Dropping down into the Europa League is yet another example of rewarding failure, and should never have been introduced.

The Europa should be about the smaller nations' champions and cup winners for me. In fact, if they continue to expand the CL like this I say ban the big five leagues from participating in the EL altogether since they'll take up such a share of the CL pie.

Right now even the EL starts being unattainable for quite large clubs just because they're from the wrong country. I fail to see what it brings to the table having additional big-league clubs that failed to crack the domestic top four muddying the waters there at this rate. If they want an even bigger share of the big ears, let the smaller leagues have a monopoly on the smaller ears, while at the same time being able to play in CL if they do well.
Linudden.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2022, 09:06:51 pm »
The Glazers would be happy.

Indeed. Although on form, got to imagine our owners are also on the inside pushing for this too.

Offline BoRed

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2022, 09:50:35 am »
The Guardian understands that the proposals would see clubs who finish outside Champions League places in their domestic leagues, but qualify for the Europa League or win a domestic cup, compete for two places which would then be decided by coefficient ranking.

Novel usage of the word "compete" there. We're talking about teams that have already competed for a place in the CL and failed, that will now get a place literally without competing, ahead of teams from other countries who have competed and qualified fair and square.

Offline -Willo-

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2022, 10:24:31 am »
I am not against new ideas for the Champions League to be honest, although this ones shit, the Premier League is too good now to have only 4 spots, whilst other countrys with shit teams get 1 / 2.

Newcastle are going to come in the next few years and make top 4 even harder for English clubs too, and we'd be daft to assume LFC will be one of the 4 spots forever, there will come a time when we miss out, and thats not good.


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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2022, 10:27:09 am »
It's like the worst aspects of the ESL (reserved spots for 'big' clubs that don't qualify on merit), but without the benefits (proper enforcement of FFP and restrictions on financial doping)

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2022, 10:34:54 am »
I thought this was already the case?

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0268-12157d69ce2d-9f011c70f6fa-1000--new-format-for-champions-league-post2024-everything-you-need-to-know/

If those rules were in place for next season then currently the mancs & Roma would be the 2 teams to take advantage, though if Roma were to drop a place then I think Spurs would get it, would be great to see the piss boiling on here over that, ESL = bad though

Not  quite - the new rules state 2 teams who have not already qualified for the "GROUP" stage - so countries like Scotland, whose top team do not qualify for the group stage but the qualification stage, would be able to count towards the 2.  Whereas this new proposal would rule them out as they had already "qualified" for a phase of the CL through winning their league, and it would be those who only qualified for the EL by finishing below the CL places in their  country.  In practice this might not make a massive difference, but there is a minor sdifference semantically

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2022, 11:50:36 am »
Not  quite - the new rules state 2 teams who have not already qualified for the "GROUP" stage - so countries like Scotland, whose top team do not qualify for the group stage but the qualification stage, would be able to count towards the 2.  Whereas this new proposal would rule them out as they had already "qualified" for a phase of the CL through winning their league, and it would be those who only qualified for the EL by finishing below the CL places in their  country.  In practice this might not make a massive difference, but there is a minor sdifference semantically

Yeah that's what I meant, the details were released last April around the same time as the ESL proposals but went under the radar, so at the moment it would be the mancs & Roma who qualify through co-efficient, 3rd place in the French league (Portugal could maybe overtake them if Benfica go further?  :shocked ) and one extra team through the champions path which this season was Malmo & Sheriff so a similar calibre side

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2022, 07:56:25 pm »
I am not against new ideas for the Champions League to be honest, although this ones shit, the Premier League is too good now to have only 4 spots, whilst other countrys with shit teams get 1 / 2.

Newcastle are going to come in the next few years and make top 4 even harder for English clubs too, and we'd be daft to assume LFC will be one of the 4 spots forever, there will come a time when we miss out, and thats not good.

What good teams the Premier League has now, apart from LFC, Man City and Chelsea? Lets be serious ...

Offline Lynx the saucy mynx

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2022, 09:54:16 pm »
It's like the worst aspects of the ESL (reserved spots for 'big' clubs that don't qualify on merit), but without the benefits (proper enforcement of FFP and restrictions on financial doping)

It's going to be very nauseating in a few weeks "The Super League, a year on" and how the media will talk about how it's exactly a year since football was saved.

Yet conveniently not talking about this stupid coefficient idea being the same thing.

Offline Jack_Bauer

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2022, 12:27:00 am »
It's going to be very nauseating in a few weeks "The Super League, a year on" and how the media will talk about how it's exactly a year since football was saved.

Yet conveniently not talking about this stupid coefficient idea being the same thing.
I for one can't wait for Gary Neville to go on Sky and pat himself on the back for saving football in 2021.

Offline -Willo-

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2022, 11:04:39 am »
What good teams the Premier League has now, apart from LFC, Man City and Chelsea? Lets be serious ...

Most good teams in the Prem are better than the good teams in other leagues.

West Ham more than deserved their victory over 2nd placed Sevilla the other week for example.


Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2022, 11:10:52 am »
Most good teams in the Prem are better than the good teams in other leagues.

West Ham more than deserved their victory over 2nd placed Sevilla the other week for example.

You mean, like the 7th placed club from La Liga beating the 2nd placed club from the Premier League in the Europa League final last season? Like I said, lets be serious. The Premier League has only 3 top teams, with one of them soon to be replaced by the newest oil club. Man Utd, Arsenal and Tottenham are not top teams. West Ham even less ...
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 11:12:38 am by PeterTheRed »

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2022, 11:13:22 am »
Crap idea.

It's shit enough as it is

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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2022, 11:17:12 am »
Dropping down into the Europa League is yet another example of rewarding failure, and should never have been introduced.

Also the point is the Champions League because so much of it is about how much money you make rather than the achievement of winning it has been allowed to take the gloss away from the old UEFA Cup competition, which was a just as good a trophy to win back then. The way the Europa League is so looked down on is another put off for modern football in my mind.
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Offline -Willo-

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2022, 11:19:30 am »
You mean, like the 7th placed club from La Liga beating the 2nd placed club from the Premier League in the Europa League final last season? Like I said, lets be serious. The Premier League has only 3 top teams, with one of them soon to be replaced by the newest oil club. Man Utd, Arsenal and Tottenham are not top teams. West Ham even less ...

Yes I agree on us having 3 top teams, but compared with the rest of the leagues I'd say France (1), Germany (1), Spain (1), Italy (0).

I take your point on Villareal last year but I still think the teams in this league compared to everywhere else are much better.

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2022, 11:24:18 am »
To be fair though the old UEFA Cup was good because you got a higher standard of team than we have no, precisely because the expanded CL has practically 'taken' the sort of teams who'd have qualified otherwise. So dropping into it from the CL probably does increase the stature of teams during the knockouts. The knockouts this year for example would have looked proper shite without the likes of Barca, Sevilla, Dortmund, Red Bull, Porto etc.
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Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2022, 11:25:48 am »
Yes I agree on us having 3 top teams, but compared with the rest of the leagues I'd say France (1), Germany (1), Spain (1), Italy (0).

I take your point on Villareal last year but I still think the teams in this league compared to everywhere else are much better.

The clubs in the Premier League have more money, due to the TV deal. Nothing else. And you are completely wrong about France, Germany, Spain and Italy. We have just suffered a loss against an Italian team at Anfield, something that no Premier League team has managed to do in more than a year.

The last thing the Champion League needs is more English clubs ...

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2022, 11:38:59 am »
The knockouts this year for example would have looked proper shite without the likes of Barca, Sevilla, Dortmund, Red Bull, Porto etc.

Would be nice for a "small" club to win it through so they can build to become big, same old crap winning it is terrible

Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2022, 03:37:43 pm »
Champions League places based on historical performance receive backing

Reforms include reserving two spots for previous performance
Plans to ensure competition remains ‘premium’ and ‘inclusive’

Plans to allow teams to qualify for the Champions League based on historical performance have received the backing of Europe’s top clubs as the best way to ensure the competition remains “premium” and “inclusive”. The changes are all but certain to be implemented by Uefa for the 2024-25 season.

The influential European Club Association has developed the system – as exclusively revealed by the Guardian – as part of a process of reforming Uefa’s competitions from 2024 and on Tuesday also gave its backing at its congress in Vienna to new rules regarding Financial Fair Play (FFP).

The reforms, originated in a working group of ECA members and Uefa officials, will include reserving two of the 36 Champions League group places for teams who would otherwise have played in the Europa League but have a high-ranking coefficient based on previous continental performance. These two places would be awarded in addition to those based on league performance, with a maximum of six clubs entering the Champions League from any one national association.

Speaking at the congress the ECA vice-president, Aki Riihilahti, said he was “very happy” with the proposals, which will be taken on by Uefa. More countries than ever will be guaranteed group-stage places across Uefa’s three men’s club competitions.

“When we’re talking about the European performance spots, we added domestic performance because you have to look at the whole picture,” said Riihilahti, who is the CEO of HJK Helsinki and sat on the working group. “How do we have quality premium competitions which are also inclusive? When we add the domestic performance [that means] the next best is there. There’s no leapfrogging. It’s fair, it adds value, and overall when you look at the total picture it makes sense. As a smaller country’s champion, I was very happy with the whole thing.”

Also agreed in principle are new FFP rules which would see clubs competing in European football adhere to an annual cap on the money they can spend on transfers and wages. That figure is understood to be 70% of annual revenue, with the potential for fines or docked points should the level be exceeded.
The previous method of calculation for FFP looked retrospectively at a club’s spending and set a limit on the money any club could lose. Again, these rules are to be finalised by Uefa.

The two-day meeting in Vienna showed a united front among the 247 men’s clubs who are members, with plans also announced to create a membership structure for women’s clubs. ECA members committed an initial €1m to assist Ukrainian refugees.

Three clubs missing from the list are the remaining European Super League-supporting clubs, Juventus, Barcelona and Real Madrid. This was the first in-person gathering of the ECA since the attempted launch of the ESL last year, and the ECA’s new chairman, Nasser al-Khelaifi of Paris St-Germain, said he did not expect a recurrence of any such breakaway.

“Today we are proving that there is a big potential in the Uefa club competitions and we don’t need another system,” Khelaifi said. “Everyone is against it, from the fans and the media to the clubs – big and small – and [the breakaway clubs] are three only. The strange thing is that they are now enjoying playing in Uefa competitions; they are playing in the best competition. There is no potential they can do something like [revive the Super League]: we are united. In the ECA we found our unity in 2021.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/29/champions-league-places-based-on-historical-performance-receive-backing
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Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2022, 04:49:29 pm »
Champions League places based on historical performance receive backing

Reforms include reserving two spots for previous performance
Plans to ensure competition remains ‘premium’ and ‘inclusive’

Plans to allow teams to qualify for the Champions League based on historical performance have received the backing of Europe’s top clubs as the best way to ensure the competition remains “premium” and “inclusive”. The changes are all but certain to be implemented by Uefa for the 2024-25 season.

The influential European Club Association has developed the system – as exclusively revealed by the Guardian – as part of a process of reforming Uefa’s competitions from 2024 and on Tuesday also gave its backing at its congress in Vienna to new rules regarding Financial Fair Play (FFP).

The reforms, originated in a working group of ECA members and Uefa officials, will include reserving two of the 36 Champions League group places for teams who would otherwise have played in the Europa League but have a high-ranking coefficient based on previous continental performance. These two places would be awarded in addition to those based on league performance, with a maximum of six clubs entering the Champions League from any one national association.

Speaking at the congress the ECA vice-president, Aki Riihilahti, said he was “very happy” with the proposals, which will be taken on by Uefa. More countries than ever will be guaranteed group-stage places across Uefa’s three men’s club competitions.

“When we’re talking about the European performance spots, we added domestic performance because you have to look at the whole picture,” said Riihilahti, who is the CEO of HJK Helsinki and sat on the working group. “How do we have quality premium competitions which are also inclusive? When we add the domestic performance [that means] the next best is there. There’s no leapfrogging. It’s fair, it adds value, and overall when you look at the total picture it makes sense. As a smaller country’s champion, I was very happy with the whole thing.”

Also agreed in principle are new FFP rules which would see clubs competing in European football adhere to an annual cap on the money they can spend on transfers and wages. That figure is understood to be 70% of annual revenue, with the potential for fines or docked points should the level be exceeded.
The previous method of calculation for FFP looked retrospectively at a club’s spending and set a limit on the money any club could lose. Again, these rules are to be finalised by Uefa.

The two-day meeting in Vienna showed a united front among the 247 men’s clubs who are members, with plans also announced to create a membership structure for women’s clubs. ECA members committed an initial €1m to assist Ukrainian refugees.

Three clubs missing from the list are the remaining European Super League-supporting clubs, Juventus, Barcelona and Real Madrid. This was the first in-person gathering of the ECA since the attempted launch of the ESL last year, and the ECA’s new chairman, Nasser al-Khelaifi of Paris St-Germain, said he did not expect a recurrence of any such breakaway.

“Today we are proving that there is a big potential in the Uefa club competitions and we don’t need another system,” Khelaifi said. “Everyone is against it, from the fans and the media to the clubs – big and small – and [the breakaway clubs] are three only. The strange thing is that they are now enjoying playing in Uefa competitions; they are playing in the best competition. There is no potential they can do something like [revive the Super League]: we are united. In the ECA we found our unity in 2021.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/29/champions-league-places-based-on-historical-performance-receive-backing

So, you can have 6 clubs from England in the Champions League. A nice way of dressing the Super League as the "reformed" Champions League :lmao

Offline swoopy

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2022, 04:54:58 pm »
So shit. No club should be automatically awarded entry to any cup competition based on their history. You should get in based on current performance.

Offline 4pool

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2022, 05:07:38 pm »
There should be some sort of penalty for using "historical" rankings to get into the CL.

A 50% penalty of your high-ranking coefficient based on previous continental performance points.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline ScottScott

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2022, 05:08:59 pm »
Another shite decision by UEFA and the ECA. 1st the changes to the CL and now this. Absolutely ruining what was good about it all

Offline BoRed

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2022, 05:17:05 pm »
There should be some sort of penalty for using "historical" rankings to get into the CL.

A 50% penalty of your high-ranking coefficient based on previous continental performance points.

How are these clubs ever going to drop down the ranking if they're guaranteed ten CL games every season? And their coefficient gets boosted further by the successes of other teams from the same league. It's effectively a super league without relegation.

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2022, 05:28:38 pm »
Something of a deal with the devil when it comes to TV money. We love it because it lets us buy the players and pay them to stay, hate it when it forces clubs to look at stupid bullshit like this to keep the gravy train going.

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2022, 05:42:02 pm »
Fuck this.  Yet another staging post on football’s inexorable roll from a chaotic game where anything is possible, to one where certain profitable things happen within tightly-controlled parameters.

Big windfall for Chelsea as well.  Even if they are pitched into new, more realistic circumstances they’ll still be qualifying for the CL for the rest of this decade on coefficient alone.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 06:17:04 pm by Iska »

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2022, 05:42:26 pm »
How are these clubs ever going to drop down the ranking if they're guaranteed ten CL games every season? And their coefficient gets boosted further by the successes of other teams from the same league. It's effectively a super league without relegation.

To be honest, it is. Only it is run by Nasser al-Khelaifi, instead of Florentino Perez. I don't know what is worse ...

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2022, 06:01:29 pm »
"Bring on yer Coefficient Rankings,
Bring on yer Premiums by the score
and well fake fair finance too and they'll sell our culture too
Cos Football is the thing that UEFA whore"



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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2022, 07:47:25 pm »
I am not against new ideas for the Champions League to be honest, although this ones shit, the Premier League is too good now to have only 4 spots, whilst other countrys with shit teams get 1 / 2.

Newcastle are going to come in the next few years and make top 4 even harder for English clubs too, and we'd be daft to assume LFC will be one of the 4 spots forever, there will come a time when we miss out, and thats not good.



So like a super league.
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Offline BoRed

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Re: Clubs propose Champions League reforms based on coefficient ranking
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2022, 11:19:04 am »
Quote
By stealth rather than in one swoop, the European Super League has arrived

Jonathan Wilson

As this week’s semi-finals lineup shows, the Champions League is no longer a fair competition but in the grip of a few franchises

The two best teams in Europe, the most successful club in the history of the competition, a gritty outsider – in some ways the lineup for this week’s Champions League semi-finals is perfect. Each offers in addition an intriguing subplot: Pep Guardiola fighting the curse of overthought, Jürgen Klopp and Liverpool chasing an implausible quadruple, Luka Modric and Karim Benzema raging against the dying of the light, the frankly hilarious prospect of Unai Emery returning to Paris for the final and making a point to Paris Saint-Germain, a club that never took him seriously (perhaps he could have a three-day party to celebrate and invite Neymar along to cut the cake as the Brazilian had him do during his 26th-birthday celebrations).

And yet, and yet … the four clubs come from only two countries and those two countries are England and Spain, who have between them produced 62.5% of all semi-finalists over the past two decades.

Even the outsiders are Villarreal. Theirs may be a remarkable story, a team made up almost entirely of Tottenham flops and targets hailing from a town with a population, as surely everybody knows by now, of only 50,000, who have overcome the might of Juventus and Bayern Munich thanks to the tactical ministrations of a manager who was essentially written off by Arsenal because his Vs sound a bit like Bs – but they come from La Liga. The Anglo-Spanish hegemony goes on.

There are no outsiders any more. What other giant-killers have there been recently? Atalanta – a small club who have performed miracles given their budget, but a team from Serie A. Ajax – the biggest club in the Netherlands. Tottenham – a wealthy club from the Premier League with an enormous modern stadium in London who are funded by a tax exile. RB Leipzig – who come no closer to a fairy story than Red Bull having used Sleeping Beauty in an advertising campaign; they may obey the letter of the Bundesliga’s 50+1 ownership legislation but they have obliterated its spirit.

Of the 80 semi-finalists over the past 20 years, 26 have been from Spain and 24 from England. Portugal has provided one, the Netherlands two, with the rest coming from Germany, Italy and France. This is not a pan-European competition any more, it is a global tournament that has de facto franchises in a tiny handful of western European nations.

Uefa’s decision to establish the Europa Conference League is at least an acknowledgement of that, a competition that offers six high(ish)-profile group games to the champions of places such as Norway, Slovenia and Israel, plus a number of other mid-ranking sides otherwise shut out of European competition. It threw up a diverse spread of quarter-finalists – from seven different countries – but it is far too little, far too late.

Perhaps nobody cares; perhaps even to think that football should be more inclusive, to yearn for Reims and Nottingham Forest, Malmö and Steaua Bucharest, is to be hopelessly nostalgic. The protests that surrounded the collapse of the proposed European Super League a year ago hinted at a desire for another world, for a way of doing things that wasn’t just about commerce, but it was a moment that vanished on the wind.

There has been no fan protest against the takeover of Newcastle by the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia; indeed a vocal minority have attacked those who have wondered how healthy it is for this venerable community institution to be sold off to a body representing a state accused of a catalogue of human rights abuses.

Now that Chelsea fans have been forced by sanctions to contemplate their ownership, the main question seems to be which billionaire who might take over will spend the most money. Are Arsenal fans in any way concerned that they bear on their team’s sleeves an imprecation to “Visit Rwanda”, whose president, Paul Kagame, has been accused, among a litany of allegations, of assassinating political opponents?

This is the tragedy of modern English football. It has never been so successful. It has never been watched by so many people, either in the stadiums or on television around the globe. It has never generated so much revenue. Yet still everybody is holding out for a bigger sugar daddy, wondering which billionaire or oligarch or sovereign wealth fund or hedge fund might buy them even more glitzy players. This is the story of modern Britain: ask not the source of the money, just how much of it there is.

What were those protests about? If they were protesting against a system that perpetuates the dominance of the elite, it’s already here. In August 2016, in the interregnum between the suspension of Michel Platini and the election of Aleksander Ceferin as Uefa president, a deal was driven through by Bayern’s Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and Juventus’s Andrea Agnelli that has meant that since 2018, 30% of broadcast revenues from the Champions League are distributed to the 32 sides in the group stage based on performances in Uefa competition over the past 10 years. Or to contextualise that, if West Ham qualify for next season’s Champions League by winning the Europa League, they will receive 4% of what Chelsea get.

And still this stitch-up isn’t enough. Still the existing elite are looking to fortify their own positions, demanding that two places form the revised 36-team group stage to come into effect from 2024 be allocated according to coefficient. They are already incredibly rich. They already have huge established fanbases. They already have a system stacked in their favour, and still they want another safety net.

It means clubs can be as badly run as Manchester United and Juventus have been for the past decade and remain at the highest table. It may have a different name. It may disguise its intentions. It may be come by creeping increment rather than in one clumsy swoop, but the Super League is here.

Football as corporate entertainment product thrives, and is undeniably good to watch, the quality and drama in the latter stages of the Champions League unprecedentedly high. But football as sport, football as an expression of something beautiful in the human soul, as the most democratic of sports, open to all, has been dying for years. All we are doing now is deciding what the sarcophagus will look like.

It's a bit of a stretch to suggest Villarreal making the semis is somehow proof that the Super League is already in place, but the main point of the article is still spot on. If the new rules were already in place, Man Utd would be playing Champions League next season, which can't possibly be right.